I wish those who think they have a problem, actually get tested. My DD did not but decided to go the gluten-free route. It wouldn't be so bad if she wasn't also a vegetarian. This can be a serious issue while traveling. She lives in the city and is spoiled by all the catering of diets and choices.

But, she will be going overseas and her diet will be severely limited. it worries me.

Sounds like this guy can't make up his mind! My DD does not have celiac disease but she does have Hashimoto's Disease. An auto immune disease. Her doctor took her off gluten and carbs and she has lost over 40 lbs since the end of August. She feels horrible if she eats anything with gluten. Everybody is different. While gluten may not be a problem for one person it could have horrible side effects for another.

Thank you all. I def get bloated, not a paralyzingly condition but enough that I can tell the diff.

@grainlady, yes it was expensive. From this discussion I glean it is better for me to do w/o bread altogether and indulge on a GF muffin once in a blue moon

I have had chronic inflammation with severe arthritis since I was 13-years old (now 63), along with carpal tunnel and tennis elbow in both arms from decades of doing knitting/crocheting professionally. I have been treated by several physicians for my conditions, but I avoid taking Rx medications, so I self-treat with alternative methods. After someone mentioned the book "Wheat Belly" over at the Cooking group, I checked it out from the library - and as they say, the rest is history.

I did all the so-called "healthy" things, including making all our breads and baked goods using freshly-milled wholegrain flour, naturally leavened breads (aka sourdough), eating basically a whole foods diet. Sticking to a low-glycemic diet since the 1990's because diabetes is rampant in hubby's family. Left the "bad stuff" at the store, grew what we could ourselves. I saw some improvement when I started using coconut flour and almond flour - low-carb options that are also gluten-free options, but didn't connect it to reducing wheat from my diet.

When I went gluten-free, all my symptoms of inflammation went away. After 3-months of being gluten-free, as a test, I had a hamburger with a homemade 100% wheat bun on Friday, a flour tortilla on Saturday, and by Sunday I was all but disabled and on OTC pain medication due to inflammation. It was like I'd been run over by a steam roller.

After being gluten-free, I am once again able to spend long sessions doing hand work (instead of limiting it to 15-20 a day or every other day), and as an added bonus, I was able to walk barefoot without hobbling since my feet were affected with inflammation for years, and I couldn't walk without shoes/slippers on my feet.

I really don't care what anyone says, PERIOD. I'm my own scientific proof - whether it's in my head or elsewhere - I'll take it! 50-years of suffering is long enough. My mother had celiac disease, so me thinks the apple doth not fall far from the tree! My sister and her daughter all turned around a plethora of health issues, including gut issues and severe arthritis, when they stopped eating gluten. Go figure....

-Grainlady

ellendi, it is totally possible to get vegetarian and gluten free meals outside the US.

If someone without a specific health issue generally avoids eating certain foods be it bread, sugar, meat, or whatever of course they may feel a sense of fullness or indigestion when they do eat those things. The body adapts to the diet it becomes used to. Doesn't mean the food is bad for you or harming you. Just that you digestive tract is not accustomed to it. But I know I may as well be writing to myself. People will do what they believe. If it helps them even psychologically who am I to tell them what to eat.

First time I heard about gluten free was in Europe about 3 yrs before it becoming s buzz word in usa. Wheat belly-perfect term

Watchmelol, I think most people live with slight discomfort b/c they live with the bad habit so automatically, that living with discomfort becomes normal. On the one day they don't eat or smoke or whatever, they feel like $$$ and consider it a "lucky" day, never relating NO bad habit/practice to wellbeing. I'm not sure that I agree with your notion of "not being used to something will naturally upset you". In some cases yes, But not the rule. I have a friend with severe RA that vastly modified her diet and her RA became like 80% better. She was pretty close to being wheelchair bound and today she hikes, I witnessed her transformation.

As a long-time consumer of a 'special diet' for preference instead of physical inhibition (vegetarianism and vegan-ism,) I say... eat what you want, just do your best to limit the vast majority of your foods to healthy choices.

