I have only a few.

1) Marie Van Houtte - entering her third year. On her way to covering a 4x4 raised bed. She blooms profusely from April through July, then takes a break, only to return in cooler weather with a super-flush -- at one point I counted 28 buds and then gave up. She last bloomed about eight days ago.

She is yellow in the spring, cream with crimson edges in hotter weather, and pinkish-white in fall. Her blooms last 2-3 days inside.

2) Crepuscule - a band last year. Now filling a 14" pot, and soon to be transplanted. Weathered the heat and drought -- almost died while I was away, but recovered beautifully. She has two buds on her right now, one of them very s-l-o-w-l-y preparing to open. The flowers are fragile, but they are a wonderful pale-to-mid apricot, and fragrant as far as I can tell.

3) Souvenir de Mme. Leonie Vientot -- also a band last year. A vigorous plant for most of the year, but nary a bloom nor a sign of one. Right now she's looking bedraggled, as if she knows I see a shovel in my mind every time I look at her. On this forum, last summer, I was (very gently) disabused of hope for this rose in my climate.

For next year, I've ordered General Schablikine and Georgetown Tea. Can't wait to see how they do. I'm also on a waiting list for Clementina Carbonieri - I want that one bad.

Great thread!

Sylvia

Is 'Sanguinea' the same rose as 'Bengal Fire'? I just took a look at HMF, and there seems to be some confusion around the latter variety. In Italy we have 'Sanguinea', while I haven't seen BF or 'Miss Lowe's Variety', which I gather is part of the confusion. However I haven't looked around lately in the Italian rose world.

There do seem to be more than one China roses exhibiting the 'Sanguinea' flower form on plants of different stature. Reports originating from different climates further confuse things. Bengal Beauty is another name for one / some of these roses. I have recently obtained a plant sold as 'Bengal Beauty' in the UK and I will report about its growth in my warmer conditions. For the moment, I've seen one flower that looks just like any 'Sanguinea' pictures I've seen.

Thanks Lynn, I have the thorny climber that is likely a Wichurana, which I like very much, but I will have to get the tea also...

Sylvia, give SDLMV a couple of years and then decide. As many strains of it appear to be very vigorous virtual once but prolific bloomers, it seems reasonable that sometimes they may take their time to establish before blooming.

I'm wondering about this as well. It seems that there are differences between the two, mainly in ultimate size. I got 'Miss Lowe's Variety' from Rogue Valley Roses this year. I'm also keeping my eye on 'Bengal Crimson' aka 'Chelsea Physic Garden Red Bengal" at Rose Petals Nursery. I'd like to have both -- if they are in fact different. I'm not doubting whether there ARE two different roses out there. My concern is whether both nurseries have theirs correctly named. I might just get it and grow them both for a while, and if I deem them to be identical, just plant it at the church garden.

:-)

~Christopher

P.S. The links I added for the roses' names go to their respective HelpMeFind pages. The nursery names go to what each carries. RVR says theirs gets to about 2-3', but the band I got in Spring is already reaching that height. On HelpMeFind, 'Miss Lowe's Variety' is claimed to be from 2-6' in height. Then there's 'Bengal Crimson', which HelpMeFind says gets to 5'. I know it's off-topic, but could someone explain what I should look for to differentiate them if I have both?

Maybe the only way to know if these 2 particular roses sold in the US are indeed different is to grow them both, see for yourself and report for the benefit of others.

But then how do I decide which nursery is correct if they're both the same?

:-)

~Christopher

You don't. There's much confusion but you'll have de-confused a part of it.. I'm sure pics and descriptions on HMF are all mixed up anyhow.

...no mention for 'Florence Bowers' Pink Tea'...? I'm quite surprised... maybe it's difficult to obtain...

re..'Bengal Crimson'.... the plant I have is the same one growing in the Chelsea Physic Garden.... in London, - as Rogue Valley also claims.

...the Chelsea garden would have got their plant from RHS Wisley here, who introduced it in the early 1980's...[from the south of France it seems].. I picked up 4 plants from the Wisley plant centre when I visited their garden mid 1990's, having seen it growing there, and my rose is a cutting from one of those 4 that I planted in a previous garden...

