northlandyogi,

It was during the late winter that I decided to make them. Sort of a distraction from reading about all the other areas of the country that were having their spring flushes when mine were still dormant.

Yogi, did you call DA and ask? MANY of their BR roses are BR OR as mentioned above. Just because it just says BR on the website doesn't mean it's grafted. For example, Bathsheba and Malvern Hills are both BR OR. When you receive them they are a huge mass of roots.

Olivia Rose Austin is grafted. Grafted do well here, I plant them in April. I grow both grafted and own root roses, the Austins are grafted, most of the antiques are own root. The Jackson & Perkins autumn roses arrive in good condition. I prefer grafted from them, but have purchased own root as well.

@northlandyogi_mi5a
I also have a grafted Olivia. All my roses are grafted. Some people say to mulch to over winter but I was too lazy and missed my timing last winter and 5 of them (Queen of Sweden, 2 Poet’s Wife, 2 Desdemona) were in the ground for their first years and Olivia and Jude were in their 2nd but they came out of pots and first year into the ground that year. All did spectacular but out of all of them Olivia was the most vigorous grower and first bloomer. If you do protect I’m sure it is better as you won’t have as much die back but there is definitely no need with Olivia. I’m guessing own root Olivia will be one of the best own roots to grow. simply because she put performa everything else.

@strawchicago z5 I saw one of your posts 3 years ago you listed the following as your favorate DAs. What's your updated fav DA list?

" Of the David Austins I have had, here are my favorites: "
HERITAGE
TRADESCANT
GOLDEN CELEBRATION
ABRAHAM DARBY
SOPHY'S ROSE
THE DARK LADY

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/3179492/chicago-botanical-gardens-waterfalls-roses-perennials#n=94

@Rose Sniffer All the roses you mentioned are on the top of my list ! Do you have pictures of the rest of your roses? -- poets' wife, jude, Queen of sweden, and desdomona? Btw, I went to graduate school in upper state NY and still miss it! I was in Buffalo. I left there complaining too cloudy and cold and went somewhere warmer but eventually somehow settled down in an even colder climate! I miss upper state NY and its April magnolia blossoms.

Yogi: I didn't write the above, it was MiniPonyFarmer Gilmer, TX(Zone 8b) Nov 12, 2009 wrote that in http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1054489/

From StrawChicago: Below is a list of 30 OWN-ROOT Austin roses, plus 1 grafted on Dr.Huey for the past 10 years in my zone 5a shady garden with heavy alkaline clay & 38 to 40" of acidic rain in short summer & 7 months of DRY winter. Dry periods in summer alternate with heavy rain, plus spring flood. Windchill factor of -30 F below zero. pH of rain here is acidic like the East coast at pH 4.5.

1) Lilian Austin .. always healthy bought in 2011. Very nice scent, killed it due to nasty thorns that poked me when I deadheaded the blooms. It's small as own-root in my garden, but HUGE at rose-park as grafted-on-Dr.Huey. VERY HEALTHY.

2) Charles Darwin ... healthy but stingy in hot & dry & bought in 2012. Gave away since the blooms look like used-toilet paper. But it's the best performer at Chicago Botanical garden's loamy soil. Low-thorn & pale leaves so it won't bloom unless tons of acidic rain.

3) Scepter'd Isle .. healthy & dark-green leaves & gets huge as own-root & bought in 2012. Gave away since blooms can't be cut for the vase & not crazy about its myrrh scent.

4) St. Cecilia .. healthy & compact bush. LOVE ITS fantastic myrrh scent. VERY HEALTHY with pale leaves.

6) Wise Portia .. lots of blooms in partial shade, healthy in heavy rain, strong scent in cool weather only. Dark-green leaves and like alkaline-topping. LOVE THIS since 2011.

7) Radio Times .. big thorny bush but fantastic damask scent. healthy the first 6 years but decline in health after that. Easy-bloomer in partial shade after 10 years. Prefer alkaline soil and DOES NOT LIKE TOO MUCH ACIDIC RAIN, needs fast drainage.

