Out of Rosenheim is a blooming machine. Nice green foliage. It has grown like mad and it finally turned red. It started out as watermelon color.

Blooms are on the small side. But, the plant is very clean.

It is in a planter box 5x5 and filling it quickly.

Thank you all for taking the time to comment. As always your experiences are both interesting and informative.

I certainly agree that Kordes roses come in a wide and sometimes unpredictable variety and that climate is an important factor in growth form. I am reminded here that several newer varieties perform well in my garden, such as the the Kolorscapes (Kardinal & Opal), Ruby Ice and Fiji. These have been growing for several years without showing any garden dominance tendencies.

As for the now, First Crush has been cut to the ground, just waiting for cooler weather to dig it up. Summer Romance and Dark Desire may get a reprieve and relocation, like Lilyfinch, I hate to remove a healthy plant without giving it a couple of seasons. Maybe I will try SR on an obelisk. In fact, that might work for Lavender Veranda and Tupelo Honey as well. Thank you to Cori Ann for that idea.

You guys are great and so generous with your time and expertise. I always find encouragement here.

Deborah,

I am curious how Westerland blooms and repeats for you. Is it more a spring/fall only bloomer, or does it do well in summer, too? My Westerland is enormous and healthy, but decidedly bloom shy. I have seen spectacular Westerland plants in other parts of the world, but mostly places with milder summers.

Wonderful Deborah! This doesn't really show the blooms since mine are mostly in between bloom cycles now, but here's an example of how I'm training Madame Anisette, Summer Romance and First Crush laterally with trellises and obelisks along a stone wall.

First Crush has a couple blooms now, so here's some photos even though I know you're getting rid of First Crush. My other Kordes are all budding so I'm expecting a nice fall flush from all of them.

I think obelisks work great even with classic hybrid teas. At least here they do. Here's an example of Barbra Streisand and Memorial Day. Among other things.

Deborah,

I really like this thread. I posted a question of my own on Tupelo Honey so as not to take distract from your thread. I have no idea how we can know what to expect from these roses I love em but would really love to know their growth habits. When I first planted Lions Fairy Tale, I went by the stated size and placed it in the front of a bed. In the first year she went 5ft up. Oh my she was a big one for here. Except for my Austins roses did not grow that way for me. It has been a challenge ever since.

Here its hard to tell whether our newer Kordes roses will bloom well or not because of rose midge... Like our Plum Perfect only bloomed once & that was back in June. Our two Fiji roses have not bloomed at all & one was planted last year...Won't grow nor bloom...

Once they finally start growing I'll tell you if they sprawl or not...lol

Kentuckyrose, you have a beautiful garden! Do you mind me asking how old your Beverly is? I've been moving or giving away a lot of my huge Kordes but the saving grace for Beverly was that I thought that she was going to be smaller than the rest!

BenT, my Westerland blooms most heavily in the spring with sporadic blooming through summer and fall. This summer it is being crowded by a Canna that made it through our mild winter and has just kept growing and growing.

Cori Ann, thank you for the photographs of your lovely First Crush and the creative vertical gardening. I have bookmarked it for future reference. As I recall your FC is grown in full sun and hot, dry sun at that, correct? Mine had a surprising number of blooms, in a shaded location, but most were damaged by rain or high humidity. Maybe I should move it to full sun, if I haven't killed it (ha!) by cutting it to the ground.

Patty W., I agree appropriate placement is difficult to judge. I planted Dark Desire in front of Papi Delbard this spring and needless to say it has outpaced Papi and must be relocated, or more likely shovel pruned as it is not an attractive shrub and the flowers fry in the sun. Maybe I will switch it with First Crush...

Wow! Kentuckyrose, I thought I had some big Kordes yours are huge. How old are they?

Lavenderlace and Deborah, I got that Beverly in 2013 and Poseidon in 2015. Both were purchased from Palatine. Huge bushes. Beverly is tall and wide. Poseidon tall and more vaselike in shape. This Beverly was the one that I posted ?RRD? In early July and it wasn't.

Good grief, I already need to move Savannah and it looks like Beverly needs to move too. She is already looking quite large.

What to do with Out of Rosenheim? It is healthy, blooms a lot and is getting huge. But, it just doesn't do a thing for me. But how do you get rid of a super healthy rose?

Try to find it a new home.

