I had read somewhere online last year, that there were a lot of minis that were hardy to zone 4. My problem has been finding some that were available in stores. Not even sure where to order online to canada. I was interested in minis for extra variety & colours without needing 3-5 feet of space for each.

Most minis are tip hardy with no protection in my zone 5/6, W. PA., garden. A very few are not tip hardy, but cane hardy to 1/2 through 2/3 of cane lengths, also without protection. What little dieback these have is not a factor since what has died from winter kill will be pruned back in spring even if it was alive. All minis are generally very winter hardy for me, easy to grow, and very rewarding.

Black Spot is another issue. All the minis I or rose friends have grown without exception, are black spot magnets for us here, unfortunately. An aggressive spray program is a necessity if success is expected with minis in my climate.

The second drawback is that the enormous number of beautiful bloomed minis are scentless. Very few minis have any fragrance, and even fewer have strong fragrance.

Here 's my list of very fragrant minis:

Diamond Eyes

Scentsational

Sachet

Winter Magic

Sweet Arlene

Lavender Crystal

Electric Lady

-----------------------

Well scented, but not the potency of the above minis:

Jilly Jewel

Pacesetter

Apricot Twist

Cafe Ole

The two best minis, alas unscented, IMHO are:

Pierrine - 18" tall, elegant light pink heavy substance HT form blooms, impressive!

Irresistible_- tall 3+', columnar pure white, heavy petaled, ex. long lasting blooms

To answer your question in one sentence.....

Yes they can, very easily, but spray for black spot you must, and don't expect much for fragrance except for a very few.

The other plus to minis hardiness is that they are almost all own root. It's very hard to find grafted minis and what I've seen were on Fortuniana which you don't want in a cold zone anyway. Even if the rose does have severe die back to the ground it will come back from its roots and not some rootstock. I would still plant them a little deeper to protect the roots but otherwise I think they should do fine.

seil, Do you spray for yours?

HalloBlondie, I don't think HCR ships to Canada; there is no mention of it in their catalogue. It seems like Hortico, a Canadian Company, might have a selection of minis.

Thank you for the list, Moses. I wonder what it is in the lineage of minis that makes them susceptible to BS?

Mcnastarana,

The answer to why minis are so black spot vulnerable may not be directly genetic, but primarily physical.

The lower leaves of roses are generally the first to show black spot damage. The fungus then works its way up the bush.

The miniature rose's lowest leaves are very close to the ground. Black spot may more easily establish a foothold on them if the black spot spores at soil level are splashed up onto them. The shorter distance from the soil to these low leaves means splashes of contaminated rain/hose water hits them very easily. The inter-node distance between mini leaves is so short additional splashing on up the bush takes place. The bush is contaminated very easily and quickly.

Also, the moister environment down at soil level favors more/quicker black spot growth and spread.

When one black spot colony gets established on a large leaflet, say from a hybrid tea, it does far less damage to that leaflet than one equal sized black spot colony on a much smaller mini rose leaflet. The mini leaflet succumbs more quickly.

These are my theories as to why mini roses are so black spot vulnerable due to just their physical nature.

The genetic reason may be that so many minis have the genes of one particular large bush/flowered rose....the name escapes me. This large rose consistently throws miniature roses as offspring with crosses made with it, in spite of its large size. This large rose may be a black spot magnet on its own, so it may pass on its vulnerability to its mini offspring.

I agree with everyone else that just like any other rose, the answer is "sometimes. I have probably 75 or more minis scattered around other roses and another 25 coming this year, and I'd say their survival rate is on average better than my HTs and floribundas. At least 80% or even 90% for a year or two. I have had some minis (like Lavender Crush) that survived a few years then faded, but that's not uncommon for any lavender rose in cold zones. I don't find particular black spot troubles with my minis, rather less than HTs and floris, but my zone is much drier than the east coast. Thanks for Moses for a logical explanation of the possible reasons BS might be affecting minis.

Bottom line is I'd go for it - you can fit in WAY more minis than floribundas into the same space, and the odds are at least as good for other HTs and floris.

Cynthia

No, I don't spray. I hate handling the stuff and being on the lake I know what ever I put in the soil ends up in the water sooner or later. The lakes are getting polluted enough without my help.

I've learned to just live with the spots. The blooms are still beautiful so I just concentrate on enjoying them and not making myself nuts trying to have "perfect leaves". I don't find that my minis are any more black spot prone than any of my other roses. I do find that they recuperate faster though. One mini that has very rarely had a BS problem at all is Softee. And it blooms its head off!

Yes. No sure where HCR catalog is distributed. I live in zone 5 near where HCG uses to have a retail nursery and miniature roses survived as well or better than most others. If they have Magic Carousel, it is tougher and prettier than most.

High Country Roses is in Denver, CO, and I don't think they sell outside the US.