8) Golden Celebration ... healthy the first 5 years but decline as 10th-year own root. Amazing scent that I want to buy a 2nd one. Prefer alkaline soil & fast drainage like Radio Times.

9) Christopher Marlowe ... need heavy dose of sulfate of potash to stay small and blooms more. Messy octopus canes. Decline in health as 10th-year-own root, but blooms well.

10) Evelyn. ALWAYS HEALTHY since 2012, tons of blooms .. best for my dense clay.

11) William Morris, best in sandy soil, but NOT in dense clay, died in its 1st winter.

12) Mary Magdalene: pale leaves & ALWAYS HEALTHY since 2011, super-thorny with frankincense wafting scent. Small bush zero octopus canes.

13) The Dark Lady. Big blooms on compact bush. Bush needs constant fertilizer to stay bushy, otherwise it's a few sticks. It has Rugosa heritage so it needs fast-draining & loamy soil Always healthy. Wafting old rose scent.

14) Princess Anne. Huge thorny bush, long pause in between, and its many blooms shatter and fade. Not much scent. Pale leaves can take lots of acidic rain.

15) Pat Austin. LOVE IT even after 10 years. Constant bloomer. Dark-green but glossy leaves like it wet & alkaline.

16) Lady of Shalott. Huge thorny bush, stingy in partial shade. Small blooms. Always healthy for the past 5 years with pale leaves.

17) Crown Princess mag. LOVE it even after 9 years. HUGE BUSH but blooms are gorgeous with best fruity scent. Dark-green leaves prefer alkaline pH.

18) Jude the Obscure. I tried this 4 times as own-roots .. bought it TWICE as own-root, and a friend gave 2 rootings. Most wimpy ever as own-root, kept dying in 2nd winter. Jude died on Andrea in zone 7, England. Pale leaves & best with acidic rain.

19) Eglantyne. Amazing scent, tried this TWICE as own-root. Band size didn't survive winter, but gallon-size did, then died after 2 winters. Ann in CA also reported its wimpiness as own-root, also others in the East coast.

20) Munstead Wood. LOVE it as own-root. Constant bloomer & always healthy. Tiny thistles but compact bush. Pale leaves like acidic rain.

21) Sharifa Asma: LOVE its fantastic scent. This is best in fluffy & loamy & wet soil. Most tiny among my Austin roses, perhaps best as grafted? Pale leaves like acidic rain.

22) Carding Mill: LOVE this bush, but it's most black-spot prone. It blooms so much that potassium is depleted. This needs lots of fertilizer to stay healthy.

23) Queen Nefertiti: Very thorny. it's a child of Tamora and Lilian Austin so it needs excellent drainage. Mine was in heavy clay so it dropped all its leaves with recent heavy rain. Need to dig it up and fix my clay with sand. My experience with thorny roses: need fast drainage.

24) Queen of Sweden: Gave it away, tiny blooms that shatter with zero scent. Tall bush that shot up to 5 feet. It's VERY HEALTHY but need tons of acidic rain to produce blooms (like Kordes roses).

25) William Shakespeare 2000, this is my MOST FAVORITE AUSTIN, most compact & always blooming and MOST HEALTHY, never see any diseases for the past 10 years. Blooms last long on the bush and up to 5 days in the vase. Pale leaves need acidic rain.

26) Darcey Bussell: Zero scent & but bloomed lots in partial shade & VERY HEALTHY. Got winter-killed since I put too much acidic pine bark to fix my compact clay & that spot was flooded with acidic rain in winter. Don't miss it. Dark leaves prefer alkaline.

27) James Galway: VERY HEALTHY but tall in partial shade. Bloom only with tons of acidic rain, amazing scent of carnation.

28) Tess of the d'Urbervilles: VERY HEALTHY, nice-red color, need more sun to bloom than 4 hours. Blooms have nice-myrrh scent, it's a keeper & LOVE IT. Pale leaves can take lots of acidic rain.

