Lily, very good explanation!!

Yes I think all FL allow the enzymes to work before the heater reaches its target temp. Even with a hot fill most people don't have their water tanks set at 140 and above.

Enduring years ago before synthetic detergent boiling water was often used along with a scrub brush..lol

Than synthetic detergent hit the market but they did not have enzymes, however most household water tanks were set at 140-160...you could see the steam comming out of the crack around the washer lid..clothes were clean without enzymes, but than they had phosphates. You do also lol.....I believe heat can remove many stains. I recently used Purex Fab Fresh liquid on a load of kitchen towels with the last of my STPP, no enzymes in sight, every towel was spotless.

I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that's what prewash helps with stains ... it's not hot water so the enzymes can work better on the stains before you wash at a hotter setting (?)

The Oxyclean website says warm/hot water is best I believe.

A large aspect of a cool or warm prewash/soak is to prevent setting of heat-sensitive stains such as blood. Vintage Lady Kenmore washers with all those automatic-setting pushbuttons were programmed for a warm Enzyme Soak cycle.

CR may be on to something with the cold water washing. Surfactants have really advanced in the last few years and enzymes have been engineered to work better at lower temperatures. And who says that body oils solidify at cold temperatures? Perhaps they do once they've oxidized???

I've been using Tide Coldwater for over a year on some of my favorite shirts and only wash them in cold water and they smell and look clean. There is no build up of deodorant or body oils.

I think the issue with cold water washing is people using BOL detergents that don't have advanced surfactant and enzyme technologies. Body oils and other funk build up over time.

I'm still on the fence and am no way endorsing exclusive cold-water washing. Maybe cold water washes can be used more often than I thought?

I'm enjoying this thread, so keep the comments coming! I'd especially like to hear from those that mostly wash in cold water. What detergent do you use and how do your clothes look, smell and feel?

I would try Tide Coldwater if it came in an unscented version. I wonder if it doesn't because of lack of demand, or because it would smell bad without a masking scent.

An FAQ on Tide's own web page for Tide Coldwater says that warm or hot water provides best cleaning results, but you should use Tide Coldwater if you do wash in cold. This answer doesn't seem calculated to increase sales of the product.

Littlegreeny, what temperature is your cold water wash?

Tide Coldwater used to come in unscented, but think that's been discontinued. I don't think it was HE.

Cold water wash is around 60F. I actually have Tide Coldwater Free. It was discontinued in the US but still is available in Canada. I found it at my local Cermak. It is HE as well.

Another possibility is that Consumer Reports has fired all of their older workers and is relying on a millennial workforce who know everything and think that anyone over 35 is both stupid and a failure. Just wait till they figure out they will get older too, if they are lucky enough to do so.. I wonder if they will still consider aging to be a failure then or if they will realize that aging is not synonymous with stupidity nor is it for the faint of heart....

I used to wash mostly in cold water. Everything smelled clean. Thanks to this forum I now use warm or hot and my towels sure look a lot better.

Consumer's Reports also recently advised that primer is not needed when painting - another bit of questionable advice.

After almost forty years of subscribing to CR magazine, I am seriously thinking of not renewing. That laundry article is pathetic; I already read it online and rolled my eyes. As for their subscribers' survey on products' reliability, I have not received any surveys from CR, to fill out, in years.

Also... The latest issue has a reference to their online article on pressure cookers. They even tested a few and wrote up the results, except they left out the one electric pressure cooker that has the most and highest rating at Amazon, a large Facebook page group, etc etc etc. (Instant Pot in case you want to know)

Don't need hot water for laundry? Ha. Those people at CR don't wear wicking poly shirts that develop the dreaded funky odor after sweating up a storm in them. After a shirt has lived in a vacation suitcase for a few days .... Let's not even go there. I've been washing all our wicking stuff in HOT today.

Um... Rant over.

Cavimum, you always hit the nail on the head. What is wrong with you?

Perhaps CR would suggest we wash dishes in cold water too? Think of the energy saved while we rack up sick days from stomach flu and other things that come with dirt and spoiled food.

Not to be a nay sayer, lol, but I had many a backpacking trip in my youth, where I washed all my dishes in cold water and never got sick. My DD was in Senegal for 6 months 4 years ago and lived in a very tiny village of about 15 people. She said the women washed their clothing in the river, and she never saw such clean clothes (what does that say about me, haha). Anyway, just thought I'd play the devils advocate. I think hot water is wonderful. I like using less complicated chemicals. I am not a chemist so don't know anything about the chemicals used in making cold water washing possible in our machines. I would rather use higher temps, to get the energy for cleaning than higher chemicals.

