When you close your eyes and run your hand across the floor perpendicular to the way the boards run, is the floor tactile? Can you feel the edges of each board?

@weedyacres --

When I close my eyes & run my hand across the floor --

it most places it dips down. On some boards -- there is clearly an edge raised higher than the board next to it.

@gregmills -- I don't know. but you are right they didn't keep things consistent. The hardwood floor was installed when there was NO HVAC and the wet trades were NOT done yet (i.e. plumbing, painting, tile, masonry were not done yet).

It was installed when it was very hot & very humid (Kansas City last August). I'm pretty sure it was stained around October -- when they probably weren't using the HVAC at all.

We have Certified Inspector coming out May 11.

Be more specific. What do you mean by "new"?

Was this finished last week, last month or last year?

What is the moisture level in the top and bottom of the boards and in the subfloor. Does it have a moisture barrier underneath? What is the RH range indoors? What was the RH range during installation and acclimation? What type of subfloor? Crawl space? Was the floor acclimated before and/or after installation? Was the floor slightly cupped before it was sanded?

Without further information, my guess would be that you have cupping or reverse cupping that happened after the floor was sanded and finished. Whether it should look like that would be determined by whether the floor was acclimated properly and what type of forces may have affected it after it was finished.

Hardwood floor was installed in a new home about last August with NO HVAC and prior to wet trades being finished. It was sanded and stained probably in Oct. We moved into the new Home in Feb. No it was not properly acclimated when installed or after -- they couldn't control the temp or the humidity and when it was installed it was not normal living conditions.

There are lots of problems & issues with this floor -- from the installation, sanding and finishing. We have gaps, cracks, bubbles, pin holes, some 'puddling' and some areas by door jams where it looks like no top coat at all. Here's another post with some pics of the other problems: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2991772/hardwood-floor-installed-before-hvac-now-problems

It does sound like crowning. I'll be anxious to see what the inspector says.

The guy who did the floor tried to tell me it's all normal. NOT if they would've controlled the temp / humidity like they're supposed to do!

Thankfully our builder agreed to get a certified inspector.

The other issues (bad finish) notwithstanding, controlling the humidity and temperature of a jobsite isn't generally the responsibility of the floor installer. It's not something they can control and they are generally reluctant to refuse to install unless conditions are ideal.

From flooring forums like this I've learned that floor movement in areas with huge seasonal changes in humidity is an issue, leading to cupping, crowning and gapping. I'm in Florida where the humidity probably doesn't swing as much as it does in Kansas.
It's good that you're getting an inspector. They'll most likely tell you that the issue you have is caused by seasonal swings and hopefully rule out any more serious issues. Dependent on the floor and subfloor moisture levels, I would recommend it sit through a full year then be resanded. If you get 0% humidity during a cold winter, they might recommend you install a whole home humidifier.

Good luck!

We do have a whole home humidifier -- Aprilaire.

I've been googling & researching -- the National Wood Flooring Association say the minimum job site requirements include having HVAC and/or controlling the temp / humidity for normal living conditions. Plus, the hardwood floor should go in after all the wet trades are finished. These are mentioned in other flooring installtion instructions too -- you can't acclimate the wood to normal living conditions with no HVAC.

Evidently this is a growing problem in the industry -- here's an article with details -- many flooring subs are declining to do the job if no HVAC:

http://www.floordaily.net/floorfocus/challenges_involved_with_installing_hardwood_wood.aspx

P.S. I'm on the Missouri side - - not Kansas. :)

"The guy who did the floor tried to tell me it's all normal. NOT if they would've controlled the temp / humidity like they're supposed to do!"

It is NOT the floor guys responsiblilty to make sure your house is climate controlled throughout your project. That is up to the builder and You, if you are living there. Its one of those things at this point you wont be able to pinpoint blame on anyone specific.

It is a new home construction -- we were not living in it.

From the National Wood Flooring Association installation guidelines:

"Installation constitutes acceptance of flooring material, subfloor/substrate, the jobsite itself including the
ambient temperature and relative humidity at the time of installation, and all impacting variables that may
affect a wood floor. For warranty and/or hold harmless agreements, check with legal counsel." Here's the full PDF: https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/member.nwfa.org/resource/resmgr/installguides/section1.pdf

They could not properly acclimate the wood to the normal living conditions because there was NO HVAC at the time of installation. They didn't bring in any dehumidifiers, etc. either.