29) A Shoprshire Lad: WORST AUSTIN EVER AS OWN-ROOT !! It has very dark-green leaves so it prefers alkaline pH. It's low thorn so it wants soaking wet 24/7 but NOT acidic rain. It did best in a fast-draining pot with fluffy potting soil, plus my pH 9-tap-water. It black spotted during acidic rain (spent 1 hour digging for drainage), but improved when I topped it with bio-char (pH 13). Jay-Jay in the Netherlands with DRY pH 8 soil (lots of rocks) stated that Tamora and A Shopshire Lad are his best performers (as grafted). Tamora dropped all its leaves at alkaline-clay rose-park with our spring flood, while their other 1,200 roses were healthy. Tamora can't take our heavy rain (more than 1" per day).

30) The Squire: Best red-color that lasts long on the bush, can't detect any scent. The bush is a few bare sticks in dry weather, same with The Dark Lady. Bush is bare and legging & lose leaves in hot & dry.

31) Young Lycidas. THIS IS THE ONLY AUSTIN that I have as grafted-on-Dr.Huey, since I could not get it as own-root. Leaves are crinkled like Sharifa Asma and also wimpy & tiny as a plant. It died in its 1st winter. The blooms are prettier than Princess Ann with amazing scent. Dr.Huey declines drastically in wet & freezing heavy clay in zone 5a. Nearby rose park (alkaline clay) replaces their Austin roses in 2nd or 3rd year (grafted-on-Dr.Huey).

StrawChicago in zone 5a with dense alkaline clay, 38" to 40" of heavy acidic rain in short summer, but dry & long winter, then spring flood.

@strawchicago z5 I chuckled when I read your eval of DAs, especially the first two. You replied my question in a different thread and I figured I'd copy it here for future reference. I hope that is okay with you.

Since you have sandy soil, BOTH own-root and grafted-on-Dr.Huey would be fantastic, but grafted-on-Dr.Huey needs to be buried at least 4 inch. below soil-level. For CLIMBERS or LARGE-AUSTIN-SHRUB I would lean toward own-roots. For roses that are listed as small shrub in Austin Catalog, I WOULD BUY AS GRAFTED. The new Austin catalog 2020 lists which ones are large bush vs. medium vs. small size. Few wimpy ones best as GRAFTED: Boscobel, Jude the Obscure, Princess Alexandra of Kent, Eglantyne. Re-post the info. from another thread why grafted-on-Dr.Huey is not best for heavy rain.

The problem with zone 5 winter: we have 7 months of zero rain in winter, then flood in spring (3" of rain per day), then dry summer months alternate with heavy rain, esp. in fall. Roses on a DEEP & LONG Dr.Huey-rootstock can't handle being soaked in acidic rain water, pH 4.5. Dr. Huey was bred in dry & alkaline CA. Now I understand why Jim in PA, zone 6 only grow own-root roses, and he researched carefully on roses that can handle heavy rain & flood.

About Tamora: it's best in alkaline & fast-draining soil. Nearby zone 5 rose park with alkaline clay had Tamora (grafted-on-Dr.Huey) ... it black spotted badly in heavy rain. Plus the myrrh scent is gone during heavy rain (more than 1" per day). Tamora and Queen Nefertiti (its child) are both thorny, and my experience with thorny roses: they like FAST-DRAINING SOIL, tend to black spot in slow-drainage clay and heavy rain.

In contrast, LOW-THORN roses can tolerate flooding and soaking-wet & poor drainage clay better .. such as almost thornless Twilight zone, that can take tons of rain without diseases & compact & plus a wafting scent 4 feet away. Glossy foliage like Pat Austin also can take poor-drainage and flooding .. Pat is compact in my zone 5, amazing scent of mango and nectarine. Pat is a water-hog. Munstead Wood is also compact AS OWN-ROOT with wafting scent.

Dr.Huey-rootstock (A LONG & DEEP STICK) needs fast drainage and doesn't like acidic rain in slow-drainage clay. Own-roots or multiflora-rootstock are more cluster-shallow root and can take flooding & heavy rain better. Also for compactness, own-root is best. My Jude the Obscure was 2' x 1' as own-root, versus rose park's Jude-grafted-on-Dr.Huey was over 7 feet tall & same with their Abraham Darby.