Tide Coldwater Free HE is available on Amazon Prime, two bottles at a time. One of the pictures looks like the Canadian English/French version.

Just one thing I want to wash in cold: My Carhartt colored T-shirts, so they would fade slower. I wear these all the time, in all conditions, so they can get really sweated up. Maybe it's too much to hope they could be cleaned adequately at 20C or 30C in Tide Coldwater. littlegreeny, your experience with shirts is encouraging, but how heavily soiled are they?

I couldn't disagree more with CR.

Suburbandmd, my shirts have light to normal soil with "guy perspiration". I did have a stained shirt in my last load and the stain was completely removed.

Pat in s/e Mich said "What is wrong with you?"

LOL!!! I watch entirely too much Big Bang Theory. ;-)

Ya, I think I'm on my final subscription to CR. I look to Amazon for help much more often.

I'm 27 and have been washing in cold water since I was 13, and my mom all her life. We do it for money saving reasons, but I've also never had an issue with my clothes never being clean or anything (although the "hidden" dirtiness people here are describing is definitely skeeving me out). We have always had top loaders.

I actually posted about top loader vs front loader the other day and was told that if I wanted a front loader, I'd need to wash in hot water. I discovered most everyone washes in hot and actually did a load of towels/socks last night in hot to see what the fuss was about LOL.

AND... Kelsey, what did you think about the Hot wash? Im sure that you could tell even a slight difference.

I actually couldn't tell a difference, but I'm going to test it out again with a jacket that I have that constantly smells musty! Like I said, I never had an issue with anything else not being clean or smelling clean by washing in cold, but I guess knowing the "hidden" nastiness is bettered cleaned with hot is better peace of mind.

I also read in this thread that it may lessen fuzzballs, which would help with this one fleece blanket I keep trying to wash to reduce the fuzzies that get all over my living room from it!

Kelsey Kronmiller - just be sure that jacket will not shrink from a hot water wash. There are some garments that are not meant to ever see truly HOT water.

Seems odd to me that the cold-water proponents always reference washing in either hot or cold ... overlooking that there's a warm setting between the extremes.

Maybe I didn't read it in here anywhere or my eyes glazed over - if you wash in cold and add the recommended amount of chlorine bleach for the load, won't your underwear, and your washer, be clean? You hot water-only folks do advocate using bleach on a regular basis to keep the washer clean. Since the rinse cycle on new machines appears to be cold-only and the bleach dispenser apparently doesn't release until the rinse cycle, doesn't that kinda work on the e-coli, fungi, bacterial, whatzits? My husband and I don't share underwear and are both potty-trained, I think.

Bleach will help keep your washer clean but so will some hot and very warm washes. Washing strickly in cold water even if you use bleach is not enough to keep machine parts clean and free of build up. You don't have to wash everything in hot...like Dadoes said above...there's also warm.

Think about this Kelsey dear, would you run your dishwasher or hand wash dishes in cold water...of course you wouldn't because cold isn't going to break up and remove all oils.

The largest soil in clothing isn't the food stain or the grass knee stains, its body oils, and even if you don't have oily skin everyone has body oils. Your clothing rubs against the skin and the oils seep into the fibers. Same as bed sheets and pillowcases, body rubs on them and the body oils rub into them. Cold water ccan't break it all down and remove it regardless of what detergents you use...hot or very warm water can. In cold the oils start to build up and over time turn waxy. It can become most noticable in bed sheets and pillowcases as they will turn yellow or dingy.

Still there are some things you don't want to wash in hot, like darks, colors and brights, warm is a good choice for colors and brights and some darks, yet some darks may require cool...LOL

Hot is good for kitchen towels, bath towels, bedding and whites.

I should also mention cold water constricts , closes up fibers so soils are trapped and can't release. Warm and hot relaxes the fibers and allows water and detergent to break up and remove soils. Course we need to understand which textiles can tolorate hot before we start washing in it. LOL.

Frontloaders fill with much less volume of water than old-school toploaders. Much of the heat on a HOT fill is lost into the material of the clothes, drum, and tub.

My Fisher & Paykel toploader fills with 8 to 24 gallons depending on the level selection. The temp control system targets an incoming flow of 115°F for warm with the resultant temp in the tub being approx 105°F on a medium load, for approx 10°F temp loss.

Extrapolate the temp loss to a frontloader that fills with 3 to 4 gallons.