...it's much more vigorous own root... and was easy to strike from a cutting... I mean, if I could do it, anybody could...[this contrasts to a Beales statement noted on HMF that says something to the contrary]...

..as for Tea roses, 'Mme Antoine Mari', which everyone seems to have, is doing quite well for me in its first year...

...no mention for '"Florence Bowers' Pink Tea"...? I'm quite surprised... maybe it's difficult to obtain...

*** AFAIK, "Florence Bowers Pink Tea" is not in commerce at this time.
It was available for a relatively short period of time from Vintage Gardens, before their closing, and is still in that collection.
Here, we have another victim of the reduced number of Old-Rose-oriented nurseries.
It's my goal for the coming year to get this rose to Malcolm Manners, et al.
It's a VERY nice rose. Totally clean in my garden, and very, very vigorous. It's one of a handful of roses I obtained last spring, and with which we will be re-planting some areas of our garden.

re..

*** Yes. This is the same

I think there was a bit of confusion.

Rogue Valley Roses carries 'Miss Lowe's Variety', which I got this year.

Rose Petals Nursery carries 'Bengal Crimson', which they have as aka 'Chelsea Physic Garden Red Bengal'.

I know that there are two different albeit similar roses out there, but how does one tell them apart? What should I look for with my 'Miss Lowe's Variety' from RVR that would confirm it's correctly named, and not actually 'Bengal Crimson'?

:-)

~Christopher

Jeri,.. it's great that you're aiming to make it more available and I hope eventually that this rose makes its way to Europe.... regardless of whether I could actually grow it or not...it would be fun to try..

Christopher.... sorry I got them mixed up, but I might also point out that your Chelsea Psychic amuses me greatly, as it is of course the Chelsea Physic... whose origins are with apothecaries rather than clairvoyants...

...I'm inclined to think that 'Miss Lowe's variety' doesn't really exist separately, that they are all the same, but that some plants just grow larger for various reasons....in different gardens, different methods of cultivation...?... perhaps Miss Lowe of Wimbledon London suffered severe winters in her day, and it just never got that tall...

...I might have thought my 4 grafted plants were 'Miss Lowe's' as they never got over 3 foot, and I had them for some years, but my own root from the same bush is already much larger and not stopping...

..just a hunch...

Hahaha! I thought it looked funny as I typed that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I'll fix it.....

8-)

Oh, and the third reference under 'Bengal Crimson' on HelpMeFind adds further confusion.

:-/

In any case, I started a new thread so as to stop hijacking this one.

:-)

~Christopher

And 'Sanguinea'? Where does it fit in?

I kind of like "Psychic".

FWIW, my own-root Miss Lowe's Variety from Vintage is 7' tall, more than that wide...and in bloom right now.

I for sure will mention Florence Bower's Pink Tea as a favorite, as well as Le Pactole, Mrs. B.R. Cant, Lady Hillingdon, Westside Road Cream Tea, Niles Cochet (finally catching hold in a marginal hillside spot), Mme. Bravy, and, though still young, Edith Perry (blooms a lot, decent leaves, full flowers of a nice pink that always seem to be well-shaped).

Souvenir de Pierre Notting is often spectacular here, but the weather this past season did not seem to suit him-- his flushes always seemed to hit the wrong weather this year. Ditto Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux -- "fall flush" very late to form and currently making no headway in cold temps.

I am pretty sure that "Bengal Fire" is "Chelsea Physic Garden" is "Chelsea Physic Garden Bengal."
The rose we know as "Bengal Fire" was imported to the U.S. from a subsequently-extinct nursery -- but the people involved with the nursery indicated (in answer to my query) that it was the same rose.
IMHO, Anyone who aims to come up with an accurate accounting of red China Roses (or for that matter, pink ones) is probably going to spend the rest of his or her life at it, and still not be certain of much. I wouldn't even try. That way lies insanity.
So I will take no position whatsoever about whether "Bengal Fire" is 'Miss Lowe's Variety', or perhaps 'Sanguinea'.

Re: "Florence Bowers' Pink Tea", I do recall seeing it listed at Angel Gardens' web site earlier this year... not listed with the other roses, but on the home page there was a link for roses they had available for preorder. It isn't listed now, but if someone wants this gorgeous climber, a telephone call or e-mail might establish if AG has it for sale, or will have it soon. http://www.angelgardens.com/directions.html

Sorry, Marlorena, I know that doesn't help you if you were looking for this foundling.

