FLsandytoes- Proofing the yeast was an interesting "new" twist to making fluffy bread in a bread machine, and one I've never come across. I think there are probably much better methods, but one just never knows..... I had a friend who used fresh yeast in his bread machine and it had to be proofed, so there are some applications for this process in a bread machine. I have a recipe for white sandwich bread that uses 1 cup of white cake mix, as another interesting example for making "fluffy" white bread, due to the soft wheat flour in the cake mix. FYI -- Two tablespoons of non-fat powdered milk, reconstituted, equals 1/2 c. of milk - which is a reasonable amount of milk in a bread recipe without causing crumb and crust problems. Much more than that and you will need to scald the milk first to avoid the textural problems caused by too much milk (from the milk whey protein). Heating the milk denatures the problematic protein. Try the recipe with 1/2 c. of milk and the remaining liquid water and see if you get different results. You will STILL need to adjust the dough for correct hydration (soft sticky ball) while it's starting to knead. --To improve 100% whole wheat bread, add an acidic ingredient, such as ascorbic acid. Some yeast products add ascorbic acid to the yeast. Yeast works better and longer in a slightly acidic atmosphere. There is a substance in wheat germ called Glutathione which breaks down the gluten - and is why we have trouble getting high-rising, fluffy, loaves of whole wheat bread without lightening the loaf by adding bleached/unbleached flour. By adding ascorbic acid it will help counteract the negative effects of Glutathione and will help repair broken gluten bonds (which is the cause of short, compact, squatty loaves). Add 1/8 t. of ascorbic acid (Fruit Fresh will work - it's a mix of ascorbic and citric acid) per 3-cups of flour. You may also find some recipes for 100% whole wheat bread that add lemon juice or vinegar for the same acidic effect, but it takes a lot more lemon juice or vinegar than it does ascorbic acid. You would have to use 6-times as much lemon juice to be as effective as ascorbic acid. -- Another way to lighten 100% whole wheat bread is to do a sponge with a portion of the flour for at least 1-1/2 hours, and as long as overnight. When I incorporated this method I got high-rising loaves of 100% whole wheat bread that were equal to any light-wheat and white breads I made. Soaking whole wheat flour helps lighten the loaf by softening the bran (bran cuts the gluten) and it gives the gluten time to absorb moisture, which creates strong gluten bonds without manipulation (kneading). I always use a sponge method for 100% whole wheat bread made in the bread machine. -- When adding 10-Grain Cereal Mixture, add it towards the end of kneading at the add-in beep. This goes for anything that may have a sharp edge, like nuts, dried fruit, etc. Adding dried fruit (raisins) early in the process and the kneading will pulverize them. If you add this coarse grind of grains/seeds/beans early in the dough making process it will cut the gluten strands as the dough kneads and you'll end up with a short squatty loaf because of the cut gluten. I prefer adding a dry mixture at the add-in beep because I like the "toothy" nuggets from the cereal mixture. If you don't want that much texture, you may want to soak the mixture first, but still wait to add it at the add-in beep towards the end of kneading. -- Another way to improve 100% whole wheat bread is to wait to add the salt and fat after the dough is kneading and the gluten is well developed. Once you add salt, the gluten tightens and kneading is more difficult - with a bread machine or by hand. Adding the fat early in the mixing/kneading "shortens" the gluten strands and development for a finer textured loaf. You can make the exact same recipe, and by adding the fat early or adding the fat late, it will alter the crumb and size of the loaf. Adding fat early for a close crumb (bread used for sandwiches), add it late for a more open crumb (bread used for toasting). These options are neither right or wrong - but are options to help control the crumb of the bread. --The same bread making rules and techniques that apply to making bread without the bread machine also apply to making bread IN a bread machine - such as when to add salt and fat. Bread machines are designed to make bread quick and easy and doesn't always take into considerations these rules and techniques. -- Check the dough for proper hydration while it's kneading, not after it's rising, while you still have time for the ingredients to be mixed into the dough. -- I only use the bread machine for mixing and kneading dough. As soon as it has completed the kneading I stop the bread machine and remove the dough and place it in a dough-rising bucket. I don't want a machine with a timed rise to determine when the dough has "doubled", which is actually determined by the strength of the yeast, moisture and ambient temperature, not a clock. If I have 1-quart of dough patted into the bottom of the dough-rising bucket, I know it has doubled when it gets to the 2-quart line -- whether it takes 25-minutes or 1-hour. In fact, it's better to only allow dough to rise to just UNDER double because our flour no longer has the extensibility it did as when it was bromated, and whole wheat flour was never bromated. The reasons not to use milk for proofing: 1. Water is more reliable than milk. 2. When proofing yeast in milk use 4-times the amount of milk as yeast. Yeast also tends to clump in milk and not proof as well. If you have to stir the milk/yeast mixture, you will end up killing some of the yeast. 3. Yeast works best with sucrose (table sugar) over lactose (milk sugar). 4. Yeast granules can become coated with milk fat (much like fat coats flour when making pastry) which can restrict water from entering and dissolving the yeast. -Grainlady