Great post! I planted Florentina and Quicksilver this year and both of them have put out long canes with a few blooms. I was really surprised at all of the growth for first year climbers. I think I fertilized them twice. I purchased both of them along with Out of Roseheim, from Palatine. My Out of Roseheim rose was also planted this year, but I moved it and so it's around 3 feet tall. I love the bright red blooms. I don't mind the long branches. As long as the plant is healthy and disease resistant, oh, and hardy for our zone 5 winters, I'm happy. I love Kordes roses and have a good number of their climbers, some multiples of: Amadeus (2x), Laguna (3x), Rosarium Uetersen (2x), Rosanna, Pomponella (3x) (not classified a climber, but can be grown as a short one), Florentina and Quicksilver.

I've tried three Kordes roses so far, and none of them have been very happy with my conditions. First Crush bull nosed every bloom and was removed. Savannah in its second year nearly died with some late frosts and since has grown about four inches, produced only a couple of pretty fragrant blooms. Earth Angel in its first year had some strange branch dieback and hasn't grown, but produced one very fragrant bloom. I'm hesitant to try more.

I like kordes because here in Florida's summer they have leaves at least .most of my HTs are bare now after chilli thrips and thunder storms and hurricane Irma . Kordes doesnt bloom much for me though in intense heat .

kentucky_rose,

I think your Kordes bushes have almost ideal growth. They may be very big, but they are bushy, uniform and obviously healthy. I bet the produce some nice flushes of blooms. I'm encouraged, as I just bought Poseidon myself.

BenT, I cut these today before I sprayed.

I had no hybrid teas at all when I went on the Kordes buying spree this spring. I was looking forward to having blooms to cut for the house, on plants which could be grown no-spray. I have to say that as these new roses started to blast skyward I didn't know quite what to do with them! I have followed Chris from Newflora's advice to cut off the errant canes and generally shape the plant right from the start.

Beverly is the star. Here in SE Virginia 8A she is producing a remarkable number of large perfect blooms. I have plants in two different gardens (same city) and both have bloomed well and lost only a few lower leaves to blackspot. I believe Beverly wants to be 4 to 6 feet here and I think I'll let her.

Savannah is also a great cut flower and wonderfully fragrant. Mine is in a pot and grew quickly and bloomed eagerly. Foliage is never perfectly clean but the vigor of the plant makes up for it. Seems a somewhat erratic grower but is producing blooms at all levels of the plant. Looking forward to seeing her grow.

Pink Enchantment sulked until I put her in the ground. The color is subtle but there's nothing delicate about her thick petals. Lasts well in a vase and looks good with every other color. She's growing on me!

Dark Desire is a gawky bush which I put on a trellis. I absolutely love the color; others can smell a fragrance but I can't. Doing extremely well in the heat and good foliage health. Reds like that are very rare here.

South Africa needs time; less than knee-high and has only produced a few blooms. LOVE the color and will give it a couple years. I think South Africa is really special. Lesser yellows fade to almost white in our heat.

Eliza is the smallest plant, has not bloomed and is still in a pot. The foliage is gorgeous. Hope the blooms are worth waiting for-- when they finally appear!

I only picked one shrub, Lemon Fizz. It's clearly a winner, nice bushy little plant and beautiful intense yellow blooms and lots of them.

Plum Perfect is an absolutely wonderful color; it's in a shrub border with Carefree Beauty, Thomas Affleck and Julia Child. Looks like PP is going to be able to keep up with these other stellar performers.

All these were started this spring from own-root one gallon plants so they still have a lot of growing and developing to do. I plan to give the whole bunch a good 3 years in my garden. I'm so grateful there are this many hybrid teas that I can grow here without spraying. That means everything to me.

I planted a couple Quicksilver this year. I'll qualify my comments with the point that I'm with you on the dislike of "thick glossy leaves and thick, fabric like petals", so often seen on Kordes roses.

Mine are grafted on Multiflora. They produced, thick, quickly growing canes with little lateral growth, with a single cluster of large, beautifully colored, perfectly shaped blooms at the ends. Too thickly clustered for such large blooms, disproportionate, to my eye. It reminded me of a floribunda candelabra, only just a single candelabra with no surrounding bush, if that makes sense. I didn't notice any fragrance, The blooms were long lasting and would probably have done nicely in a vase.

The glossy leaves are very large, and like the blooms they seem disproportionate, a bit to few and awkwardly arranged. The foliage did remain remarkably clean without spray in an otherwise black-spot prone garden.

