Thanks so much for the replies. The reason for the dwarf is space. I saw Teddy Bear recently and really liked the dark color of the leaves. It was standing next to Little Gem, and there wasn't much difference, though TB might have been a bit darker. I initially liked Alta because of its upright form, which would work well in my space, but from what I understand, TB and LG might also be upright? I wish I could order some of the more interesting varieties, but I want as large a size as I can afford right now, and I'm afraid shipping would be prohibitive on that. I just talked to someone today who said LG is hardy in my area. So if TB and LG are also upright like Alta, then I have 3 choices which work in terms of size and form. I just don't know how to decide among them. Is one faster growing than the others, maybe? Thanks again.

somehow i missed this thread in the fall. if y'all haven't gone to niche count me in, too! it's been on my list for yrs and i still haven't made it out. nor to cam forest. i'm right there with the people who voted for natives. i love them!! got involved with the nc wildflower society who organises plant save before the dozers come in, and have saved many plants this yr(and my pocketbook a ton of cash!). not to mention learned a lot and met some great folks. i'd highly recommend it if you're into natives. have to agree on the decid azaleas, amsonias, black & blue salvia, & baptisias. (mud, have you had the purple ones reseed? are you coming to the spring swap??) and who can argue with torenia & impatiens that spread themselves around so freely? caladiums and coleus are great. workhorses without complaint, all. malvaviscus drummondi is one noone's mentioned that goes & goes & goes for me. my garden wouldn't be mine without scads of aquilegias, too. love the foliage and flowers both. coral honeysuckle is to die for when full out. oh, i love turtleheads(chelone), too- and have some(not too much) if anyone wants to try it come spring swap. i'll bring some verb bon, too. orange cosmos is very fun come fall and reseeds happily. i know pansies are like he most common thing, but i cant imagine getting through a winter now without their shiny happy faces. the few seedlings that sprout always seem to be the common purple & yellow violas, with their cheery demeanor. tam

Looking at your photo I'd guestimate your front yard area to be about 30' x 50'. Is this picture shot in the morning. If so then afternoon shade will come from this tree, right? I'm a big fan of Maples for fast growing. Most big shade trees will grow 50'-100' high by 40'- 60' wide. If you look at your photo you see your neighbor maybe 3 houses down with a full grown tree. That's what 1 tree will look like in 20-30 years. Across the street on the curve is what 2 or more trees will look like. My preference would be like your neighbor on your side of the road, That spacing gives you a lot more edges that are not shaded entirely by the tree. My sister lives in a neighborhood that has tons of full grown trees and her house always seems dark on the inside to me. I moved into a home that only had bushes 4 years ago I planted an Acer freemanii October Glory because of it quick early growth. I planted it from a 5 gallon pot. It was only 6' tall and now it's about 15'. I expect to get shade from it in another 10 years. Most of my work was done in California near Sacramento. Because of space expenses they grow their trees in pots. Here we have space and tree farms are the norm. I have a friend who has a tree farm that I drive by often on my way to St. Louis. He removed a line of evergreen trees that were doing poorly and replaced them with Maples. They looked to be 1 1/2" -2" size. Because of his having to water them from transplanting about 6 out of 15 died. My point is that field grown trees have their roots well away from the trunk so there's plenty of transport shock. Bigger may not be better in this case. Quercus coccinea or Scarlet Oak has beautiful fall color where the evening temps are low in fall. They are NOT as fast growing as the Maples. 60'-80' high by 40'-60' wide. What ever you do plant do yourself and the tree a favor and keep a 6' planting space. This keeps the lawn mower and string trimmer well apart. I also would plant it slightly elevated say 6" to allow for settling after transplanting. This also allows good water drainage. Remember the people who plant it do what YOU tell them if you tell they what you want.

We’re told that the lawns don’t hold back run-off partly because of their unvarying surfaces. They’re considered a direct slip ‘n slide to the lake. We’re encouraged to leave dips, We’re encouraged to plant, or leave undisturbed, native barrier plants—-partly because of their height, I’ve presumed, and also their deeper roots. People are encouraged to plant wild blueberries shoreside. (Of course, you can’t buy native blueberries in gardening centers here, which I’m guessing is the explanation for the ten grave-sized areas where my blueberry sod was stolen out of my field a few years ago at the height of Lake Smart awareness programs.) Our lawns and camp roads came 60 to 70 years after our dwellings. Neither were “constructed”. Gravel was dumped on the ”roads”. Loam and grass seed were dumped on the pine needles in front of our camps—-if that. As trivial as it sounds, I gather phosphorus pollution from road dusts is a not insignificant contributor to algae blooms. My lake, and most of the local lakes, still have good water quality—-I wouldn’t hesitate to drink ours in the spring and fall—-but our lake bottom has gone from sparkling gravel to a soft muck that supports both algae and fresh water clams that used to only live in the most shallow areas of the lake. Lots of people rake and remove the muck in front of their own camps and having swimming children keeps the bottom clear. kitasei, I think you actually can make a significant difference to your own part of shoreline, so kudos to you to be aware of the problems using fertilizers lakeside. I do lots of things that aren’t good for my lake, but I try to do some good. I moved my compost bins to an inconvenient 100’ from my garden, for instance.