Maybe Pine Siskin?

Is it goldfinch sized?

Claire

Seems that I've taken you down this road before, so let's go with young female H.Finch. I went through my "Finches Assorted" file and found the same question about these two with a caption - Siskinmaybies:

Thanks, Claire.

That beak does look a bit heftier than a siskin's. I have no problem with house finch if the body size is appropriate.

Claire

House finch was my first thought also, but I am not great at the birds I learned to lump as LBJs, little brown jobs.

Well as soon as I say we have no turkeys this year, more than 20 show up this morning. They were browsing the winter rye and the old sunflower seed heads leaning against the fence.

A couple of toms were in the neighborhood too, separate from the hens.

I have to throw in this pic of a mourning dove resting in the pines.

Susan

I'm in Michigan and should not be commenting on this Forum, but Clair, please don't forsake the Bird Watching Forum for this great one -- we need your expertise over there.

Also, Jane, I have a copy of your "I should probably put some conditioner near the birdbath" photo and I smile everytime I look at it. The humor and photos on this forum is just outstanding. I've learned so much and promise to remain a lurker.

Pat: I still check the Bird Watching Forum every day and I post if I have something relevant to add, but this is my home forum and my priority.

Now if you could rejuvenate the Bird Watching Forum and give me something to respond to.....

Claire

'Lurker' just doesn't sound right. But whatever the term, it just goes to show what a stroke of genius this thread was, what, almost 8 years ago? It's active longevity supports my statement. Sure, Pat, if a fluffy sparrow photo gives you a smile, then the shot is well worth it and I'm glad you have it!

Another critical subject: Tail support.

Jane: I just looked back in my photo files to see what I have on woodpeckers and tail support.

This flicker could definitely use some help:

This flicker seems to be using her tail to straddle the wisteria vine:

A hairy is well supported on the extension:

A male red-belly also apparently straddling a wisteria vine:

And this red-belly is also using the tail prop extension:

I'm convinced it's not just a marketing gimmick (at least not in this case).

Claire

Well, that does it. I must support them too. That is not a chap in my pictures, there is no mustache. I will order one inasmuch as I bought 40 suet cakes at Agway's Autumn sale. Thanks, Claire.

Tail support is one thing. This little guy made me wish he had hands.

I've come to realize that birders and fishermen have a lot in common. This is a classic shot of the one that got away.

Terrible shot, but my first sighting of bufflehead ducks, yesterday, in New Haven,CT harbor through dirty restaurant windows in the rain. Does anyone have buffleheads nearby?

They were amazing to watch as they all dove under together and came up together.

Jane

Jane: If chickadees had hands they'd probably also have a tool belt - very resourceful little birds.

I've seen buffleheads in the Bay from my backyard, but the photos aren't great given small birds at large distance.

I checked my GBBC photos and in 2014 I reported these buffleheads seen in the nearby marsh.

Two male Buffleheads:

Here with a Canada Goose as escort:

Claire

Now, of course, I'll have to go in search of buffleheads in sun to catch their colors. Meanwhile, back to the end of 2015 page, temps dipped low enough yesterday for the doves to return to the 'toes' warmer. This time last year, they were shivering in snow.

Jane

The second sparrow is a song sparrow I think, Jane, although songs and white-throats seem to get along well.

I saw four doves yesterday - they've been really rare here lately. I think there's a very efficient hawk hunting in my yard. Every morning there's a vast bird-free period and sometimes the crow patrol swoops around looking for trouble.

Claire

This is a good reference on White-throated Sparrow Plumage.

From what I've read both male and female white-throats look pretty much alike and Cornell'sAll About Birds site just shows pictures of adults without even trying to sex them. They're more interested in the tan-striped vs white-striped morphs.

The pictures of the juveniles on the McGill site show some striping on the breast but no where near as pronounced as your bird.

When these guides don't show male and female symbols I think they're saying that they look the same.