If you could get to the canes before they harden off, perhaps horizontal training would produce more laterals thus encouraging more bloom. Unfortunately I'd chosen Quicksilver based on the "Arbor-rose" marketing (intended for small structures) and my structure doesn't have the room to let these spread out.

So, I was disappointed; I'd envisioned lush foliage twining around my structure, covered with gracefully lilting blooms. IMO, Quicksilver is coarse and clunky. But to each his own :) My DH, who doesn't often express strong rose preferences, commented that they were his favorite new rose. He especially admires the color.

I do not know what is wrong with my poor Beverly we have been fighting powdery mildew almost since she was planted. I cut her way back yesterday taking off all the new canes.

Those are the ones that look like they had mildew on them . They seemed mildewy underneath and curled leaves on the new growth.

I have only had 2 blooms and she is in prime location best soil best light .

I guess next year I'll need to be much more proactive on the powdery mildew. I just assumed that these Kordes roses we're going to be much less prone to mildew.

Kristine, my whole rose garden has had a mild case of powdery mildew most of this season. Beverly, South Africa, Grande Amore more so than the other roses, but the other roses do have it. I am assuming it is the season this year. But it does help to know that you are experiencing similar conditions as I am in Kentucky.

My Beverly is a largish bush, but there are few flowers and I'm certainly not wowed by them.

Carol

Same here Carol. Mine have more flowers now than they've had all year but not wowing me at all either. They are so bright that they look fake. I thought that she had a great reputation so I've been extra patient, not one of my virtues!

Deborah, I gave away a few Earth Angels because they were huge compared to the size of the blooms, which did look like miniature Austins to me. Summer Romance has barely bloomed but is huge.

First Crush has been better though I did throw away a half dozen because they were covered in spider mites. I probably over-reacted but they just weren't special enough here. The remaining ones have performed fine, both in sandy soil and clay.

Savannahs are giant so had to move them but they dealt with it OK in high heat. This one has the best fragrance to me. In the spring, the blooms were beautiful, but in the summer, they went back to being hard and flat.

Interesting discussion about Beverly. They have a slew of them at my nearest Lowe's fot $12.95 and I've been thinking about picking one (or more) up when they're marked down. The bloom and fragrance was amazing, but it's hard to get a feel for their BSiness or shape from a small plant.

Given their extremely good health and beauty of the blooms I've seen so far I am going to give Madam A and Earth Angel a few years to prove their worth. Midge ruined my fall flush which looked like it was shaping up to be awesome, so spring will be very telling.

All of my own root Kordes planted 2016 and 2017 are no bigger than the size range listed on the old New Flora site.

I still use the archived version of the site to look up roses I’m interested in.

https://web.archive.org/web/20161008231756/http://newflora.com/

I’ve noticed that Kordes seems to get huge on multifora root stock so I’ve avoided it. I don’t have room in my tiny yard and the own roots have stayed at the expected size.

I have quick silver and florentina from the arbor rose collection and the 5-6 ft canes have been flexible enough to train on an obelisk.
I also have summer romance 4x4 ft and first crush 3x3 ft and lavender veranda 3x2 from Lowe’s.

Poseidon 3x2

Plum perfect 2.5x2

Dark desire 4x4

Zaide 4.5x2

Queen of hearts 2x1

I have more that are still undersized less established plants

I have never heard of QlHs. Thanks for a new one to research.

Modestgoddess, thank you for posting the link to the old New Flora site. After reviewing some information on the site, I realized that my excessive growers (Summer Romance, First Crush, Tupelo Honey and Dark Desire) were all from Lowe's and perhaps grafted, where the less exuberant (Soul Sister, Sunny Skies, South Africa) were own root from Chamblee's. Hmm...

Ratdogheads, I agree with your description of the bloom form on Quicksilver, and I think Plum Perfect blooms are similar in form. Both are, well, perfect. I guess a little too perfect for my taste. Today as I was trying to bring some order to the chaos I noticed that Niles Cochet had decided to send a couple shoots up through Quicksilver's obelisk. Now that I like!

I have to say I love my Kordes roses! Being in Z5 I appreciate their vigor, and I'm ok with the glossy leaves, but to each his own :). I'm wondering if pruning them some would help you guys in the warmer areas get more blooms and a more controlled shrub. Chris from Newflora had some good pruning posts, and some old posts from Olga were good. Also Ken had suggested pinching off that top bud to encourage buds to break all up and down the cane rather than just at the top.

Hummmm, multiflora, that could be the answer. All my Kordes are on multiflora and are beasts. But, Rock and Roll is also on the same rootstock and it is still small. Maybe the Kordes/multiflora is a combination that creates ginormous growth.