I just want my floor fixed. The builder / flooring guy can figure it out between them. As I mentioned previously, an independent 3rd party Certified Inspector is coming.

I'm just relieved to hear that I'm not crazy -- the floor isn't supposed to look like this. I've been in other new homes (new homes tour) that are similar in age to our new home and the floors do not look like this one.

don't get me wrong I agree you have issues, and im not saying your floor is perfect. But the crowning you see, in my opinion looks like issues that occurred post sanding. and your inspector will only be able to give his opinion based on current conditions. As far as you know the wood and subfloor were within acceptable ranges. acclimating is only the attempt to allow the subfloor and wood product to be close as possible to the same moisture content. Can you prove that the wet trades weren't done, when installation took place? You're inspector cant. unless you have proof, or the builder fesses up, its going to be hard to make that claim. Im on yourside, believe me. you just spent a lot of money on your home, and you want acceptable finishes. but im trying to make sure you fully understand how this Could pan out.

If your floor has sanding/finishing flaws, then the inspector should be able to make the case for a refinish. and now with enough time has pass, they can take the right steps to get the moisture under control. but I don't think you will win on the case that they installed the floor too early or under bad conditions.

Yes we have pictures of the hardwood floor and you can see the walls were not painted, the tile was not in the kitchen, the fireplace was not done, etc. We know the painter stained the kitchen cabinets AFTER the floor was installed. We know there was no HVAC -- the painter was complaining a lot about how hot and humid it was -- the stain took longer to dry and he kept worrying about his sweat dripping on the stain.

What more proof do we need? pictures and a 'witness'

Here's pics -- wet trades not done -- no plumbing, no tile back splash, no painting, no staining, no fireplace. Case closed? :)

P.S. I've learned that acclimating is NOT just getting the wood and subfloor to be close to the same (within the 2-4% range). But they also need to be close the to the RM for NORMAL living conditions. That's why the industry guidelines say the HVAC should be working for about 5-7 days PRIOR to installation or you need alternative means to control the temp / humidity on the job site. They didn't do this.

Here's an article about an inspection where this happened:

http://www.hardwoodfloorsmag.com/troubleshooting/overzealous-acclimation-leads-to-gaps-in-white-oak-wood-floor.html

Most of the time they can probably get away with it but this was in the hot / humid summer when it was installed. However, the wood (and sub floor) appears to have been swollen when it was installed. When it dried out, we have problems. :(

We'll see what the inspector comes up with. I've been doing lots of research. But, I'm still not sure -- that's why I wanted to know if how it looks is acceptable.

I'm assuming that this is over a crawlspace or basement. What is your moisture control engineering for that crawlspace or basement? What does the hygrometer say the % is for the space? What about the subfloor % reading? The floor reading? Air reading? Then? Now?

If you're wanting a "glass smooth" floor (especially with a glossy finish like you chose) , you are doomed to disappointment. Solid wood moves over the seasons. You will always get break lines at the joins. Always. It doesn't take much humidity variation to have that happen either. Just the normal 30-40% in a controlled environment is enough for the wood to move. It just minimizes that movement. Movement has to be planned for in an installation. It doesn't sound as though that went on in your job. Now you need to find out if subsequent site conditions has exacerbated the issue. Thus needing to know how you are currently controlling moisture in the home and basement/crawl. I'm sure the inspector will cover that, so be sure to let us know what he finds.

There is a finished, walkout basement underneath.

We have AprilAire whole house humidifier (but HVAC wasn't installed or working when the floor was installed and for a few months afterwards. Environment was NOT controlled and wet trades not done.

Inspector coming May 11 and I'll let you know.

Michelle, This happened to me! The floor was covered with protective paper, AC was hit by lightening, floor sucked up moisture. (All done in humid august) They tried to fix it, it looked good until winter and started crowning and separating. Ended up having to remove and redo entire floor! The builders insurance policy your builder should have required you to purchase should cover this. It was a royal pain, had to move out of the house. Good luck!

Oh no -- I'm sorry to hear that but I'm glad you got it fixed. Did you have separations every where or a few? How big were they? Did you have an inspection? Do you have any pics you could share? Where do you live?

I'm so nervous and literally having nightmares about it. In my gut I know there are sine problems with the floor (probably quite a few) but I'm afraid they'll say it's 'normal'. The floor in our old house was 16 years old and didn't look anything like this floor.

