SHOP PRODUCTS
Houzz Logo Print
friedag

Pesky OT Question

friedag
14 years ago

Vee or anyone, I need help dating a menu from F.W. Woolworth Co. Ltd., Briggate and Leeds. I know it's prior to 1971 and the money changeover, but my usual sources are in disagreement. Here's a sample:

  • Luncheon Menu

To-Day's Fish

Cold Salmon Salad......6d

To-Day's Suggested Entree

Boiled Gammon and Parsley Sauce......6d

Vegetables

Dressed Cabbage......3d

New Boiled, Baked, Mashed or Chipped Potatoes......3d

To-Day's Suggested Sweet

Golden Sponge Pudding and Egg Custard......6d

Beverages

Pot of Tea (Per Person)......3d

Horlick's Malted Milk......3d (Made with Milk, Extra 1d)

Bottled Milk......2d

Minerals......2d

Cigarettes on Sale at Cash Desk
I notice 'To-Day' has a hyphen so perhaps that's another clue, besides the prices. What specifically is/are 'Minerals'?

All ideas will be greatly appreciated!

Comments (101)

  • annpan
    14 years ago

    Kath, I had Coronation Chicken at a buffet function catered by the WA Country Woman's Association many years ago but I have not seen it recently. I liked it, tangy and cool in hot weather.
    What about a beach wedding? They seem very popular where the wedding guests fly and stay at a destination like Bali. I presume everyone pays for their own trip and accommodation. A sunset ceremony would be magic, with that wonderful Balinese music in the background. So romantic!

  • colleenoz
    14 years ago

    Frieda, on the menu the date is given as "Monday, September 11". September 11 falls on a Monday in that time frame in 1922, 1933, 1939, 1944 and 1950. Food rationing began in 1940 and continued until 1954, so 1944 and 1950 are unlikely, given the menu. My bet would be on 1933 or 1939.

  • Related Discussions

    Pesky crabs in my pond

    Q

    Comments (3)
    Wow, Ricky. What an unusual problem! No crabs here in the northern US. So all I can do is think along! You say they eat the fish eggs. Does that mean they leave adult fish alone? My problem is the opposite, my goldfish are so happy in my pond that they have babies over and over, and we have to buy some kind of predator fish that will prevent overpopulation. The idea is they eat the eggs and tiny fish larvae, but leave the adults alone. I never thought of crabs for that... :) Mary
    ...See More

    Pesky pest !

    Q

    Comments (2)
    Brown marmorated stink bug, Halyomorpha halys. A nymph (youngster). It's an invasive insect that arrived in PA in 1998. Your creature is a youngster. Doesn't make the eggs but recently hatched from one. Instantly kill all you find. Here is a link that might be useful: info from Penn State
    ...See More

    question for pesky about your Morris chairs..

    Q

    Comments (2)
    Caroline, we have a morris chair so took some pictures for you. Hope they help? This first one shows the bottom of the chair (please excuse the dust, guess I need to get busy cleaning..this is Kitty's favorite chair)It appears to be hand tied. The cross bars that are tied to are metal. The thin lines you can see in the material are actually thin wires. Not sure what else is there? This picture shows the top with cushions removed. It is covered in the same material as the cushions. This is the chair with cushions on. They seem to be foam. Not heavy enough to have springs. Our mechanism is a little different than you chair, but the end result is the same. Hope this helps. Marylu
    ...See More

    OT......those pesky spelling glitches

    Q

    Comments (24)
    I've always been more interested in ideas than spelling. actually, and on this forum, I tend to just spit things out and write very informally...as if I'm talking. So forgive glaring errors, some of them are just typos and some just I didn't bother to check. I notice I'm often leaving out the apostrophes on contractions when I type...that little finger just doesnt want to move over to the apostrophe button. So just ignore those, ok? Another one who stumbles over vacuum. I always hesitate over religious too. I was a good speller in school but in Gr. 6 I got that one wrong on a spelling test and to this very day, still struggle to remember to put that last i in. I keep wanting to spell it religous. I've met a number of Americans who say "drug" when they talk..like "I got drug over to the inlaws for dinner." Is this an American thing?
    ...See More
  • ccrdmrbks
    14 years ago

    Vee-I don't know why I didn't think of it before-just call Princess Michael for advice. After all, she just went through it!
    Our daughter's wedding was actually pretty simple relative to others we have attended recently. We didn't have a horse and carriage or a 10 piece band or a shuttle bus for guests or a limo for the couple. We had the ceremony in our church, then drove to the reception. We wanted some alcohol at the reception, and dancing-neither of which could happen in our church hall. And I wanted to serve more than rubber church chicken and two new potatoes to people who had come from all over the US to be there with us.
    There was a bit of a gap between the ceremony and the reception, but not 90 minutes-the ceremony ended at 3:40, we did the receiving line, and some family photos, then drove about 10 minutes to the ballroom. The caterers were ready with appetizers when the first guests walked in, and we had a slide show running on a big screen-pictures of the couple from birth to the week before the wedding. There was plenty for guests to do until we all got there at about 4:45. People forget that this is the one chance to get those photos-everyone dressed up and together. Our new son-in-law comes from huge families on both sides, and they all came to the wedding, from many states. It takes time to organize 37 people in a group shot. And then 25 in another group shot. I don't mind waiting for the bride and groom, but I do expect that there is some place to wait and, hopefully, something to do.
    Destination weddings are very trendy right now-but that is asking a lot of family and friend guests-air fare, hotels, meals other than the wedding meal, and a gift to boot!