I found that first reference when I was trying to identify a sparrow on the Bird Watching Forum, the post was: Sparrow ID and I asked whether it could be a young white-throat. An expect told me it was a Swamp Sparrow and that

"A hatch-year (HY) White-throated Sparrow, which you could see in its
first fall/winter would have white wing bars and would also have the
white throat, yellow lores, and black/white head stripes of an adult
(After hatch year [AHY]), just paler than an adult."

He gave me the first reference.

Sparrows aren't easy.

Claire

You're right, Claire, it is a Song Sparrow. The beauty of misidentification is learning that WT sparrows, m&f, look alike, save the female has paler yellow eye markings. To add to the confusion was the fact that those 2 birds stayed together for more than an hour with no others of their kind in sight. The joy of birding. If you read it on the web, it must be true, therefore, picture caps above were edited to reflect correct ID.

Jane

Speak of the devil...paler yellow eye markings - I THINK this is Mrs. White-throated Sparrow: aka cute LBJ

Jane

I would guess they're first winter (hatch year) white-throats, not necessarily female although they could be. They don't have the clearly defined markings of an adult, just the beginnings. I could be wrong of course. Where did you get the information that the female has paler yellow eye markings?

Claire

Ref: White-throated Sparrows

Chipper Woods Observatory

"Adult birds have a distinctive white throat
and yellow lores. Adult females are similar to the males, but may have duller yellow in
the lores and a duller throat. Immature birds are similar to the adult female."

I also found this article below which states that there are (at least) 35 types of sparrows in North America and as if that isn't bad enough for amateur birders, well, I'm not doing the math to total all the morphing for both genders of each species. Off the top of my head, I think we could be in the 140 bracket...2 genders x 2 morphs...forget it. Hence, LBJs!

http://www.birds-of-north-america.net/sparrows.html

Has anybody tried Cornell's free app Merlin? I'm downloading it now to my iPad - there may be hope.

Merlin Bird ID App

Edit note: The app does not display properly on an iPad Air 2, I dumped it.

Jane

Thanks for the links, Jane. The statement "Adult females are similar to the males, but may have duller yellow in
the lores and a duller throat." amuses me - "may have" says that they "may not have" too. It doesn't really help much for definitive identification and I'm going to put sexing white-throats into the "Don't bother to even try" category.

And when they say "Immature birds are similar to the adult female." I'll forego identifying them by age as well. This bird is either an adult female or an immature bird of either sex. It's a White-throated Sparrow and let's move on.

I still try to identify the little brown sparrows but I throw up my hands at gulls.

Claire

I was curious why Feb '15 popped up so I read it. I must have been too busy shoveling snow last February to read it then; it was a great month for photos. NHBabs, an article about crows was referenced a couple of times but I didn't see the link when I looked through the thread. If you have the link and it is not too much trouble could you post it again? It sounded very interesting.

Jane

No problem, Marie. Here it is: The girl who gets gifts from birds.

I have more ravens than crows; I wonder if I could habituate them to me? Right now they mostly visit the compost pile, and I wonder if I always dumped the compost bucket in the morning that they would start looking for it.

Try it, NHBabs, and report back.

Claire

I put up the peanut feeder so the little birds can eat while the turkeys are here. Turkeys can't reach the peanut feeder but unfortunately squirrels can. I'll try to raise the baffle to keep them off - now they can jump on top of it.

Today is the day before Christmas and already I'm hearing footsteps on the roof. This time it's turkeys not reindeer. For some reason the turkeys are flying around and stomping on roofs (I keep thinking I should say 'rooves').

Claire

You want to say rooves because we were taught rooves, not roofs by silver haired teachers last mid-century. I do the same thing and think rooves sounds better than roofs, which, the very sound of, makes me picture a hound dog with a lisp.

"The accepted plural is "roofs". The Oxford English Dictionary lists
"rooves" as an alternate, one of several outdated spellings used in the
UK, and in New England as late as the 19th century." roofs vs. rooves

Beyond a very happy squirrel, the turkey is well coordinated with its surroundings. Just think, you didn't have to pay for a living cupola.

Jane

Christmas day and the berries have not frozen at all. Not good.

