I love all my clematis, but I seldom pair them with a rose. In this picture I see Prince Charles and Princess Diana with Crown Princess Margarita sneaking in the picture! Lesley

Speaking as someone who has the opposite problem, I'm jealous of your clematis. I have had very little luck with them. I do have some that are coming back year after year, but they are not nearly as robust as yours.

I'm jealous also. We can't grow the large flowered ones down here, although Brushwood Nursery sent me a list of the ones I could grow. I hope to try again this year.

Win or lose your garden is gorgeous, Cynthia! I wish mine looked so full and lush with growth. I had Paradise paired with Ernest Markham for a long time but Paradise died last winter. I never really had much of problem with them. Paradise got about 5 to 6 feet tall and Ernest climbed the trellis behind him and mostly bloomed at the top. Regrettably never at the same time, lol!

Thanks for the warning. I was going to plant some clematis this spring.

Smiles,
Lyn

What a riot of color. Love Princess Diana with the white clematis.

Good to hear this alkaline Calif. clay/adobe is a plus for roses. I was always so envious of people with loamy soil who didn't have to start with a pick axe.

I like this post. The pictures are wonderful. I will be careful when I plant clematis. What a fun battle to watch and control.

Cynthia, your fabulous photos and hilarious narrative have given me a bad case of clematis-itis. After drooling over the pics and marveling that one person could have so many clems, I immediately went to the Brushwood website to look at their clematis plants; then on to the Khlem nursery site. I now have a list of clematis I want, and I'm tearing my hair trying to come up with where I would put them. You clematis enabler, you. I just have one lonely clematis which I love, and it's Rosemoor. I think it rivals the roses in its gaudy gorgeousness.
Thanks for showing us your beautiful photos. Diane

I like this post. The pictures are wonderful. I will be careful when I plant clematis. What a fun battle to watch and control.

Cynthia, your clematis are absolutely beautiful. No surprise though - your gardens are beautiful! I could look at photos of them all day!

Michaela

The few pics I have don't really show much, since my roses are coming upon their third year and my clematis on their second. I'm also in a warmer zone, so I don't get as much Winter dieback as you do. The way I planted mine was different -- I nailed deer netting across the length of my side fence, and planted Type-2 clematis to climb that. I also have a row of roses there, but put the clematis to climb the netting between the roses rather than on the roses themselves. This Spring, I'll be putting up a few horizontal rows of wire for training the roses, and this will be an inch or two away from the netting.

I do have two roses with Type-2 clematis planted to climb them, but the roses are growing rather large. One is 'Orfeo', growing into a scalped Callery pear. It already has several canes that each must be at least ten feet long and snaking through the tree, so I can't imagine it being overwhelmed by the clematis. On one side is clematis 'H. F. Young', and on the other side is 'Henryi', both using 'Orfeo' as their trellis into the tree.

The second rose is a vigorous once-blooming Hybrid China sold as 'Nouveau Monde' from Vintage Gardens, trained against a raised deck railing. The only pics of it right now on HelpMeFind are from my garden. This one has clematis 'Countess of Lovelace' planted as its base, using the rose as its trellis.

Then there's a third rose with a clematis, but this time it's a Type-3 clematis. I have the rose 'Baltimore Belle' planted to climb into a dying large Japanese maple. Near its base I planted the clematis 'Sweet Summer Love'. This year, I didn't see any blooms on the clematis, but it was decimated by squirrels down to one stem, so I'm happy it simply survived. Oddly, the squirrels didn't eat the clematis, but merely broke the stems which I had tacked onto the tree -- Springtime shenanigans.

So, going through pics I took this Spring, this is what I've got. Again, realize that everything is still young.

This pic shows a young rose 'Yellow Sweetheart, Climbing' on the left, and clematis 'Fujimusume' on the right. You can see the netting against the fence, which I was initially planning to use for fastening the roses but have since decided isn't strong enough -- so I'll be doing the wire for the roses.

