I seem to recall that 'La France', 'Mme Caroline Testout' and, as recently discussed, 'Mrs. Herbert Stevens' have all been reported as growing successfully in colder climes, though I don't know how much winter protection they got. 'Captain Christy' is described by HMF as being hardy to 4b, though I don't know the source of that rating...

Good luck,

Virginia

Mrs Herbert Stevens for one. We had a recent discussion in another thread. Mme Caroline Testout is probably hardier than zone 7b that HMF lists but I would not know about 6a. I'm not speaking from experience of course. Just from my readings.

PS. Cross post with Virginia!

Unless you are really pushing the envelope with something like New Dawn, the biggest question is going to be what kinds can you get grafted. Even Radiance can't handle cold winters without a rootstock. Pickering used to carry a few. I don't know of any other sources.

There were a fair number of old HTs that J&P sold well into the 1990's that did reasonably well in zone 6 pockets around here. However, the same varieties from RU could barely make it through their first winter. Capt. Thomas had spreadsheets on the difference.

Mme. Caroline Testout, climbing, is root hardy for me in zone 5a, so I think she'd be more cane hardy in 6b. She is a reluctant bloomer on new wood, and she'd be much more robust with some surviving cane in 6b. All of the Meilland Romanticas are reliably hardy for me in zone 5 and would do fine in 6 - Auguste Renoir or Paris de Yves Saint Laurent are nice examples of a loose form among these HTs. The old fashioned Delbard HTs like Dames de Chenonceau or Comtesse de Segur are also reliably hardy and good bloomers for me. These latter bushes get quite large for me, which would have some of the effect of the teas elsewhere. Frances Meilland has a fairly old fashioned look and does well for me. Of course Francis Dubreuil probably isn't really a tea as sold in the US but the HT Barcelona, and he's basically cane hardy for me. Prairie Sunrise or most of the Buck HTs have relatively loose form and would be hardy without problems.

Gloire de Hollande has been through at least one winter though doesn't bloom a ton yet. Maid of Honor is a more modern HT but it's a nice blush apricot and blooms nonstop like a trooper. I've gotten winter survival from Rose Gaujard and President Plumecocq, as well as President Herbert Hoover, but they're pretty stiff HT bushes and not frequent bloomers. Shades of Autumn and some of the older Brownell HTs would also work and are usually hardy for me (though rarely the ones labeled as "sub zero" Brownells). I would avoid any of the Pernetianas or Dot HTs, as they are notoriously finicky with cold winters and very unreliable for me. She might have more options if you expand into the shrubs - for instance, the Rockwall Sesquicentennial from ARE has been covered all during its first year in tea-like creamy blooms and looks to be rated for my zone and more.

As MadGallica has commented many times elsewhere, it depends on where your friend is what we might be recommending, since zone 6 on the east coast is different than zone 6 here in the Midwest. The east coast is more likely to have reliable snow cover, which helps the winter survival and allows the benefits of the grafted plant to be realized by going into the winter with a more substantial plant. For me, I don't have reliable snow cover most winters, so i almost never have surviving cane on my HTs regardless of what I do. That means own-root plants work better for me, since I have a lot of grafts fail without that cover even when buried deeply. We do have hot summers, which allows the own-root plants to grow to a good size and have an equivalent chance of surviving the winters.

Regardless, I think there would be plenty of options, as I have 100's of HTs that overwinter just fine.

Cynthia

Cynthia, ditto on Barcelona/Francis Dubreuil, which has the additional bonus of a tea-like plant habit. I also agree with mad_gallica that own-root Radiance doesn't live up to the reputation for toughness, even here in 6b/7a.

Interesting reading. The bush variety of Madame Caroline Testout flowers reliably on a very small plant in my Swedish zone 5b (USDA zone). It hasn't grown much taller since 1997 but it's quite healthy and vital. Radiance from RVR is doing nothing. It's from RVR so I assume it's on its own roots? It did very well in a pot it's first year but I can't overwinter potted roses in my basement so Radiance is in the ground .I'll give it a few more years,

This would be in the northeast, not the midwest. I should have clarified. Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I imagine some of these would need to be sprayed? I seem to recall Madame Caroline is a Pernetiana; not sure about Mrs Herbert which I do not grow myself.

How about Lafter? To me, has an earlier look than its 1943 vintage. Rogue Valley rates it zone 4 & ARE (where it's in stock) to zone 5. Plus it's satisfyingly fragrant, a graceful bush own root, disease free no-spray here, and tip hardy through up/down Winter-Spring thaws/freezes where any snow cover seldom lasts for more than a few days. http://207.58.180.144/rose/l.php?i=A3725&tab=1

I don't know how "Tea-like" you can say it is, nor do I know exactly how cold-tolerant it is, but I think perhaps 'Belinda's Dream' deserves a look. I don't grow it, but it gets mentioned here a lot.