  • carolyn_ky
    14 years ago

    Vee, the best Southern punch is lemon sherbet with gingerale or Sprite (lemon-lime soda). No liquor at a Bible-belt church! Our family weddings are held at a church with the reception in the adjoining church hall and are not expensive.

    The prettiest wedding I've attended was that of my youngest aunt (four years my senior) held in a lovely garden. My daughter was the flower girl, and her cousin was ring bearer. Both wore white, she a short, organdy dress, and he a white suit. He had fallen on the grass and had a bright green stain on the knee of his trousers.

  • friedag
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Colleen, what an astute observation! I didn't notice 'Monday, September 11' on the scanned menu. For some reason my menu doesn't have a date in the same position, or elsewhere; but other than a few changes in the suggestions of the day, mine is almost the same. I can probably safely assume that my menu was from the same year, 1933 or 1939 -- now I'm guessing 1939. Thank you so much for thinking to look up what years that September 11 fell on a Monday!And I wanted to serve more than rubber church chicken...Ha! Cece, I've wondered if churches all use the same recipe, because I know exactly what chicken you are talking about.

  • colleenoz
    14 years ago

    I read a LOT of detective fiction and non-fiction ;-)

  • annpan
    14 years ago

    Well done, Colleen! Possibly 1933 as the war commenced in the UK on September Ist.1939. However, it was the time of the 'phony war' and I'm not sure if rationing and shortages had started. I could not read the menu well on my tiny laptop but it looked lavish!

  • woodnymph2_gw
    14 years ago

    Thanks for the Coronation Chicken recipe. I plan to copy it down for future usage. Seems I have been making my own version of it for quite some time. I just call mine Chicken Curry Salad. I don't use chutney, but substitute white grapes or mandarin orange slices. Also, I use chopped scallions rather than a white onion cut up.

    Seems like all the tea rooms in my part of Virginia were serving a version of curried chicken salad, for "Ladies' Luncheons", as we call them.

    Carolyn, do you live in a "dry county"? Just curious about the absence of alcoholic beverages. (My cousins in NC live in a "dry county.")

  • colleenoz
    14 years ago

    I looked up rationing as well (OK, I'm anal :-) ) and while petrol rationing was introduced on September 16, 1939, and surveys were taken of the population to facilitate ration book distribution towards the end of September, food rationing wasn't introduced until 1940.
    I'm inclined to think 1939 because the menu looks a bit lavish for the depths of the Great Depression, and I would have thought Woolworth's would have offered more simple meals.

  • veer
    14 years ago

    cece, how could I have forgotten my invitation to the Kent's wedding?
    I don't think we have 'Ladies' Luncheons' over here, but there are certainly 'Ladies Who Lunch'. The friends of Diana P of W would have been a good eg of the 'Sloane Ranger' type with time on their hands and husbands/fathers with a healthy bank-balance. I've never been part of that movement; our local cafés serve nothing more exotic than beans on toast. ;-)

    In the UK few, if any, churches have halls that would be suitable for a wedding reception. They are used for Boy Scout meetings, jumble sales, maybe kids parties . . . and they all have that peculiar smell.

    Frieda, you ask about church weddings. Here, until not so long ago it was either at the church or in a Registry Office (our local one had a back-drop of the gas works) For the last so-many years (10-15?) other 'venues' can be licenced for weddings. It is even possible to marry in a hot-air balloon, underwater and similar nonsense places, but still before a Minister of Religion or a 'registrar'
    Suddenly churches began to find a good source of revenue disappearing. It had always been required that one of the couple (usually the bride) be married in their parish where the banns would be read for three Sundays before the event. Ministers, vicars etc have now begun to realise that to keep the pews filled it was sensible to offer weddings to any couple where ever they were from. Banns are still read, as required by law (and pinned up in the porch) but is has boosted the income of many a pretty country church . . . but done little for the churches in the middle of an urban slum or run-down Council Estate.
    Carolyn, I can't imagine an English wedding with nothing but 'pop' to drink. Even the Methodists have let their hair down enough to allow alcohol to be served on their premise, for functions.

  • Chris_in_the_Valley
    14 years ago

    Frieda, the wedding in Steel Magnolias is a goat roping by the standards with which I grew up. I recommend the movie. A chick flick for sure, but it has an amazing cast and food is always there in a way that I didn't notice until I started thinking about it with this thread. "Iced tea, the house wine of the South."

    And red meat for this forum: "I do not see plays, because I can nap at home for free. And I don't see movies 'cause they're trash, and they got nothin' but naked people in 'em! And I don't read books, 'cause if they're any good, they're gonna make 'em into a miniseries."

