New to the forum

6 years ago

Hello All,

I'm a newbie in a few ways - new to rose gardening and new to this forum. I'm a male, certainly not the type for roses.

When I bought the house many years ago, there was a wonderfully fragrant pinkish/redish rose bush. It was incredibly fragrant - the scent could be experienced about 15 feet away. Also, there were other roses, about 4 of them that died but a pesky little rose plant never gave up on life. This little rose plant was a fighter. Most years, it never produced a rose and was over run with blackspot.

I decided it was time to plant new things in the gardens around the pool. And so I did. This past January, my local Sam's Club had plenty of roses for sale. Initially bought 5 (assorted - Fragrant Cloud, Irish Masterpiece, Arizona, Kordes Perfecta and John F Kennedy) for the first purchase. I know how some of the fellow forum members feel towards body bag rose and Sam's Club but keep in mind, I was and still am a complete newbie at this. It was while I planted these first 5 roses that I realized how wonderful it was to place a living yet dormant plant in the ground with the hope and expectations it would flourish into a vibrant plant full of rose blossoms, just like in some of those magazines with pictures of the perfect gardens. I'd say the addiction was immediate and to be honest, I really can't explain it to others.

Well, I started thinking how other areas of the backyard could use some roses too. And I returned to Sam's for more. This time I bought Red Masterpiece for presence of a classic, fragrant red rose. They were planted quickly. Then I realized there were climbing roses. Well how convenient! Perfect to hide the fence. So I bought and planted 4 Climbing America and 1 Climbing Pinata rose plants. Then I really couldn't help but to buy more roses. Ended up buying 2 Intrigue, 4 Angel Face, Oklahoma and Electric Rose. I bought two additional roses very late knowing it would be a long shot for them to survive: Proud Land and Paradise. Coincidentally, Paradise was found at a Walmart with 5 healthy and very green canes with no signs of new growth and without any visible sign of disease. Electric and Proud Land are blackened and I assume dead. Paradise has been suffering cane die back and is down to 3 canes, and still no growth.

What I learned:

-not all rose plants are the same when it comes to strength and growth. My best roses are the ones I thought wouldn't make it. The Intrigues, JFK, Perfecta and Red Masterpiece roses have grown brilliantly. Constant flushes with new blooms, lots of new blooms. My pool contractor was brutal on one of the Red Masterpieces, removing 1/2 of the new growth from careless actions from one of the workers. Shockingly, the plant decided it would not tolerate it and had lots of new growth in a few short weeks. In under 4 weeks, there were a few canes at good height with plenty of blooms. I guess the lesson learned is if the new growth isn't to your satisfaction, let the rose plant know by ripping off the current new growth on half of the plant.

-some plants are very slow growers. Angel Face and Fragrant Cloud are the guilty ones. FC will likely be given a transplant into a pot over the winter to make room for a grower. It has struggled mightly with feeble attempts at growth. AF plants have little growth but I think this might be a characteristic of the rose species. Not so sure if they'll get the shovel treatment or not.

-some roses know how to show. Red Masterpiece have large velvety roses, 5" or more in diameter. Fragrant too. Definitely a show off type. The red blooms get attention. The Intrigue roses are the fastest growing in terms of bush diameter and the sheer number of blooms. One one plant there was more than 40 and on the other smaller one, about 15. And the scent is wonderful. JFK and Perfecta have wonderful form with dark green leaves and beautiful blooms.

-things affect roses. Some things are out of anyone's control like excessive rains. A couple of the climbing America roses suffered from the recent rains (they are in low spots). And then there's the bugs. Some roses get the attention from bugs, other's dont.

-some roses seem thankful for the afternoon shade. FC is in the sun for most of the day along with Red Masterpieces and AF. RM love it, the other two not so much. The other roses have afternoon shade and their growth appears to be stronger and healthier (RM excepted).

-black spots suck

-learned rose plants may revert to root stock. The old pinkish rose bush is one that died and it's root stock took over. I'm chopping it down.

-the little runt of a rose plant that survived all these years is a Raspberry Swirl. Heavenly beautiful and scentful and so far, got 5 blooms out of the plant that is barely taller than a foot. I added earthworm castings and later fertilizer. Plant has about doubled and it's canes are now getting to be thicker than pencil, plenty of new growth.

I think this is a long enough introduction, if you made it this far in reading. I have grander plans for the winter - thinking about lining one side of my driveway with roses between the palm trees. Thinking red roses like RM. But I'm open to suggestions as long as the blooms are large, plentiful and fragrant. Ideally, plant is resistant to black spot, bugs and other diseases.