Below is Tamora at rose park with alkaline clay ... I won't post the pic. of its dropping all leaves due to blackspots in our heavy rain (more than 1" per day):

Twilight zone as 4th-year-own-root in my zone 5 garden, next to a rain spout & only 4 hrs. of sun, always healthy. Like Bolero, I can smell the old-rose scent many feet away:

Below is 10-year-own-root Pat Austin, amazing mango and nectarine scent, loves tons of rain, bloom lots in only 4 hrs. of sun:

Munstead Wood is very compact, with amazing scent that floats in the air (much stronger & better scent than Bolero). With winter-kill in zone 5, the bush is more slender & compact than below pic. as 6th-year-own-root.

Thanks for re-posting what I wrote above. So I have experience with 29 varieties of Austin roses (but only one, Young Lycidas was grafted on Dr.Huey, and the rest 28 are own-roots). I wonder if I should get the below for fragrance as own-roots: 1) Desdemona 2) Royal Jubilee 3) Roald Dahl 4) Lady Emma Hamilton. 5) England's rose. Thanks for any info on these 5 as to their scents & shade-tolerance.

I will try to smell my neighbor's RD. Theirs is in mainly sun, but some dappled shade in the pm.

I saw a webpage published by Minnesota Rose Society listing semi-hardy and hardy shrub roses including some Bucks roses and Austin. Good reference. It didn't mention Prairie Harvest or Quietness. https://minnesotarosesociety.org/shrub-roses/

Prairie Harvest has been cane-hardy in my zone 5 for the past 6 years. Kelly in MN, zone 4 grows Quietness for the past 5 years. If you have snow in the winter, that UP the zone by one. Snow is like an insulating blanket for roots. Roses are water-hogs and they don't like dry winter with no snow .. plenty of my own-roots died through dry winter.

Roses die in my zone 5 winter: either from a dry winter of no snow, or tons of rain in winter that rot roots in heavy rain. Heavy rain in winter, like one Jan killed a bunch of large trees here. Even trees' roots can't cope with tons of rain than turned into ice the next day to crack roots. But steady snow & steady cold temp. in MI is actually good for plants .. I grew up in MI and MI doesn't have the drastic temp. change like Chicagoland. A friend in MI, zone 5b grew a bunch of tender hybrid teas, like Peace for over a decade. Peace is NOT hardy here in Chicagoland, tried that, and it was the 1st to die as grafted. Rose Parks here grow Chicago Peace, which is actually hardier.

I completely forgot the Applejack was a buck Rose! I grow that one and really like it got a very nice little fragrance in a beautiful shape and form. It's a nice Bush on my hill.

OH my goodness this is the third time I will attempt to post on houzz... please work

@northlandyogi_mi5a There is something special about living in the north country! The mountains are beautiful and while we absolutely hate the winters... there is a magic about them :) We always get a white Christmas! I think I have been along the entire east coast's climates haha Virginia, Florida, and now Upstate NY! Most of these photos are from 2019 as during the growing season this year I decided to stay away from my community garden because people were still approaching me without masks. As you guys know NY had it pretty bad. I was not taking any chances as I also had a kitten at home! I left to quarantine with my family in Virginia and only this month did I return. Here are the pictures!

Queen of Sweden 1st year in the ground last year. The only one with blackspot in my garden and a less frequent bloomer. Very unique growth habit with upright stems and blooms! Scent is your usual soapy rose scent, but not very strong. 2019 Pictures.

Jude the Obscure, vigorous and biggest in my garden! Scent is the strongest, I'd say it is not your typical rose scent. It smells tart? No idea how to explain it! I love the initial bloom color of that gorgeous, transparent Apricot. I'd rather it stay that color than fade to the buff shown in the second picture. This is a very cupped rose. Pictures from 2019. 3rd year planted and 1st year in the ground at time of picture.