:-)

~Christopher

'Belinda's Dream' is not cane-hardy much below zero.

Oh, well.....

:-/

~Christopher

I agree that Lafter is a great suggestion, and mine is root hardy in my zone 4 pocket of the yard so it's probably cane hardy in zone 6. Here's a photo of some of the darker color blooms - in the heat they're closer to apricot blush

Here's a small spray of Heaven on Earth

And Mother of Pearl is what I was thinking of instead of Maid of Honor as a long-blooming rose with profuse blooms that fits well with OGR forms

And of course, getting out of the peach range, Savoy Hotel when happy has nonstop medium pink blooms all over the plant, in a very non-HT type growth, even though the blooms are mostly high centered. I really love this rose, and it can be cane hardy in the zone 6 pocket of my yard.

Here's a loose bloom of Paris de Yves Saint Laurent

And a nice cluster of Dames de Chenonceau

FWIW, my Belinda's Dream survives fine root hardy in my zone 4 pocket of the yard, but it doesn't get nearly as big as reported elsewhere and can be slow to start blooming in the summer (just got my first bloom a week or so ago). Perhaps the moisture you get on the east coast affects the winter survival in your eastern zone more - certainly mine is prone to balling (as you can tell on the edges) when few other roses do for me.

As for spraying, you'll get better advice from folks in your friend's eastern zone. The Kordes roses like Heaven on Earth are likely to do pretty well without spraying - in my zone, I don't spray anything as it's more dry and I have a high tolerance for blackspot anyway (i.e. I'm too lazy). All of these and the earlier ones I listed are clean for me without spraying, except for the balling from BD.

Cynthia

The Buck roses are indeed very pretty, but I think of them looking more like traditional HTs than Teas; in other words, colorful and modern rather than romantic and mysterious. Too cheerful for my tastes, most of them. Do any of them nod? I like the idea of huge, tea-sized shrubs as well.

It may be that what I am thinking of does not actually exist. I did look up Lady Hillingdon because I see it widely grown in England, and it is hardy enough for Zone 6A, but I don't know how big it would grow under those circumstances.

I think it was Peter Harris who claimed that the hardiest Tea rose in existence was New Dawn. It is definitely one way of looking at things. Maybe try to find roses that have some of the characteristics you are looking for but are rarely thought of in those terms. Gruss an Teplitz comes to mind as a possibility. Some of the Brownell roses may fit, but that is another group I won't touch without a good rootstock (and a reasonable probability of being virus free)

I can give you lists of roses that contemporary sources considered to be good bets for zone 6. The problem is that they were living in a very different world. When a two year old, budded plant was readily available for the modern equivalent of $15, you enjoy it while it lasts, and probably replace it with the latest when it doesn't come back. In the current situation, when such things have to be custom ordered, custom babied, and cost twice as much, it's a lot of time and emotional investment to put into a rose that is going to die sooner rather than later.

Cynthia, unfortunately 'Heaven on Earth' does blackspot here in the East, but I'm fond of the big, blowsy, nodding, fragrant blooms that are borne all over the plant.

Ah, too bad -- Heaven on Earth was the one that looked most tea-like to me, open and nodding. Not a big fan of New Dawn, which I have grown on the West Coast where it mildews unattractively. Perhaps this is not a problem in the East, and it is a better choice there.

Nice rose, Pat! Thanks, I'll keep that one in mind.

Love's Promise is a rose with a solid red color that has a strong tea fragrance; it smells like bergamot.

Lovely photo, Pat! Blossomtime survived a winter or two for me but never really bloomed, so I'd question its zone 5 rating. I expect zone 6 would be better, but for a climber you'd want it to be cane hardy. Lady Hillingdon didn't survive a winter, but I'm trying again in my zone 6 pocket with an extra zone's worth of protection. FWIW, I grow several teas in this area and some of them can survive and bloom, but rarely with any surviving cane. Maman Cochet and Madame Antoine Mari are probably the best of the bunch, but even in zone 6 they wouldn't be a "tea-sized" bush. Mine at best are around 3' high, though the blooms are obviously tea.

You might think about some of the Noisettes in zone 6 - Madame Alfred Carriere is root hardy and regrows like a champion from being trimmed to the ground in my zone 6 pocket, but she doesn't bloom on new wood. Same for Madame Isaac Periere, but I've gotten the occasional bloom this year on new wood for the first time. You could also look at Reine des Violettes - assuming you get a genuine RdV it can rebloom and the scent is lovely.

Let's see - big, droopy, and mysterious. Dames de Chenonceau and Comtesse de Segur fit the bill for me and stay pastel colors. The Kordes Lion's Fairy Tale (I have mine as Champagne Moment) is big, creamy and floppy - any idea on BS in the east coast, Michael? Too bad Heaven on Earth isn't more BS resistant for you.

I'll have to check my pictures at home and see what I might be able to suggest along those lines, including perhaps some shrubs.