A restricted Warm that targets 75°F isn't losing heat when the mass of the machine is also 75°F to 80°F in the typical home environment. A restricted Hot of 90°F to 95°F will end up the same as warm. Cold may be controlled at 65°F to 70°F, which doesn't even come into play in some areas except during the winter season. COLD tap water in my area during summer is often 85°F to 90°F, the washer doesn't have refrigeration to make cold water colder than what comes from the tap!

The point being that washing in either cold, warm, or hot on the Normal cycle nowadays is essentially all the same temp on the EnergyStar, temp-restricted, dumbed-down machines now on the market.

Getting "real" warm or hot temp requires a more aggressive cycle such as Heavy Duty, Allergy, or Sanitary (with onboard water heating).

My linens and towels all say to either wash in cold or warm and some even say to wash on delicate. In the past I’ve washed towels on hot and the fibers became shriveled and rough. My sheets looked different as well.

I wash most of my clothes on cold delicate with Forever New or Zum laundry so the elastics don’t get ruined.

I wash my kitchen towels on hot though!!!

How are you all able to use warm and hot in normal cycles for so many things with great results? I’m not sure if my culprit is the cycle or the temperature, but I’ve ruined so many things that I err on the safe side. I would love to hear some of your insight on this!

Towels: It isn't just you. Rough towels are discussed here frequently, and there are various solutions. I don't remember the details because rough towels don't bother me.

Sheets: In what way do they look different, and after how many hot washes? I wash sheets at 120 degrees Fahrenheit, and haven't noticed any problems.

Kitchen towels: The edges of my kitchen towels get puckered from washing at 160F.

Elastic: I've had no problem with elastic on fitted sheets washed at 120F. Elastic on briefs is fine too, despite washing at 140F. Elastic on socks washed at 105F is also ok. It wouldn't even occur to me that there'd be a problem at that temperature, basically body temp.

What kind of washing machine are you using, and how hot is your hot water supply? What detergent and other products do you use?

Building: don't forget that the quality of your clothing and linens will probably be different than other users. Personally, I respect the label - if I spend good money on something and it says to 'wash in cold water' then that's what I'm gonna do. When the item is well-used and in need of resuscitation, I'll go off-label with hot or bleach or whatever. Towels can usually take a hot water wash and a little fabric softener doesn't hurt. In the dryer, I use both dryer balls and a dryer sheet. The plastic dryer balls really do fluff up the towels and the dryer sheet gives them a nice fragrance. For the bath, I use Fieldcrest Royal Velvet or Wamsutta bath sheets and hand towels. For the kitchen, I use bar wipes.

Moroseaz, I love using bar wipes for the kitchen. I use them as hand towels too and think they are the perfect size. I've heard of dryer balls but have never used them.

SuburbanMD ( that is where I'm from!), Many years ago, I was told to use Forever New on intimates because enzymes eat the elastic. I just assumed that holds true for jeans with stretch, yoga pants etc.

How do you know what temp you are using?

My bedding and towels are actually nicer than my clothes, so maybe they really do need special care. The hot water shrunk the cotton sheets of one brand, it made another brand's towel a little rough, and the blanket and towel from another brand weren't soft anymore. I can't really be sure if it was the water temp or the dryer because I am afraid to do too much experimenting.

Some of the regulars here (they know who they are) have refined and expensive tastes in linens, but wouldn't dream of washing anything in cold. I think their tricks include using special detergents. Hopefully one of them will chime in.

I know what wash temperature I'm using because I set it on my washer's control panel. That most likely isn't the case for you. If you post your washer's brand and model number, what cycles you use, and what your domestic water heater is set to, someone here might be able to estimate your wash temperatures.

CATS..hi, I wash all of my bed sheets and pillowcases in hot 150+F with no issues, but my sheets are all vintage 100% cotton percale. Detergent choices haven't made a difference, I use what I'm in the mood for.

I know 100% cotton or real linen can handle a certain amount of heat. Its when you get into blends like poly/cotton or all poly that problems can rear its head, like pilling.

Towels are a different story, I wash my towels at about 135..140F and I spin them at a medium spin cycle any faster and they won't be soft and fluffy. Kitchen towels do get the high temps. Watch your spin speed as it can affect softness.

Years ago washing directions for all cotton sheets and towels said to wash in hot, chlorine bleach if needed...modern days it says wash in cold. I believe that is to cover the manufactures rear.

I personally won't use a sheet that I can't wash in hot or at least very warm water. Body oil can't, won't, does not wash out of fibers in cold or cool water. I know some people routinely wash bedding in cold/cool..I can't figure it out. May as well run the dishwasher on cold also.