Virginia

What I really would love is to get my hands on some of the roses John Hook offeres at his nursery in France. So many unfamiliar names and enchanting roses. It's unfortunate that the importation process is so arduous. The same roses keep turning up on our lists here and some "fresh blood" would be very exciting. I'm afraid I'd be tempted to rip out some less than stellar bushes just to make room for these new, more exciting beauties.

I only have 2 tea roses that I planted last spring and they are Mrs B R Can't and Duchesse de Brabant. I am really pleased with both so far but MBRC is my favorite, she started off slow but when the end of summer rolled around she burst into new growth and is full of buds and I love her blooms and scent. DdB is also growing well but I prefer MBRC larger blooms. I am now trying to decide on what other teas I would like to plant next spring and they are:

Marie Van Houtte

Rosette de Lizy

George town tea

i would also welcome any suggestions of a tea that I absolutely must not be without in my garden :).

For a white tea I would recommend Mme. De Sombreuil or Mrs. Dudley Cross that ranges from creamy white around the edges to pale yellow in the middle. Madame Lambard and Lady Hillingdon are nice deeper pind and apricot roses, respectively. bowcrow66, could you please go into your profile and add your zone and state to your name to make It easier to make recommendations.

I am in zone 8 in SE Tx.

Ingrid, I have to agree that a look at the plant list at La Roseraie du Désert stirs up some rose envy in my heart; I try not to visit too often...

One Tea that I really like the looks of, but can't get is 'Hugo Roller'. Yes, there are other bicolor Teas, but that one just has a certain je ne sais quoi...

The Teas I have are much too immature for listing favorites, but I will give a shout-out to 'General Schablikine', who is still small (purchased in June from RU), but is remarkably symmetrical in shape compared to most of my others, and at the moment is wearing some truly fine-looking foliage.

Reading the other comments here with interest, both about the roses I already have and the ones I have on my 'want list'. Honestly, there are only a few Teas that aren't on my want list, but it's okay to dream, right?

Virginia

Plectrudis, What fantastic roses! Thank you for posting.

Rhodologue plectrudis.... it suits you too..

..I echo Sheila's post..

...and who could believe that such a wonderful rose as that, was bred not too far from me here... it must have seriously disliked our climate... no surprise I suppose...

plectrudis, your roses are wonderful and that shot of Mrs. B.R. Cant is sublime. I wish mine looked like that ever, even once, but obviously it likes your conditions better, and looks wonderful against the light-colored stone. I really hope the long-awaited and still absent El Nino gives my garden a kick in the pants, although at the same time I hope this promised "monster storm" doesn't drown everything. Time will tell....

Favorite Teas and Tea-ish Chinas

I have only been playing in this particular rose field for three or four years so many of my roses have yet to really show their stuff. Of special importance, I moved a number of them last year to consolidate watering zones. This has set back some potentially fine roses that I cannot accurately evaluate for another year. Nonetheless a few are real standouts. I'll put in my votes for these this year:

Rosette Delizy

Crepuscule

Le Vesuve

One rose that has been an ongoing disappointment to me is Lady Hillingdon. Now don't get me wrong. I absolutely love this rose, so much so that I have replaced dead plants repeatedly, though I do not plan to do so again. My current shrub-form Lady H continues to show significant dieback year after year, but I grit my teeth and cut off the dead canes. So far there has been a scant amount left for another year's survival and even new growth. I also have two climbing form Lady H's planted in one hole. Together they make maybe one good shrub. Here's a rose that in my garden at least is a candidate for grafting onto stronger rootstock. The gorgeous Climbing Lady Hillingdons I fell in love with in England were all grafted. I came into roses completely in the Heirloom Roses camp, Own Root Is Best. Two decades of gardening experience have taught me Sometimes But Not Always.

***I have come back to revise this post, which stirred me to go out into the cold damp garden and see how things are doing. Several teas caught my admiration and I do believe I will have a full 12 to vote for next year at this time. However one I had forgotten is flourishing, healthy, fragrant, gorgeous and already huge, so I feel justified in adding it to my list right now. Here goes.