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This shot shows the general spacing along the fence. From the right edge going to the pine tree, it's:

clematis 'Fujimusume'
rose 'Yellow Sweetheart, Climbing'
clematis 'Niobe'
clematis 'Edo Murasaki'
rose 'Ferdinand Pichard'
clematis 'Diamantina'
(the plants above are not in the pic, but that's the order against the fence)
clematis 'Omoshiro'
rose 'Purple Skyliner'
clematis 'Ruutel'
clematis 'Blue Light'
rose 'Bubble Bath'
clematis 'Red Star'
clematis 'Lasurstern'
rose 'Bleu Magenta'
clematis 'Belle of Woking'
rose "Darlow's Enigma", which is free-standing behind the pine and shooting up into it without support.

....I think. I may be getting the order wrong for the blue/purple clematis against the fence, but everything else is accurate.

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This pic from later in the season shows rose 'Purple Skyliner' to the right of clematis 'Ruutel' (which has two blooms -- one to the left of the rose, the other behind it).

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A closer shot of a bloom on clematis 'Ruutel'.

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The combo looked nicer when both were blooming at the same time.

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This is rose 'Bubble Bath' with a clematis on either side -- 'Red Star' to its left, and 'Blue Light' on its right. But neither clematis is blooming.

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Rose 'Yellow Sweetheart, Climbing' next to clematis 'Niobe'.

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Here's rose 'Noveau Monde' just as it was starting to bloom.

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And nestled within were a few blooms on clematis 'Countess of Lovelace' -- blooms on new wood are single.

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This pic shows the first blooms on rose 'Orfeo', which has clematis 'Henryi' at its base on its left, and clematis 'H. F. Young' on its right. Neither clematis were blooming here, but I did see a couple blooms on each this year. You can also catch some blooms on clematis 'Countess of Lovelace' nestled among rose 'Nouveau Monde' in the back right.

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And....that's all I've got for now. Like I said, they're all still babies, but I think this shows how I'm growing them. Later in the season, roses and clematis put on quite a bit of growth, so I'm hoping for a better show in 2015.

:-)

~Christopher

What lovely gardens...Christopher, although young, you have a great showing. I believe that clematis creates patience, just like roses. One of my blessings with gardening is the optimistic future each new spring! You have lots to look forward to.! Here in KY., I have the best luck with #3 clematis. cutting them back in spring, and then again after the first bloom. I use Rose Tone on them as well as my roses. They seem to love it , and lots of water! I hope others will share their rose/clematis pics. Lesley

Fantastic clematis shots, Lesley and you made the Princess Di and Prince Charles combination work with gorgeous results! I tried that at least 3 times (hence all the Princess Di plants in my yard), but Charles just wimped out on me (dunno what that says, since he's reputedly quite a gardener in real life). Is the last clematis Nelly Moser? That's another one that has hung on for a year or two then faded with consumptive gasps like in a Victorian novel. Even though most clems like our climate, some are stubbornly resistant.

Christopher, you've clearly been bitten by the clematis bug and the results are already impressive and will be mind-blowing when they all mature. In your warmer zone I suspect that the roses will be able to hold their own, particularly under your meticulous care, and you have some lovely mannerly clematis varieties. Niobe is another one I've tried several times as I dearly love that deep burgundy color, but she must dislike our cold winters as she weeps sad tears and melts away just like her namesake for me. Your combination of her with the Yellow Sweetheart is to die for. We look forward to more pictures of your garden as it matures.

Sympathies buford and floridarose. I wonder if the clematis prefer colder winters than you have in your climates. At least I know the sweet autumn needs the cold, but I wonder if the smaller flowered ones like viticella or (dare I say it) Princess Diana might be worth a try. She certainly seems to be a tough resilient clem in many locations.

And Lynn, I can't say that clems would be a thug in your high and dry climate. They might want more regular water than the desert provides and not get out of hand with the more limited water supply they'd get out your way. Never let this post talk you out of clematis!!

