mcnastarana, is your St Cecilia own root?

Roses have been made obsolete from commerce since forever. BUT DA are ACTIVELY pursuing a policy of planned obsolescence by using their trademark and reseller licensing rights. I find this immoral though perfectly within their legal rights.. I hope this may, in the future, come back to haunt them. There will be NO DA historic roses. DA, the company, want their roses to be treated as commodities or, even worse, consumables and themselves treat them as if they are toasters. David Austin the person may go down in history as an influential breeder, mainly due to his concept not his roses, but DA Roses Ltd. will not..

You can lose a trademark by abandonment.
Loss of Trademark fact sheet

As I understand it, you need to continue selling a product with that name to keep a trademark. Nor do others have to wait until the trademark expiration date if the trademark is obviously abandoned.

Plant patents are much different from trademarks--with a patent you can stop people from using your invention, even if you have no intention of using it. But, you can't renew a patent, so people can eventually use your invention. On the other hand, you can renew a trademark, so you can keep using that name as long as you use the trademark and pay the renewal fees.

Just a heads-up to anyone calling 'The Prince' a wimp own-root -- mine reached 6' tall by season's end in 2015, 2 years after coming as a band. And yes, I'm certain I don't have the wrong rose.

I'll be sure to take pictures this year.

:-)

~Christopher

Yes, my St. Cecelia is own root, from Longago Roses. So far, it hasn't done much.

Interesting, when you mentioned it might be better in a warmer climate, I had to wonder if it's one of those roses that does better grafted in a cold zone. Mine are grafted three year olds. They grew vigorously to a height of about 4' in the first year and have remained about that size. They're sturdy plants and have held up pretty well in the winter, unprotected.

Given that many nurseries that may carry the discontinued varieties are unlikely to offer grafted plants, this is something to consider.

Even before I knew this I sensed it. I had Lilian Austin and Mary Magdeline on my list for spring before I couldn't get them any more. If anyone knows where to still find Lilian or another great older one called Blythe Spirit, please let me know.

Longago Roses used to carry Lilian Austin. You might email Linda and see if she has one available. She's great to work with, produces great band-size plants. Her email is Roses@longagoroses.com

John

Christopher, did u get any pics of The Prince? How did it do for you this year? I'm thinking of getting that one own root and keeping it in a lg pot.

I'm still trying to get Belle Story

I have Lilian Austin. Not sure if I can get it to root but I can try.

Many of these rose's can be had from K&M Nursery. I know The Prince makes a great rose grafted on fortuniana root stock. I had 2 when I lived in FL. 5'x4' bush's that produced beautiful blooms constantly. I will be introducing 2 into my garden this spring. They should do great up here.

I recently bought a Wenlock own root band, mainly for old time's sake because I grew it 20 years ago in another state and hadn't seen it in years. It is blooming, still in the band, and what a bloom and fragrance! It rivals many of Austin's currently popular deep red roses. I'm glad I bought it.

There is an individual from Nashville, TN, who is in the process of starting a new nursery, which will be offering, among other things, rare roses, including many of the older Austin roses. Her website is up: www.restorationroses.com .

Although she is rooting roses now, she has not yet listed the roses she has for sale. I think most will be own-root, but she may be also offering grafted rose, using Paul Barden's 'Mel's Heritage' as rootstock. Perhaps she will be able to provide plants of the early gems of Austin's program that are no longer available from other sources. I have emailed her to get a list of what she has available, but she has not yet responded. I am sure that she is very busy getting her nursery established.

I emailed her too, no response yet. She must be busy, I wish her good luck for starting a nursery.

I've also tried to get in touch with her, and no response. Sounds like it will be wonderful if and when she gets it up and running. She will have a built-in customer base from this forum alone. I wish she would post an estimated time of opening on her website.

John, thanks for the info. I signed up for the newsletter.

You're welcome!

John, thanks for that information. I will definitely sign up for the newsletter, too. We had a big discussion a while back on the Antique Roses Forum concerning Austins and discontinued Austins. Evelyn is being discontinued as far as I know, and Abe Darby is being considered for discontinuation, according to some. These are off patent roses now.

Some Pics of The Prince

where I live, these roses are possibly all dogs so no real love lost there. A local nursery carries Austin, with labels claiming they are "easy to grow roses." Carding Mill looking really tempting. It is a naked money grab. Here, Carding Mill is naked after June, all season long.

I sent Susan some cuttings as did many other people. I wish her the best in her new business.

I just really don't understand what the incentive is to discontinue any rose unless no one has ever liked it ever. Wouldn't they want more and more people to enjoy it forever?

I love the few Austin roses that I have but I better not get emotionally attached to those or any I may acquire should they end up lost to me forever.

Wow! They’re all beautiful, but’Emanuel’is my favorite! It reminds me a little of Abraham Darby and Evelyn. Beautiful! Lisa

What a beautiful rose! Where can I find one?

Hortico sometimes has Emmanuelle (1985). It is ridiculous, but “Emanuel” is also a synonym for Crocus Rose (2000).