Climbing Devoniensis

This is truly a magnificent rose, one of the finest growing on my back fence.

All my Teas are too new to judge and now buried under snow so we shall see. One of the teas I got my daughter in Texas (or ended up leaving and have a replacements coming) Marie Van Houtte really got it's prickles into me, I just love it and I'm a pink lover, but something about that shade of yellow with the reddish outer petals. OK, I'll admit it, I do have what I call my pale yellow garden near an oak tree which I started with the magnolia 'Elizabeth' and have added various other non-bright yellow shrubs and flowers to, so I can take pale yellow. :). I have added many teas to my garden hoping the cusp of 7a/b is not too harsh on them, Mutabilis did well and though I got it by mistake it has really grown on me. I really look forward the Le Vesuve, Madame Berkeley, La Sylphide, and Adam (or is it Mme Berard? it is from ARE) and the others this coming Spring assuming the cold doesn't chill them out. I'm starting to love the floppy limp necked look of the teas and adore the sun shining through them. I hope I can grow them where I am. Nice to hear about all the wonderful teas you all have.

Anne, I ordered assorted Teas from ARE. They are coming 1/13/16 ish because they need to bareroot them to get them into Oregon and that is when they are dormant and shipable bare. I hope that works for their Teas. It worked for Chinas and Noisettes last 1/15. I'm with you hoping all this works for them. Do they need to bareroot them for California? In Alaska they could send the pot.

In our central Florida gardens, here's my list in approximate order of favoriteness:

1. Mrs. B. R. Cant. An extraordinarily large-growing, tough-as-nails thing that is just never out of bloom.

2. Mons. Tillier (a.k.a. Archiduc Charles) -- nearly as large a shrub. Always in flower.

3. Devoniensis

4. Bermuda's "Miss Atwood."

5. Bermuda's "Trinity"

6. "Rock Hill Peach Tea" (Ruth Knopf's find)

7. Mrs. Dudley Cross

8. Duchesse de Brabant

9. Rhodologue Jules Graveraieux

10. Rosette Delizy

11. Miss Caroline

12. Clementina Carbonieri

Actually, if we consider 'Smith's Parish' and 'Red Smith's Parish' to be Teas, they'd be up there in the middle or higher.

Just choosing twelve favorites is hard! I've been thinking on this for a while, and have to just out with it before I change my mind again. Best first...

1. Trinity- bulletproof

2. Rock Hill Peach Tea- very drought and heat resistant

3. Archduke Char!es

4. Miss Atwood

5. Lady Hillingdon

6. Mrs Dudley Cross

7. Safrano

8. William R Smith

9. Mother Dudley (found rose)

10. Le Vesuve

11. Old Gay Hill Red China- I have several chinas, but this one comes out on top for me. Very bushy, drought and heat resistant.

12. The Cochets- I'm cheating with this one, because I include Maman, White Maman, and Niles Cochet. Love them too much to try and choose who is best.

I have several roses who didn't make the list. Maybe they're even better plants, but they just don't make my heart sing in the same way. In some cases too, choosing was just too hard. :/

Brittle, I do get that. Some roses speak to us. Others, equally worthy, just don't make that connection.

I had to look up Trinity because I'd never heard of it. I notice that quite a few of the pictures in HMF for this rose are yours, brittie. I'd be interested to know why you feel this is your best rose (assuming you numbered them in order of preference) since in your pictures the flowers seemed to flop very quickly. Does that improve when the rose is older, and does it stand up well to the heat? Your mentioning William R. Smith made me nostalgic because I loved that rose, but over the course of a few years it deteriorated in the heat and my poor soil. It really had lovely blooms, though.

Plectrudis your MBRC is gorgeous and and I make that joke all the time lol I especially tell it to my MBRC, she was so small when I planted her and now she is on her way to hopefully the way yours looks. I am also going to be looking up some of the teas that you and Brittie have mentioned on your list since y'all are also in Texas and they seem to be doing well for you. I have enjoyed this thread and have learned so much about different teas. It's interesting to see how some teas are on one persons list but not make it on another list, just goes to show how differently we feel about certain roses. I can't wait to plant more teas in the spring. I am waiting for my copy of Antique Roses for the South to come in before I make my final list of roses to plant.

