Good question. I have wondered about a similar thing - using a steam juicer to make tomato juice with. But all my reading on that issue says no as it leaves most of the pulp in the fruit and all you get is tomato flavored water. So if what I have read is correct then your approach to sauce making should work fine I think. But no guarantees. ;-)

But there are a couple of alternative approaches available that are proven to work and may well be easier.

One is to roast the tomatoes in halves in the oven first. That gets rids of much of the water too and gives the sauce a rich roasted flavor.

The second one that is more common I think is to core and freeze the tomatoes first. Then let them thaw in a collender when ready to make sauce. The freezing ruptures the cells releasing most of the water and as they thaw most of it drains right out.

If you decide to go with the steam juicer please come back and let us know how it works.

Dave

The steam juicer should do the same thing with the tomatoes--rupture the cells. My concern is would it be unsafe to can the sauce? As long as I cook it per the instructions in the ball book after steaming it, acidify the jars and process the jars for 40 minutes would that still be safe?

I make applesauce using the steamer, but I don't can that. I like the way the apples cook quickly and I can control how much of the juice to add back in to the cooked fruit, depending on how thick I'd like it. I'd love to find another use for my steam juicer!

So as long as it sounds safe, I think I'll give it a go and will report back with how it works.

Thanks, Dave!

I see 'core and freeze' quite often. What happens if one does not core? I don't need to know. Just curious.

Albert - I don't think coring must be done before freezing but doing it after they thaw would make a terrible mess and be a PITA because the tomatoes are pretty soft and mushy after thawing.

So I started with 30 # tomatoes--several different varieties. After steaming them for 40 minutes I ended up with 28 cups of clear "juice" which I set aside, just in case the sauce was too thick.

I then put the tomatoes through the strainer, cooked for about an hour and a half, then processed the sauce (properly acidified) for 40 minutes. I ended up with 6 1/2 quarts of sauce--still thin, but the color is great.

Not sure if this was more work than how I canned sauce last year, but I didn't have to babysit the sauce as it was reducing for as much time. I started around 9 this morning and pulled the jars out of the canner at 2 this afternoon, so it was still fairly time-consuming, but I'm happy with the results.

I think the rest of my tomatoes will be crushed though--that's the quickest way I've tried. But I do have all the tomato "juice" left over, and it's sitting in the fridge until I decide if I want to do something with it. It's actually pretty flavorful. Any ideas?

Glad to hear the sauce turned out well.

I can the tomato water and use it for soup stock. Any recipe that calls for stock you can use it as all or part. Plus when the power goes out and the well won't work I have some canned flavored water to drink or cook with. ;)

Dave

Thanks, Dave. Do you have to acidify the tomato water? I already put it in ziplock bags in the freezer, but next time I'd prefer to can it if possible.

How do you can tomato water? And which steam juicer are you using?

Yes acidify it. You pressure can it like any other broth/stock - 20 minutes for pints and 25 min for quarts at weight for your altitude.

Dave

jens, Dave answered your first question. To answer the second, I have a Norpro steam juicer.

Thanks again, Dave. I haven't tackled the pressure canning yet...so I guess freezing the tomato water was my only option.

Thanks Sherm for the idea to use the steam juicer to make tomato sauce! I did that tonight and I think it works really well. I had a bunch of small tomatoes that would have been a pain to blanch and peel and I ended up with a sauce that is very nice. I would like to say though, that I don't think you would have to pressure can the "water" that comes from them. If you can water bath tomato juice, which contains pulp, the thin liquid should be no different. Properly acidified as Dave said, of course, and processed for 40 minutes for quarts.

I really thought the sauce turned out well also. Did you end up adding any of the water back to the sauce, when you were cooking it?

No, I thought the sauce was just right, especially since I was going to add some other liquids. I made Chunky Basil Pasta sauce from the Complete Book of Small-Batch Preserving, I've made it many times before. I did peel a few large tomatoes and add them with the other ingredients before cooking it some more. I canned the 7 cups of tomato water along with the sauce-same amount of processing time.

I just received my steam juicer today. Yay! Thanks for this idea - I'm super excited about it!

I put 10 lbs of tomatoes in and I've already gotten 4 qts of water out. How do you know when they are dry enough to run through the food mill?

Also, both of you - leahikesgardens and shermthewerm - I'm assuming you set aside the water, made the sauce, and then reheated the tomato water before putting it in jars and processing? Or did you siphon it directly into the jars?

I let the water drain into a large pot while I was steaming the tomatoes because I was afraid it would boil over (I used a variety of tomatoes and many were giant slicers--so very juicy). After about 45 minutes of steaming, I thought the tomatoes were soft enough to run through the food mill. I did end up adding about 4 cups of the water back to the strained tomato puree while I was cooking the sauce because I didn't want the it to be too thick (per Dave's advice).

I didn't can the tomato water because I wasn't sure how--I froze it instead. Personally, I think siphoning directly into jars sounds difficult and I'd probably make a huge mess and end up burning myself in the process! But maybe you're more coordinated than I.