MacThayer - This is my first opportunity since Saturday to check in and I was so pleased to find this recipe. As it happens, I'm making Vermont Oatmeal Maple-Honey Bread from the KA cookbook as I write. I went out and bought a couple new bread pans before the weekend, and thought I ought to get right back to my bread baking attempts before I lost my enthusiasm. The recipe is an all-purpose/whole wheat combo with rolled oats. I've measured all my ingredients on a scale and tested my temps with a thermometer. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.... The recipe you sent sounds wonderful, and thank you so much for the detailed tips. I will follow the recipe exactly and let you know how it turns out!

ohiomom - Not having made the recipe you posted, but comparing it to the Pillsbury recipe, I'd certainly try it at a lower temperature. You might lower it by 25°F and check the results, then lower it another 25°F the next time, etc., until you get the results you want. I probably wouldn't lower it below 350°F. You'd also want to test the loaf for doneness by using an instant read thermometer - between 190-200°F. The loaves in the Pillsbury book look like traditional, high-rising, domed top loaves. Your loaf looks like it has a nice crumb, but it also looks like it didn't rise properly or deflated from over-proofing, perhaps due to the adjustment of the salt. In your recipe, I think I'd use at least 2 to 2-1/2 t. of salt for that amount of flour/yeast. I believe the minimum "average" amount of salt in yeast breads is 1/3 t. per 1 cup of flour. When you divide that much sodium per serving, it's actually very little sodium per 1-ounce slice of bread. Salt adds a lot of flavor, but if you're like me, I've eliminated a lot of dietary sodium, so less is best for my tastebuds. "Old" recipes do tend call for more salt than I typically use, and I adjust them according to my tastebuds. The rule of thumb is, when you adjust the salt in a yeast bread recipe, adjust the yeast by an equal amount. For instance, if you reduce the salt by 50%, then adjust the yeast by that much as well. But as with all "rules" concerning breadmaking, there is always a way to break the rules and breadmaking is all about contridictions. There are many ways and techniques to make bread, and bread is quite individual. How many of us have made a loaf of bread and accidently left the salt out of it entirely, and still got a loaf of bread.... Salt has these functions in yeast breads, so if you reduce or increase salt, you may affect these things from the science perspective. 1. tightens gluten 2. enhances flavor 3. slows yeast activity 4. controls bacterial growth For those of you who lack a pilot light to warm your oven for proofing dough, check the temperature of your oven with a thermometer (with the door closed, light on, and 20 minutes to warm up). I've noted in my oven it stays a perfect 80-85°F - in the farthest corner away from the light. It's too warm close to the light or in the middle of the oven. But to contradict bread "rules" again, dough rises just fine at much colder temperatures, it just takes longer than when using an optimum temperature and optimum humidity. Cold rises actually contribute a lot of flavor to bread. -Grainlady

Yes, white whole wheat flour can be used for cookies. And yes, there is hard and soft white wheat as plllog explained. There are also spring hard/soft white or red wheat and winter hard/soft white or red wheat to get even more complicated than things really need to be. And don't forget durum wheat (the type of wheat best used for pasta/noodles) and all the ancient varieties. Before going gluten free, I used a large number of wheat varieties: durum, hard spring white, hard winter white, soft spring white, hard winter red, hard spring red, triticale (a hybrid of wheat and rye), as well as spelt, kamut, and einkorn (ancient varieties). I saved soft white wheat (because it was so expensive -purchased from Bob's Red Mill) for some (not all) quick breads, biscuits, and pastry, as well as for cakes (especially delicate chiffon and angel food cake). I would use a 3:1 mix of soft white wheat and spelt OR oat groats (milling flour myself) for a low-protein flour similar in protein to cake flour. I also milled rye, barley, sorghum, and many other grains/seeds/beans for flour. I milled the mixture of grains into a very fine flour and made sure to sift it (removing any large pieces of bran) before using it for cake. Since you may not have any soft white wheat flour available for your cookies, just make sure when making cookies (or anything leavened with chemical leavening - soda, baking powder) NOT to over-mix them or you will develop too much gluten and will get tough cookies or baked goods using regular (hard) white whole wheat flour. This is yet another time I suggest using a Danish Dough Whisk (or a wooden spoon) instead of a stand or regular mixer. Keep mixing to a minimum once the flour has been added. If you use white whole wheat flour in a recipe that is designed for bleached or unbleached all-purpose flour, you may find you need to add a little more hydration, OR reduce the amount of whole wheat flour by 1-tablespoon from each cup of flour called for in the recipe, and adjust accordingly, if needed. If you can find recipes that specifically call for whole wheat flour you will find you have better results until you get accustomed to using it. Check your public library for wholegrain cookbooks. The recipe at the link below from the Kansas Wheat Commission is one of my favorites using 100% whole wheat flour :-). This recipe will work with either white or red whole wheat flour, but white whole wheat works best due to the flavor differences. If you want to kick it up a notch, add 1/8-1/4 t. of Fiori di Sicilia (an all-natural citrus and vanilla scented flavoring from King Arthur Flour - but caution, a little goes a long way). You may want to take a look at their recipe collection for a lot of great recipes using whole wheat flour. I've collected the Kansas Wheat Commission Recipe Books for years (free when you attend the Kansas State Fair in Hutchinson, KS) and have them going back several decades. -Grainlady Here is a link that might be useful: Whole Wheat Sugar Cookies