Speaking of which - Diane, I am unapologetic about doing some enabling of clematis for you (glad you liked the pictures and storyline). We have similar climates and I think they'd like your soil too. Certainly your roses love it, and Brushwood is a great place to be plotting and drooling before spring comes. Just plan ahead and give the clematis something inanimate to climb on.

Seil - thanks for the compliments. You're smart to plant your Ernest Markham with a trellis so he doesn't have to fight with Paradise. It's my turn to be jealous of you, since I'm on my third try with Paradise and it has (just barely) condescended to survive the winter but refuses to clear 3 feet even grafted.

MIchaela, Sam4949 and Iris_gal - thanks for the kind words. The lushness of the clematis kind of made up for the lackluster performance of the roses after last year's brutal winter. Even though I'm glad for our loamy soils iris_gal (if bulbs get dug up by the squirrels I can scratch around with my hands to replant them), we get our roses toasted all the time by the bitter cold. It's always something, isn't it?

It's fun seeing all of your gardens now when everything is cold and dead in the northern zones! Keep up the pictures.

Cynthia

I'm embarrassed to even post this picture. Please forgive the terrible picture I took with my phone. It's all I have at the moment though. A lot has changed since this picture, but I have Prince Charles clematis next to some roses (not pictured in this shot). He should be mature this coming year, but I'll bet he would play nice. Still waiting to see if I might get a 2nd bloom out of him.

KY blue..that is beautiful.I have great luck with getting a second bloom by cutting #3`s like Prince Charles by 1/2 and giving a good feed. The second bloom is not as large, but still lovely. I do this with all my #3`s. Lesley

I cut it back in the spring and routinely throw some bone meal out. I'll feed a little miracle grow a couple times a year as well. I'll try cutting it back after bloom half way and see if I have better luck. I got a single rebloom last year, so it's definitely worth a shot. Thanks Lesley!

I agree blueKYstream - that is a lovely Prince Charles, and I'm jealous since he just won't stay alive for me. Not to mention a wonderful white arch. It's a great way to set off your whole yard and it looks fantastic.

Lesley - which is this latest clematis? The dark on light pink bands on the petals are just stunning, as is your breathtaking closeup shot.

Cynthia

Here is Jackmanii fighting it out with New Dawn last spring--appropriate since I think the are both thugs!

...and on another trellis Duchess of Edinburg who is also going toe to toe with a New Dawn that hasn't bloomed yet.

Cynthia, the close up clematis is Bourbon. Very appropriate for my Kentucky garden! It really lights up the garden in the spring! Lesley

..these are gorgeous photos on here...

..although I didn't have that last one down as 'Bourbon'...that was a surprise, as it comes up more reddish or very deep pink over here with a lighter bar..... I thought it looked more like 'Anna Louise' or perhaps 'Mrs N Thompson'....

..maybe they're all rather similar... certainly all rather lovely..

..great combo's with New Dawn too..like that very much...

This post was edited by Marlorena on Wed, Jan 28, 15 at 14:02

Great shot of New Dawn and Jackmanii, subk3 - I think you finally have a clear rose winner, though you're right that these are both thugs in their own right. Since New Dawn is stretching out beyond the support toward eating those nearby windows, I think she has eyes on conquering yet more real estate. And thanks for the great photo of Duke of Edinburgh - that rings a bell and I think that might be the double white on one of my swing photos (now I don't have to brave the cold).

i appreciate the name of Bourbon to shoot for, Lesley, and hopefully that's a cold-hardy enough clematis to appreciate my yard. I'll keep an eye out for that one.

Cynthia

I agree with Cynthia that New Dawn will trounce Jackmanii. Once ND is through blooming, it will start throwing out monster canes--then watch out house. At one time I was fool enough to own five New Dawn plants all at the same time. They are all gone now. I had to learn the hard way. Diane

All I can say is "WOW". Your roses and clematis combos are AMAZING, Cynthia. I have seen some of your other garden photos and Lesley's and they are just breathtaking! I just aspire to have mine to look half as good as yours and Lesley's someday and I will be very happy.