    Woodnymph, doesn't matter if the county is dry or not. Down here communion is done with grape juice. We did Mom's 70th birthday party in the Fellowship Hall at church (and everybody thinks I poisoned half the county but that's another story.) Someone gave her a jug of "mountain dew" a.k.a. moonshine, but wouldn't bring it into the church building. They took her out into the parking lot to give her a taste and so she could put it directly into her car. Even them as do drink (almost everyone and btw, that is a phrasing common in the hills) pretend they don't when they are at church.

  • woodnymph2_gw
    14 years ago

    chris, I hear ya. I guess we in Tidewater VA are more in the Anglican tradition, where alcohol is generally served at weddings and parties, with a choice of non-alcoholic beverages for the kiddies. The tiny Epis. Ch. I rarely attend serves real red wine at Communion.

    vee, please refresh my memory: is reading the banns done in advance so that anyone who thinks the marriage should not take place can come forward and protest? What is the tradition and "reasoning" behind this? Just wondering. I don't think we do this in the US. Maybe we used to in the olden days....

  • carolyn_ky
    14 years ago

    Yes, what Chris said. Some KY counties are dry, but Protestant churches are all agin demon rum and its cousins.

  • veer
    14 years ago

    Mary re wedding banns. The site below is from a combination of a C of E/Methodist church 'somewhere' in England. It sets out the rules for banns etc quite clearly.

    Chris I notice you mention that your Mother put the 'moonshine' directly into her car. I bet with that rocket fuel in her tank she got home in double quick time.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Wedding Banns

  • friedag
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Woodnymph, I figure there are almost as many alternative names for the curried chicken salad as there are recipes. I don't know if they can all be traced back to 'Jubilee Chicken' and 'Coronation Chicken' but probably a good portion of them can be. Your variation with mandarin oranges and scallions sounds interesting -- I don't think I've had one with those. I have had a recipe with grapes.

    Vee, I recall seeing former churches in England in new guises: as book and flower shops, and even one as a hairdressers'. I think many Americans would find that somewhat disconcerting. Well, I guess the new venues for weddings make good business sense -- funding the maintenance and repairs of, for instance, a several-hundred-years-old castle must be costly. (I've been to Warwick Castle and watched the trebuchet launches.) The poor churches, though...

    Chris, I will have to see Steel Magnolias. I'm a sucker for any film that features food -- Babette's Feast and John Huston's The Dead being two of my favorites. I can't say that I understand the appeal of iced tea, except for the coolness on a hot day, but I know that my late sister-in-law and her family (of South Carolina) and my Alabama cousins could -- and do -- drink it year around. And, lord, they do like it sweet! I always watched in fascination when they added spoonful after spoonful of sugar to a tumbler of tea until there was a good inch of it undissolved at the bottom. My SIL would stir and stir. I couldn't stand it any longer and once told her that there was only going to be so much of the sugar that could be suspended in the amount of liquid she had. So what did she do? She poured in more tea, added a couple more spoonfuls, and kept up the stirring. I gave up and just accepted that she liked it that way!

    Growing up among German-American Lutherans, I thought everyone over the age of eight drank beer at home for lunch and a little wine with dinner. Our beer was home-brewed and very weak for the kids. The wine was homemade too. I didn't like either beer or wine and was never made to drink them, but I was considered an oddball. My grandmother also tried distilling but that was a secret, though not from the family who didn't see anything wrong with it.

  • Chris_in_the_Valley
    14 years ago

    Frieda, Oh the sacrilege of adding sugar to cold tea!!!! If you stir it in while it's still hot, the tea absorbs more sugar, of course. I can't stand it that sweet myself.

    I thought I'd moved to either Sodom or Gomorrah when I went to my first street festival in Baltimore and found that they served beer. There were children present! I was outraged.

    Veer, ;-D

  • woodnymph2_gw
    14 years ago

    Although I grew up in the deep South, I personally cannot tolerate the "sweet tea" served. But --then I do not really have what we call a "sweet tooth."

    I can recall drinking home-made Elderberry wine in southern states, and Blackberry wine, too. On New Years and Xmas, in Atlanta, my father traditionally made a homemade Egg Nog for the neighbors and family. He made it so strong that my German friend (who was our guest one holiday) still teases me about it.

    The year I lived in France, we drank a rose wine at the family table, and the children had their wine cut with water. When I visited Germany, I noticed that children were allowed beer at breakfast and in celebrations. But I'm sure the beer was a mild one....

  • ccrdmrbks
    14 years ago

    Another vote for unsugared tea-iced or hot. I like cold tea in the summer, but just with lemon. Mint tea is very popular here in Lancaster County among the long-time residents. I was first introduced to mint tea when I visited my not-yet-husband's family for the first time. It was a large, extended family gathering-two grandmothers, his siblings, parents, and an aunt and uncle. Nervous, I accepted gladly when I was offered iced tea-it would give me something to do with my hands and would help wet my dry throat. I took a large gulp and nearly spit it right out again. It wasn't the regular tea I was expecting, but made from real mint leaves...and heavily sugared. Shudders.

  • friedag
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I admire your aplomb, Cece! If I can't get out of drinking tea, I will hope apprehensively that any I'm offered is unsugared.