Featured Answer

thonotorose

6 years ago

"those magazines with pictures of the perfect gardens" Also know as rose porn.

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Comments (32)

jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
6 years ago
Glad to meet you DVS inFL...Interesting write up...Best wishes for a successful rose garden!
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Welcome from a fellow newbie. You've learned a lot in a short time. There are quite a few folks here that garden in Fl and one even has a blog just on her garden. Although I know there's a lot of different growing areas, many of them have nematodes and get roses on fortuanii rootstock or grow OwnRoot, ordering from some Fl growers such as coolroses.com. You might try looking into the Kordes Parfuma line. They're stellar and may be available at your local Lowe's, perhaps on the sale rack by now. I just got two gorgeous Zaide roses for a really great deal there.

P.S. Feel free to post some pics.
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
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Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
6 years ago
You really sound like you'll fit in here beautifully. You're a good writer, too, besides the rose nut lovely details.
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
6 years ago
Welcome DVS, you are joining a great group of folks. Having so many amazing rose growers from all over the world is really cool. So many great people growing so many gorgeous roses and willing to share their passion and expertise. You will love this forum
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
teka2rjleffel
6 years ago
You definitely got the rose bug. Welcome. There are lots of men of the forum. Some really experienced ones too. As a veteran of FL rose growing for 15 years, I know it presents special challenges so pay close attention to other FL rose grower's posts. Ken from NE GA is also a veteran of FL and he's very knowledgeable. Best of luck.
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked teka2rjleffel
kublakan
6 years ago
Welcome fellow FL gardener. You sound like you're off to a great start. Do you spray your roses?

-Adrian.
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked kublakan
Ken Wilkinson
6 years ago
Welcome to the forum. After rose gardening in Central and S.E., FL for almost 40 years, I learned a few things about growing good roses. Biggest thing, some roses just don't like FL. and will die. The second most important thing I learned was WHERE you buy your roses from, makes all the difference in the world. Get yourself settled a little and ENJOY what you do. There are a lot of roses out there that do great in Fl. What part of Fl do you call home?? I grew up in Hollywood, spent 20 years in Winter Haven, then 10 years in Port St. Lucie before retiring up to the N.E GA. MTS in 2008.
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked Ken Wilkinson
thonotorose
6 years ago
Yes, where are you in general? Please join in at the Antiques Forum, too. I'm in Thonotosassa, northeast Hillsborough County.
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked thonotorose
suncoastflowers
6 years ago
Hi and welcome. Another FL resident and pretty new to roses here. You'll fit right in around here. :)
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked suncoastflowers
titian1 10b Sydney
6 years ago
Welcome. Looking forward to more post from you.
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked titian1 10b Sydney
gagalzone8
6 years ago
Welcome! I am a long time yard nut, but only been into roses in the last few years. You can find more info than you need on these forums. So many people with real world experience share their yays and nays! (love to read about roses before I buy, this chick is on a budget) Everyone is so kind and helpful! Love this place!
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked gagalzone8
nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska
6 years ago
Welcome to the rose forum and you'll find the loveliest people here who share and will happily feed your rose obsessions! You've made some terrific observations for your first forays into rose growing, and being willing to observe and learn from roses in your yard is the first and best advice for you at this stage of the game. Try a few things and see how they work, rather than going full speed at a grand scheme that may not suit your zone or yard.

As you explore other options for roses, you're likely to find that the roses offered locally at the department stores tend to be more problematic than roses that are better suited for your zone. A lot of warm zone rose growers for instance grow old garden roses like teas (not the Hybrid Teas like Arizona or JFK that tend to be Blackspot prone) and Chinas that aren't usually sold at typical stores. I don't know how well teas do in the humidity of Florida for BS, but there are plenty of people here that can advise you about good roses for your zone. Don't hesitate to ask for advice ahead of time, and remember that we've learned what we've learned by going through the same kind of trial and error process that you have done.

One general advice to consider that we've all had to learn the hard way is to be PATIENT with your roses. Almost all roses take their first year to settle in their roots and being too eager to push blooms or tall growth can interfere with root development. In your zone, you need to get those roots well established before the summer brutal heat kicks in, since that's your tough season. Any rose tends to take three years to come into its potential and eventual growth, and many of them can even improve their BS resistance with time (though some are notoriously affected by it). Poseidon for instance is bred for its BS resistance and is totally clean in my zone, but it was also bred for winter hardiness and it may have slower growth in your zone. Don't be too quick with your shovel, particularly for climbers: the mantra is, first year sleep, second year creep, third year leap. For climbers you need to add a fourth year. You're always free to remove roses that you don't like the blooms or some other aesthetics at any time, but for growth habits, height, vigor or other health issues you would do best to give them some time.