Thank you,Kousa! Most of my climbs do well...a few are puny! I use Rose Tone on them in the spring and use Fish Emulsion from time to time. I cut all my #3`s down by 1/2 after first bloom, hit them again with Rose Tone and get another bloom later in summer.I also foliar feed with Monty`s every few weeks. I`m sure your clematis will be beautiful. Lesley

Thanks for the complements too - remember that these photos are of the garden at its best picking the best shots of those. I also keep plenty of photos of the garden when very little is blooming - like August for me. Sometimes I look at my own photos and wish my garden looked that good too.

Lesley, that last photo is the icing on the cake. Just a gorgeous overflowing of lovely clematis and lilies and roses and other perennials with the garden structures and fences as the ideal setting for this lushness. Garden exuberance at its best!

Cynthia

Nippstress - thank you so much for starting this thread. It never occurred to me that clematis act differently in CA than they do other, colder and more humid places, but of course roses act differently in different climates, so why would not clematis?

The pictures of the clematis in warm and humid summer climates are spectacular! Mine here never get that lush - they stay sort of scraggly, or they would look scraggly if they were not climbing up roses. All of my clematis are climbing up roses, with no problems at all. Of course, if they really liked our climate as yours do they would probably overwhelm the roses. I never thought that was possible.

Anyway, I think you put your finger on it - perhaps the combination only works where the climate is borderline for clematis, which makes them willing to use the roses as support without smothering them. Good call!

My clematis sort of tip-toe through the roses - I usually do not notice the clematis foliage at all, just the blooms politely decorating the rose bush. I will post a couple of pics - this one is on Graham Thomas.

Jackie

This one is on climbing Ice Berg with Buff Beauty chiming in.

Jackie

This large white one is climbing up Mme Caroline Testout - the clematis starts blooming just before the rose does.

Jackie

Lovely garden Jackie.Full, lush,tall roses with such pretty clematis mixed in. Is everything just bigger in California?My roses have never grown that tall! Lesley

Gorgeous pics of gorgeous gardens, everyone.

Gorgeous pics of gorgeous gardens, everyone.

Lesley - short answer: yes. No matter what I do roses seem to all get way bigger than they are supposed to here. Must just love the climate. Clematis, not so much, which is why I think they can co-exist.

Jackie

Harry, that's beautiful.

Wow, Jackie - that's exactly the sort of pairing of clematis I was picturing in my gardens, particularly the Graham Thomas and purple clematis. That combination is to die for, and the rose and clematis are happily (and gorgeously) supporting each other. I can only dream of Graham Thomas getting that big and lush in my zone, even though Austins typically like my climate. Mine has never cleared 3 feet tall in 4 years, and even wimpy clematis like Nelly Moser would mow him down in a minute. It's good to hear the contrast of clematis being borderline in places like CA (not that I would wish it on you, but it's good to know). I thought tulips and once-blooming OGRs were the only flowers that didn't like California. Who woulda thunk it? Although frankly, your clematis look very happy just not thuggish.

Harry, that is a terrific shot of the evolution of clematis-rose detente, and jaw-dropping wonderful clematis to boot. I hope Betty Corning was given new life in another spot, since she is breathtaking in her lush profusion. Ditto for Westerland, since I can only dream of my Westerland looking that terrific in the spot I have it. I'm glad to see you label Venosa Violacea, since I'm pretty sure that's the clematis I have creeping up on my hammock, but it barely reaches 6-8 feet so far and doesn't have that amazing explosion of color yet. Clearly it needs more sun and territory to conquer - I love the white star effect in the center.

Beautiful pictures and fun observations everyone!

Cynthia

I am really enjoying all the views on this thread,. Just gorgeous! THank you for sharing.

Christopher, I can't wait to see pics of your developing garden next year. It is really smart to put on the deer nettings for the clematis. I can just envision a wall of color when the clematis are in bloom. What an effect that will be! I hope you don't mind that I use your idea in part of my garden. Karen

Venosa Violacea is my favorite clematis. It is vigorous and hardy.

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