Full and profile of the titmouse...titmouses...titmice...each of them. Just thought it was a fun snap.

Jane

Claire - Your photo of the turkey on the roof started me humming "Up on the housetop."

Jane - the head-on face of the titmouse looks so goofy with the white eye surround. What type are your berries, hawthorne? I love the little red buds on the branch tips.

NHBabs, it is aronia, chokeberry.

Jane, my husband likes to call much of my writing/speaking "obsolete" but I contend that if I learned it in school, it is not obsolete until I, and all my classmates, are deceased, and even then, it will be *archaic* not *obsolete!* (Same goes for the British spellings of words, more perhaps, because they invented "our" language after all.)

So I say, write "rooves" Claire, if you wish! I love the photo of the turkey on your rooftop btw!

I think I saw a Dickcissel this morning hanging with the House Sparrows. Not great pics but everything blends in with the ground nowadays. The last time I saw a Dickcissel was in November 2009.

The bird has a hint of yellow on the breast and eyestripe, a pale chestnut shoulder patch, and a face pattern different from the House Sparrow.

Cornell's All About Birds site (linked above) says:

"Female House Sparrow similar to female Dickcissel,
but is stockier, lacks the thin black streaks on the sides of the
throat and any streaks on flanks, has a shorter, blunter, yellowish, not
bluish bill, rounded wings, and a broader, less yellow eyestripe."

Dickcissel on the top of the pic, female House Sparrow on the bottom.

I'll also post this on the Bird Watching Forum.

Claire

More stomping on the roof and this time I went out with the camera.

They're still up there; I can hear them.

Claire

Have you seen them perch on other houses nearby or do you think it is solely attributable to the 24 hour smorgasbord in your yard? I thought their roof perch selection was based on either or both a convenient location in their path or escaping heat to warm themselves. In the case of 6 houses being used by turkey vultures around the corner from us (2 miles away), I figured these newer houses were chosen by the TVs because the houses were built in their flyway. There were at least 60-80 TVs concentrated at noon one day between wing drying in trees and on rooftops.

Either way as to why your roof is a chosen perch, I'm glad you appreciate them because they aren't apt to leave in hurry from what I've read.

Hope this is a Cooper's because that's what I reported to PFW. Looks like he has a great nail job!

Jane

Jane: Your turkey vultures definitely trump my turkeys. I'm happy to have only four or so on the roof. Do you know why the vultures dry their wings so dramatically and turkeys don't?

I have seen turkeys on the roof of a house up the road so it's not just my yard.

Today's the first day of my PFW count and I'm perusing the house sparrows hoping to see the dickcissel again. No luck so far. Maybe the chilly morning and day gave it a dope slap and it headed south.

Claire

Claire asked : Do you know why the vultures dry their wings so dramatically and turkeys don't?

I thought they were two different families so I checked. Cornell -

Partridges, Grouse, Turkeys and Old World Quail(Order: GALLIFORMES, Family: PHASIANIDAE)https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/wild_turkey/id

New World Vultures (Order: ACCIPITRIFORMES, Family: CATHARTIDAE)

https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/browse_tax.aspx?family=75

I knew turkeys were in the partridge family and just figured TVs were vultures because the eating habits are so different. In the sun, drying, the TVs wings are very shiny deep auburn/chestnut.

Came home an hour ago, went out to fill the feeder before the storm, and from all the house corner foundation shrubs, a bunch of small birds scattered in multiple directions WHILE, from the big yew, a Coopers bounced out onto the ground and glared at me. Can't believe I stood there, maybe 10' apart, having a rather contentious exchange with a hawk, but, that's what happened just before he flew right past me clutching his prey. He was still out back in a maple by the time I got to a camera.

Jane

It doesn't talk about vultures drying their wings, but this video from CapeCast has some interesting information on turkey vultures. Mike O'Connor runs the Bird Watcher's General Store on Cape Cod.

Claire

edit note: I think cabin fever is setting in early.

Cabin fever without snow is unfair. May be time for a trip.