    Colleen: speaking of the ration years, they seem to have fundamentally changed people's eating habits in some respects. US rationing was only during the war years -- four years at most, compared to the fourteen years in the UK -- but the generations who lived through the Great Depression and the war had to adapt. It's funny how often people became fond of the adaptations: I remember as late as the seventies that people were still eating 'Mock Apple Pie' (aka 'Cracker Pie' and 'Ritz Pie') and using oatmeal as the filler for meat loaf. One of my aunts, who was a toddler during the war, to this day prefers the taste of margarine over butter because, as she says, "[she] was weaned on it."

    The returning GIs were the big instigators of the change in American eating habits -- not all for the better, I'm afraid, but at least we were no longer so regionally insular. My own father brought home a recipe for Sukiyaki after his service in the Pacific theatre, wanting his mother to make it for him. She refused so he wound up making it himself and inviting all the folk at home that day to try it. The older people and kids would have no part of it, but those in their late teens through middle age were fascinated, though tentative. Several eventually came around to liking sukiyaki (but they never could pronounce it correctly). I grew up eating my daddy's sukiyaki, and I thought it was normal for German-Americans to eat it until my mother told me the story of its entrance into our family's repertoire.

  • lydia_katznflowers
    14 years ago

    friedag, I find rationing and depression stories fascinating. My grandfather liked ersatz coffee (forget the name of it) so much that he continued to drink it even when the real thing came back. It smelled like burning toast.

    I still make recipes called "Poor man's cookies" and "Eggless milkless cake" taht date to the 1930's or before.

  • veer
    14 years ago

    As someone brought up during the 'Age of Austerity' who still saves string, wrapping paper, elastic bands etc., one of the basic food stuffs I treat with respect is eggs.
    They were very scarce during and after WWII and though many people started keeping hens there wasn't always enough poultry feed to sustain them.
    I still think of an American cousin who visited recently. I offered her scrambled eggs for breakfast and she ate only about two mouthfuls and pushed the rest aside. It took all my good manners not to say "That was made with three eggs. Don't waste it."
    A farming family we knew used to drink hot water and milk, left over from the days when the tea ration was about 2oz a week.
    Of course the Depression was worse for low income families than WWII in the UK. At least with rationing everyone got at least the basics to sustain life . . . I certainly don't remember any fat/chubby children in those days.

    Frieda, as an American with strong German roots did you grow up eating dumplings, strudel, sausages, sauerkraut etc?

    Lydia, in the UK we have (or had) a terrible bottled coffee essence called 'Camp' rumoured to be made with burnt almonds. Some people preferred it to the real thing.

  • Chris_in_the_Valley
    14 years ago

    As a compulsive reader of everything that came my way, of course I perused a recipe pamphlet found in the back of Mom's kitchen utensil drawer. Figuring no one would complain about my using the meager ingredients, I became proficient at making "One Egg Wonder Cake." I now realize the pamphlet must have been recipes from times of rationing, but to me it was an easy treat that wouldn't mess with ingredients needed for dinner.

  • friedag
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Lydia, could the coffee substitute have been made from chickory? I know chickory was a favorite in parts of the South, particularly in Louisiana, so much so that they still blend it into real coffee to flavor it. Community brand and Cafe du Monde coffees have chickory. I'm not a coffee drinker but I like the aroma. I always perked up when driving into New Orleans from over the twin-span: on top of the high rise above the industrial canal, whiffs from the Community coffee roasting plant could wake the most stubborn commuter-car passenger. It always did me, just in time to catch the porno billboard! I wonder if it's still the same -- I fear not.

    There were a lot of those 'poor man' recipes, some of which actually dated back to the First World War. Quite a number of them were really good, in my opinion. One of my favorites is a pork dish with the ironic name of 'Arabian Stew'. I still like Kate Smith's recipe for coffee cake. I had 'Vera Lynn cake' as well -- can't recall if it was a one-egg or a no-egg cake, probably no-egg since Vera was English.

    Chris, your cake recipe sounds similar to what I used to stir up in my dorm room to "bake" in a popcorn popper (the electric poppers we had back in the late sixties were more like crockpots). Invariably the cake was scorched on the bottom and not quite done in the middle, but the charm was not so much in the taste as in the pleasure of illicit cooking.

    Vee, I think many Americans love-hate eggs: some want to eat 'em but they feel guilty if they do. For twenty or thirty years we had it drummed into our heads that eggs are cholesterol-laden and diabolical. It was different in my grandmother's day when she and most nutritionists advocated that a child should have an egg every day, if possible. Now that it's known that there are different kinds of cholesterol, eggs are not so maligned. But a lot of people still haven't gotten the message. Of course some people shouldn't eat eggs, but most people can without ill effect.

    Vee, yes, I grew up eating all those foods you mentioned, but the dumplings and strudel were only for special occasions -- strudelmaking, particularly, is a big production, not to be undertaken solo and probably not recommended for fewer than four sets of hands to stretch the dough (my grandmother used her 5-ft by 8-ft dining table as a template).

    Krautmaking was a production, too, but only had to be done once and then you could eat the results for a good year or longer. I witnessed wurstmaking a few times, but by the time I was growing up most people relied on the professional sausage makers.