You can always ask about tendencies of a given rose to temper expectations - Angel Face is never a large rose even in hot climates for instance. Always consider the zone of people advising you about things though- cold zoners like me don't have the best advice for Florida rose growing. In contrast, Poseidon and Fragrant Cloud tend to be much larger growers in most zones, but if you have to trim them back for some reasons that can affect the height as they put down roots to recover and regrow the canes.

Glad to have you join us and feel free to chime in about questions. Pictures are always welcome (hint)

Cynthia
DVS inFL (Zone 9a) thanked nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska
DVS inFL (Zone 9a)
Original Author
6 years ago
thanks to all for the kind welcome.

vaporvac ...nematodes??? Well, that's another new thing to learn.

kublakan ...heck yes I spray those roses, when I can. I tried the organic route on my lemon and orange trees. Abandoned that idea when it came to the roses.

Ken Wilkinson ..."some roses just don't like FL. and will die." Wish I knew which varieties/growers to avoid before I started. Totally believe you on this point. "important thing I learned was WHERE you buy your roses". This lesson has started. "There are a lot of roses out there that do great in Fl." Care to share which ones thrive in FL? I live in Panama City.

gagalzone8...bought each rose for $9, except the Proud Land, Electron, Paradise for under $5. Took a chance on the $5 roses, but a few of the $9 roses aren't so spiffy either with life.

nippstress..."Hybrid Teas like Arizona or JFK that tend to be Blackspot prone". I'm lucky, so far. Those have been so little BS (so far) and great growers, I thought they were genetically modified creatures. "first year sleep, second year creep, third year leap". I didn't know this - just assumed roses either grew in the 1st year or died. Some of my roses look like they're perfectly comfortable in their new spots with their tremendous growth of canes. But I'll keep your rhyme in my thoughts as I resist the urge to shovel prune the Fragrant Cloud. FC will likely get moved into a pot and from there, time will tell the path it takes. Yes, I have pruned some of the smallish yellow twigs off the FC as the few leaves turned yellow before (from BS) and fell off. The FC rose is a very high maintenance type of plant - cleaning up all those BS infected leaves, pruning the yellow twigs and spraying it for additional protection from BS. I'm sure two of the climbers have drowned or struggled greatly with near drowning from the heavy rainfalls in June. My guess is they don't make to see Fall. But they were growing well until those drowning rains came.

Time for PICS! Some of the pictures are not current.

Smaller Intrigue, around end of May:

Angel Face:

One of the Climbing America roses now struggling to survive (pic taken before the debilitating June rains):

Typical bloom on Red Masterpiece (nice fragrance too):

Typical large bloom on JFK. No scent, BS resistant (so far), lots of blooms:

Arizona (May 7):

Kordes Perfecta (Mar 6):

Lastly, the reviving Raspberry Swirl (nice fragrance), typical bloom:
Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
6 years ago
DVS, beautiful roses. I have a friend in Tampa and she grows First Crush, Oklahoma and one she thinks is Fore and Ice. They are thriving .

You look like you are already doing very well with your roses.
Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca
6 years ago
Beautiful roses! And welcome , so nice to have another rose fanatic join us. Don't come to us if you ever want talked out of a rose! :)

maybe your climbing America needs some space from the fence . It gets very big ! Lovely coral blooms though , I hope it perks up for you ! Can't wait to see more :)
summersrhythm_z6a
6 years ago
Welcome! Nice photos! I think the heat from the stones might be the reason for your climbing America rose struggling to survive
teka2rjleffel
6 years ago
DVS, I noticed that you have stone around one of your roses. Stone gets very hot in FL and holds the heat. I had roses die that had stone around them. Just a thought for the future. Love your Raspberry Swirl.
enchantedrosez5bma
6 years ago
Welcome to this great group. Your roses look lovely and so healthy! It will be fun to watch your garden progress.