The separations varied. I have wood on 2 floors. Live in Illinois. Yes I had an inspection. I went to a different floor company and their inspector worked with the insurance company. Some separations got as big as 1/4 inch. Not sure how to put photos on here…I will get my son to help me tomorrow. I'm a bit computer illiterate! LOL

LOL -- my kids help me with things like that too! :) When you are replying to a post -- at the bottom of the window where you're typing, there is a photo button. If you click on it you can select the pic you want to upload / attach.

I have floors on 2 floors too and I noticed the upstairs floor isn't as bad as the floor on the main level. I assume it's because hot air rises and we didn't have the heat on the upper floor as much (it has it's own thermostat).

I hope your floors are nice and you're enjoying them now! Hopefully in another month or so I will be able to finish moving stuff in and enjoying our new home.

Got it! Here you go. My floors are great now! Definitely check your builders insurance policy. If your floors have to be pulled out, it is not just floors…all base and cabinet trim had to come off. We had to move all the furniture out as well, and empty closets. It was like moving twice!

Thanks for the pics. Only 1 or 2 of my gaps are as big as the ones in your 3rd pic. I have a lot of boards with cracks or checks on the top of them too. Plus, there are some boards higher than others.

We could tell there were some problems so we quit unpacking and moving stuff in. We have lots of boxes in the garage, etc. It's like we put everything on hold. I just want to settle into the new home -- buy new rugs, furniture, etc. Sigh..... Hopefully it will all be fixed before too long.

Thank you so much for sharing! :)

I think Sophie's comments is where things should be looked at much closer. There must be an imbalance of moisture from the basement to second floor. In other words, there are higher Rh levels above the basement causing the crowning. It's usually the other way around where most people complain about cupping that's caused from higher moisture levels from below. (wet basements and crawl spaces)

The second level in my view is not as affected as greatly as the first. The two levels are closer in moisture levels, but there's still an imbalance. Of course all this takes time for floors to behave this way, and we're now going into a different season, where the AC will be running. My guess if the RH levels were monitored the last six months or so you’d probably be seeing something like this. I'm using larger numbers just to get a point across.

Basement: 15% Rh

First Floor: 40% Rh

Second Floor: 70% Rh

For hardwood floors to function like they’re supposed to or less susceptible to funky appearances, all house levels have to be in some kind of consistent zone of moisture.

In Sharon’s case it could have been a matter of plywood sheets separating (a drying condition) and moving in different directions. I’m not the smartest rock in the creek, but after attending an educational session this past week that was put on by the American Plywood Association that looked at issues with solid hardwood floor failures over wood sub floors, I feel smarter.

Why doesn't it happen in older homes? Because they’re not insulated to the teeth like the way today’s homes are being built. Moisture is more balanced.

We just had oak put into our home Two years ago. We are in CA and it is dry as a bone so no climatic issues with the floor. Ours were the 2 1/4" boards. From the photos your floor is mostly "flat sawn", giving the cathedral patterns to the wood. Should replacement be necessary, I would suggest that you go to the 2 1/4" boards as they are more stable and specify "quarter and rift" sawn boards. They are more stable in all conditions. Prettier too, in my estimation.

Thanks for everyone's comments. I wanted to post an update. We had a NWFA Certified Inspector out on Monday.

His physical description:

Debris in the finish, compression splits, crowning, & sander or drum marks were noticed throughout the entire installation area.

Conclusion:

Debris caused by exposing the finish to excessive air movement before it had time to properly dry.

Compression cracks/splits and crowning were caused by the hardwood absorbing excessive moisture after installation.

FYI: according to the installer -- the moisture content at time of installation was:

Flooring: 7 - 7.5%
Subfloor 9 - 9.5%

However, as I indicated there was no HVAC at the time of installation. On the day of installation, outside temp reached 81 with humidity up to 100%. Plus, the wet trades were not completed. I hope other installers & builders will learn -- control the temp & humidity of the job site and the floor should be done LAST!

I trust his recommendation that now that the temps / RH will be controlled, they can sand, fill (which they didn't do initially) and refinish (and replace one board).

I KNEW my hardwood floor didn't look right! I knew there were new cracks / splits showing up. Now, I just want to get it fixed so we can enjoy our new home!

Please update us when the repairs/redo is finished. I hope it all works out perfectly for you.

What Ken said about wood flooring being more stable in older homes is absolutely correct. I had a floor move once and it was because the owner added insulation and finished the basement. I have also seen perfectly fine wood floors go a little nuts when an addition or other major alteration was done.