If you 'feel better' staying away from wheat or gluten-containing foods, then by all means, do so... It doesn't really matter if it's psychological in nature, it only really matters if there's a physical component. Personally, I get a kick out of people who avoid gluten out of the 'fad', but I also see the benefit to the truly gluten sensitive in the population. Choices have ballooned, and this is a good outcome. People on 'special' diets have long had problems under the profit-oriented food industry and their marketing departments. Taste and economies of scale are far more important to profits than is nutrition.

There are many foods that I find unhealthy for the human body - as well as their production being less-than-ideal for the environment in which are bodies exist. Many of these conditions are far outside of our purview. What we eat though, is within our ability to affect outcome. It sounds simple enough, but... not always lol. When I live alone, I don't even buy potato chips. I can't stop! Before I know it, the bag is gone!

I don't think gluten-free necessarily means higher calories. Besides, even the term higher-calories is 'loaded'. A calorie can be found in a nutritious choice, or it can be empty. The idea is too simplistic.

rgreen, for someone who doesn't want to debate dietary choices, you sure talk about it a lot :P :)

Gluten free does NOT need to be high caloric. I eat LOW gluten, because I don't want to develop a sensitivity. I also quit Denny's a couple years ago on/from the rare occasions I stopped there. Have to say this wasn't over calories or health food -- they stopped serving real chicken wings, the only food I actually liked there, taste-wise. No, those were not remotely healthy, either. But to get back to the question -- gluten-free does not increase caloric intake if you buy and cook most of your food at home. And it can certainly be just as healthy, if not more so, since the gluten is gone.

Lol... true Peter, but the other thread wasn't the place. That was a totally separate subject that went on a limited tangent due to a question asked. This topic is closer to dietary choices than the thread on meal ideas for a gathering. Besides, talking about it isn't debating it per se.

The comment I made above draws on nearly 30 years of 'alternative' diet choice. Gluten-free is not new at all. However, it is fairly new (although the fad is beginning to fade a bit now) to the supermarket consumer. Thirty years ago, spelt was all the rage among health store shoppers. Back then though, if you had a reasonably-priced health store within a 2 hour drive, you were fortunate.

Soy milk only came in vacuum-packed shelf stable packaging, and I thought it was 'the bomb' when I first saw soy-cheese and rice milk ice cream! I still don't have them here where I live now.

Spelt, quinoa, and amaranth is now available in every supermarket. Back then, even health food stores rarely carried them, and if they did, affording just a sample was $5! Pearled barley wasn't even available in many supermarkets.I still can't buy whole barley in my local supermarket. Thankfully, a Seventh Day Adventist has opened a shop in town. I can now get wild rice, whole barley, and even rye groats at decent prices. Problem is, that few people are shopping there, and it may not last.

And the only way to get bulk years ago was to belong to a co-op. They were only in a few towns and in some, you had to go in with someone, or place a fairly large order for membership. Now, you can order over that new fangled thingy... what's it called? Oh yeah... the internet lol... But that's now hurting the co-ops and their (sometimes) wholesale pricing.

So, to briefly answer your question from the other thread here - where it is still not exactly on topic... eat what you want, but personal health is not - for me- the only consideration. I became a vegan for environmental issues, not health. I only learned about the health benefits after experiencing them first hand.

Six months after becoming vegetarian, a problem I was having immediately cured itself. When I was growing up, we ate mostly meat and veggies from a can. Since that time, my mother has learned to cook; but back then, meatloaf, cheap steaks, and hamburger with a side of french fries, baked potato, or a can of peas and carrots were our staples. We were very poor, but my granddad who was a gardener died young. No one carried on the tradition.

When I became a vegan at 24, the first benefit I noticed was upon waking. Before that time, I had trouble waking up. I would sluggishly awaken, sit on the edge of the bed for a minute or 2, then get up. Within a month of quitting meat and dairy, I was waking completely fresh and hopping out of bed in the morning fully energized!

Next... when I was 18, I began to have prostrate problems. Nothing serious, just couldn't urinate easily. The prostrate problem completely disappeared within those first 6 months of being vegan. There were other benefits... my skin seemed healthier, and I had a lot more energy.