Sharon
gagalzone8
6 years ago

Roses! · More Info
I am in South Ga and Love Love Love Belindas Dream!!
gagalzone8
6 years ago

Roses! · More Info
About 4 year old. We have had crazy weather, so this is a picture from last year. I swear, our tornado sirens have been going off weekly! We have had days were were 3 tornadoes were spotted in one day...just nuts!! My office is next to the airport and we had one come by here. Of course, I always have my camera and I was on it! lol
gagalzone8
6 years ago
Thank goodness it was a few miles north of me, but the winds from it sure wreaked havoc on our yards.
gagalzone8
6 years ago
summersrhythem, I read your comment about the heat from the stones..I just figured out (this year) that my Nahema, Sharifa and some other flowers, are not doing well in a bed by my garage. Reflected heat from my light brick and concrete. If you look at the Belinda full bush picture, you will see what I am talking about. I was facing North when I took the picture. That area gets very early morning sun, then dappled from the pines, then full blast from around 10:30 to 3:00. Pure oven. I have planted a white crepe myrtle right behind Belinda. I can keep it limbed up so it is open, but offers some dappled light. (I have several other white in the yard) That strip behind the fence leads up to my breezeway and door, so I want it to look good!
DVS inFL (Zone 9a)
Original Author
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
I'm not entirely convinced the heat from stones is the factor. What is not shown is the huge lemon tree - the reason for the stones. The fence offers shade until 9AM or so then the lemon tree offers shade after 2PM. Besides, the other climber roses are showing much promise to grow and bring forth roses. One of the climber was placed in a low spot that does pond water in heavy rainfall conditions (the entire area is sand) until the ground soaks it in. I believe the unusually frequent rains from June to now have lead to the demise.

Rains have caused a big problem with black spot affecting some of the roses. I'll go out and get pics, once the rain subsides of course.
Ken Wilkinson
6 years ago
Nelson's Roses doesn't seem to have any Nurseries that they deal with anywhere in your general area, unless you are willing to take a quick trip to Tallahassee. K&M has a bigger selection. Depending on what type of roses you are hunting for. Give COOLROSES a call and see what they have. If you have a specific rose, color or type in mind that you haven't grown but are interested in, let everyone know. I know I've grown a BUNCH of roses on Fortuniana over the years.
lavenderlacezone8
6 years ago
Welcome DVS! So happy that you are getting to join the great group of folks here. Your pictures are already wonderful.

If you are doing the organic thing with your lemon trees, you can surely do it with your roses too if that's your choice. Lots of us are no-spray but some roses are definitely easier than others!
Gillian (zone 5b/6a) Ontario, Canada
6 years ago
Welcome to the forum DVS!

You will not find a better, more helpful group than here :)

Beautiful roses! I'll look forward to seeing more pictures from your growing collection :)
DVS inFL (Zone 9a)
Original Author
6 years ago
Ken...thanks! I'll check into those places.

lavenderlace...I did the organic thing with the citrus trees in years past. Soil became depleted from minerals and nutrients and the leaves on the trees showed the deficiencies. Started a fertilizer regimen for the orange and lemon trees, started spraying copper based fungicide and the citrus trees have never looked better. Lemon tree (meyer variety) is on the way to record harvest this November/December. And with it, I'll be pleading with more people to take the 3 or 4 wheel barrows of lemons away. Back to the roses...they're getting the chemical addiction treatment instead of the organic route.

Gillian...where in Ontario are you located? Near London? Waterloo? Windsor? Sarnia?
DVS inFL (Zone 9a)
Original Author
6 years ago
Well, it finally stopped raining in Sunny Florida. Here's an update: no blooms but on 2 Climbing America plants, black spot has been bad even with routine applications of chemicals, Paradise and Electron roses are officially dead, Proud Land is the same way but I can't pull it out of the ground.

Here's a few of then and now pics:

Climbing America rose, lost everything but there's a sprig of new growth at the top of the crown. Then:

Now:

Intrigue, the smaller of the two. Then & now:

Lastly, the runt known as Fragrant Cloud:
Gillian (zone 5b/6a) Ontario, Canada
6 years ago
Gorgeous roses! I have America as well, it will never get very big for me, but I love the colour and the way it "glows" :)

I'm just east of Toronto, it's an ice box here :) to think, if I moved to Toronto, I'd be zone 7a! What difference an hour makes
bethnorcal9
6 years ago
Welcome to our crazy world of rose obsession! Nothin' wrong with trying those bagged bareroots (I prefer NOT to call them "body bags" tho) But... unfortunately, often times you will get mismarked ones. And I hate to burst your bubble, but that rose that's "supposed" to be INTRIGUE does not look like it. I think you might have HEIRLOOM instead! INTRIGUE is a darker, more plum-burgundy color than your rose. But then. sometimes they don't always bloom true on the first blooming. Watch the rebloom on it and see if it darkens up. If it doesn't, then you probably have HEIRLOOM.
DVS inFL (Zone 9a)
Original Author
6 years ago
Say what??? I went to check the canisters and sure enough, it said intrigue and the pic was definitely a darker purple. It looked like a different rose in its form. I bought two of them at different times. Some chance to have mismatched intrigue in both cases. Oh well. I'll call them heirloom henceforth.