Most compact rose out of all 5 varieties I have. Stays small especially in our shorter growing seasons. You will easily be able to grow this one in a pot! First image was the first flush, second image was a stronger second flush. First year in the ground at time of picture (2019). Scent is classic rose, but you have to stick your nose in it like for QoS.

My second favorite... Poet's Wife! Top picture is from last week! Look at how gorgeous it is. It has a Canary yellow center that fades lighter towards the edges. Incredibly fragrant. I don't really get drawn towards yellow roses but this is worth growing for the scent. Very fruity! Also a compact rose but a vigorous grower. It is nearing the end of the season and it's throwing up long long canes. This one will shine and grow lots if you have a longer growing season. Up here, I believe it will stay compact. First photo is only of one bloom, no bush photos since it was so small and the blooms were just as big as this year's so they were drooping on the bush. This one surprised me with it's health and vigor, I absolutely recommend!

Olivia Rose Austin, the first place winner in my garden. She was the first to bloom and so the only flush I could see before my leave to quarantine with my family in VA. Look at how gorgeous! I cut off all those blooms to bring to my mom. She loved them. The scent is a fresh rose scent. ONLY downside is that her blooms are huge and tend to nod. She is never with blackspot and her graft is actually very high above the ground. In my laziness, I decided I didn't want to dig anymore deeper because the ground was SO rocky (look at those rocks beside the bush... imagine a million of those in the ground!!!!!). I came to regret it when it came winter time and decided that I couldn't protect it when the graft was so high up I'd need a truck load of mulch. My garden is the ultimate lazy gardener test garden!! There was a tornado ripping through town and my roses got hit by it, but "only" (cause I know this will make you sad) lost one cane on Jude and Olivia (they were throwing out huge new shoots). DAs are very tough roses and I think very good for zone 5.

I will take more pictures soon and of the whole bushes for you, the roses have set buds for another flush!

A few more pictures of Olivia Rose Austin as a bush and in a vase (don't be fooled... my kitten is a ragdoll she is huge!) This rose is just one word... H E A L T H Y!!!

@Rose Sniffer Wow, such pretty pictures and the last one with a rose and kitty totally melted my heart. I loooove cats. I like them so much and when we decided to get a husky, I made sure to get a cat first to establish the alpha/pecking order before getting the dog. Our husky and kitty grew up so super well. Your ragdoll is so cute and fluffy! This is making me want another cat... I need self-control. haha. Thank you for the Poet's wife. It's one of the only yellow DAs hardy to zone 4 but it looks a little too rich yellow on the website pictures and catalogue. I love the color in your picture. Thank you so much for the time and effort to post the pictures! I hope this thread will help other northern gardeners too!

@ratdogheads z5b NH Hi Diane, I looked at Palentine Roses and indeed their climate is probably very similar to mine. I actually visited the town a few times during my graduate school years as my school was just one hour away. I truly want to order a couple from them but the names all seem to be soooo unfamiliar. I've been hanging around this forum for a while and see some commonly recommended roses, but the ones Palentine have seem to be quite different. Do you have recommendations from them for a heavy and constant bloomer good for mixed border? Oh, I'm a newbie so I'd pretty something not too fussy. I prefer apricot or yellow ( soft, or lemon yellow, not gold tone). Thanks!

I contacted DA and here's the list they give me for DAs hardy to Zone 4:

Queen of Sweden

The Ancient Mariner

Gertrude Jekyll *

Scepter’d Isle

The Alnwick Rose

Lichfield Angel

Olivia Rose Austin

Susan Williams-Ellis

Strawberry Hill *

James Galway *

The Generous Gardener *

The Mayflower

The Poet’s Wife

Harlow Carr

Princess Anne

Sharifa Asma

Mary Rose

Hyde Hall

Princess Alexandra of Kent

LD Braithwaite

Benjamin Britten

Lady of Shalott*

The Lark Ascending

Winchester Cathedral

Queen of Denmark

Roseraie De L'Hay

R Gallica 'Officinalis'

Rosa Mundi

Tuscany Superb

St Swithun*

Mortimer Sackler*

Tess of the d'Urbervilles*

*Climbers

Palatine's online ordering begins on Sept 14 and popular varieties seem out quickly. They don't have he website updated with new stock yet, but someone on this forum recently posted a link to their catalogue: Palatine 20-21 Rose Catalogue I'm just not seeing much for the soft peach/ apricot that you're looking for.

