1) Are the two 18-inch cab drawers on either side of the refrigerator useful? If you have drawers this size, what do you keep in them?

Mine isn't by my fridge so I probably keep different things as it's by my range. , I have:

Top drawer: hot pads, trivets, a drawer organizer with items to clean my electric cooktop (Barkeeper's Friend in a small shaker bottle, a scrubber just used on the cooktop, and the CeramicBryte with it's applicator and a few razor blades....which I have rarely had to use, thank goodness), and the thermometer that plugs into my oven.

Drawer 2: Assorted gadgets like an egg slicer, a pineapple corer/slicer thingie, strawberry stem plucker (which I only use when doing large batches), meat pounder, thingie from Pampered Chef that allows me to break up hamburger into chunks quicker, and a bunch more. Some of the gadgets I only use at the cooktop but most are ones I rarely use so I'd have to look to remember what else is there.

Drawer 3: plastic wrap, wax paper, parchment paper, foil

Drawer 4: Assorted sizes of regular plastic bags and freezer bags

Most of my drawer stacks are 21" wide. I know most say wider but I'm very happy with these widths. Two stacks hold all my baking supplies and gadgets plus a few small appliances and my casserole dishes. Another holds all my daily silverware, dishes, bowls, and glassware. I would think you'd find scads of uses for your 18-inchers.

The best advice I could give you is to decide what you want to store there and then group items by what drawer, then measure. You want to be sure you order the right heights. For example, you might want one to be a 3-drawer stack with one deep drawer for a food process or blender or some other tall appliance. And the other drawer stack might be a 4 or 5 drawer stack with short drawers to store napkins, placemats, aprons, and stuff like that. Obviously, those are just examples to get you thinking.

2) Is there a better way to get seating in the kitchen? I realize that with this layout, the fridge is blocking the view of anyone sitting there.

I thought at one time you were considering seating here? This makes more sense to me. It keeps people sitting out of the main walkway which is more comfortable for them and for the cook(s). And puts them where they can visit with the cook(s).

3) Is there enough space between the counter seating and the maximum swing of the back door (36 inches)?

I would feel very in the way when the door is open and when people are walking between the main kitchen and the nook area in the L. But, mainly, I wouldn't want to sit and look at the side of the fridge.

I hope this bumps it up so you get more feedback.

Oh, what did you decide about seating in the L? I remember you had some of it done but don't recall the results. I'm curious. Feel free to just link me to a discussion about it if I missed something.

I'm sorry, don't remember why you have the fridge flanked by cabinets. If it's vintage...maybe show off the fridge and combine the storage?

It would also give you a little more 'breathing room' for the people sitting on the stools :)

@funkycamper: I tried to make the seating arrangement as you posted, with a peninsula next to the stove. I have three issues that lead me to discard the idea: 1) the radiator eats up 1 foot of the peninsula; 2) this back door is the entryway we use most often, so I'd like to keep it as clear as possible; and 3) I'd lose a lot of storage space.

Here's a mockup of that layout:

I'm going to play with this a bit more...I really don't want seating staring at the fridge, either.

@lavenderlass: Unfortunately I do not have a vintage refrigerator (not yet, anyway!). I am planning on using the fridge that came with the house. It is a side-by-side freezer/fridge (the worst!) which is why I have landing space on either side of the fridge. I also thought it might be a bad experience to walk into the room with a big fridge immediately to your right. What do you think? I love the fact that your suggestion includes wider drawers and moves the seating further from the fridge...

Put some magnets on the side of the fridge? Maybe make it an organization center? Have you seen those combination calendar/memo boards? They usually have them at stores this time of year, for kids to use in college dorms, etc. I've found some really pretty ones and they stick right to the fridge :)

I know things can be different in person than how they appear in diagrams but I have the impression that people sitting in that corner would be less in the way of the door than in the walkway staring at the fridge. Even if you switched out the cabinets like Lavender suggested, I still don't think I would like sitting there. I think I'd like the corner seating better even if it meant just space for one person and the other person would have to sit on the other side...maybe just a resting place for cook? I could be wrong.

Is your kitchen open enough now to allow you to mock up seating in both spaces to try them out and see how they work?

The seating--you sure you want counter seating? Do you need that vs. just seating in general? We've got a couple of comfy chairs in our kitchen, much more restful for the cook, and nicer for the chat-with-cook person. Just seems like that would fit beautifully into where Lavender wants.

@meganmca: I'm not married to the idea of counter seating! It seems like a versatile choice because the counter space can be used for prep, but I wouldn't be opposed to having a couple of chairs instead. Where would you put them?

@funkycamper, I can mock it up and see. I'm still concerned about the lack of storage space with the peninsula.

The reason I moved the doorway was to get the refrigerator into the kitchen, but here's another option that moves the fridge out of the kitchen a bit, and brings seating (and more storage) into the kitchen. What do you all think of this? The fridge would be pretty far from the sink, but I'd gain more walkway space between the fridge and the doorway. I'm not sure I've allowed enough knee space for two diners at a counter corner, though...