I siphoned mine off into jars, but only to see how much I had. I just guessed at how "dry" the tomatoes were, but had the saved juice if the sauce was too thick. After I had determined that the sauce was fine and had made my recipe, I heated the "water" to a boil, acidified it and canned it with the sauce. I originally had enough tomatoes to completely fill the steamer basket, even pressed them down a little to get all of them in. I have since wondered if one couldn't just reduce by boiling the liquid that came from the tomatoes, it would certainly go faster than reducing a pot of tomatoes-less worry about scorching!

Can anyone clarify how to process the tomato water? BWB for 40 minutes and/or PC for 25 minutes but at what pounds? 10 or 15? And what is the headspace for water? Same as juice? Soup says 1" and juice says 1/2"

Like I said above, "Yes acidify it. You pressure can it like any other broth/stock - 20 minutes for pints and 25 min for quarts at weight for your altitude."

The issue is pH, not density. Tomato juice, which can be BWB canned, is much more acidic than water - water has a pH of 7+. So even if you add acid the pH is still too high and like all low acid things ( in this highly alkaline) it must be pressure canned.

If you choose to BWB process it that is your choice, your risk to take.

Dave

OK thanks. "at weight for your altitude" is what I didn't understand because on the tomato juice page, there are two different weights listed for my altitude. But I think you are using the info from the "Stocks" page. http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_05/stock_broth.html  Correct?

I already put them in the PC at 10lbs, but I used 1/2" headspace as for juice, not the 1" as for stock. Hope that doesn't screw things up.

"But I think you are using the info from the "Stocks" page. "

Correct. We aren't talking about canning tomato juice. This is a stock, basically water with a bit of tomato included, and for all stocks the weight stays the same, only the time required changes.

There are basically only 2 weight options - 10 lbs and 15 lbs. And your altitude determines which is the standard for you.

Are you above or below 1000 feet? For below 1000' that standard weight is 10-11 lbs depending on your type of canner - gauge or weighted. Above 1000' it is 15 lbs. Once you determine the weight required for your altitude then normally everything is done at that same weight. For example my house altitude is 860' so everything I pressure can is done with a 10 lb weight. If you are still using a gauge canner then it would have to be 11 lbs since gauges are so inaccurate.

Weighted canners are far more reliable and the most common by far. Gauge-only canners should be avoided whenever possible.

The other different weights given on a very few recipes are simply options you may use IF you change the times accordingly.

Dave

Thanks Dave. Altitude is below 1000. This page has a 10 lb time and a 15 lb time for that altitude. That's why I was confused.

They came out very nice! I PC'd at 10 lbs for 25 minutes. Headspace seems to have been okay. No siphoning and they all popped. The bits of tomato in it all seemed to have congealed together at the bottom of the jars.

And this method of making sauce is the best! It was so easy to make luscious thick sauce. I only boiled it for about 10-15 minutes, so I didn't even need to reduce it at all. This is definitely my new way to make sauce. Thanks all!

Looks good Jen. I think this thread has clearly answered my original question about the possibilities of making tomato juice with them. :( I'll stick with my good old Victorio.

Dave

LOL Dave. You should have seen the look on my DH's face when he came home the day I got the juicer. He was so excited and came into the kitchen, lifted the lid off my pan of "juice" and just... deflated. "What is THIS? This is not tomato juice!" He said he thought it was going to be a magic contraption that eliminated the need to do all that straining and smushing through the KitchenAid. He really thought the hose was going to pipe out bright orange seedless peel-less tomato juice without any work at all. Poor guy. ;-)

I really liked the way the sauce turned out too. If you can get your hands on some grapes, the steam juicer will make beautiful grape juice for your hubby! Just wash the grapes, put them in the steamer basket--stems and all--and cook. Also useful for applesauce...

Well I wasn't quite that idealistic. ;-) Figured I have to do some straining at least. Instead Ball has a new model electric tomato press for making juice, sauce and salsa that I've been looking at. Comes with an automatic scraper blade for keeping the cone clean as it works for lazy me. Meanwhile we finished up a total of 70 qts of tomato juice today with the dependable Victorio. We do love our tomato juice and quasi-V8 juice.

Dave

Now I wish I had a steam juicer, but I wouldn't have anywhere to put it! And here I was proud of myself for putting a bushel of tomatoes through the Squeezo today. I got 13 pints of tomato sauce, LOL, a long way from Dave's 70 quarts of juice!

I put the pulp into the big electric Nesco roaster at 350F, brought it to a boil, then took the lid off to allow for evaporation. It took 5 hours to reduce to the level of thickness I like, but I didn't have to do anything except stir it every couple of hours, no sticking or scorching. I turned on the roaster and went out and picked a couple more bushels of tomatoes, checked the apple trees, gave the compost barrel a turn or two and got some more leeks into the dehydrator. About 7 pm I canned tomato sauce, adding only citric acid and salt.