At the core though, wasn't, and still isn't health. It also wasn't a worship-like concern for animals or animal-centric advocacy. It is putting my energies behind life - ALL life. I learned the science behind the basics of eating. I have even given speeches around the country on college campuses, state capitals, and city park events on environmental issues as well as on how diet choices affect the world in which we live. You live in Upstate New York. Close to you, I've given talks at New Paltz, and Ulster County Community College. I've helped at events in Syracuse, and was on television news giving a talk at the Albany State Capital Building.

Things have changed a bit since those times, but one thing stays the same... life vs, death. Adding to the conditions which support life, and negating those conditions. In both the macro, and the microcosm of our individual choices we can add or subtract. Each choice is road we choose to follow that leads in a direction. Do I sometimes, for whatever reason I personally choose as important (like pleasing my mother for eating a cake made with eggs) take detours? Yes, I sure do... but each choice is fairly well decided upon. Is there room for improvement? Yep. There certainly is! However, I do not take these choices as lightly as you seemed to recommend in your comment to me in the other thread.

True, sometimes it is difficult to get the complete gist the motivation and intent within a written forum, but just as many of whom who have chosen to go gluten-free, my choices are deeply personal, and are not lightly taken. Often times, I no longer really care to go into serious discussions over these issues because I have been there and done that many, MANY times.

I was very militant in my youthful beliefs and practices. Now I have become a Christian, and while my passions still often come to the surface, I have learned that dropping seeds for people to pick up is usually a more effective method than forceful planting in arid minds. Every now and again, I still find people who do not accept when I simply state my own opinions. If they challenge me, and feel it appropriate, I may take the challenge. Other times... it's just not worth my effort.

I apologize for writing a book, and sorry that these things are not strictly on topic. Feel free to castigate me (no, NOT castrate!) openly.

watchmelol, up until a year or so ago, my DH ate anything and everything, and suffered constantly from bloating and low-grade stomach discomfort. Then he found the FODMAP diet and started to follow that. He originally cut out all the foods it recommended avoiding, including gluten and lactose. Immediately the bloating and discomfort went away. From time to time he tests various foods on the "avoid" list to see how they affect him. Some of them are OK, but others cause immediate bloating and discomfort. Gluten and lactose, garlic and onions are guaranteed to have a bloating effect on him. My cooking style has had to change a lot.

So it's not a case of being sensitive to foods eaten rarely, as we ate those foods all the time and DH was unwell from eating them.

I seem to be the same as Grainlady - arthritis/joint pain since my teens with psoriasis and other autoimmune conditions and since going gluten free, along with eliminating cow dairy, tomatoes, oranges, most processed foods and high grain items have been symptom free for five years now. In Canada, if you don't present classically of Celiac, they don't test you so I don't know if I have it or not as I never had intestinal issues - just everything else, lucky me. I haven't gained weight since going gluten free. I didn't need to lose any either. If I didn't try it, I wouldn't have believed it and kept on my non-working meds. I am happy of the "trend" as I get options when I need them. Oh yeah, I also got over my fear of fat. I used to follow the pyramid with low fat and lots of whole grains.

cookie8 - can I ask why you cut-out high grain items? or are those high grain wheat items or all grain items.

They create joint pain for me. The only grains I seem to handle are basmati rice and starches from potato or tapioca. I can have certain gluten free items by certain brand names but not all. I do okay with seeds - flax and pumpkin so I use those in place of flour. It has taken me a very long time to figure out what I do well with.

Cookie8-

I just did a 10-Day Grain Detox and now I'll slowly start back on some pseudo-grains and seeds. I'm going to try not to consume so much corn, and make sure the corn I use is blue sprouted corn, and I was relying on too much oatmeal/oat groats, and will try to use more of the seeds like chia, flax, quinoa, hemp, teff, buckwheat, and amaranth - in strict rotation. No more than 2 servings a day. I think my knees will appreciate it ;-).

-Grainlady

Can we stop throwing around the word "gluten". Gluten (protein) is not the only component of wheat. In fact, in at least one recent study, the bloating/discomfort that was reported by some from eating wheat did not occur when eating pure wheat gluten, and has recently been speculated to be due to the carbohydrates. Only if you have celiac or an actual wheat allergy, has any symptoms you are experiencing been scientifically linked to gluten itself.

