Hi, Sherry,

My new Marie Daley is much the same. It is in a large pot and on it's 3rd bloom cycle. That said; For the heart of the Florida rainy season, it looks and is producing so much better then most any other OGR I have here in my no-spray garden.

So.. I am pleased with it and have high hopes for the fall and winter performance. Also, you should know I have a VERY high tolerance for no-where-near-perfection in my roses. The only time I spade prune is if they keel over and die. Even then, I may wait a few weeks to make sure that that is their true decision.

Veronica,
Thonotosassa, FL

I can sympathize--I bought three Marie Pavie from Chamblees this spring and put them at the front of my border. They ARE growing and blooming, but first they had BS something fierce (they've since shaken that off, with the help of Bayer and Daconil). My biggest problem with them, though, is that I can't see the $%@#& blooms. They nod, flop, and hide under the foliage and on the ground--the stems grow upright with buds, above the foliage, but as soon as the bud clusters open, the weak stems collapse and the flowers flop face-down or become invisible. I'm trying a more severe experimental deadheading regimen, essentially cutting further down on the stems than a polyantha would like, to try to generate stronger, less-spindly new growth, but I wonder if I should just chalk this up to their being young plants that will grow stronger with age. If they are still like this next year, I might replace them with something sturdier--I'm thinking "Little White Pet".

I have both roses and they are BS free in hot, humid Maryland weather. What was a problem when both were young was spider mites. They really messed up both and made for ugly-looking, yellow/brown bushes. I trimmed the lower branches and stepped up the watering and the problem went away and they have been fine since.

Rosyjennifer, really??? I don't know anything about spider mites, but these yellow brown leaves don't look like BS so you must be on to something. You know, my daylilies are plagued with yellow-streaked leaves. I wonder if these bugs bother them, too. I'm going to get educated real quick. I REALLY appreciate your jumping in on this. Is that really all you did to fix the problem? No bug spray or anything?

Sandy, Veronica & prairie-rose, I think we may have an answer!

Sherry

Gee, I hope I helped! : ) I too, didn't know what the problem was at first, but did some research and ID'd the problem.

Look for very fine webs, spotted leaves, and dried out leaves mostly at the base of the plant. I never had a problem w/ mites before, but I understand they are a problem w/ minis because the branches are close to the ground and the mites hop on.

There are many people who know more than I do on this subject, but I was told not to use chems to kill mites because the chems kill bugs that can keep normal mite populations in check.

After you trim the low-hanging branches and open the base up a bit, spray the rose several times a day with a blast of water. Supposedly the blast of water (stop reading now if you are squeamish) kills the mites b/c their sucking parts stick to the leaves, but their bodies are blasted off by the stream of water. After a week or so I saw a marked improvement.

Good luck!

Thank you, Jennifer. I will look tomorrow. The water spray cure sounds like sweet revenge to me. Lol.

Hey, no time like the present! Got a flash light & my pruners and went to town. Hosed them with a jet spray and will do that daily for a while. I read that, too, about the predators being killed by insecticides. You're a lifesaver, Jennifer. And I'm glad to hear that they really are disease resistant roses where you are. That encourages me that they may be OK.

Thanks again.

Sherry

I SP'd my Marie Daley a couple of years ago. It was always plagued with blackspot and was very stingy with the blooms. I replaced it with Perle d' Or and it is a real champ!
molly

prairie-rose,
My plant's blooms nod occassionally, mostly on new shoots, but most are upright. I love these fragrant, graceful roses, so don't give up yet!

I'd love to hear back to see if your plants recover after the water treatment. I think the mites suck from under the leaves, if I recall, so spray under the leaves, too.

Blast away! : )

sherryocala --hope you have found the cause of your rose problem. I might be able to help you with those yellow-streaked daylily leaves. That's probably leaf-streak virus (one of my daylilies suffers from this every year). The only "cure" I know is to spray it with Daconil--perhaps several times. I could find no "natural" way to treat it when I researched it online.

Hope that helps.

Kate

Mine stayed covered with BS in Louisiana. I think I ran the lawnmower over it before I moved.

M

On my way out to work this AM I looked at one of the yellow/brown leaves (most were thankfully gone due to the hosing.) On the underside were tiny yellow spots which sounds like the description for spider mites plus there were the crispy brown curled up leaves. So I think we have the correct diagnosis. I have not seen BS on these bushes. I thought the cause of the yellow leaves was chlorosis so I did give them a dose of iron sulfate for it. :)) I guess it didn't hurt them, but this has been going on all spring. The poor plants wish they had a smarter mother, I bet. So hopefully, they'll be leafing out again pretty soon - and they'll be beautiful.

Thanks, Kate, for the info on the daylily virus. I'll have to check out that daconil stuff. Does this stuff have any consequences for a no-spray organic garden that you know of? Do you have to totally cover the plant with the spray - undersides and all? They really look ratty this way. Do you know if this virus effects the blooming or just the leaves?

michaelalreadytaken, I read your post and thank you, but I'm choosing to ignore it.

Molly, good to hear about Perle d'Or. I haven't planted mine yet - still a baby. My plan is to give it the prime location of the garden - the center of the grass circle, so your post is good news! I understand it's a pretty bush. I'm hoping for a nice round shape.