Sometimes people get caught between having clean textiles and wanting them to last..I think the only way to do this is buy good high quality ., wash in hot or very warm and hope for the best. Textiles just arnt like they used to be. But I'm not sleeping in cold washed bedding.

Another thing I've noticed is people that will not use warm or hot but have no problem putting the stuff in a dryer that often is hotter than a hot wash.

Forever New is one of my favorates. It will take good care of elastics.

"Another thing I've noticed is people that will not use warm or hot but
have no problem putting the stuff in a dryer that often is hotter than a
hot wash."

Dryers typically reach 150°F to 165°F on high temp. Each successively-lower temp selection usually drops by 10°F. Those are the air temperatures targeted by the control thermostats. Moisture evaporating from the clothes keeps their surface temp lower for most of the cycle, clothes temp increases toward the end before the cool down.

Building: bar wipes used for kitchen hand towels here, too. Perfect size, can take many hot water/bleach washings and purchase price is right. Anymore they also come in several colors instead of just white. Personally, I think they take longer to transition to rags. They just don't make good dust cloths, IMHO.

I still believe that your best course of action is to follow label instructions. I wouldn't dream of washing my spandex in anything but cold water... same with anything I wouldn't put in the dryer. I also tend to toss, repurpose, retire or donate clothes and bedding that I get tired of - usually within 5-10 years. I've still got pillowcases from 30 years ago I use regularly but the sheets are long-gone.

I have some bar mops/ towels that Tideman sent me, think he said they came from Costco, too bad Idon't have a Costco as these are the best I have ever used. Soft fluffy and very absorbant..Love them.

Thank You again Tideman.

Following label instructions doesn't necessarily mean that if the care label says cold, then you set your washer to cold. Cold on the care label means no higher than 85F. In the energy-saving washers common today, warm may give you an 85F wash. If so then setting the washer to warm will conform to the care label. Using the cold setting, perhaps 60F, still conforms to the label because it's less than 85F, but it won't do as good a job.

Hi, CATS! Since becoming active here and buying a SQ FL I have learned to wash even my Sferra, Frette & Scandia linens on hot. Water heater is set on 140 (no onboard heater) and I draw the water up to the laundry sink before starting. Vast improvement! All towels on hot for me. I don't buy expensive clothes, so I am less careful with those. Rarely wear spandex or, God help me, exercise clothes.

I "have refined and expensive tastes in linens." I wash them and most things on sanitize. That includes the Frette, Dea, etc.

I do have a couple of garments that have to be washed in cold water, but my general attitude is that if it doesn't have to be dry cleaned it had better stand up to really hot water.

MamaPinky, eureka, I didn’t know spin speeds affect softness. I can’t believe how much there is to know about laundry!!!! I'll have to start stalking this forum!! I’ve heard higher spins hurt fabric.. but then I’ve also heard higher spins are better because the dryers hurt fabric, and if you’ve spun it well, you don’t need to dry it as long. My head is spinning (pun intended!). Glad to know you like Forever New.. I never read much about it so had wondered if I should be switching. I buy their unscented version.

SuburbanMD, Thanks! I never knew warm water wash could actually be cold.

I am about to move and will have a different w/d, so I won’t waste everyone’s time by getting advice on the settings. Good idea though!

What do you all think about enzymes? In the olden days (insert pic of me in my shawl and rocker), lingerie stores used to always recommended Forever New because enzymes in other detergents break down elastic. Mama pinky gives it the thumbs up too! Am I making my other clothes last longer by not using enzymes or are they only bad for elastics? Is it better to use enzymes or warm water?

BTW, my sheets are Sferra Giza or SDH Legna (not silk but feels like it). I like Abyss towels. The Matouk towels were to die for at the beginning but they roughed up quickly. And like you MizzLizzy, my clothes are nothing like my linens!!!

CATS, I'd also like more info on enzymes and how it effects clothes vs hot water.

Enduring (and Littlegreeny!), I did a search on enzymes and see many of you have been posting about this for years :)

Below is a post from Livebetter. LB had read not to use enzymes on fine cottons .. I didn't see any comments on anyone disagreeing. ?

On rare occasions, I've had some linens yellow and a couple of white shirts. Is this from anything I'm doing? I never use bleach.

