New Furnace/Central AC Installation

9 years ago

Hello. Hoping I can get some subjective advice from professionals regarding my new furnace/AC that I am getting quotes on now. I dug up local installers who got the highest reviews for customer service. I've had 2 quotes and I'm getting a third tomorrow.

I live a 2 story 1200 SF bungalow in Cleveland, OH, south facing, with no shade trees. The exterior walls have blown-in insulation. The lone 170 SF second floor bedroom is supplied by a single 6" duct. There's no return. There's no second door at the top of the stairs - just the door to the bedroom.

UNIT SIZE:
Of the two quotes I had, each had a differing opinion of the size of the AC unit I needed.

Contractor A recommended a 2.0 ton unit, stating that a house of my size wouldn't allow a 2.5 ton to run long enough to take the humidity out of the air thus making it feel cool but slightly damp.

Contractor B said that he would agree with Contractor A if it was a single level house, however he said that his experience with my type of house is that the AC units struggle way too much to cool the upstairs and that a 2.0 ton unit will barely cool it at all although the unit would be running all day long trying too keep it cool. He said the 2.5 unit would struggle much less, but would still be on long enough to adequately remove the humidity from the air. However he did warn me that on those 90 degree days it still may not be very cool upstairs.

BRAND:
Contractor A quoted me Rheem Prestige Series for both the furnace and AC
Contractor B quoted me Carrier Comfort Series for both the furnace and AC

The Carrier quote was a couple hundred more than the Rheem was, however the Carrier was 2.5 ton and the Rheem was 2.0 ton.

Anyone have good or bad experiences with these units?

Any insight, suggestions, or advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Comments (4)

mike_home
9 years ago
My first advice is to find a contractor who will do a load calculation. The contractors should not be guessing whether you need a 2 or 2.5 ton condenser. My initial thought is the 2 ton size would be more than adequate. The upstairs bedroom is going to be warm because it only has one supply vent. That is not going to be enough for a second floor bedroom that is 170 sq. feet. If the bedroom door is kept closed at night the air flow will be even worse.

Did you get model numbers with your quote for the furnace, condenser, and coil? If not your quote is incomplete. Carrier and Rheem are good equipment, but you should avoid the low end models.

How do the equipment sized compare with what you have now? Is the scope of work documented in the quote?
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tigerdunes
9 years ago
If feasible, you should add a return to upstairs bedroom and possibly enlarge the sgl supply...
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The price of propane is rising, isn't it? In this case, I'd consider heat pumps that will switch over to propane when the temperature is low enough to warrant the use of propane over the efficient heat pumps (around 35-40* or so). Few matchups will get near the 19-20 SEER range. You need the sizes and full model numbers of the equipment being quoted to know for sure. Trane, Carrier and Bryant all make fine products. If going with Carrier, ask for a tin-plated copper coil (heard of leaking problems with Carrier's *ACA standard copper coils--I guess all mfg's have leak problems). The Infinity/Evolution is a nice system. I personally favor Trane over Carrier--I think Trane's quality is hard to beat, but that's just my opinion. I do wish the XL19i was available in R410A, but that will be a little later. Is your electricity particularly expensive? Going with the top-of-the-line SEER/units may not have a great payback. 20 years old? They've done their time. As far as duct noise goes, if your ductwork is sized correctly, then you should be fine. However, the variable-speed blowers maintain proper CFM and will overcome slightly deficient ductwork systems. If the ductwork system is undersized/deficient, it will be louder as it attempts to maintain proper CFM (versus the PSC blowers where if the ductwork was poor it wouldn't vary its speed to maintain airflow). If it's quiet now, I don't think it will be a problem--I'm just pointing this out about variable-speed blowers. Once you get a few quotes, post back with the info and we can advise.
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Throw out the bid that wants to install a 3 ton a/c on a furnace that only has the capacity to move 2 tons of air. You currently have a 1.5 ton unit. You cannot double this size. Not only is it not warranted, but your ductwork would not handle the extra airflow. Looks like the quick 500 sqft per ton rule, which is highly inaccurate. The 15 SEER heat pump would only be 15 SEER (or close to it) if the new furnace also had a variable speed fan motor. I think for others to advise you on the payback/savings part of your question, they'll need to know your current gas and electric rates.
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marzhere have no idea what Equinox is and would never recommend Goodman unless it was a case of budget consideration. obviously, you are grossly oversized with current furnace. I like the Lennox quote better with their modulating furnace. what stat was quoted? one thing though with the Lennox G71 is I don't believe it modulates up and down as demand changes. They may have worked this perculiarity out. ask dealer about this. don't think your load calc would be reliable. however, living area below grade usually calls for only small amount of heating and cooling. you would want a damper at the very least to help control the supply line airflow to this zone. Insist on a written load calc on software letterhead and review very carefully. you will need some type of air filter cabinet. was one quoted? and I would recommend new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset especially since you are going down in size on AC by 1/2 ton. post evap coil mdl number quoted. IMO
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Not a PRO, but I believe that TDR stands for time delay relay, which might affect fan operation. To expand on what Tiger said, different brands of modulating furnaces behave differently with regard to staging (heat levels). Speaking as a Rheem (mod) owner, the thermostat 'knows' what the set point is, but also, the indoor temp. So, let's say, that on recovering from a setback, knowing how many degrees it needs to heat, it will start out at as high a level as it needs to in order to heat things up. As the home approaches set point, its heat loss lessen, and thus the heat input will progressively modulate LOWER. Throughout the day, responding to indoor or outdoor conditions, the stat will respond by directing the heat input higher or lower (without regard to previous cycles). So leaving the doors/windows open, or running multiple ovens will elicit response (up or down) at any time. Other brands may differ in their response. They will start out at a given rate (some based on previous cycles) and ramp up over time until the stat is satisfied. Not good for a large setback. They may not have the ability to ramp down during the same cycle. Thus the up/down scheme. Without being specific as to brand, your mileage may vary. V
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Jason
Original Author
9 years ago
@mike_home the 2nd contractor who recommended the 2.5 ton unit was entering info into some sort of software and supposedly he was doing a load calculation. They did provide me model #'s for the furnace and AC, not the coils. The 2nd contractor did indicate that he only uses cased coils.

The Rheem I was quoted is the top of the line Rheem model, the Carrier I was quoted is their low-end product line.
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mike_home
9 years ago
Ask the 2nd contractor if you can have a copy of the load calculation. He may not want to share it with you, so try to get as many as the details as possible. I am a bit skeptical of what he did to generate his results. But then again a contractor who does load calculations everyday can generate a result for a small house quickly.
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New Furnace/Central AC Installation

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