Sherry

Rosyjennifer--thanks, good to know that they start to "stand up" more reliably. I can take some nodding, but mine are extremely weak and floppy. But I think it's because they're young plants. I will give them at least another year. It's only because I planted them in a primo spot right at the front of the border that I was so annoyed with the blackspot and the floppiness--worst comes to worst and they prove not to deserve the front-lines, I can use them elsewhere, because they are at least not obnoxious, growth-habit wise--and they smell so good.

Sandy, you're right about the worm castings. Where I order them, they're very expensive, $8 for a 3L bag, so I just spread it thinly on my potted plants (roses, clems, bulbs and perennials). Seems to be working well.

I hope to find a place that sells much larger bags, and not quite so pricey, in order to give my garden roses a little treat. It doesn't take much to do the trick..maybe it's time I started my own worm bin..
Judith

Sherry,

I don't have spider mites, so that is not why my Marie Daley looks bad. There is some blackspot, and also what I dub "Florida Crud". Lisa at Countryside roses told me to stay away from Marie Pavie if I was no-spray, as she blackspots and gets cruddy for her. I didn't ask about Marie Daley specifically, but I'm assuming because they are related that Marie is a problem here also.

This is my second try, from a different vendor, so I personnaly do not feel that these two will look good for at least half the year here in Florida, with our particular strains of fungus. For someone who sprays chemicals, she probably stays clean. I won't spray chemicals.

By the way, it is too hot down here to spray Daconil. It burns the roses, so I wouldn't use it at all if I were you, unless you want to defoliate the bush for some reason.

If you have spider mites, you would be able to see them if you hold a sheet of white paper under the leaves and shake them.

Sherry, don't feel you aren't a smart enough mother to your roses. I don't feel Marie Pavie can be grown no-spray here and look good for a prime location. However, if you're not ready to give up yet, that is fine. All I know is I've tried this rose over the past few years, and my tolerance level is not willing to put up with it. If mine were not in a pot, I wouldn't care if Michael ran over mine with a lawnmower.

Judith, you should start your own worm bin. It's fun, and they become pets. Well. sort of....:) For the most user friendly and easiest way to do it, I would suggest investing in a unit like the Can O Worms. It can be done in Rubbermaid containers, but I don't think it would be as nice to do it that way, or as easy.

Sandy

Both my Marie Daly and my Marie Pavie look great in the spring. Fabulously good, in fact.
When summer arrives, they remain healthy, but I admit I'm not crazy about the tan-colored spent blooms that hang all over the plants.
They are both, nice shapely plants for me, but the summer blooms are insignificant in appearance ... at best.
In my opinion, they are worthy for my garden because of their spring perfection and their year-round fragrance.
Just don't look at them in the summer ... enjoy the fragrance emanating from them and look at your summer tropicals, tea roses, hybrid musks, etc :-)

Randy

Sandy, I will start checking out some catalogues and investigate worm bins. One more thing to stick in the garage over winter...sigh...

Judith

Michael, I should have put a smiley face after telling you I was ignoring your remarks. I didn't mean to be rude, simply choosing to be deaf, dumb and blind to certain facts. :))

The Daconil was for the daylilies not the roses.

Speaking personally, after a lifelong tendency to bail when things get tough, I have determined to try every reasonable effort to make the roses that I have spent money on successful, hence, my plaintiff cry to the lovely people on this forum. My reasons are simple and probably not unique: I can't afford to pull out roses at the first problem; I will not waste a plant that might survive; it is likely that a remedy may be found but not if I dig up the rose too soon; I will not quit on a rose after 6 months in the ground - if I did it to Pavie, it could become a habit. If it were 3 years, that would be another thing entirely.

I appreciate everyone who offers their experience, good or bad, because it builds my database of useful rose information. I also appreciate how helpful everyone is with very few exceptions. And I appreciate that 99.something% of the time the diversity of individual thinking is respected here and 99.something% of the people have a sense of humor.

Randy, I'm really trying to be tolerant of some roses' seasonal inadequacies - that's my goal anyway. And at this point I have not seen the wonder of the Maries in spring so I want to be patient to see if the wonder outweighs the ugly. Your comments were helpful in their honesty. I'm learning that sometimes we rose lovers must grit our teeth with the ones we love and remember better days are coming. Thank you for your seasoned perspective.

Sherry

I have two Marie Pavies from the same clone, one a mature rooted cutting from the other, plus a Marie Daly. The M Pavie at the front of the moderately congested foundation bed near my front porch hasn't been nearly as BS resistant as the other, which is planted in a much more open area in the right of way next to the street. The sun exposure is about the same, and the street side plant has neighbors to its left and right, but there's nothing in front or behind that restricts air flow. It's a happy, healthy rose. The other M Pavie has been the been the most spot prone rose in its bed with the possible exception of Marie Daly, which has the same problems.

I plan to move M Daly out to the right of way after it cools down in the fall, now that I'm not so worried that the city will mow down anything I plant there (even the crew that resurfaced the road a couple of summers ago were very protective of the roses). And the foundation M. Pavie has a new home waiting for it in a neighbor's yard.

The polyantha that has done really well in the foundation bed is Mevrouw Nathalie Nypels. It's upright and sturdy, densely foliated, blooms continuously all season, and does not spot.