I seem to be having luck with Folklore, so I don't know if my recommendation will carry much weight.

That said, I do like what I've seen so far from Erotica-almost black buds opening to a nice shade of red, fairly constant supply of roses (at least so far, unlike Folklore) & haven't noticed any blackspot yet (which is an accomplishment in & of itself).

If you like Kordes roses, perhaps you should consider this Tantau selection?

By the way, I'll be in New Lebanon, NY this weekend-any chance of seeing your garden?

George

Jim,
Check out the thread about Heirloom. Digger's plant in Montana is incredible. The flower form is definitely not pointy HT.

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Oh, I am having a prety good time, so far, with hybrid teas. By far the best performer of ANY of my new roses is this on, Comtesse de Provence, aka Live Tyler. I bought this as a potted rose and planted it in May. It is already almost three feet high and has been blooming like crazy:

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I also have had a great time with Pope John Paul II. Gorgeous! Here he is in a vase with Comtesse and another HT, New Day:

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I also love Garden Party...so beautiful!

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Oklahoma:

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A lot of folks tell me this rose will be a dog, but she is doing very well so far for me; she had four great blooms, and is now throwing out new growth like there is no tomorrow. She does have a little blackspot, not too bad. Barbra Streisand:

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Now, granted, all these roses (as are most of my roses,) are brand-new to me this year. I cannot spak for winter-hardiness, but all are very, very healthy except for Barb. She has some aforementioned blackspot, and Okie and Comtesse have some PM but not bad at all. The yellow rose in the vase with PJPII and Comtesse is New Day. Gorgeous yellow, but it did blackspot pretty badly. Yesterday I cleaned off most of the infected leaves and the plant would look pretty pathetic if it wasn't already putting out a bunch of new growth. I went ahead and sprayed with Good health Roses organinc spray, mostly fish emulsion with some sesame oil in it. It is supposed to suppress PM and BS. I won't do it again next year. Everything here gets at least the first year for babying. After that it is sink or swim.

I think you just need to find the right HT.

A Kordes rose, Adolf Horstmann, is said to look good at all stages. As does Peace! Maybe that is why it was so popular. I've read here about the problem in finding a non-virused one.

Several of the above pictures also look like possible candidates.

George, New Lebanon!

Why zone 7? My rose garden is currently a real mess. The June bloom was the best ever. Somehow the weather lately as been to say the least very unusual. Seems to affect rebloom.

Anyway we should get together. I live in New Concord (East Chaham) and am in the book. Oh yes James W. Conners.

I'm not much help zone-wise, but I agree that the form and scent you seem to want are great in all the Romanticas. I have Liv Tyler, Sweet Promise, and Rouge Royale. They all have huge decorative blooms with lovely scent. I've had no disease problems with them, but I spray. They grow very well and have healthy foliage. Again, what grows here versus there can be quite different, as you know! Anyway, here's a not too great picture of Sweet Promise, a Romantica released last year. It blooms a lot and smells wonderful. The flowers are quite large.

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FWIW Limelight had trouble here making it through winters. And I tried it both ownroot and on multiflora. At the RBG in Burlington Ontario it was also knocked back to the graft at least one winter.

Ann

All these HT's I plan to keep in an area near the house in pots. They will over winter in my greenhouse. So another requirement is that they are smallish and not need a huge pot.

I did that last winter with a few and they survived with no problem. Including a climber.

Yup, I suggest 'Hinrich Gaede', and get this Jim: its a Kordes HT!

Here is a link that might be useful: Hinrich Gaede on HMF

Hi Jim.

As I will be up there this weekend, would you care for a cutting of Erotica?

Was also wondering (Kordes aficionado that you are) if you have Morgengruss and, if so, how it does for you?

Step-father's family is from East Chatham (I think that's what it is, anyway; somewhere on Rt. 295); but for some reason, at some point, there was a migration to New Lebanon.
I recall a garden at the spot on 295 with green beans & tomatoes that did well (especially the cherry tomatoes)-perhaps someone there might know about your location & soil problems? Reason for the trip is their family reunion (same day as my high school reunion-will be interesting to see how it all works) on Saturday.

Might go with some Kordes plants in the future (if I can find any own root; am getting leery of multiflora rootstock), though I am presently leaning more to Albas, gallicas, maybe 2 or 3 mosses, some Bourbons, some rugosas-once I see how the more modern roses I've obtained work out.

Just ordered from Rogue Valley (I GOT THE LAST MARIANNE-for anyone else reading, feel free to envy). Also ordered Felicite Parmentier, James Mason & Mrs. William Paul.

Am also hoping to get some (mostly gallica) cuttings from Olga & Robert in Va.. They'll probably be condemned once I get them, but I'll try.

George

Paul

Hinrich is out of the past! Imagine 1931 and orangey! Supposedly available from Sequoia and Vintage custom rooted. But now that S is closed or closing may not be. Nice looking though. Something that seems to come naturally to K's!