    One thing we didn't eat was 'German Chocolate Cake' -- not Black Forest Cake but the chocolate layer cake with toasted coconut-pecan frosting and filling. Anyone who knows anything about Germany would recognize that neither coconut nor pecans would have been likely ingredients for a traditional German cake. The recipe that Americans recognize as German...

  • lydia_katznflowers
    14 years ago

    friedag, my gf was a transplanted southerner so it could have been chickory. I cannot remember the ingredient but I think the brand name was well known. I have read the name in books of that era, historical novels and in memoirs.

    My sisters and I still get together before Xmas to make huge batches of cookies but most of the group cooking and family baking projects have disappeared. It appears that it is women who are no longer as cooperative. Men still like to collaborate on barbecues and fish fries.

    Corned beef and cabbage is not Irish. German chocolate cake is not German. This is seriously deflating.;)

  • carolyn_ky
    14 years ago

    Lydia, was it Postum? I remember my parents drinking that during the War. My grandfather adored coffee, and they used to give him some of their coffee ration stamps.

    I found out about German's chocolate when I got my chocolate cookbook printed. Two things were not allowed--you couldn't say German chocolate, and you can't print a recipe called Derby Pie (or even Horse Race Pie) because it is copyrighted. You can, however, print a recipe called Chocolate Chip Pie which has the same ingredients.

  • Kath
    14 years ago

    A chocolate cookbook??? Why have I not heard of this??

  • Chris_in_the_Valley
    14 years ago

    Carolyn, oooooh, Derby, er, Chocolate Chip Pie!! Does it have pecans? and bourbon?

  • rosefolly
    14 years ago

    I don't think brides take bridesmaids out to lunch here on the west coast. From my observation, it is All For The Bride, a period of indulgence and excess. No wonder Bridezilla has become the new caricature of a bride. Weddings have become immensely expensive, much more so than they were a generation or two ago. I do wonder if the recession will tame that a bit, but who knows? Certainly the expense cannot be justified on the grounds that one only gets married once! Here there is likely to be a bridal shower (friends and relatives of the bride throw a party and give gifts) followed by a bachelorette party (bridesmaids and perhaps close friends get together, sometimes locally, sometimes at a destination such as Las Vegas; usually a lot of alcohol is involved, sometimes some colorful male dancing), then the rehearsal dinner (given by the groom's family), and finally the wedding and wedding reception (grander gifts than the shower). It is very expensive for the bridesmaids. I know a young woman who decided after her first experience as a bridesmaid that she would have to turn down future such invitations. She just could not afford to participate.

    Rosefolly

  • veer
    14 years ago

    Here in the UK 'showers' either bridal or baby are unknown, nor have I heard of dinner's paid for by the groom's side. Wedding presents are the norm, although I know of couples already living together and needing nothing in the line of household items, who ask for money towards a fancy honeymoon. Seems greedy to me.
    What has now become big business these days are 'stag' and 'hen' nights/weekends.
    The hung-over bridegroom, who finds himself, wearing nothing but his underpants and chained to a lamp post in some Godforsaken town with a hour to get to the service seems to have given way to a group of lads or girls (never together) arranging some sort of 'activity' often overseas; maybe Dublin or one of the cities of the Baltic States. Females tend to stay nearer home and dress (undress) in silly or very vulgar costumes and vast quantities of drink are consumed by both sexes. As Paula says it all costs a huge amount of money. Usually these 'events' are held about a week before the ceremony to enable the participants to sober-up.

  • friedag
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Lydia, that's an interesting observation about women not participating together as much as they once did in cooking -- do you think it's true with other projects as well? I am thinking about quilting and sewing bees...I haven't been to one of those in ages. Oh, yes, the men do seem to congregate and enjoy cooking at barbecues, shrimp boils, etc. They don't have to be kinfolk or bosom buddies either, which seems to be requisite with most women. I know that women still cooperate very well together -- when they must -- but I have a feeling they don't feel they must because they don't have the time or inclination. Women are overstretched and often are far away from the traditional sources of cooperation: sisters, mothers, aunts, female cousins. I don't have sisters, but my mother had three and I always found their interaction fascinating. I did have three sisters-in-law and always got along very well with them, but we only saw each other sporadically.

    Heh! Lydia, there are probably a lot of those misnamed and wrongly-attributed dishes and recipes. One that used to annoy me (but I accept now) is Chicken Fajitas. Since fajitas means skirtsteak, saying Chicken Skirtsteak is absurd and Shrimp! Fajitas even more so!! What is meant though, of course, is "in the style of fajitas."

    Carolyn, is your chocolate cookbook only sweets or do you cover unsweetened chocolate dishes, such as mole and 'Cincinnati Chili'?

  • carolyn_ky
    14 years ago

    The cookbook is called Collection of a Chocophile and is all sweets, all the time. It starts with beverages and goes on--and on. Astrokath, they are available by the box. I even put it on Amazon to no avail. This wasn't one of my more successful ventures!

