Dave, thanks very much for your fast and informative response. I think that must be what happened. I feel a tad silly. I swear one of my preserving book suggested I dip the jars (warm) into 180 deg water. Those directions also said to dip the lids in hot water as well. This isn't make sense to me because if you put filled jars in warm water (with warm vinegar solution, then sealed) and you bring the water ath to a boil (rolling slow, not wild) for 10 minutes, isn't that enough to heat up the jars?

I appreciate your helping me figure this out.

Tomorrow I hope to do something ? With the green tomatoes, ripe tomatoes and the many small ground cherries. I have a dozen or two green and red jalepenos I want to preserve somehow.

petalique, I find that the jars are thinner, but they don't seem any more likely to break than the old ones I have. I've also experienced the "thermal shock" that you are describing and can't tell you why six jars can survive and the 7th cannot, but it happens.

As Dave says, fill with the product and the hot brine, then put into your canner and slowly bring your water to a boil and hopefully you won't have as much breakage. I've found that I have some, always. My old jars get a thunk or bump with something and I don't notice and they break in the canner. I'm not diligent about temperature and the bottom falls out of the new ones. I always lose a couple a year.

I'm sorry about those expensive green beans, though, it's always worse when you have just a few than it is when you have a bushel waiting for you!

Happy canning anyway...

Annie

Thanks for your response, Annie as well as your perspective. As you and Dave pointed out, it was likely thermal shock from user error. I have t canned for a while and I had the kettle water too hot when I put the filled jars in.

As for the pricey green beans, I waited too long and has to pay more. I grew some of my perpetually collected wider beans, but the round thin beans seem better for canning. (The wider ones I use in cooking.)

I had a good time putting up a few jars and I think the dilly beans will be appreciated by those watching calories or with diabetes.

Any recommendations for next years green bean planting? I'd like a bean that tends to stay dark after canning, has good flavor, isn't stringy. Asking for too much? I'll take a look on Johnny's site.

petalique, I'm going way off in the other direction with those beans. If you want them for canning, but not something like dilled beans, try the Royal Burgundy. They are a purple bean that turns green upon heating, so when canned they are just "green beans". They are a little sturdier, though, and have no strings and grow well here in Michigan. The kids call them "magic beans" because if I pour boiling water over the purple beans they "magically" turn green in front of their eyes, LOL. Anyway, I like them for canning, they don't seem to get as soft and the flavor is very nice and they are stringless.

For dilly beans, though, I like to can whole beans, not smaller pieces. The Royal Burgundies don't seem to grow very straight for me, they are always curved, so they don't pack upright in a jar and so aren't "pretty" and not as useful for things like stirring a Bloody Mary. (grin) Or just for snacking/fingerfood, of course. I grew Blue Lake for those and they were prolific, but so far my favorite has been Provider, because it'll germinate in colder soil, letting me plant a little earlier here in Northern Michigan.

Annie

Annie1992, thanks for the bean suggestions. I hope to try Royal Burgundy and Provider. Unfortunately, I don't own a pressure canner, and I suspect that one is necessary for canning green beans. Yes, I can imagine the RB being a delight for children to see -- that color change must tickle them.

I also live in a cool area, Zn 5a Ma. I grow a "was originally" broad flat green bean and just kept collecting and replanting the seeds. The bean seems to tolerate cold weather pretty well and one year even the mature beans that had dropped to the ground germinated right where they fell. They grow tall and are prolific. If some of the bean pods get too thick, I just let them get more mature and then use the buttery shelled beans in soups. They are a rather soft bean, but not stringy.

Below are the dilled small (we're green, unripened) tomatoes and the farm stand green beans.

Unfortunately, I forgot to add the pickling SALT to the first batch (4 jars) of dilled tomatoes. Do you think they will be safe to eat in a few months?

I wish the small tomatoes had kept their pretty green color. Would a bit of citric acid have helped? I thighs about re-processing the unsalted dilled tomatoes, but they had already softened and I figured another processing cycle would have turned them to mush.

A hard frost came before I could harvest the many unripened, green ground cherries. I suspect that they are goners now.

We have many "fox grapes" or escaped Concord grapevines at the back border of our property. In August our hillside smelled like grape jelly. Maybe I should invest in a fruit or cider press and learn to make juice or wine. The robins are gobbling them down now.