I wouldn't want people (especially kids) with their back to the stove. I like the earlier version much better :)

I was just looking at pictures of vintage kitchens, and lots of them had chairs in front of low windows. Maybe instead of a cart in front of the low window, I could put a chair. The baking counter will be about 32 inches...low enough to set down a drink or a book if you were sitting next to it.

Is this a crazy idea??

I don't think I'd want the chair IN my work area, but I like the idea. Maybe over by the radiator? Would that be too warm?

My thought was where Lavender put it (nice pic Lavender!), depending on chair/ actual amount of space, maybe even 2 of them? Presuming that's a hot water or steam radiator, it's not like it's on all the time anyhow & in a cold winter, it can be nice to be near one. Then the place you have the stools now turns into, oh, maybe a sorta serving area for parties? Or the needed-sometimes extra prep space, for when you're baking cookies & have a bunch that need to cool, that kind of thing.

@lavender_lass & @meganmca: Walking into the house through the back door, you'd walk right into those chairs. There wouldn't be any room to take your shoes off or hang something up. I don't think that would work but I'm going to put a chair in that spot and see...

Why would you walk into a chair in the corner? Don't you open the door all the way and walk in straight? I'm confused. I'd love to plop in a comfy chair in the corner to take off my shoes. Sounds good to me. And if I came in on a cold winter's day, to sit by the radiator would be heaven! I would probably plant myself there most of the winter. Comfy chair, heat from the radiator, view out the low window. More heaven, imho.

What do you need to hang? Where do you hang your coats now? In front of that window?

I actually prefer Lavender's comfy chair idea but here's a thought. Why not extend the counter and then have the small peninsula seating more into the corner? I was thinking something more like this. The counter next to the stove is longer so you gain storage there. The peninsula is 48" so you should still have room for two to sit there.

ETA: I don't know how hot radiators get or if this would create a fire hazard. Possibly some flame-proof product would need to be applied to the counter near the radiator for protection? I dunno. If that is an issue, I realize this idea might not work. So then do Lavender's chair! :)

You all are awesome. I think a chair in the corner will work best. Plus, I think this will look more bungalow-appropriate. Counter-height seating is pretty modern!

@funkycamper, radiator heat is fantastic. Not a fire hazard at all. Our radiators are cast iron, so they're about as hazardous as a cast iron pan that's been heated on the stove! They do get hot, but in the winter I love to put my bare feet up on a covered radiator. I think we'd build a cover for this one in the kitchen too. Then a visitor could rest a cup of tea or a cocktail on top as they sat there!

So, now that I'm committing to a chair in the kitchen rather than a counter seat, I have some new questions...

1) What do you think about the storage I've added next to the refrigerator? The 30" shelves (& both cantries) would be open counter-sitting boxes. I'd probably store my cookbooks and big bulk jars in the deeper shelves. I store everything in jars so the two "cantries" will be my main pantries, but I'm thinking of storing onions and potatoes in the drawers underneath the 30" shelves. Should I consider one of those mesh inserts for the drawer faces if that's what I want to do? Is 18" too deep for the shelves? Is 6" deep enough for a cantry? Is there too much countertop in front of the shelves that face the back door?

2) Is my new trash location okay?

Any other advice or suggestions for my layout?

Thank you!!

I like the chair! But why not have a single stool, just for you to sit and peel apples or go through a cookbook? My mom is really excited about her little 'sitting spot' in the kitchen....plus a more comfy chair near by.

Also, I would still flip the fridge and storage, so you could have a little more space for the drawers. Just an idea :)

@lavender_lass, with a side-by-side fridge shouldn't there be a landing space on either side?

landing space on either side of fridge

Also, I was using that 18" cab as a trash pullout...hmmm...

Well, what kind of fridge do you want, when you upgrade? I thought you said you were using this one until you could get another. If this is THE fridge, then that's one thing, but if you plan to change, I would not design the kitchen around a side by side.

Personally, I would like to have more upper cabinet and more space to work on the counter. I don't think the fridge on the end is a bad thing (message board with magnets?) but that's just me. We have an older fridge, but not vintage. It's white and works fine with the vintage look :)

Oh, I'm so glad you're going with the chair and, yes, I think it fits your home's era better. And now I'm wishing I had radiators to snuggle up next to. :)

And I love new words that are perfect. Cantries. I have a cantry, too. Two open shelves in my kitchen with quart-sized mason jars full of beans, peas, grains, rices, and baking supplies. Love it. It makes me remember to cook with them more often, too, so we get more variety. My shelves are 6" deep and they could really only be 5" and still have some bare shelf in front of the jar. Does that help? Cantry, lol, I can't wait to use that word.