Oh romogen, those are beautiful too! I can’t find them, they are on my list too.

@summersrhythm I can’t recommend this resource enough to track down rare roses. Every rose lover should definitely get a copy!

http://www.combinedroselist.com/

Thanks romogen! Since you have a lot of rare roses, you could just open a nursery and we order from you. :-)

COUNTRY LIVING

Summersrhythm has a point lol

john_ca..that link to restoration roses looks like a cut flower farm not a plant nursery.

I'm curious about Restoration Roses, too. I think she started out primarily as an OGR and rare rose nursery, then changed somewhere along the way to a cut flower farm. I sent for their own root plant list, never heard back, then saw that she is providing roses to florists for weddings and such. She is very hard to get in touch with, but very personable when she does reply. Somewhat new, probably still feeling their way forward.

Romogen, are you john_ca?? Please send some cuttings to Hortico, do a good deed for all the rose lovers here. :-) I know John has done many good deeds before to save the rare roses.

I am not john_ca, but we do email each other about roses & tomatoes.

I have been advised to only consider starting a nursery business if I ever achieve a 90% propagation success rate ;-)

CLAIRE ROSE

(ignore the mislabeled Winchester Cathedral sign below it)

Thanks romogen!

Romogen, I've had a DA rose for about 15 years that bloomed for the first time last year. I'd been calling it Cottage Rose. However, it might be Country Living now that I've seen your photo. Could you give a go at identifying it if I post a photo? I believe you are the Austin retired roses specialist among us.

I will try to ID it if you post pictures. Please include an image of the leaves, thorns, whole plant for growth architecture, and closed buds/sepals if possible.

I recently got Heritage under the name of "Josephine Land" from Nelson's on R. fortuniana. If it weren't for searches on these discussion boards I wouldn't have known she was an Austin. She is glorious with very fragrant, full, large palest pink booms and her foliage is also beautiful: very dark green and glossy.

I have been searching long and hard for extremely fragrant roses that will do well in my area. They are hard to find. But I did find one site (not a vendor site) sorting them by fragrance that seemed to me more accurate based on my experience. It seemed that 2 out of 3 of the most fragrant on that list were Austins.

I believe this is why they are so popular. They stay a reasonable size and they look great but the clincher is usually the knockout scent.

I think it's a real shame that these beauties will be hard to find without a lot of detective work.

Romogen, I am sorry to say I only have one photo of my Country Living/Cottage Rose, so that doesn't give you much to go on. It's about 3' high and wide. It's definitely a shrub shape. The blooms are a good 4" across and it had a very nice, but not strong, fragrance. I have no idea why it took 15 years to produce a bloom, but it was big and beautiful, and the blooms that followed were just as nice, though there were not many. I'm guessing from your description of the two that mine is Country Living. I would never have thought of that rose had I not seen it here. I apologize for not having more to show you. I assume it is off patent, so I plan to take some cuttings. HMF doesn't rate it very highly, but the bloom was nice. I appreciate any input from you - or anyone else.

I have been corresponding with Susan at Restoration Roses and will be sending her a new shipment of cuttings and rooted cuttings for a number of rare Austin roses in which she has expressed interest, this month. She is selling cut roses for now and will have some roses to sell this season, but is waiting to allow her rose plants to size up. Ultimately, I believe that her business will be selling both cut flowers and own root rose plants.

She wants to offer a quality product to her customers and not just barely rooted cuttings. Hurricane Harvey apparently had a devastating effect on her program and set her back a bit. Her growing season is a lot shorter than what we have here in CA but she is doing the best that she can. It takes a while to establish your "mother plants" (those from which you take cuttings to propagate your crop) and then grow a crop of rooted plants of commercial size.

John, thanks a ton for all your good deeds! You are going to be a rose saint! Would you please send some cuttings to Hortico too? :-)

Hey @john_ca I know this is an old post, but I was wondering if you had any cuttings of Prospero that you would be willing to trade or I could purchase? It doesn't seem to be available anywhere in the country now. I'm in Portland. Would be happy to compensate generously for the trouble.

Since this thread is up again, I will take the opportunity to say that my Country Living rose, photo upthread - the one that took 15 years to bloom - had a great year, but the two following years have been dismal. It had more blooms this year, but they were half the size and the plant is so misshapen, it's downright ugly. So, she fizzled out and will be removed this season and replaced with another Austin. I did not take cuttings as I had planned. I think she would be a disappointment.

Lilian Austin smelled better than Abe Darby at rose park, plus Lilian Austin has a nicer & deep pink color. Lilian Austin was much bigger than Abe as grafted I killed my Lilian Austin (own-root) since it poked me with its needle-like thorns. My Lilian as own-root was 1/4 the size of Lilian grafted at rose park.