You're right Ingrid that the blooms blow pretty fast, but there are so many of them it doesn't really matter. The heat does shrink the flowers, and I haven't noticed any fragrance. Lol, so why do I like it!? (I should add that I live in a coastal community, and can walk to the bay from my house. Very high humidity and disease pressure.) Trinity is extremely blackspot resistant for me, it's insanely vigorous and also seems to be invisible to chilli thrips (so far). I haven't updated my pictures on hmf because the bed trinity lives in is not looking its best. My plant is a very dense eight feet tall and a good six feet around. Bulletproof is the best word for it.

Wow, brittie, with that size there must be lots and lots of blooms. I agree, disease resistance is acutely important, especially for those of us who don't spray. The most beautiful rose can be a sad and discouraging sight when it's covered with diseased leaves. I'll look forward to a picture when you feel the bed looks right.

Luxrosa, I'm wondering if, when you make that list, you could make separate ones for dry and humid climates.

I hope many more people chime in with their experiences.

Trish

Boncrow, just in case someone hasn't made this suggestion to you yet, another terrific book for Tea rose lovers in Texas is

Tea Roses: Old Roses for Warm Gardens by Lynne Chapman, Noelene Drage, Di Durston, Jenny Jones, Hilla (2008) Hardcover.

It includes a bunch of cultivars, and the authors have been wonderfully scrupulous in researching and documenting which roses are correctly identified and which are probably being sold under assumed identities. Also, they're from Australia, and they have a very interestingly international perspective, comparing individual cultivars as they appear in multiple countries. It's my favorite rose book. I wish they'd write a sequel about Chinas.

Happy planting!

I love love love my teas! Favorites are Mon Tillier for the smell, Clementina Carbonieri, Lady Roberts, Mme. Berard, Mrs BR Cant, Rosette Delizy, and Rhodologue Jules Graveraieux. I have others but the first two especially I could not do without.

Thanks for the suggestion Plectrudis, I did consider that book and will have to order it as well. By the way your Arcadia Lousianna tea is very lovely too.

I can't believe I forgot to include Arcadia Louisiana Tea on my list! That rose is a phenomenon here: huge and floriferous, even through drought, and even now has flowers. I especially enjoy how gracefully the huge, full flowers droop, like lanterns (and glad that I planted it uphill from the path, so that the faces of those flowers can be seen). Subtle, pleasing color and nice scent, too.

Editted to add photos of ALT:

I haven't had Teas for that long but they are definitely amongst my best roses. In my hot, humid climate (10b), my favourites so far are:

1. Rosette Delizy - I think this one is my best rose overall. I love the growth and sheer number of blooms. I don't have any problems with balling and they only burn a little on very hot days, which doesn't really matter to me as there are new blooms opening all the time. No disease and fast growing. The blooms don't nod and last ages in a vase for me.

2. General Gallieni - I don't think many people love this rose but it's imperfection is the key to its beauty for me. You never know what you will get! I love the look of the blooms on hot days, where they look like they have been painted with watercolours. Doesn't ball or burn at all for me. Took this pic not long after it arrived as a tiny spindly bare root a few months ago, now it's 5ft high and rising!

3. G Nabonnand - some days it's my favourite but the blooms aren't as tough as the others so it suffers a little in the heat. Beautiful leafy shrub though and always in bloom, like everyone says. I think it has nice perfume too.

4. Duchess de Brabant - I didn't like this one much to start with but it's growing on me! Love the perfume and the number of blooms. Gets a bit of black spot here but nothing serious.

5. Climbing Devoniensis - wow, what a climber! It's my most vigorous climber by far. Actually I'm a little scared of it. My favourite perfume from all the Teas. Also gets a little black spot here.

6. Anna Olivier - mine is still young but it's graceful and has soft full blooms. No disease, not as fast growing as others but it's slowly making a nice full shrub.

7. Baronne Henriette de Snoy - not 100% sure about the growth and how the bush will shape up, it's a bit branching and angular and sparsely foliated at the moment. I'm hoping it will improve. Love the full pretty blooms though.

8. Reve d'Or - I don't even own it yet but I love it! It's on order! I've admired the mature bushes at the rose garden for ages, I can't wait to find a spot for it.