My bloating/IBS has been greatly relieved since I stopped wearing belts and switched to suspenders and no tight pants.

The FODMAP diet is extremely difficult to follow. I'd be happy to live with some bloating to enjoy garlic and onions; they are my favorite foods.

Not sure what to say rgreen. As you know I am also vegetarian. All I was trying to say before was... it really is impossible to exist, without causing any harm to anything. That is, sadly, just not how nature works. Thanks for the manifesto. :)

grainlady - I can't seem to eat oatmeal - even as a young'un my mom says I refused to eat it and as an adult it just doesn't seem to agree. Any suggestions for a substitute for a hot breakfast? (Keeping in mind that I won't be milling my own grains or flours :)

Can quinoa flakes be used as a substitute?

blfenton - look up noatmeal as an alternative.

Grainlady - I was eating too much corn too. I can't handle teff, quinoa or amaranth. I try to keep my servings of grain to one 1/2 cup a day or 1 piece of GF bread. Thank goodness I can do eggs - a great go to meal. And my knee (as only my right is affected) does appreciate it.

So, BossyVossy, not sure if it is strictly a gluten thing but do believe that certain foods can affect certain individuals.

"... it really is impossible to exist, without causing any harm to anything."

Agreed. Intent and motivation are very much determining factors when making decisions, and evaluating actions. However, for me, this is a fact of our current state of existence, not opportunity for an excuse.

As for the manifesto... yw. :-)

Gluten is protein. FODMAPs are specific types of carbohydrates. It just so happens that the grains that have gluten in them also have FODMAPs. A lot of people cut all gluten grains when they go low gluten, not just the gluten, so they're also cutting a lot of FODMAPs. People with FODMAP sensitivities often are sensitive to only one of the several kinds, or only to the way they occur in individual foods. An ultra low FODMAP diet for most people is an elimination diet. Something to do for about six weeks to heal the gut, then start adding back individual foods to see how they do. People with chronic illnesses that create difficulties in the gut sometimes benefit from sticking to a low FODMAP diet long term.

I have a friend in the last category. I've cooked all kinds of tasty low FODMAP foods. Yes, doing without onions is woeful, but I use parsnips, raddishes, and other sharp roots that are low FODMAP and it works fine. I've made spaghetti sauce, baba ganouj, chicken stock, pumpkin lasagna (made the ricotta from Lactaid milk), strawberry cake, quiche with crust, and a whole bunch of stuff I can't call to mind.

It is possible to be allergic to gluten without having Celiac disease. Some people get asthma like symptoms, for instance.

Bossyvossy, you might have a FODMAP problem or a gluten problem or a FODMAP problem, but either way, it's easy enough to cut them out. The harder part is finding satisfying replacements that aren't pure sugar. :) Do you have any issues with beans and legumes?

http://www.pamf.org/teen/life/bodyimage/orthorexia.html

I'm reminded of the recent snopes thread where someone said (paraphrasing here) that people will believe what they want to believe, regardless of the evidence presented to them.

I found it quite commendable that the scientist in the aforementioned article didn't rest on his laurels but instead conducted even more experiments and found that his early results were false.

Personal experiences are ALWAYS biased. If you truly believe that it helps, then by all means continue to follow said diet.

The psychological impact can NOT be understated!!

The mind is a powerful thing. If you truly believe eating something will make you sick, you WILL get sick when you consume it.

Reminds me of a study done several years ago to see if prayer works and the results were astonishing. Prayer DOES work......if you BELIEVE it works. In people who didn't believe in the power of prayer, they saw no improvement.

I can't help but think of a quote I've seen circulated, "do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine."

You don't have to believe that antibiotics cure infection or ibuprofen reduces inflammation, it works whether you believe it or not.

For the rest, if you have convinced your brain to have a reaction to certain things, so be it. But please don't tell everyone else that your non verifiable, nonreproducable expirience is scientific fact.

It is fact for you BECAUSE you believe it. If it can't be reproduced in a controlled environment then it is NOT a verified fact.