Here's the list David Austin roses' year of introduction. The patent expires 20 years after the year listed below:

1963 : Constance Spry

1967 : Chianti

1968 : Shropshire Lass, Scintillation

1969 : Wife of Bath, Canterbury, Dame Prudence, The Friar, The Knight, The Prioress, The Yeoman

1970 : Chaucer, The Miller

1973 : Charles Austin, Lilian Austin, Red Coat

1974 : Glastonbury

1977 : The Squire

1979 : The Countryman, The Reeve

1982 : Admired Miranda, Charmian, Fair Bianca, Hero, Leander, Prospero, Proud Titania, Wise Portia

1983 : Graham Thomas, Mary Rose, Cressida, Cymbaline, Jaquenetta, Lordly Oberon, Lucetta, Moonbeam, Perdita, Pretty Jessica, Sir Clough, Tamora, Troilus

1984 : Belle Story, Bredon, Dove, Ellen, Heritage, Hilda Murrell, Mary Webb, Wenlock, Windrush

1985 : Abraham Darby, Emanuel, Mountain Snow, Sir Walter Raleigh

1986 : Symphony, Claire Rose, English Garden, Gertrude Jekyll, Othello, Robbie Burns, Warwick Castle, Wild Flower

1987 : Doctor Jackson, Fisherman's Friend, St. Cecelia, Swan, The Nun, William Shakespeare

1988 : Charles Rennie Mackintosh, Financial Times Centenary, Francine Austin, Leonard Dudley Braithwaite, Potter and Moore, Queen Nefertiti, Snowdon, Winchester Cathedral.

1989 : Sharifa Asma, Sweet Juliet, Bibi Maizoon

1990 : Jayne Austin, Ambridge Rose, Brother Cadfael, Kathryn Morley, Lilac Rose, Peach Blossom, The Prince

1991 : Bow Bells, Evelyn, Cottage Rose, Country Living, The Dark Lady, The Pilgrim

1992 : Sir Edward Elgar, Emily, Glamis Castle, Golden Celebration, Immortal Juno, Redouté , The Alexandra Rose, Tradescant

1993 : Happy Child, Mrs. Doreen Pike, Radio Times, St. Swithun, Proud Bride

1994 : Charlotte, Eglantyne, John Clare, Molineux, The Herbalist

1995 : Pat Austin, Noble Anthony, Jude the Obscure, Pegasus, English Elegance, Heavenly Rosalind

1996 : Morning mist

1997 : Tess of the D'Urbervilles, Sophy's Rose, Scepter'd Isle, Ann, Trevor Griffith, Barbara Austin, Charity, Geoff Hamilton, Mayor Of Casterbridge, Heather Austin, Mistress Quickly, A Shropshire Lad, Snow Goose, Marinette, Rushing Stream, Windflower

1998 : Buttercup, Dr. Herbert Gray, Mary Magdalene, William Morris, Teasing Georgia

1999 : Falstaff, Anne Boleyn, Blythe Spirit, Portmeiron

2000 : Crocus Rose (Syn Emanuel) , William Shakespeare 2000, Crown Princess Margareta, Cordelia, Miss Alice, James Galway, Malvern Hills, Ludlow Castle (syn. England's Rose)

2001 : Benjamin Britten, Alnwick Castle, Charles Darwin, Comtes des Champagne, Corvedale, Grace, The Mayflower

2002 : Christopher Marlowe, Jubilee Celebration, Lochinvar, Mortimer Sackler, Spirit of Freedom, The Generous Gardener

2003 : Janet, Rose-Marie, Scarborough Fair, Wildeve

2004 : Queen of Sweden, Harlow Carr, Rose of Picardy, Rosemoor, Hyde Hall, St. Alban, Wisley, The Ingenious Mr.Fairchild, Carding Mill

2005 : Wild Edric, Summer Song, Gentle Hermione, Darcey Bussell, Lady Emma Hamilton, The Endeavour

2006 : Sister Elizabeth, Strawberry Hill, Tea Clipper, Lichfield Angel, Windermere

2007 : Skylark, Port Sunlight, Munstead Wood, Claire Austin, Princess Alexandra of Kent, Bishop's Castle, The Shepardess, Alan Titchmarch, Lady of Megginch

2008 : Sir John Betjeman, Wisley 2008, Young Lycidas

2009 : The Wedgewood Rose, Kew Gardens, Lady of Shalott, Tam O'Shanter

2010 : Maid Marion, Cariad, Englands Rose, Princess Anne, Susan Williams-Ellis, The Lady's Blush

2011 : Fighting Temeraire, Lady Salisbury, William and Katherine, Queen Anne, Wollerton Old Hall

2012 : Heathcliff, Tranquillity, Boscobel, Royal Jubilee, The Lark Ascending

2013 : Carolyn Knight, The Albrighton Rambler, The Lady Gardener, Thomas`a Becket

2014 : Olivia Rose Austin, The Lady of the Lake, The Poet's Wife

2015 : Desdemona, Sir Walter Scott, The Ancient Mariner

2016 : Bathsheba, Imogen, Roald Dahl

2017 : James L. Austin, Dame Judi Dench, Vanessa Bell

2018 : Emily Bronte, The Mill on the Floss, Tottering-on-Gently

2019 : Eustacia Vue, Gabriel Oak

2020: Silas Marner, The Country Parson

2021: Nye Bevan