9. Lady Mary Fitzwilliam - sneaking this early HT in as it grows like all my other Teas - vigorous, leafy and healthy. I guess I can't be sure the rose I have is Lady Mary Fitzwilliam, given the contention, but I think it could be. Never balls, never burns.

10. Mrs B R Cant - wasn't too impressed with this one until I fell in love with the reverse of the blooms! So pretty (and huge!) She is sprawling at the moment and may get too big for her spot. Not as floriferous as others for me but very good blooms for picking.

11. Souv de Pierre Notting - here this rose loves the heat. The hotter, the better. I don't have a problem with the brown ruff of outer petals unless it rains. Last very well in the vase and an interesting shape. Love the tinge of pink to the golden blooms. Healthy but a little less vigorous than others I have.

12. Marie van Houtte - I adore this rose but it's a monster! Beautiful blooms that I prefer to most other pink/yellow combinations. Nice tea perfume too but it's getting too big for its spot sadly. Should be higher up my list, I just forgot about it.

Ones that haven't impressed are Monsieur Tillier (blooms fry instantly and are tiny, so disappointed with this one), Francis Dubreuil (likewise), the imposter Noella Nabonnand (floppy wet rag blooms here that don't last) and White Maman Cochet (balling a bit, slow growing for me, not many blooms so far).

I've ordered loads for next year so I'm sure my list will change! I'll be adding Mrs Dudley Cross, Tipsy Imperial Concubine, La Vesuve, Comtesse Riza du Parc (whatever it really is - Dr Grill? Mme Charles?), Souv de Therese Lovet, Souv d'un Ami, Mme Jules Gravereaux, Triomphe du Luxembourg, Etoile de Lyon, Archduke Charles, Duchess d'Auerstadt, Marachal Niel, Octavius Weld and Lady Roberts. Now I just have to make more room! A Tea I'd love to add one day is David's Dilemma.

Brightstar, I don't know where you garden but I suspect that geography has as much to do with the roses we like best as do our personal tastes. Certainly Rosette Delizy does well almost everywhere teas will grow.

I like General Gallieni, too. It is on my short list for next year. I value its intense colors in a class of roses that leans toward the subtle. It is just too young for a full evaluation. I like to watch roses for several years before I decide.

I think I'm going to like General Schablikine. Again, too young for useful evaluation.

I also have noticed that Anna Olivier is an awfully slow grower. I'm glad you mentioned that, as mine has frustrated me. I was concerned that I was doing something wrong.

In my garden Mrs B R Cant had a lot of mildew. It doesn't everywhere, so apparently it is climate sensitive in this regard.

I also have a young General Gallieni that looks promising. Nice to see it on so many lists! It's only made one flower so far, but it lasted forever. Sitting right next to the general in a gallon pot is Jesse Hildreth who has made one flower as well. (I pinched other buds- he wants to bloom!) Baronne de Snoy is new for me too. I can't wait for my babies to grow up!

brightstar, it's odd and frustrating that you can grow Rosette Delizy, and it just balled and burnt for me! I'm almost tempted to try her again. I gave her 3 years, and by then she was a large plant with loads of blooms - nearly all balled and burnt. GG did the same. Strangely, Ms Tillier doesn't burn here, though I do get small blooms in summer in his present position. That didn't happen in his previous one, where it was a lot less dry. Also he reaches for the sky, despite savage pruning on my part. That makes me think I should move him lower down, where I'll be able to see his blooms from above.

I love your photo of Baronne H de S. Have often thought of getting her. Who knows, I may yet, as it's rather a revolving door with roses in my garden! Interesting to hear about Souvenir de Pierre Notting loving the heat - makes him tempting too.

I'm very envious of your order. Good luck with them all. I saw Triomphe de Luxembourg at Misty Downs last November. Many of the roses were balled after heat and rain, but it was looking lovely, as was Purpurea di Bologna. Oh for more room, more energy, and a flat garden!

Rosefolly, I absolutely agree about geography having a lot to do with favourites - it's hard not to like a rose that's doing well in your garden! It's really surprised me how well commonly disliked Austins like Glamis Castle and Fair Bianca do for me here too. Whereas I was really keen to try Potter and Moore, given how well it does for Ingrid, but I forgot about the humidity difference and here it balls every single bloom, even with lots of heat! Such a shame.