Cynthia

I collect Old Garden Tea roses and I rarely see any rose in a different class that has the same degree of "exquisite delicacy" that is shown in a Tea rose blossom. The few roses that I do grow with my Tea roses that are suitable for a colder climate include:

Tea Hybrids: which have one Tea rose parent;

Souvenir de la Malmaison' which although is sold as a Bourbon is fully 1/2 a Tea class rose. Divine pink-flushed creamy blooms, the plant is floriferous. I planted 3 of these in a triangle at a local public Old Rose garden, which makes a mass of fragrant roses. One of the very best of the Old Garden Roses in my opinion..

Mrs. Herbert Stevens, is very lovely; the climbing form can be grown as a self standing "tree rose", c. 6-7 feet tall, with one thick central trunk, the delicate blossoms have the natural artlessness of a true Tea.

Mlle. Cecille Brunner' a Polyantha-Tea with dainty blossoms and a great fragrance, Spray Cecille Brunner is an excellent plant that can be grown as a hedge, or as a self standing "Tree rose" .

Early Hybrid Teas that retain some Tea rose character;

Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria' a white rose with a sweet graceful bloom style. Not pure white, it has some lemon tints to it according to conditions.

'La France'

'Snowbird'

nice fragrance and a lovely bloom shape.

Mrs. Jules Bouche' is as floriferous as a Tea rose and has a nice mixed floral scent.

The Pernetiana class has a few roses that would mingle well with Tea roses.

Duquesa de Pernananda' (sp?) reminds me of the Tea, Anna Olivier', but with richer hues.

If I could not grow my beloved Tea roses, I would grow the roses listed above.

Good luck on your quest to find cold climate Tea like roses.

i hope I didn't sound snooty Lux.

Lux, you sounded passionate about your roses, which is a different thing.

Thank you. That was the kind of list I was looking for. I was also sent a helpful email off the list that will be useful to me.

But this brings up a question. How would you train a rose such as Mrs Herbert Stevens or Spray Cecile Brunner as a free-standing tree with a single trunk? That sounds wonderful, much more appealing than a so-called tree rose that is a product of grafting and must be staked to stand. I saw such a rose growing in Kensington California near where Carol Markell used to live and we marveled at it. I would love to do this some time, but have no idea how it would be done.

Thanks for sending this list, Lux - your knowledge of roses and their histories is a tremendous asset to this forum. Your list is both helpful and a challenge for those of us in cold zones, since the more tea a rose has in its breeding the less likely it is to be winter hardy. Sadly, as these are lovely roses. Rosefolly - I don't know how much experience your friend has with rose growing, but hopefully the experiment with tea-like HTs won't discourage other roses in addition to these, if they don't survive zone 6 winters. They'd be advised to play around with some winter protection suited to their zones with most of these.

FWIW, in response to Lux's list, I haven't been able to keep any of the variations on Cecile Bruner alive in a normal zone 5 winter - I've tried Spray, Everblooming, and "Cecile Bruner, cl." with no other designation. Ditto most of the Pernetianas - I think one has survived, but the name escapes me. I've finally been able to keep SDLM alive over last winter after treating it like a tea with extensive protection in my zone 6 pocket, with Michael's guidance. I do have a 5-year-old Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria that should be fine in zone 6, though mine doesn't bounce back from the winter with much bloom or growth. No experience with the rest, and I'll be interested to try Mrs. Herbert Stevens this year, as she's come up several times in this discussion. As always, someone else's experiences may be different from mine, and a true zone 6 can make a lot of difference for a rose.
Best wishes to your friend and we'd love to hear a progress report when possible!

Cynthia

I took this picture of a Gruss an Aachen bloom nodding this weekend and thought of this thread.

I grew Gruss an Aachen in zone 5a western Massachusetts. Over-wintered fine over the 5 winters I grew it before moving back to CA and even survived voles eating half its root system one winter when the snow lay 4' on the ground for months. (The voles ate ALL the roots of about 12' x 5' of mixed perennial border plants that winter -- the border looked normal the day the snow melted off it finally but by the next day, everything in that stretch had wilted and THAT is when I discovered that every single plant was top only and no roots. I'm sure the look on my face at that moment would have looked like something in a cartoon!) I remember a little blackspot, but not overwhelming, and it bloomed well.

Thinking of how 'Mirandy' has flowers that nod when open, I wonder if it would do well in 6a. Mine was one of the few survivors after being left in its large pot unprotected over Winter. The plant itself is very HT, with an upright form.

:-)

~Christopher

Would Malton fit the bill? I got it from Germany as Fulgens and believed it was gallica. It's a hybrid china and has been hardy for 9 years in USDA zone 5b in Sweden without winter cover. It's a small bush.

Oh, that is pretty, Mariannese! It would not have the everblooming quality of a tea, but it certainly has the nodding blooms.