Take a look at Augusta Louise. She's a hard to find rose that's very popular among rose forum members. I do grow her, very lovely, maybe a tad brighter than you'd like? Search the forums though, you'll see lots of pictures and discussions. Cream Veranda is often highly recommend on the forum. Does bright yellow interest you? See Fresia, sold in the US as Sunsprite. I planted it year so I can't comment on hardiness, but it's a heavy bloomer, not constant, but quick repeating.

You had mentioned groundgover, cascading roses. The Vigorosa roses are ground cover and very reliable. Bright colors though. Palatine carries a lot of Kordes roses and they tend toward bold colors.

Perhaps you could contact Palatine and ask for advice. I've found them to be responsive and really friendly.

Are there any particular roses on the DA zone 4 list that interest you?

Would Queen Nefertiti suit your needs? She's also the rose in my avatar. She's been hardy for me down to -30 with no snow cover and she's my best bloomer. Depending on the weather the colors range from apricot to cream to peach and the fragrance is outstanding. She also stays a tidy 3ft with a nice rounded shape, not sprawling or lanky, so she does really well on the edge of my garden beside the walk up to the front door.

Grace is stunning! Is that one of the older Austins? Where did you get yours?

@ratdogheads z5b NH @joeywyomingzone4 The kindness, support, and knowledge on the Rose forum often renders me speechless! Thanks for your patience and putting up with my seeming indecisiveness! I have actually decided on more than a dozen roses for three new flower beds based on everyone's inputs. What is driving myself a little crazy is the quest for the almost impossible perfect "front yard-worth" roses. I think I've been hoping for landscaping performance with classic elegance with a soft pallet and vigorous for our short cold growing season. Cold hardy roses have limited choices on color, and the ones I love at first sight may not grow into the height that I desire (4 feet). My initial choices were Vanessa Bell, Olivia, and Roald Dahl, but then paused when I read from Right Rose that VB and RD grow to 2 and half feet in England, then probably they'd be similar size in my cold climate. Besides, they were rated as best for hot climate. Radoghead, as to your question, "Are there any particular roses on the DA zone 4 list that interest you?" I was looking at Poet's wife to replace VB in my order given the hardiness and height, but I worry the color is too rich or gold-tone. I want clear, soft, or lemon yellow here. I've also looking into other soft yellows and apricots to compare with VB and RD. I just wish there are places I could see them in person. This is harder than clothes shopping on line! :-O I think I'm going to try to take a break from my obsessive searching (if I can ;-) and come back later. Maybe the answer would appear by itself. haha.

Thanks everyone for your inputs and recommendations! I've decided on the following and some of them already ordered, others awaiting order confirmations. Excited! (All own root unless noted)

1) In front of my bedroom patio (west facing, prioritize on fragrance and shade tolerance:

1 Teasing Georgia

1 Marie Pavie polyantha

1 Cecile Brunner Polyantha

2) Southeast facing, ~ 5 hours sunshine by foundation, try tender roses, prioritize fragrance)

Desdemona (Grafted on Dr. from DA)

Betty White (HT)

scepter'd isle

(Will add one more climber and one larger bush)

3) South East facing Rock wall 10x10 feet

Generous Gardener,

Moon dance,

2 earth angels

(Will add one clematis)

4) Front garden, arbor left 19 feet, behind 8 bobos:

3 Olivia Rose Austins, 2 Ownroot, 1 grafted on Dr. from DA

3 Roald Dahl 2 Ownroot, 1 grafted on Dr. from DA

3 Vanessa Bell 1Own root, 2 grafted on Dr. from DA

1 Poet's Wife

1 Quietness (Buck)

5) side yard location #1, by lilac, opposite from an Incrediball hydrangea hedge:

1 Darlow's Enigma

6), side yard location #2, next to future mixed border of incrediball hydrangeas and a purple leaved weigela, such as tuxido.