My sisters are caught up in the gluten free fad...my next youngest sister screamed and ran into the bathroom of Perkins (probably to puke) when she found that her meal might contain gluten. For the record, no one in my family has Celiac disease.

Anyway, to answer the original poster's question...yes, most gluten free store bought items have more fat and calories, in order to make the items more palatable. I read about this in one of my food magazines.

Growing up we had wonderful family dinners at our home and relative's homes. Everyone ate what they liked, no one had food sensitivities, everyone had a great time. Food was family. Food was love. Food was never something to be feared.

Today this is what life has become for so many: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX9EAavxrus

One thing for sure, it's not a one-size-fits-all thing....

-A general blood test will not necessarily show if you have a gluten sensitivity. There are 17 proteins in wheat and you could be sensitive to any one (or more) of them. The blood test only tests for the most common protein and skips the other 16. That's another reason why an elimination diet often gives more information than the blood tests. This happened with my niece with her blood test, so I suggested she ask if she was tested for only one protein, or all 17. The second test proved this theory when tested for all 17 proteins and showed a strong gluten sensitivity, but not Celiac disease.

-Gluten isn't just one thing, it's a group of proteins we lump together and call "gluten".

-Are the symptoms or condition from an allergy, hypersensitivity, intolerance, immunological reaction or non-immunological reaction? Believe it or not, my mother figured out she had Celiac disease by reading about it in an encyclopedia, not the ignorant physician she went to for a diagnosis and treatment. Not many people get the biopsy for a Celiac diagnosis, but successfully follow an elimination diet, and possibly some blood tests.

-There are any number of gut conditions affected by grains in general without having an allergy to them. Check out: IBS, FODMAP, DIBO, non-responsive celiac disease, food sensitivities, yeast over-growth, pancreas/gallbladder issues, low stomach acid, lectin intolerance, fructan/fructose intolerance, leaky gut, GI Infection..... It's a long list.

-Some people can digest grains better if they are sprouted or soaked first. I also soak and sprout nuts, then dehydrate them before eating them so they are easier to digest and have more available nutrition than unprocessed nuts. Any food high in phytic acid, including beans/grains/seeds/nuts can be easier to digest if soaked or sprouted first. Soaking amaranth will help leach out some of the bitterness. Grains/beans/nuts contain enzyme inhibitors, lectins, and phytic acid, which can cause digestive issues, especially for people who don't have a lot of enzymes left (from consuming too much cooked foods), or they need to take enzyme supplements to aid in digestion of all foods, especially those that are hard to digest like grains/seeds/beans/nuts. When you check traditional foods and early cookbooks, it appears humanity has soaked (as well as sprouted and fermented) many of the grains they consumed - unlike today where everything is made quickly for convenience. Even oatmeal once had instructions on the box to soak it overnight. Anyone on a diet that contains a lot of grains/seeds/beans/nuts would benefit from using these method of preparation, as well as adding digestive enzymes to their diets, and making sure they have good gut flora with pre- and pro-biotics. Most diseases start in the gut.

@blfenton - Almost any gluten-free grain can be cooked into porridge if you just want hot cereal. Or are you wanting an oatmeal substitute that is a flake to use in other cooking, like cookies, breads, etc.? I have a flaker mill, so I make my own flakes from a variety of whole grains. I'm not a big fan of commercially-prepared grains/flakes/flours - that's why I do my milling/flaking at home. Once the bran on any seed is cracked, the oxygen quickly begins to destroy the nutrition and oxidizes the oil - so you are essentially eating food with compromised nutrition and degraded, if not rancid, oils. If I can't prepare it fresh myself for optimal nutrition, I don't very often use it.

-Grainlady

"The second test proved this theory when tested for all 17 proteins and showed a strong gluten sensitivity, but not Celiac disease."

There is no blood test for gluten sensitivity. They don't even know the cause, thus making this not a proven disease. At least one recent study shows intolerance to wheat does not coincide with intolerance to pure gluten.