    I have to say that Chocolate Chip Pie is not one of my favorites. I like more gooey stuff, like the Chocolate Chess Pie recipe I have shared here before that Frieda says she really likes, too. For anyone interested, here are the recipes.

    CHOCOLATE CHIP PIE

    2 eggs, slightly beaten
    1 cup sugar
    1/2 cup all-purpose flour
    8 Tbsp. butter, melted and cooled
    1 cup chopped walnuts
    6 oz. package semisweet chocolate chips
    1 tsp. vanilla extract
    2 Tbsp. bourbon
    1 unbaked pie shell

    Mix in the order given, pour into unbaked pie shell, and bake for 45 minutes at 350 degrees.

    CHOCOLATE CHESS PIE

    8 Tbsp. butter
    1-1/2 oz. semisweet chocolate
    1 cup brown sugar
    1/2 cup white sugar
    1 tsp. vanilla extract
    1 Tbsp. flour
    1/2 egg shell of milk (I think about 3 Tbsp; this is an old recipe)
    2 eggs
    1 unbaked pie shell

    Melt butter and chocolate together and set aside to cool. Beat together sugars, unbeaten eggs, milk, and vanilla. Add flour and mix well. Add chocolate mixture. Put in an unbaked pie shell and bake for 45 minutes at 350 degrees.

  • Kath
    14 years ago

    Thanks Carolyn, I will have to try those recipes.

    I have never really known communal cooking with women. And men all stand around the meat at a BBQ but generally only one or two actually turn the sausages *BG* The women have usually all brought a salad from home at an Aussie BBQ (and I have never known anyone to put a shrimp on the barbie, either LOL).

  • lydia_katznflowers
    14 years ago

    Postum-hmm, that looks right. It probably was. Thank you Carolyn for remembering it.

    The chocolate recipes look terrific!

    Those Bridezilla shows on television are disgusting. They are getting the attention they want by acting the ultimate selfish witches.

    Friedag, I think it does affect all parts of the activities that women once did together. Our church used to have a group of ladies who volunteered to cook for festivities, fetes and funerals. They have dwindled down to only two regulars and whatever help they can snag. The men have taken over more of the volunteer cooking for their own projects of prayer breakfasts and bazaars. The block parties in my neighborhood are most all instigated and put on by the men. The women may contribute a covered dish brought from home but many times the women themselves will not appear, sending the food with the men or children.

    I think you are right, friedag, that it is isolation from close female companionship that is influencing it.

  • carolyn_ky
    14 years ago

    My sister is a terrific cook and hosts our family holiday dinners; i.e., Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, birthdays. She said once that when our mother was gone, she wanted it to be her house we all came to. I have wondered from time to time if she regrets saying that!

    Last week we went to my brother and SIL's new house for their grandson's sixth birthday, a personal shower for my niece who was to remarry on Friday night, and to see the new house. My niece's new inlaws-to-be came to the party. We always take food to everything, and after going back for second helpings, the MIL TB said, "I'm really glad to get to know these people."

    Our daughters don't contribute the way we do, but I think that is because they still depend on us to do it and that they will continue the tradition as we age out. Once at a gathering at my mother's house, someone asked her if she had done all the cooking. She said, "No, that's what I had daughters for."

    I do enjoy having friends over for meals. They always come, but I've noticed that not many reciprocate anymore. I think it's because eating out is so much easier, and people have more money to spend these days.

  • friedag
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Lydia, it seems to be a big cultural switchover, gender-wise, that you are describing. I think I've noticed it, too.

    Carolyn, your family sounds close-knit and the traditions are important enough to everyone that the next generations will take them up. I think if my family had stayed in Iowa the traditions would have lasted, but we got too scattered. While growing up I loved to be around the womenfolk. I didn't realize how much I missed those experiences until this past summer when I had my teenage niece staying with me. She seemed genuinely interested in learning family history and how things were done in the 'old days'. At any rate, she endured my blabbing and reminiscing with grace. She gets it all because she's the only girl -- all her first cousins being male.

    Yeah, reciprocity seems no longer to be a social obligation. Maybe that's a good thing, in a way, but I always feel so honored and privileged when I am asked to eat at someone's house. However, it's really a cultural thing: some regions and ethnic groups just seem to be more hospitable than others. I think shyness is a big part of why some people don't invite outsiders into their homes. For example, the English seem particularly shy (maybe Vee or others can verify this) but it's why I've always felt particularly privileged to be accepted at an English family table.

    Italians I've found to be so naturally inviting that they quite astound me. Last year when I was living across the bay from Naples, my flat overlooked a busy road. But on the other side of the road was a ten- or twelve-foot stuccoed fence wall that seemed to stretch for a mile or so. I could see that the trees behind the wall were fruit-bearing ones and I was curious to know what kind of orchard it was. While out walking one day I found the wrought-iron gate in the wall, so naturally I loitered and did my best to peek through it. Well, I was thoroughly embarrassed when I pressed my face between the iron uprights to find myself nose to nose with a woman whose headgear indicated she was a sister of some sort. I apologized the best I could (my Italian is awful), but instead of shooing me off the sister opened the gate and beckoned to me to enter. To shorten a long story I will say that I spent the most delightful morning viewing the monastery orchards and vegetable gardens, and then I was served the loveliest tomato/mozzarella salad and lemonade made from the lemons of the trees I had been admiring. I don't know if the sisters do this for every nosy gate-peeper, but it hardly matters because it was an unexpected pleasure to me.