Carefree Beauty (Buck rose)

7), ordered, need to find a planting location:

Bliss Parfuma

___________________

8), Will Order:

Bolero,

Simple Elegance Champagne Wishes hedge for the front yard but can't decide whether it is too late to buy from the local Lowes. Should I wait till Spring? Our first frost sometimes come as early as late September.

innocencia vigorosa or one of the yellow vigorosa

9) For the future list:

Distant Drum, Augusta Louise, one of the fairy tales, Shepherdess, Emilie Bronte

10) Continue to be on the search for:

a white or white blend climbing rose, nearly thorn-less for the front arbor.

When I placed order for 4 roses, my husband emailed to cancel his order. When I ordered 5 and said I should probably stop to try these out, he agreed. Then he asked how many, and I said a dozen. By now, I'm not updating with him any longer ;-) I think he's already considering me "crazy", putting in lots of money with so many uncertainties. Inspired by that, I decided to add more: Simple Elegance as a hopefully sure performer. ~_~ Talking about going overboard ;-)

I also ordered some garden markers and will start making labels. :-)

Have you looked at Madame Alfred Carriere for a white thornless climber? Not completely thornless but certainly not a new dawn

@Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley Thanks for the recommendation. The Madame Alfred Carriere looks great but it is listed as Z7 on AD website. I'm in USDA 4 and true climate is more like Z5. Interesting that you brought up the New Dawn. The new dawn looks great and is often listed as the most popular and highly recommended by pros and other website, but when search on the Houzz forum, it is reported to have tons of thorns. That's why this forum is invaluable!

Northlandyogi, with a list as you have chosen I can envision your yard will be a gorgeous haven for the birds to sing in.

Thank you, Berrypie! We do love birds and butterflies and have lots of them in the yard and would love to have more. We have two bird feeders and fill them twice a week and sometimes three times a week in Spring. We also got a small one attached to the window and have frequent visitors everyday! I try to follow the criteria for certified Wildlife Reserve Habitat and butterfly habitat and we are quite close: tons of berry and fruit trees, water, and places for young, and I also planted milkweeds, liatris and other butterfly friendly plants. It's wonderful to create a garden and yard for our animal friends as well as ourselves to enjoy. But I probably need to protect my fall bulbs and young roses as some of our mischievous yard animal friends don't quite respect boundaries. ;-)

Yes, I saw your Zone oh, but didn't realize it was Zone 4. That is much more limiting. Peter Schneider of Freedom Gardens and many others report the Mac is Hardy and will climb in zone 5. His book right rose right place is a treasure trove of Zone 5 roses. What is ad , by the way?

Also, I wouldn't say new dawn has more thorns than many other , but they are quite hooked. For me it's an advantage in attaching them to things and they are spaced enough I can put my fingers between them unlike others. But they are large and I always wear a hat gloves and long sleeve denim shirt. Love that birdhouse on the window!

@Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley Wonderful to hear! I'll take a better look at it and also the book. Thanks!

Some non-Austins that are working well for me....

Honey Perfume

Clothilde Soupert

Winter Sun

Thank you, Straw. Nice to see you back and active on the forum, though I haven't logged on myself in a bit. I have learned a lot from your posts over the years and super-admire your rose-growing skills and your roses:) If you can get roses to perform like that in Chicagoland, New England is small potatoes - that was one of my thoughts when I got started on roses.

Hope you and the family are well.

Nancy: good to hear from you. Thank you for your kind words. My main reason for posting in forums is to save folks from making the same mistakes like I did. I was into roses before 2000, then gave up due to blackspots (previous house was acidic clay). Moved to alkaline clay and planted 20+ trees instead. Trees are 1,000 times more work than roses !! It's a constant battle to keep roses alive through my zone 5a winter, so I admire and appreciate other cold-zoners like you who share about your roses.