Are you referring to an IgG test? This is pseudoscience, a positive result does NOT indicate an allergy or intolerance.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/igg-food-intolerance-tests-what-does-the-science-say/

Listen, if you have trouble digesting something and don't want to eat it, fine, no problem, but please stop dragging junk science into it, and trying to make it more than it is, this is why people roll their eyes.

@watchmelol. I enjoyed that link and believe I have seen many a sufferer at the grocery store.

as to the argument of imagined vs real effects, I have nothing to add, I've experienced both in my life but don't feel the need to dwell on a distinction

thank you all, lots of good info though I can't say I feel more familiar with the gluten thing than when I initially posted.

grainlady - I use quinoa flakes as an oat flake substitute in baking (cookies, crumbles, etc) but never thought of making it into a warm breakfast cereal. I will experiment with that.

Sensitivities/ intolerance vs allergies vs anaphylactic reaction - I have a sensitivity to eggs for whatever reason, I can eat them in baking but not as an omelette so it's the amount of egg that I simply have trouble digesting. My nephew is allergic to eggs and will go into anaphylactic shock and die if he eats them, even in baking.

I think that sensitivities/intolerance can be measured on a sliding scale and not my place to ever question how someone feels when eating something.

DS1 girlfriend is gluten intolerant, whatever that means for her and how she feels eating it. DS2's girlfriend is Celiac and was diagnosed when she was 18 and again, I'm assuming whatever testing that can be done has been done. But not my place to question the diagnosis.

Now, if I eat a mushroom I will gag - nothing to do with allergies, sensitivities or anything else. It's a visceral reaction to something that is disgustingly slimy. :)

Determining Celiac isn't a done deal at this point. I mean, they only just started accepting dermatitis herpitiformis as another indicator of Celiac disease. Autoimmune conditions are a lot more complex than just a blood diagnosis. Most are diagnosed by symptoms and not a true blood sample of "yep, it's here, marker XXX to determine you have Psoriatic Arthritis, Spondylosis, Lupus, etc." There is still a lot of research to be done on many autoimmune conditions.

"The mind is a powerful thing. If you truly believe eating something will make you sick, you WILL get sick when you consume it.Reminds me of a study done several years ago to see if prayer works
and the results were astonishing. Prayer DOES work......if you BELIEVE
it works. In people who didn't believe in the power of prayer, they saw
no improvement.I can't help but think of a quote I've seen circulated, "do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine."You don't have to believe that antibiotics cure infection or
ibuprofen reduces inflammation, it works whether you believe it or not.For the rest, if you have convinced your brain to have a reaction to
certain things, so be it. But please don't tell everyone else that your
non verifiable, nonreproducable expirience is scientific fact.It is fact for you BECAUSE you believe it. If it can't be reproduced
in a controlled environment then it is NOT a verified fact."

Hey - I'll take it! I just wished the "placebo" affect would have worked with my medications, in my youth, so I wouldn't have been in pain so much. Considering my diet brings on much relief in my body, I choose to eat what works for me regardless of anyone's opinions/eyerolls. I will still tell anyone with chronic illness to try an elimination diet to see if they have any results. A very harsh, limited elimination diet at that. As Hippocrates said - Let food by thy medicine and medicine be thy food.

And, Bossyvossy, it is your body. Go by how you feel, you'll know. Take time to play around, journal what you eat. Who knows, maybe it is something else - dairy, coffee? Eliminate all bread for a week or two and reintroduce to see what happens.

Great comments, watchme. I've often experienced that attitude but never encountered the definition and explanation of orthorexia. I think some of the contributions in this thread show some elements of that problem and others clearly not.

Everyone has likes and dislikes, many have intolerances and sensitivities, but it's easy to pursue needs and requirements without it being a daily obsession and a constant discussion topic in their lives.

Is there a word to define the emotional problem that I find similar - older people who constantly obsess, discuss and complain about the state of their health? What they eat and what they think about it (orthorexia) is often an accompanying problem of their self-fixated compulsions.

Oscar Wilde said: "Everything in moderation, including moderation". In other words, with food and all else, it's ok to be wild and crazy periodically. It's fun too!

I've never heard of orthorexia. Just another word to add to the dieting lexicon. Now, I do plan my menus ahead because it's a lot easier for grocery shopping when that's been done. But giving up food to be virtuous - not in my life!