I've been chopping Savannah's head off all year and they're still 8 X 6 own-root again! I'm starting to wonder if they were more than one cutting to begin with and each one is actually two or three? I've moved most of them and are going to use them as climbers and just let them be.

I think most modern Kordes roses are too vigorous for multiflora.

If you’re interested in Queen of hearts floribunda Roses unlimited is the only place selling it in the USA. Planted this year and it has consistently had 1 or 2 blooms on it all summer even in July 100 degrees heat index.

Just wanted to mention Beverly goes quickly for me on the bush .. but if you cut it for the vase it is amazing! If you aren't satisfied with it in the garden give a couple in the vase a try!

Mine does get some blackspot

ModestGoddess - good heavens, how do you keep your Poseidon at no more than 3 feet in zone 7? Mine is a monster at 6' or more in zone 5 and it sulks and doesn't want to bloom at anything less than this height. Come to think of it though, it is a grafted one and I'm starting to wonder if grafted Kordes roses are combining two strengths together for a huge bush. Many Kordes roses do just fine on their own roots and it might be the way to rein in the height a little. Still, virtually all my grafted roses in zone 5 go own root after a couple of years so it's not long-term that it's too big of a rose if being grafted is the reason.

My overall response to the question is rather like Dingo's though, as far as zone 5 goes. If getting too big and bushy is a problem, may I have such "problems" with all my roses! Given that half or more of my HT and floris are no more than knee high here as we start into fall, I'd love to trade a big bush for any and all of them. Even if I still would only get a few flowers on each, I'd take a few flowers on a healthy Kordes bush over a few flowers on a knee high stick any day.

YMMV in warmer zones of course, but my reaction to Kordes roses is "bring it on"!

Cynthia

Have to say it again For the most part I love my Kordes roses. All of mine are own root. Most have wonderful vigor and flower power for my zone. I'm lovin it. They are not all perfect but hey what is.

Niles Cochet has found a use for Quicksilver - gracefully leaning in.

I moved Savannah, let's just say she doesn't look good. I sure hope I didn't kill her.

The thing I don’t like about Quicksilver is that the blooms fry here. I love it, but it can’t take the sun. Yes, it wants to grow very tall, too. Lisa

Kristine, some of the Savannahs I moved earlier this year in 100 degree heat totally defoliated and looked like they died. But we cut a lot of roots and I think that shocked them. But they came right back after what looked like sure death!

The ones I moved last week didn't even lose their leaves so she's a tough one.

I just moved a couple of Beverlys from prime spots to far away. I hope they can deal with it as well

LL, why did you move the Beverlys? I'm still considering her from Home Depot, but worry about another BSy monster.

For me, she just wasn't that exciting. The blooms weren't that pretty in the summer, the color was kind of harsh, and I didn't care for the fragrance.

When Sara Ann, who grows lots of beautiful flowers, said that she had less petals in the summer for her also, I figured I had no chance in my heat!

BS wasn't a problem and they weren't ridiculously huge like Savannah and Earth Angel, but just didn't quite deserve the special spots here.

I think that she has quite a good reputation though so that's why I didn't give them away. Yet!

Well, unless they mark them down alot, I think I'll wait. I have enough hassle repotting those I'm overwintering. Thank you, again.

Oh VV, I hope I didn't discourage you! Our climates and soil are very different so she could be a star for you!

And Cori Ann has dry heat instead instead of my humidity and she has a lot doing great for her that the nurseries actually pulled here. So you never know!

Thanks Lavender , that is very encouraging . I hope my Savannah rallies. .

That is so true, LL. I'm just leery of what gets ordered at the local HD. I'm SURE they pay no mind to what might do well here. I am heartened by the recovery and growth I'm observing on my prior wimpy First Crush. Soil really affects colour, I find, but I'm not experienced enough to judge the effect on scent.

I think First Crush likes the heat. I have a friend in Tampa that picked hers up at Lowe's and it has been in almost constant bloom for her and no BS

Kristin, I couldn't agree more. We've had a relatively cool summer since I transplanted her and it's only since it became hot again that she's taken off and started budding out. Of course, she could have just been getting over the shock, but I think it's the heat. I't still like summer over here so I'm looking forward to those blooms. She was one of the least affected by midge, but during the cool spell she just sat there.

70 here today. Perfect day to plant Darcy Bussel. Go Darcy Go