  • woodnymph2_gw
    14 years ago

    I'm fortunate enough to live in a very multi-cultural area. Every year there is a huge Greek Festival. This has been going on for decades. The women of our Greek community all get together and cook the various Greek dishes. I've talked to them and they spend days preparing for this and it is very much a communal effort. The men also roast lamb outdoors on a spit and prepare the wines to be sold. The children learn the wonderful Greek dances and perform for the rest of us. This event lasts 4 days and these women have been cooking together for many years.

    I think America is such a large nation and we are all so fragmented, with scattered families,that it is hard to hold on to the older customs and traditions.

    Carolyn--- "people have more money to spend these days." Oh really? Not in my neck of the woods....

  • veer
    14 years ago

    Freida, you are right about the English not being very forthcoming with their invitations to visit/dine etc. You are too polite in saying it may be because we are shy. I think it is because we regard our homes as our castles and are not keen on letting the drawbridge down. Nor is there any 'habit' of welcoming new neighbours or popping next door for a chat or a cup of tea. I know one reads about it in stories of the 'good old days' especially in working class areas but wonder how true it is.
    As children from a relationless family we never went into anyone's home, neither did we have local children to play with and nor did my parents visit friends. We lived in what was my Father's home town where he had many men friends who he would meet at the pub or at sports events. I don't think wives or children played any part in their macho lives. Are these type of men found in the US? (I know they are in Aus.)
    Even in this village where we have lived for 30 years we are never invited into the houses of the 'locals' although we will pass the time of day if we meet them in the street.
    I feel the lives of non-working mothers can be very lonely and isolated.

    Carolyn, it must be great having such a large loving family . . . and your choccy recipes sound great. I'd be pleased to buy a copy of your book. How do I find one?

  • carolyn_ky
    14 years ago

    Woodnymph, the "more money" statement was a comparison of my childhood years, not the present recession time, although I see lots of people who still eat out a lot.

    Vee, did you once tell me that you live fairly close to Hay-on-Wye? That is a day trip my daughter and I would love to make next time we are able to visit London, which I hope will be next year. (This is the second year without a London fix, and I'm in withdrawal.) I would be more than happy to bring you a cookbook if there is a convenient place to meet you--besides which, I would love meeting you anyway. Otherwise, if you REALLY want one, I will mail it to you with your bookmark for Christmas.

  • veer
    14 years ago

    Carolyn, you would be most welcome here (and I promise not to do the English thing of turning the lights off and hiding behind the curtains or in the garden shed 'til the visitors have left). I have just consulted the map and see that Hay is about 55 miles from here . . . real country miles with lots of very pretty scenery. You couldn't do it as a day-trip from London. Ideally you should take a couple of nights to soak up some atmosphere/chill out etc. You would also need to hire a car; Hay is off-the-beaten-track.
    I'll email you.

  • Kath
    14 years ago

    Vee, the 'men down the pub with their mates' scenario was very common in Australia, but is much less so now. Part of that is probably that pubs now let women in the front bar area! (Shock, horror). Young people go to pubs to drink with friends of both sexes, and the women get just as drunk as the men.
    My parents were very good at having large parties and barbeques, and often had 'farewell' type get-togethers at our house.
    We used to do a lot of entertaining, and our friends reciprocated, but since I went back to work we have done less. There just seems to be too little time in a weekend to devote it to the cooking and cleaning involved, sadly.

  • lydia_katznflowers
    14 years ago

    Friedag, what a wonderful story about the monastery orchard!

    For many years I thought that I had too many relatives, but the older I get the fonder I remember most of them-even the eccentric ones. My two sisters and I grew up fussing constantly-I think we were too close together in age. As sibling rivals we tended to downplay each other's assets and concentrated on the negatives to pick on. It is silly now to recall. Just the other day I noticed how good a dancer my youngest sister is and I am proud of her for it!

    Veer, there are indeed U.S. males with the same mindset of "buddy loyalty" and taking the wife/children for granted. I do not think it is so overt as it once was, however.

    Some Americans have the attitude of "my house is my castle and do not be so presumptuous as to ask to enter." I think it is part of the cocooning instinct that when the outside world seems so hostile, hide. Women may have the greater tendency to want to do this-more women seem to be agoraphobic.

  • lydia_katznflowers
    14 years ago

    I am sorry that my last posting appears to have been a killjoy. This is such an interesting thread that I am reluctant to let it go. So I want to make a comment and ask a question before I leave it.

    Carolyn KY, I ordered your "Collection of a Chocophile" from Amazon. I am a chocophile too, so I am sure that I will enjoy reading and trying your recipes.

    Friedag, I have a question. Is there a particular reason why you used "chile" for the spelling when you were talking about peppers? I notice that it is the spelling "Chile" magazine uses too.