I have a sister who is vegetarian and when we have a family dinner, with of course meat, she feels the need to point out, several times, how she is vegetarian and basically telling the rest of us how much better she is with her virtuous choice - maybe orthorexia at work.

Now with respect to older people - I see my mom at 87 who, while not fixated on food necessarily, will only eat her own prepared food. I think that things such as trouble swallowing, chewing, digesting, and changing tastebuds, come into play when eating. Many don't know or understand what is happening, many no longer have the ability to question their doctors, and so it does become a conversation. For many elderly (not all) their world becomes very narrow and life becomes difficult to navigate. If my mom or my MIL want to discuss their eating or health issues, my ears are wide open for them. I'm 62 and not far behind.

There is also no discounting how prevalent IgE antibody reactions (anaphylactic) are. There is something to be discussed about food and how our bodies are reacting to them. Why so many?

Moderation tends to be a very vague word to many. blfenton, very compassionate words and I agree, with respect to older people. Same goes with those with chronic pain and fatigue, it is a difficult place to be for many.

"Determining Celiac isn't a done deal at this point. I mean, they only just started accepting dermatitis herpitiformis as another indicator of Celiac disease. Autoimmune conditions are a lot more complex than just a blood diagnosis. "

Actually, there is a blood test less than a 1% chance of being a false negative, for Antiendomysial IgA antibodies. Combined with the other tests typically in a celiac panel, this is an extremely confident blood test. Do your research, this is fear-mongering IMO.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185775

Yes, and it was poorly worded on my part. Regarding Celiac, it is a lot more complex than just intestinal issues. It presents itself in many other ways and HD is just an example of a new precursor for testing of Celiacs. There is a up to a 2% failure rate by blood and that is pretty good but there are a lot of people out there who aren't getting tested due to how they present.

http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/celiac-disease/celiac-disease-symptoms

Separately, autoimmune conditions are complex hence my statement regarding diagnosis.

In the past, people had lots of allergies and sensitivities, but they were often just labelled eccentrics or cranks or hypochondriacs. They would or wouldn't eat this or that, and had no science to back up that certain things made them sick. I know close relatives of Celiac patients, who, while they don't have the disease themselves, find that they aren't really comfortable eating a lot of gluteny stuff. A little is fine, but they take the tops off burgers, and things like that, because too much and they don't feel so hot.

The mind is powerful, however. I'm slightly allergic to mango (slightly as in I'm not worried that it'll kill me). I have some mixed flavors vitamin C wafers that I didn't check well enough -- some have mango in them. I decided that with all the other natural fruit flavorings in them, and the small amount one ingests at once, that even if the allergen is in it (which I doubt) it was highly negligible. The one kind does taste like mango however, and it takes will power not to spit it out! My brain says if it tastes like mango, it's bad for you. :) If I could figure out which ones they were, I'd pull them out rather than fighting it. ;)

plllog - funny you should mention cranks - in above posts I mentioned my age of 62 and the fact that I really can't eat eggs, probably because of a level of sensitivity to them. Sixty years ago when I was 2 and refused to eat them anymore, my mom called me difficult. LOL! When my nephew (my sisters son) was diagnosed with the allergy to eggs my mom was like "huh" maybe there was/is something to that refusal after all. I don't even know if allergies to food are hereditary in any way.

Some allergies do seem to run in families. Sometimes family members will be allergic to the same thing but have different kinds of reactions.

You're not alone in your egg story. I've heard of lots of people who were pooh-poohed for refusing "yucky" foods as children who later learned that they had allergies to it. Luckily, not strong enough to have an anaphylactic reaction in most cases. The parents are just devastated when their child stops breathing because they forced her to eat something yucky. Just having a tummy ache or having your mouth feel funny when eating it should be enough to not be forced.