A Turkey Vulture was boarding a plane with 2 dead raccoons. The stewardess said " I'm sorry sir, only one carrion".

Jane, could you tell what the Cooper's Hawk had caught? One of your feeder birds or a chipmink or . . . ?

I just had to look up the TV wing spreading, and Stanford says:

"Spread-wing postures appear to serve for both thermoregulation and drying in Turkey Vultures. These birds maintain their body temperature at a lower level at night than in the daytime. Morning wing-spreading should provide a means of absorbing solar energy and passively raising their temperature to the daytime level. Field observations indicate that this behavior is associated with the intensity of sunlight and also occurs more frequently when the birds are wet than when they are dry."

(https://web.stanford.edu/group/stanfordbirds/text/essays/Spread-Wing_Postures.html)

Jane: A couple years ago I had a similar situation where I heard a frantic chorus of chirping from a rose bush and I went out to see what was going on. A large flock of House Sparrows erupted from the rose and a Cooper's Hawk, very disgruntled, flew off. The hawk seemed to have had the sparrows cornered in the rose but couldn't reach them. I've also seen a hawk circling around a dense shrub and trying to reach into it but the little bird was just far enough in to be safe.

NHBabs: Good information on the wing-spreading.

Claire

NHBabs, my guess is either a titmouse or junco because of the white belly that was obvious in some of the pictures and the size of the feet. The times that I've seen TVs spreading their wings was when it was well below freezing but in full sunshine or after a rain. We are in their flyway and they have stopped here when the meat scraps were put out for the crows. They frequent a farm a mile from here, and without a camera!, I saw at least a dozen aligned on a sequence of fence posts. Turkey vulture finials, lol.

Jane

First snowfall this season, Dec. 29, 2015, and zinnias are growing in the International Space Station. What a year. The little guy who waited so long for it, is keeping one foot warm. Wise.

Jane

First snowfall here too and I also saw a junco but it wouldn't wait for the photo op. A cardinal and a white-throat were more obliging.

Claire

I always wonder if there is some spirit of cooperation among birds. It appears that these two often work in harmony spilling feed to the ground crew. The cooperation may be intentional. Cooperation

On the feeder made for small songbirds, there is a rhythm that is working for the greater good.

Workers with foreman?

Beneficiaries

We also are having our first frozen precip, though it is ice pellets as opposed to snow. Like Claire's junco, the junco that visited DH's bare parking spot soon after he drove off didn't stick around long enough to get his photo taken.

Dense fog has not reduced flying this morning. In fact, it's busier than usual. The BJ did make a safe landing.

But the flicker wasn't impressed....

Claire

Great photos everyone! I had about 30 turkey's come visit two days ago. Now, normally that is not that original, but about a half dozen decided to get up onto my back deck and perch on the railing and table. One of them was about four feet away from where I was sitting in the house and I'm pretty sure was trying telepathically to tell me to put out more seed. They were very rambunctious pecking at one another and jumping straight up into the air right in front of my den window. It was hilarious! Love those big birds. Claire, I'm not sure they've ever been on the roof here. We've had a handful of vultures land once in a while, but never turkeys.

This morning, I'm so very certain we saw a Carolna Wren. My folks live in NC, so I'm keen on what they look like. I looked up house wren just in case, and it was not a match. I was very surprised to see one. Should I be? Has anyone else seen them in the winter? This was a first for me. I know they can handle cold temps, but this threw me off a bit.

Thyme, I was very excited to have some here last winter. Here's a pic from last February:

Susan

T2D: That sounds like the young turkey toms horsing around with the jumping up and down and establishing their pecking order. I love seeing it too.

I usually see Carolina Wrens all year round and saw these last February.

Unfortunately the winter was unusually bitter here and lasted a long time, and the wrens were apparently killed off. I haven't seen or heard one all year this year and the local banding program remarked that they were absent.

Claire

I'm setting up the Birds and other mobile features in the garden 2016 #1 thread but you're welcome to continue the discussion here.

Claire