Straw,

You have certainly saved me a ton, and I am grateful. Like you said, learning from cold-zoners is so key - and looking at your results and what worked and did not work for you, plus your notes about your visits to Botanical Gardens and how roses grew in same location, but different soil/ nurture conditions was immensely helpful. Because of you, my mistakes were limited to the $40 I put into two body bags at Home Depot, both bare-root, that promptly died on me and I gave up.

This forum in itself is a masterclass - without the expertise of posters like you, rose-growing looks mystical and unreachable for folks who want to get started. I spent about two years learning from Kim, you, VaporVac, Ingrid, Kristine, JeriJen, Melissa, Seil, BenT, Noseometer, Mad Gallica, LKayeWV, Sultry, Jin, Lilyfinch, Alana, anntn, aquaeyes, summersrhythm, flowersaremusic,Sheila, (and of yore, Molineux and GNabonnand). Helpmefind and the old Paul Barden website (someone thankfully restored it here - http://tlcfocus.com/paulbarden/roguevalley.html) were invaluable as well. Only then did I put dollars into the process - because the cost does add up quickly and better know what you are doing before buying than after (the roses) dying.

And then I ended up with wonderful rose experts in Linda Loe at Longago and Burling at Burlington Roses, who knew what would work well and what would not for cold zoners. The garden is starting to come together to where I envision it, slowly but surely.

The Paul Barden website is back! Thanks for the link!

Stephanie, you are most welcome. Sheila, Straw, Sunny, Vapor, thanks for the likes.

I hope to see pictures. Evolutions are the best.

Zone 5b, Chicagoland. I don't winterize, and I haven't lost a rose in a few years. Here's some garden pics

Al, your rose garden is gorgeous!! How many roses do you grow?

Nancy, beautiful roses! Can you tell me a little bit more about Honey Perfume?

Straw, I always appreciate how descriptive you are on your recommendations on this site and on HMF.

Al: Gorgeous garden, what are the yellow roses in your pics? Also what type of soil do you have: loamy, sandy, or clay? What's the lowest layer of your soil? Thank you.

I try to UP my winter-survival, lost many roses in poor-drainage clay. At first I felt bad, but many street trees here (N. Aurora) also died through freezing rain & poor drainage clay in my area. Now I spend at least 1 hour digging a hole, after testing for drainage by dumping a 5-gallon bucket of water. I have rock-hard clay above, with yellowish rocks & sticky & hard clay below that water can't drain fast enough for our heavy rain.

Small comfort: Here in alkaline clay I have very little blackspots & no spray compared to my last garden of acidic clay in Glen Ellyn.

Maslov- Thanks for the kind words. I grow 140 varieties, about 400 total.

Straw- It sounds like we have similar soil, as I'm in Elgin, not too far away. The yellow roses in the bottom pic are Julia Child, as are the yellow roses directly in front of the fountain in the top pic. My soil used to be slightly basic, but now is slightly acidic due to my spraying and fertilizing. When I first started gardening I would dig the hole 3 foot deep. "The almightly hole!" The top foot or so is good topsoil, then yellow sticky clay, finally rocks with clay. I haven't dug a good deep hole for the past few years, just getting lazy. So far I am getting away with it. Copious amounts of pea gravel works pretty well mixed in the hole.

Al Mitchell, you look like such a pro. Your roses are gorgeous!

Al: My top soil is much harder than yours (broke 3 shovels in the past 20 years). I don't dig unless after it rained. EarthCo. tested my amended soil to be at pH 7.7. Without amendments, it's at pH 8. Found a geological report of your soil in Elgin: excellent silty soil (clay mixed with sand).

https://files.isgs.illinois.edu/sites/default/files/maps/isgs-quads/elgin-sg-rept.pdf

Al, I’m impressed that you take such great care of 400 roses!

I seem to remember Nippstress saying that her MAC only bloomed if it had surviving wood, which was nearly never. Champagne Wishes is a good one, if it's available locally I don't think it's too late to plant. Gaye Hammond is a nice soft yellow that has done well here.

This is a very hardy seedling I developed a few years ago with very long lasting blooms that turn greenish, plant only has average disease resistance, a keeper though !

So pretty!!!