Ok, so I have (hopefully) mastered the science of posting pictures and (hopefully) the following are my picture comparisons of the two versions of Marie Pavie. The first two are the Chamblee MP's: Another Chamblee's picture: The following are shots of the flowers of the Vintage version: Another Vintage: And another Vintage: The Vintage flowers are just a bit fuller and rounder, to my eye at least. I do love Celestialrose's pictures of her plant - the flowers are very cute! Lou - I discovered Abelia a year or two ago and I can vouch for it's wonderfulness! I have Edward Goucher (beautiful dark green with pink flowers but a large plant), Silver Anniversary (smaller shrub) and Kaleidescope (can never remember how to spell that). I almost ordered the Rose Canyon this year........

Sherry, I don't have spider mites, so that is not why my Marie Daley looks bad. There is some blackspot, and also what I dub "Florida Crud". Lisa at Countryside roses told me to stay away from Marie Pavie if I was no-spray, as she blackspots and gets cruddy for her. I didn't ask about Marie Daley specifically, but I'm assuming because they are related that Marie is a problem here also. This is my second try, from a different vendor, so I personnaly do not feel that these two will look good for at least half the year here in Florida, with our particular strains of fungus. For someone who sprays chemicals, she probably stays clean. I won't spray chemicals. By the way, it is too hot down here to spray Daconil. It burns the roses, so I wouldn't use it at all if I were you, unless you want to defoliate the bush for some reason. If you have spider mites, you would be able to see them if you hold a sheet of white paper under the leaves and shake them. Sherry, don't feel you aren't a smart enough mother to your roses. I don't feel Marie Pavie can be grown no-spray here and look good for a prime location. However, if you're not ready to give up yet, that is fine. All I know is I've tried this rose over the past few years, and my tolerance level is not willing to put up with it. If mine were not in a pot, I wouldn't care if Michael ran over mine with a lawnmower. Judith, you should start your own worm bin. It's fun, and they become pets. Well. sort of....:) For the most user friendly and easiest way to do it, I would suggest investing in a unit like the Can O Worms. It can be done in Rubbermaid containers, but I don't think it would be as nice to do it that way, or as easy. Sandy

'Marie Daly' is a great performer in my garden. Like Jeff, I also prefer her over her twin, 'Marie Pavie', but that's just a personal preference and no knock against 'Marie Pavie'. My 'Marie Daly' is extremely fragrant, all the time. Like most polyanthas, there are lots of blooms coming and going at all times resulting in lots of spent blooms on the plant. Personally, I can't keep up with the deadheading on any polyantha, so I don't even try. Which means my polys aren't always the tidiest looking plants in my garden. Both Marie's have excellent plant shape in my opinion, and are mannerly growers. Like the other Marie, there are very few, if any thorns. But there are some tiny prickles underneath many of the leaf mid-ribs (they're basically harmless). Randy

I bought 2 Marie Pavies and 2 Marie Daleys from ARE and planted them around the end of Dec, 2007. MP got bigger - easily twice as big. Neither did well here from the beginning IMHO, but MP has done better. MD's color was pink in the bud, barely pink upon opening, and whitish thereafter. Very little difference from MP. They both have suffered from tan leaves, not exactly BS, but sickly looking and very little blooming through the summer. I tried to move the MDs to pots, but they croaked in short order. Maybe my thumbs aren't as green as they need to be. The weather is becoming cooler, and it shows. MP has more flowers, bigger leaves - though still a good many tan leaves. I'm not real pleased with them, but they are young. My opinion of the EarthKind rating is that it may be irrelevant in humid conditions - which much of Texas is not. We'll see now that our humidity is about to break how MP does, but we will never have 10 or 20 percent humidity in Florida! All of this that I have described may be summer dormancy, too. Most everything in my garden (Teas, HMs, GaA & even Chinas - except Monsieur Tillier) dropped their leaves and stayed bare for more than a month in August & September. I am really hoping that with maturity will come the ability to handle the heat better. But back to Marie Daley...I was unimpressed. Sherry