George

No on a cutting as I haven't done that for a long time and I'm going to CA this winter so won't be able to care for it.

Yes I have Morgengruss. It does well in the Spring but little if any repeat. But that is not unusual as I have a lot that don't. A test I suppose of my rose growing skill and or my soil, etc.

So where do you garden? From your mention of z7 somewhere I guess it isn't in E. Chatham or New L.

I mostly only grow on multiflora. So what is the problem with that as it seems to be the standard for Pickering, Hortico and others in Canada.

Jim,
Last night I went out to the greenhouse and budded a few sticks of understock with some 'Hinrich Gaede' buds. They won't be shippable until next Spring, I imagine, but I seriously doubt you will get it anywhere else now that Sequoia is gone. Vintage can take years to getting custom jobs done. I'll let you know how these fare.

PS: If I send you a plant of 'Hinrich Gaede', you have to be nice to David Austin for a whole year! *grins*

For Kordes HTs, I think you would like both Parole and Valencia very much. I am not totally sure how the blooms age on Parole compared to what you want, but I think of both of these as having big fat buds, as opposed to really pointy ones, and a higher number of petals that fill out the blooms nicely as they open. Both are good rebloomers, and have a noticeable scent--Parole more than Valencia. I am pretty sure my Valencia is from Pickering and my Parole is from Palatine.

That's a fine offer for Hinrich Gaede--you are lucky. I grow another Kordes HT from the '30s, Heinrich Wendland, which I should definitely try to graft. The colors and scent are tremendous, but the vigor (own root) is less than one might wish.

Patrick

Patrick,
I think this holds true for most HTs from the early 20th century, since the breeders never tested them on their own roots; they were budded to understock immediately and all evaluation was done on the grafted specimens. I firmly believe that most older HTs are nearly worthless when grown on their own roots.

Paul

I'm working on a post praising David Austin and his English roses. Really! And I even have an offer from a GW poster to buy me an Austin of my choice.

That would be great to get a Hinrich. Do you happend to also have Auguste Kordes? From 1928 a climbing sport of Joseph Guy?

Patrick

I've read good reports on GW about Valencia. It's a z6 rose something which I've shied away from in the past. But now that I'm trying to over winter pots in my greenhouse I might try it.

I'll check out Parole.

Sorry Jim, I do not have Auguste Kordes. :-(

I have Masquerade, a pink/blend hybrid tea from Palatine Roses in Canada that doesn't have the atypical high center pointed bloom of most HT's, but more of a flat decorative type of bloom with super heavy petal substance and so they last a looong time on the bush. The bish is quite large growing and very vigorous blooming. The blooms are not overly pretty, but different to be sure.
Wild Blue Yonder is a purple grandiflora that blooms a ton of very decorative shaped super fragrant blooms. No high centered form here either.
Lastly, Elina is a light yellow HT that for me has more of a loose decorative form that is somewhat flat as well. It really doesn't have the high centered form most exhibitors are looking for, though I do know that it is exhibited by some people on occasion. My Elina blooms would not be good exhibition blooms, but do make very nice garden type blooms as they are colorful and large and it repeats bloom very quickly.
John

I see John mentioned "Wild Blue Yonder".....that fits your description and grows well, no die back with no winter protection in Z5a. :0) I second that choice!! It's a large bloom!

I checked out Wild Blue Yonder on HMF. Most of the pictures show a rose which opens into a semi-double. Granted it has more petals than the usual SD but I''m looking for a flower that remains double.

WBY reminds me of another Carruth rose, Night Owl. It has the same coloration and similar flower form. Gets BS and defoliates for me. Otherwise does well in Spring.

How about a floribunda that doesn't look like one? Heaven on Earth is a gorgeous rose that is a apricoty pink. It has a good scent and looks more like a peony.

I love it and it is very popular with a lot of us on this forum.

Heaven on earth, wow, its' a Kordes. I've read about it here. Just checked the Combined Rose List and see it is not available from my usual sources, Pickering or Hortico. Not hardy enough? Also since it was released in 2004 not in any of my books. I'll have to check HMF.

Of the sources in the US, Jackson & Perkins I think ships grafted on Dr. Huey, not so good here. Regan also grafted but don't know what root stock to use. Then there are two other small nurseries listed. One near me Twombly. Will check them out.

:) You won't be sorry! I hope you can find it. I "rescued" mine from lowe's. I hope you find a source that will work for you.

I love my kordes roses too. I have quite a few.

Hi Jim, have you considered Rouge Royale? It sure doesn't look like a HT! :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Rouge Royale

No I've not considered RR although the pictures of it are great. Unfortunately there is no subsitute for looking at the real thing or for that matter growing it yourself. And even then it will take awhile to see how it does for you.

For example I planted Andre le Notre also a Meilland like RR. It is very much an Austin look-a-like. The flower is bautiful but so far not resistant to rain as the flowers turn brown. Perhaps that trait will change after the plant becomes mature.