Oooh, I envy you those grapes, I'd be making juice and you don't need a press to do that, you simmer the grapes, crush them and pour them into a juice bag (which for me is a clean well washed pillowcase kept just for that purpose. Hang the bag by a rope over the back of a chair or a broomstick between two chairs and let it drip into a bucket or stock pot or whatever overnight and in the morning, you have juice! If you squeeze the bag, it'll be cloudy, but additional straining keeps it more clear. And it can be waterbath canned to boot! I have one seedless Concord grapevine and the birds try to beat me to them. I'll pick a handful and freeze them, adding to the bag as they ripen, until I have enough for the single batch of jam I make yearly. I've never seen Concord grapes for sale here, unfortunately.

I don't think citric acid would help keep the color of the tomatoes, it mostly prevents oxidation, not the color changes caused by cooking/heat. As for the salt free pickles, if the brine is of sufficient strength, I think they are OK. The salt is crucial in things like sauerkraut and fermented pickles, as they do not contain vinegar, but more for flavor in some vinegar pickles than for preservation purposes. That said, it does add some preservation qualities, and so, no one can really say. How much does your recipe call for and what is the strength of the brine, i.e. ratio of vinegar to water?

Annie

Thanks for your response, Annie.

For the dilled beans, the ratio was 3 (for recipe for 4 pints) was 3 Cups of white vinegar (I could only find 5% from the grocery store, it might have wanted 6%; and 3 Cups of water; and 2 Tbl pickling salt.

Do you think the 4 pints of dill pickled green tomatoes sans 2 T salt will be okay? I can keep it in a 50 to 60 deg. F cellar and in the dark. What if I eat them after only 6 months? Less?

wild Concord grapes. They are all over the place since the owner of acres behind us logged his land. He was being taxed for "buildable lots" on land that the town told him they'd never allow him to build on. He sold the wood to help pay the tax bill. Anyway, we suddenly got views (for a while), bluebirds (as it was open and sunny to our southwest) and new vegetation (which included the Concord grapes). The vines persist and have gotten huge and thick. I keep meaning to go and harvest some vines for "crafty" stuff. Some of the grapes can be gotten by just reaching up, others require more aerial skills, pulling strength or ingenuity.

Unfortunately, it seems that most have them have been hit by heavy frost, robins and advanced maturity.

Next year, in August and early September, I will have to remember to harvest them and do as you suggest. I made a jelly bag some years ago for crabapple jelly and I have lots of muslin on hand. I do understand about not squeezing the bag (forcing solids through), but patiently allow the juice to drip along uninterrupted.

A few years ago, while snacking on bunch of them fresh off the vine, I came upon a worm. I had to wonder how many more worms there were in them, but imagine that even with cultivated grapes, one comes across worms. Which reminds me, there is a type of large, brown moth that loves these grapes. I'll see if I can find the name.

Would you still use the grapes if some of them had worms? Thanks.

petalique, I found this from Oregon State University's extension service:

"Salt can be removed from most fresh-pack or “quick” pickles without affecting the safety of the
product if the recipe contains as much or more vinegar than water or other liquid. In other words, if
the recipe calls for one quart water, it should have at least one quart vinegar, as a rule of thumb.
Vinegar may even be the only liquid ingredient."

Since you have the required 50/50 ratio of vinegar to water, I think you're fine, although I don't know what it's going to do to the flavor of your pickles.

The grapes? Of course I'd use them, even with occasional worms. My big organic garden has all kinds of insects, from big honkin' tomato hornworms to slimy brown slugs to little tiny beetles and aphids. I do not use poisons absent an absolute emergency, my grandkids make pocket money by picking potato bugs and tomato worms. So, no matter how carefully I wash, select, pick over my kale or apples, whatever, I'm sure somehow that a bug or two probably gets in there. It's all cooked and sanitized, so it'll be fine. (grin) And remember, many other parts of the world eat insects as a protein source. Well, so do we, if you can afford lobster, that's basically just a big fat water bug!

Oh, and that jar that was the original subject of your post? I had the bottom fall out of a quart of homemade chicken stock last night. (sigh) It happens...

Annie

Thanks so much, Annie, for taking the time to look up the salt issue.

As to the worms in the grape; yes, it would just be the aesthetic and irrational creepiness of it. I don't use sprays and such on my gardens beyond Bt, soap and water, and bioneem on roses. I leave the large tomato hornworms with the q-tip parasites because I want more of those Ich* "wasps".

I must confess, I am fond of that giant Atlantic water bug - H. americanus. I hear ya.

Sorry to hear about you loosing a jar too. That just part of the experience from time to time. I whined about it because I hadn't canned in a while and only had a few jars of beans.