  • carolyn_ky
    14 years ago

    Thank you, Lydia. I received the notification from Amazon and was wondering if it was from one of you at RP. Hope you enjoy it. I just made Foothill Dream cookies from it for the first time, and they went over well at my women's group at church. My husband said they were too crispy, but it didn't keep him from eating his share.

  • friedag
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Lydia, please don't think your post about your sisters and the instinct of many American women to cocoon was a damp squib. I read with great interest, smiling and nodding my head in agreement. Although I should have acknowledged it, I didn't think I had anything pertinent to add; thus I completely forgot to say anything! I figure it's the same with most readers -- and I'm sure that there are a lot more lurkers than contributors!

    It's a natural progression of most threads, I think, to go hot and heavy for a while (usually only when they're new). But when the novelty wears off, they dwindle until they just stop. It's not the last poster's fault! Sometimes threads are dormant for a spell, only to wake up and have another short burst or two of activity. Most likely, though, the same topics will be recycled in different threads. So, Lydia, just stick around and you can read multiple retellings of my stories -- unfortunately I only have so many in my repertoire.

    As for why I spell it chile: force of habit, probably. I have lived in and have strong associations with the American southwest where that is the preferred spelling for certain Capsicum. Being as they are native to Mexico and Central America, the Spanish form seems appropriate. It also distinguishes the peppers themselves from the meat stew, chili con carne, that is usually shortened now to just 'chili'. Herr Gebhardt who first peddled his concoction of the typical Mexican and mestizo spice combinations in San Antonio, Texas was likely a bit fuzzy about the distinction between 'chile' and 'chili' -- so it's chili powder for chili. Anyway, the usual rendering of the Nahuatl word for the same Capsicum is 'chilli'. So take your pick as to how you want to spell it, but be warned that Mexicans and American southwesterners observe the distinctions! :-)

  • ccrdmrbks
    14 years ago

    I still see the gender-bonding happening a lot where I live. First of all, there is a large Amish population in Lancaster county, and both the women and the men gather often-barn raisings, quilting bees, harvest work parties, etc. Their way of life is pretty much the same as it was generations ago. But even among "us English" (what the Amish call non-Amish) there is still a lot of community activity along gender lines. In the spring we have the "mud sales" every weekend to raise money for the local fire companies, with the women cooking and selling food and the men dealing with the auctions. In the Fall we have Harvest Festivals with about the same job breakdowns. I suspect, though, that it is a small group that does all the work, as in most organizations-and that group is getting smaller and older. I know that is happening in the Women's Group at my church-there are very few of my age or younger who participate. (I don't. They meet during the work day or on Saturday mornings.)

    It also just occurred to me that my generation rebelled against being "relegated to the kitchen" and marched out in droves to "have a career" and this is probably one reason why the gender-bonding within traditional roles has faded.

  • sheriz6
    14 years ago

    Carolyn, Amazon currently says your cookbook is "temporarily out of stock". I'd love copy for my mother (a true chocoholic if there ever was one!). If I go ahead and order, do you have more copies?

  • carolyn_ky
    14 years ago

    Sheriz6, I have sent another copy of the cookbook to Amazon to the attention of "Inventory" so they should have it soon. However, I would be more than glad to mail you one myself--I have LOTS of copies. The cholesterol gremlins hit just about the time I got it printed. When I have shown it at different places, I get a lot of women saying they love chocolate but can't eat it. However, when I have had samples, they always seem to manage them.

    If you want one sent directly, e-mail me at cnewlen at bellsouth dot net.

  • annpan
    14 years ago

    Friedag, I'm so glad you said that when a thread dies it is not the fault of the last poster. I did seem to be the last one on a number of threads a while ago and wondered 'was it something I said?'. Especially when one poster I disagreed with disappeared completely. Oh, dear! I do try not to 'stir' but sometimes this happens unwittingly.

  • friedag
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Annpan, it happens to all of us eventually, getting in on the tag-end of a discussion. I've also thought 'was it something I said?' I have responded to remarks from people who say they are posting for the first time -- and it turns out to be their only time. Well, was I too honest or not friendly enough? I don't know -- you never know really what is going on with people in their real lives. 'Unwittingly' is right, most of the time, I think; although I have to admit that I do stir on occasion -- but only with posters I think I know well enough that they will take it in the spirit of debate that I intend.

    I wish that I could respond to each and every thing that a poster writes that makes me think; but if I did, readers and other posters would get mighty tired of me: I think I blab too much as it is. :-)

    Anyway, I hope that Lydia is not one of our 'disappearers'. I'm afraid that we've lost too many once-active posters. Maybe she and they will come back eventually.

  • lydia_katznflowers
    14 years ago

    Friedag-I did not disappear. Life just got in the way for awhile. I did not expect to come back and find myself a topic of the conversation! I was really just joking about being a thread killer; I was not upset. I am touched that you thought you offended me. You and everyone at RP have been very friendly.

    Thank you for explaining the difference between "chile" and "chili." I will remember it.

Sponsored
Preferred General Contracting, Inc.
Average rating: 4.7 out of 5 stars9 Reviews
Fairfax County's Specialized, Comprehensive Renovations Firm
Best of Houzz 2024: The results are in!