I assume oxygen bleach is safe on everything?

livebetter

These are the typical enzymes and the type of soil they break down to simpler forms for removal by detergent:

Amylase (starch soils)
Lipase (fatty and oily soils)
Protease (protein soils)
Cellulase (reduces pilling and greying of fabrics containing cotton and helps remove particulate soils)

I have not read that they will âÂÂdamageâ cotton. They will damage wool/silk as wool/silk are made up of proteins and enzymes attack proteins. Enzyme detergent cannot differentiate between a bit of egg stain and a bit of silk so the enzymes will eat away at it.

I have read several places where they say not to use an enzyme detergent for fine cottons like Egyptian and Pima (particularly sheets/towels).

I personally think an enzyme detergent is only necessary when the laundry warrants it. If it does not contain the above types of stains why would you need them? ItâÂÂs over kill in my mind.

I use a mild detergent without enzymes or brighteners on my fine sheets and towels (Vaska Herbatergent).

I also use oxygen bleach when needed to keep them white. Never use chlorine bleach as this will destroy the fibres over time.

@CATS, So all the text below the Livebetter link you placed above is the post she had made? I went to the link and only found her main page in Houzz. So I am assuming the text is her text and you copied it here for us. It is interesting and thanks very much for doing this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzyme

IMHO Enzymes are not going to damage elastic. Unless the elastic is made from wool or silk LOL. Elastic will however suffer damage from hot water and chlorine bleach. Many of us like to wash underpants and socks in hot water but it will eventually take its toll on elastic, I'd say sooner rather than later. ..chlorine is another that damages elastic. For those that wash bedding in screaming hot water, me included here, are going to notice the elastic in the fitted sheet won't last the lifetime of the cotton fabric itself.

CATS...I found out about spin speeds several months ago when I got my first FL..I spun my towels out on High 1400 rpm's..my white towels cameout of the washer very dry, rough. I figured the dryer would fluff them up, I always dry on my Less dry cycle..but no they were no longer soft and fluffy..they were flat and rough. I did what any normal adult woman would do, I cried. Than I played around and turned my spin speed down to medium and that solved my problem.

I agree heat damages elastic, especially heat from a dryer.

The only enzyme that would damage cotton would be cellulase. It's put in detergents to prevent piling and for particulate soils but I can't help but think it's slowly causing the weakening of the fibers and eventually, the fabric itself.

I recall a version of Cheer (?) that was touted as helping prevent fabric pilling and fuzzies ... which the consumer didn't realize targeted enzymes were slowly "chewing" at the fabric in that respect.

Enduring, yes, all that information was from livesbetter (I did a cut and paste).

So, I'm confused again. If enzymes don't attack elastic, why do do all the lingerie shops recommend special detergent for your bras? Forever New etc. I thought elastics were the whole reason, but maybe there is something else too? Why do people love LeBlanc? What does it do for sheets and towels? I guess I always just assumed these types were enzyme free so extra gentle

Mama P, never will I use high spin on anything again!

Do we think it's gentle on fabric to use enzymes or warmer water to get them clean?

I usually dry in delicate so things don't get too hot. In my current Whirlpool Duets though, delicate drys them to death. New rental next month has a mini Miele set which I'm looking forward to try.

CATS, You wont think the miele is so mini once you get to using it. I can fit 5 pairs of jeans in mine. I would fit 6 pair in my old school top loader Maytag. I can wash a queen sized medium loft down comforter in it. Its a tight fit, but works. King sized comforter is too big for the Miele, which is really a standard euro sized machine.

I am wondering if enzymes would harm latex elastic, since latex is made from plant sap. The modern elastics are all petro based I believe.

Complete Rubbish to recommend cold water washes only. That is the exact advice my wife got when we got our first front loader in 2000. By 2004 we had a horrible mess in between the drums. Consumer reports needs to get someone QUALIFIED to give advice. Ill never do cold wash only ever again.

I have got to start checking in more often! In the winter, my cold water is in the 40 degree range. And that AINT(pardon my grammer) gonna get ANYTHING clean! With the 70 to 30 mix in my Speed Queen, warm is really slightly above cool. It takes heat to get things clean, granted, it doesn't have to be really high heat in some circumstances but it does take heat. A good detergent helps, but as someone mentioned above, no detergent is going to deep clean, oils and dirt in cold water. Now the odors can be masked with high doses of FS and scent beads but sooner or later the funk will rear it's ugly head.

@ dadoes, I remember that Tide Total Care was touted to prevent pills and faded looking garments. That was all I used in my Bosch. Used to think that cellulase was a good thing, but now am rethinking that. I believe that Cheer does contain it, the liquid version, according to the P&G site.