I used the roaster to reduce my spaghetti sauce for canning too, and always use it for apple butter. It's just easy to let it cook while I do other things and I save my arms from those "molton lava" splatters that happen when the stuff starts getting thick.

Annie

Question: So, if I start with 30 lbs of tomatoes for making spaghetti sauce, put them all in the steamer top, drain away the tomato "water", then add the onions et al and put through food mill, boil and process, this is essentially the same as "reducing by half" yes? I just don't have to cook forever to evaporate all that water. It doesn't mean that I have to start with more tomatoes, right? For the proportions?

I can see using it to make plain tomato sauce but I can't really picture how you would add the other ingredients for spaghetti sauce AFTER making the sauce this way. They normally go in with the tomatoes and have to cook the flavor into it. So you would be cooking it down even more if you waited to add them after.

But maybe I don't understand what you are asking correctly. If you mean does 30 # of tomatoes equal the same amount of tomato sauce if done both ways - the steam juicer vs. milled then I'd have to guess no simply because milled sauce has to cook down quite a bit more than apparently juicer sauce does and juicer sauce still has all the peels and seeds in it which would give it more dry volume but less water. It's comparing volume of water to volume of tomato pulp with all the water removed - that's apples to oranges.

Confusing.

Dave

I guess what I'm asking about is proportions. Let's say I saute the onions etc, then put all the ingredients for spaghetti sauce (minus the herbs, salt, sugar) into the steamer. Drain off the juice, then put the remaining pulp through the mill, reheat pulp with herbs and salt, add back some water if needed to cook a bit, then jar. How is that different from roasting the tomatoes first and draining water, which a lot of people do?

Does this way affect the needed proportions of acid/low-acid or is it essentially the same as running everything through the mill, then cooking to reduce? Both ways are getting rid of excess water right?

I misread then as I thought you were talking about adding the onions, peppers, etc. after making the sauce. Normally when I make spaghetti sauce I begin with plain canned tomato sauce and then add all the other ingredients, let it simmer, then serve as we prefer chunky spaghetti sauce rather than a smooth puree.

But I really can't say for sure as I have never done it. Don't know that anyone has. In theory the amount of balanced ingredients that goes in should be of equal balance coming out. I just don't know what effect the steam juicing will have on things like onions, peppers, and mushrooms. I would suspect a substantial flavor and texture difference over doing it the traditional way but that is just a guess.

But I wouldn't be overly concerned about the safety aspects if you maintain all the proportions in the recipe and since it is pressure canned.

Dave

I don't have a steam juicer, but I really don't think it is necessary since I have a crock pot. I fill my 6-qt crock pot with tomatoes to the rim, on low if it will be a while before I can get to it, or on high if I want to deal with them in a few hours. I DO NOT STIR, as I want to separate the tomato water. It eventually gets to where I can easily remove up to 3 quarts of tomato water with a ladle. I save the tomato water in the fridge to use for soup, making rice, or returning to boil and processing like tomatoes (lemon juice, salt, PC 10# 25min). The tomatoes get run through a sieve then returned to the crock pot to heat back up while washing jars, etc. to prepare for canning. I really don't like the idea of cooking tomatoes down to make sauce, because the quality of the tomatoes really declines from long cooking. My sauce is minimally cooked, and it has a nice fresh taste. I whipped up a quick tomato soup a few days ago by slightly thinning it, adding lots of herbs and garlic, and a good gob of sour cream. It was great. I also use it for pasta and pizzas.

One more question about the tomato water. If we are pressure canning it like it is stock, why do we need to acidify it? We don't acidify the chicken stock.

But you pressure can the chicken stock longer. Treat the tomato water as not acidic, then can it as long as you would something that is not acidic. Tomatoes normally get less time because they are acidic, and if I want to can the tomato water on a similar timetable, then I acidify like tomatoes.

Actually you don't can the chicken stock longer. I'm using the time and table for chicken stock for the tomato water as per Dave above. But it was still recommended to add acid to the tomato water. Why?

(1) Because pH does not remain stable during shelf storage so it increases the shelf life, and

(2) because it it mostly water (pH of 7+) so it gives you an extra margin of safety with no negative side-effects. For that reason some even add citric acid to their meat stocks and other low-acid foods just as commercial canned foods have added.

But if adding it bothers you for some reason then it is always your choice to do it or not.

Dave

Thanks Dave. I wonder what the pH of chicken stock is...

I read the question way above about "core and thaw" on frozen tomatoes? I never core them before freezing. I wash them and toss into gallon ziplock bags. When needed, I bring out as many as I need and run under hot water in the kitchen sink. This will crack the skin. I then peel the skin off while the tomato is still frozen. Let thaw on counter for about 10 minutes and then core while still partially frozen. Works great for me when using my frozen tomatoes for making spaghetti sauce, tomato sauce, chili ect all year long.

This year I do plant on making tomato juice from some of them but no need to peel the skin off. I will just partially thaw, core and cut up. once cooked and run thru the food mill, the skins and seeds will be removed.