My policy is to ask why it's yucky, discuss what's good about it, and if the kid doesn't say it makes him feel bad or funny, or even a dislike for the texture, color or smell, I'll request an honest bite or two be tried if it's just apprehension about something new. Other than that, so long as all the necessary nutrition is getting in, I think it's important to let kids decide what they do and don't want to eat. Being able to say no to something they don't like or even don't want to like at home helps them say no to things they don't want to do from peer pressure or bad adults. I have the same attitude toward clothes. Appropriate, with an explanation of why we have to dress a certain way for certain occasions, but let the kid choose what's comfy and what looks good and reject what's itchy or rough or "weird".

My stepdad swears that he is allergic to onions. He will get sick if he knows he's eaten them. My mom, who absolutely loves onions, got tired of making him special dishes. The entire family knows that mom now blends them into many of her dishes, but no one says anything in front of him. He won't get sick, or even feel bad, unless he finds out he's eaten them. Funny thing is that I've long suspected he knows, but he still can't eat them and know it.

The mind is a funny thing.

Onion is a common item to give people intestinal distress. Anything from gas on up to IBS and its distresses. They have FODMAPs, as do other aliums, especially in the whites. Small amounts of chives are allowed on a low FODMAP diet. I wonder if your mom's disguising of the onions means that there's a small enough quantity or if something about the way they're prepared that makes it less problematic. It may be that your stepdad's onion thing is real but requires a certain quantity and or quality to appear, but that the taste or knowledge also is trigger enough.

Just a psychosomatic reaction from a childhood onion trauma. The mind is a funny thing.

Oh! Interesting. I know a guy who had something like that. He got food poisoning from tempura and couldn't face any Japanese restaurant for years after. You're right. It is similar to my brain telling me to spit out mango juice flavored vitamins even though I figured out they'd be safe to eat. :) Allergies are weird too, though, like the way many people can't eat a cooked egg without a violent intestinal reaction but can eat non-eggy baked goods with some eggs in them with no problem. There really are some people who can take onion powder or very cooked down onions, but if they're pretty solid they get intestinal reactions.

Bossyvossy, Have you been checking out the Cooking forum? Grainlady and others have been posting more good information about gluten free baking there.

No I haven't but I'll cruise on by. I must admit im not a baker and grainlady seems to know 10 million times more than me, so I feel out of place and hungry for the goodies they describe

bossyvossy-

Please don't feel out of place....it's just us ;-)!!! I once had a great friend tell me that knowledge isn't knowledge unless you share it with someone else, so the Cooking forum is a good place to share with EVERYONE at every level! I've just worked harder on some topics than the average person - and not without a lot of mistakes along the way - so I can spare people some of that (I hope).

You don't know how many times hubby has come home to some wonderful smell of fresh-baked goodies only to be told that's all he'll get because it was a total failure and it is now in the trash.

-Grainlady

Yes! Grainlady is an experienced professional and conscientious learner, and a wonderfully generous resource for us all. There are some cranks in Cooking, but don't let them intimidate you. There are far more lovely, sharing and welcoming people. And many who are gluten free for one reason or another.

Actually, I have made myself a member of that forum since the generous poster declared he will share his Powerball loot

You can be on a gluten free diet and still gain a lot of weight. It just means rather than using ingredients such as wheat, rye, oats and barley, they use rice and other grains. There are some gluten free products out there that are tasty, but it's best to find recipes and experiment. A co-worker has Celiac Disease and she's pretty much on top of all the good tasting gluten free food and all the stuff that's disgusting, as she puts it. I don't eat any grains. At all. Or starches. Or sugar. One thing I found since going 100% grain/starch/sugar free is: I'm never bloated! I lost 50 pounds. I feel terrific!

"Actually, I have made myself a member of that forum since the generous poster declared he will share his Powerball loot"

Lol, you're going to need it if you are going to rely on gluten free, processed foods. They are expensive! I agree with debby_ab, if you don't change your products, you won't change anything else - ie processed, sugary, empty calories - cookies, cakes, crackers, it will be high calorie. I try my best to eat like debby_ab but am weak and have a little bit of basmati rice and a piece of gluten free toast here and there. I also feel better when I am ultra strict. I feel good now but am at my best with less carbs and always no tomatoes and no cow dairy.

Hey, I eat (a lot), I cook (some), I qualify! Ha

true 4 me also, being disciplined is best but also hardest