I completely agree about Anna Olivier, it is very slow for me. I'm replacing an enormous Reine des Violettes with her but I'm worried it will take a fair while to get to a decent size.

Trish, it is very odd that Rosette Delizy and General Gallieni don't ball or burn for me and they did for you. It makes me want to try Hugo Roller and see how that goes here. Those two are in a very hot spot with full sun from about 9am until sunset, plus lots of reflected heat too. During the very hot days we have had recently (40C plus) I've kept a close eye on which roses burn and it surprised me that GG didn't, as my other dark coloured roses don't generally do as well. I did notice in the Tea Roses book that they recommend GG for high heat. RD sometimes does keep her ugly old blooms that look a bit brown but it seems unrelated to the weather in my experience. I took this pic of a bloom after a day where the measured temperature in our front yard was 43C, it's a bit worse for wear but not disgraceful. It was only a few weeks after I planted RD too.

I can't believe M Tillier doesn't burn for you! It's perhaps my worst burning culprit, along with Francis Dubreuil and Mme Isaac. Does yours have any shade?

Yes I agree, I definitely need more room! No idea where most of those ordered roses are going yet. It's going to be a rose jungle! I'm excited though, to see how they go. I wanted to order Ravensworth, Mme Abel Chatenay, Mme Bravy and Mme Hoste too but I've already spent way too much!

I went out to Rumsey Rose Garden last week and the Teas are looking nice at the moment - it was quite a surprise to see two huge Archduke Charles towering way over my head, not sure what I'm going to do with that one now!

brighstar, considering we're only around 30 km from each other, it is very strange. I get a lot of afternoon sea breeze here, and I'm wondering if that could have anything to do with it. Perhaps it's the extra moisture? Perhaps I've imagined the whole thing?! Rosette Delizy (if I ever had her!) was in a prime spot, sunny and sheltered, except from the nor'easter.

Ms T gets NO shade. I guess his high-up blooms may burn on really hot days, but not so that I've noticed. MIP is in a very hot spot too, north-east facing, with a sandstone wall at her back, and she doesn't burn either. I'm flummoxed.

I hope you do get Hugo Roller. I was won over by the photo in the 'teabags' book, a dense shrub, wider than tall, smothered in blooms. The blooms I got were glorious, packed with petals, and the scent.....I'm astonished it's not available in the U.S., especially when they have so many roses that we don't.

I had 3 Anna Oliviers planted together, far too closely (I now double what HMF says about size), which I had to remove, as they all had die-back pretty badly. I don't remember them being that slow. Certainly, they reached 5' after 3 or 4 years. I've planted another, and she is a little slow, compared with some of the others.

Is that the rose garden in Parramatta Park? I helped prune there one year (and donated some unwanted roses). I don't remember seeing Archduke Charles.

I hope you're getting this lovely rain.

Trish

Trish - it's just cloudy at the moment but I'm sure it will come! Just in time to ruin a huge flush of Austin and SdlM blooms - typical! Yes that's the one in Parramatta Park, they have quite a good collection of European and wild roses, don't they? Unfortunately I missed the flowers this year though. Annoyingly some of the labels are missing, as I saw several possible matches for some of the Rookwood roses, but they were unlabelled.

You have definitely persuaded me about Hugo Roller, I might see if I can swap it for one of my sillier choices if it's still available. I'm just as mystified as you are by the balling/burning - I'm also wondering if I've just failed to notice things but I'm pretty sure for at least GG. It's in an exposed spot near a busy road, it gets a fair bit of breeze and it's perfect because the blooms are tough. My MIP is also next to a sandstone wall at the front of our house, the actual bush is ok but after a day of 30C+ the blooms are shrivelled to nothing. My guess would be that the heat coming off the road, neighbour's driveway, our driveway etc is substantial and there isn't any cooling breeze or shade anywhere nearby.

Anyway I love the Teas, they make perfect sense here!

They make good sense in most of California as well. I have just ordered Niles Cochet as a replacement for Florence Bower, which died through my neglect. I just forgot that I had planted a young rose that needed extra water out by the fence. I'd better not forget this one.