You should have airflow for your potatoes and onions so, yes, to mesh or nixing the drawers and having open shelves with baskets for them. Don't store them together. One makes the other go bad quicker. I forget which.

And I think every kitchen should have a stool. You don't need a planned overhanging counter to use one. If you don't have pull out breadboards, you can always lay a cutting board over the top of an open drawer. It's nice when you've been on your feet a lot and have a big task. I also keep a TV tray close by in a closet so I can put a bowl on it and then have it lower than me and peel things down into it.

I'm unsure about the rest of our layout issues. I have a hard time reading that much detail in your plans as the background is so dark. Hope somebody can weigh in on that.

I think your kitchen is going to be so cute and comfy. I really hope you'll come back and share pictures of it when you're done. Ya know, that's really why we help people, so we can drool over their finished kitchens lol.

Just saw your landing space question. Ya know, I love the 31 Rules. The landing space issue is one that I'm iffy about. I have had two SxS's in my life and one had a landing space on one side only. On the fridge side which was, imho, the wrong side. The open door was in the way. So, to me, one on the left side of a SxS would be sufficient. My other had a work table about 4-feet from the front of the SxS. That was much more convenient, imho.

Since the stuff one gets out of a freezer is usually less, I'm less inclined to see the need for a landing space to the right of a SxS to place those items on. Just grab that frozen steak or ice cream container and take it wherever you are going to work with it.

Also, it does say that you can have minimum of 15" landing no more than 48" across from the fridge. How wide is your kitchen? How many steps from fridge to the opposite counter? Would that work?

Others may disagree and I do feel uncomfortable disagreeing with established rules but I really think this is one of the lesser important ones. YMMV.

I didn't follow your other posts, but you've labeled a new doorway on some of the drawings and noted how far the open dishwasher extends. I think the open dishwasher clearance is taking up valuable space. Can you move the doorway closer to the dishwasher? Then you can either move the fridge or put counter on that side of fridge. I only have the dishwasher open for a few minutes at a time and having it block the doorway would not be a big deal, especially since there are other entry points into your kitchen. (However, I noticed that my mother leaves her dishwasher wide open during her hour of cleanup after dinner... I guess it depends on one's work styles.)

ps- I love my Conestoga cabs. Have you taken advantage of the free design options (for framing beads, panel raises, etc?). I also suggest the custom utensil organizers for your drawers. I have 24" drawers and the organizers make them super roomy, and worth the $75 - $150, depending on size and style. I think your 18" drawers will be nice. I actually have one 36" drawer that is my least favorite because it is too big. It's just a catch all. Here is one of my 24" drawers:

@funkycamper, OK, you've convinced me! No cabinet to the right of the fridge! @lavender_lass is right, when I upgrade my fridge it will NOT be to a side-by-side so I shouldn't accommodate it now.

I've added a spot for a breadboard pull-out and a little stool. Turns out, we already have a breadboard in our existing cabinets! So I'll reuse it here.

I also added a tall, narrow cabinet for storing my vacuum and Swiffer (and more, I'm sure). Thoughts on this?

I hope you can read this:

@emilyam819: can you tell me more about the free design options?? Any other tips and tricks? I'm pretty pleased with this layout now, but if I were to play with moving the doorway up into the dishwasher pull-out territory, how far do you think I could encroach? 12 inches? The dishwasher pulls out 21 7/8 inches total.

Since you have limited counter space in the sink area (drain boards take up the space) I don't think you should plan around an open dishwasher at all. I think you need the trash or a bank of drawers on the side of the fridge. But you should ask yourself how many people would be coming from that room while you have the dishwasher open. What is that room?

if you go on Northern Granite and Cabinetry's website under catalogs, you can sign up and look at all of the products and options. You can basically custom design a door style. Just start with a (cheaper) door, put in a panel raise you like, choose a framing bead, whatever you want. It can be kind of hard to visualize, and it took me months to decide on all the options, but these are options that many other companies charge for. You can also specify dimensions to a quarter of an inch, I think, without an upcharge.

The way I look at your layout, the open DW door ends where the door to the kitchen begins, right? That seems perfect to me. But I'm one that prefers to keep the DW open the entire time I'm working in the kitchen, just plop things in when I'm done with them, and skip the whole bit with having to move items from the sink or counter into the DW. This makes clean-up virtually non-existent. So much more efficient, imho.

You need a trash next to your prep area and your prep area will be near the sink. Do you have enough space to the right of the sink? If not, how about under the sink. I've always had mine there so that's something I'm used to.

Thank you for posting with a lighter background.

Oh, the stool....love that you have a pullout breadboard to use. Now be sure you have a place to store the stool out of the way. Maybe in the corner behind the chair or right next to it?

Your kitchen is unconventional in a good way, imho. I think it's going to be great. Still wish we could have show-cased the view to that Chambers better from the dining room. But, nonetheless, I expect your kitchen will be quite charming.