Are you taking the first two drugs because of pain issues? I have fibromyalgia, and like many people with this condition I have one of window of opportunity to fall asleep reasonably quickly. If I miss the window (which I often do because it arrives unexpectedly at a time when I'm unwilling or unable to drop everything and go to bed), I have a hard time getting to sleep. I wonder if you might be experiencing something similar.

If so, I recommend that if you start yawning at 8:00 p.m., or whenever, go to bed.

Naps are sometimes recommended, and sometimes not recommended. Maybe a nap would be helpful for you. My urge to nap usually comes around 6:00 p.m., which I feel is rather late, so I don't indulge it.

Do you have caffeine in the morning? Some people are very sensitive to it. My parents could have coffee after dinner with no problems, but sometimes even a cup of decaffeinated tea upon arising will make me wakeful and restless at midnight. I can't explain it, but it's true.

Have you tried shifting your thinking? Go to bed prepared with a few completely benign, innocuous things to think about. Sort your wardrobe by color......unless, of course, clothes excite you. Imagine yourself dusting the stairs. This is how things like counting sheep came into being. You need to think of something repetitive and boring that won't stress or stimulate you.

The only thing I've taken is melatonin lozenges, 3 mg. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't.

You have my sympathy. I hope you don't have to get up early for work. I don't, and my last job started at 4:00 p.m., so sleep wasn't an issue then either. That makes a big difference. I can just read or lie quietly, and if the clock says 2:15 a.m., as it did last night, I can think, Oh, well.

Melatonin. Take it from a long time lack of sleep person. I didn't really believe it, but after taking 3mg nightly, I'm making it to the alarm clock ring. Now that I am catching up, I am thinking of backing off so I won't have as much side effect the next day. I have tried it all, so this is my absolute best suggestion.

Do some research on Magnesium--I've just been hearing in the past week, how important it is for resolving sleep issues. I, myself, have been eating a big spoonful of Peanut butter before going to bed for the past 2 nights--not sure how fast we metabolize Mg, and the results could be coincidence, but I've had a couple of the best nights of sleep in a long time.

Also, keep lavendar by the bed, to sniff as needed--it naturally relaxes you, few people are alergic to it, and it's a whole lot better than taking a bunch of drugs.

Stop the Tylenol PM. That's a mixed drug and the sleep ingredient can backfire on you. Try to never take combo drugs so that you can control what you are taking. The "PM" part is diphenhydramine hydrochloride, AKA benedryl or also packaged as various brands sleep aids, but taken for too long it just does not work. Are you taking Tylenol or acetaminophen in any other form during that day?

A good sleep doctor will sleuth out the possible reasons behind your sleep problems. There are so many culprits. And none of the remedies, including medications, will help if you have apnea.

If you think it is anxiety keeping you awake, I'd stop the Tylenol PM and the pain pills and try Niacinamide (OTC), lots of people say it works as well as benzos (Valium, Xanax, etc). Start at about 500mg, then raise as you feel better (up to 2500 mg). I had a headache the first couple weeks even at the low dose. I take about 1500 mg a day now.. seems to help relax me somewhat (not as much as a Xanax would though).

There are a lot of prescribed sleeping pills that would probably help you. Have you talked to your doctor?

Here is a link that might be useful: More about Niacinamide for anxiety

Whenever I have occasional sleep problems I pull out my trusty Aromatherapy Sleep Pillow Mist from Bath and Body Works.

Mine is Lavender Chamomile scented.

I spray it on my pillow. And get great zzzzz's.

You ought to give it a try.

Gah! Too much meds, phoggie! Glad you're seeing the docs about this.

I have the generic for Ambien, 5 mg. but I don't like to take that -- will nibble a bit if I'm awake during the night for an hour before 3 a.m. I have some osteo-arthritis pain, so I would start with a plain Tylenol 500 mg. at bedtime. Sometimes a warm bath helps. I have an electric blanket under my mattress pad to warm the bed *before* I hop in. I sometimes listen to one of my quiet Hawaiian CD's.

I have one cup of half coffee/half milk in the morning, and we have a cup of tea about 3 p.m.

Sometimes *nothing* helps at night. I'm not worrying about anything but random thoughts keep running through my head like electric currents. I also have tinnitis -- not helpful.

I tend to think women never calm enough at night once they've been a Mommy. Remember when you were young and could go to sleep and just DIE? I think our brains get reconfigured when we listen for Baby.

alisandi~~Yes, I do have pain.....arthritis consumes my body...and leg nerve damage.
No, I do not drink any caffeine...I have Barrett's Esophagus and it causes burning.
I think I have tried counting every way I know how to count...and do visualization and relaxation tapes.
I am retired....thank heavens....so I do not have to report for work...but do have activities that I need to be up at about 7a.m.

I did not have nearly as much problem UNTIL I was sent to the sleep clinic for evaluation and have to keep this darned "sleep journal"!!!....guess maybe "sleep" in just on my mind too much that I get anxious about doing it. I used to watch a light-hearted show from bed and then the news...put the TV on a timer and fell off to sleep. Watching TV from bed is easier on my back than sitting up in a chair. But I was told NO TV watching!!! but I think I am maybe trying too hard to sleep....but oh those hours go by slowly when I can't sleep. They also said NO LIGHT, but I fall easily and need night lights.

I go back for my sleep study on Oct. 8th...and not looking forward to that one bit. Good luck to them on getting me to sleep!

They only way I was able to get some sleep was to take about a 1/2 dose of NyQuil before going to bed. You can try ZzzQuil too, that doesn't have the extra stuff in it. I still wake up during the night and have to read to get back to sleep.

Here is a link that might be useful: ZzzQuil

What rhizo said.

Good luck.

I have had increasing sleep problems this year: waking about 3 AM & not able to get back to sleep, or only dozing or a light sleep.

I'm echoing Alisande & Rob333. I started taking 3 mg of melatonin (a natural substance in the body) about the end of July & find I get back to sleep most of the time & the sleep is deeper. I buy it at Target & think it was about $5.00. I'm going to continue it.

Good luck with your test, Phoggie.

I hate to see you adding the valium...I get stuck with the bathroom breaks as the meds i take i need water...can you rest after your 7am chore?

Are they doing a sleep study to see if you need a C-pap machine and measuring your breathing to see if you stop breathing OR are they just doing what I would call--so call sleep studies. Big difference. Hubby had c pap machine due to the fact he would stop breathing etc, did take Lanesta (very expenisive), but was very very allergic to ambiem or any drug with that in it and you will be surprised how many sleep drugs have a form of ambiem. Are you going to a specialist in sleep control? Maybe they are """trying too hard""" to find out what your problem, but not looking at the whole picture of your health. I find if I cut out chocolate out and really limit my sweets in the afternoon/evening, it makes a big difference. I have artthurtis, but can only take tynolol due to a bleeding problem I had. You may need your meds reevaluated and get a different opnion.
Good luck

Next time you see your chiropractor, ask if there is any scientific evidence connecting Vitamin D with sleep. I was unable to find any but I find the possibility curious, because that might mean that greater exposure to sunlight (which from strictly a Vitamin D standpoint is the safest source) could improve sleep. That's also something I hadn't heard before. Thanks.

Dorothy, I work for a chiropractor and he suggests the D3 also. Do you use the Metagenics brand? That's the brand we sell and there is also a product called Myocalm PM that works FANTASTICALLY! Just two of those at night makes me very sleepy and I don't wake up groggy! I'm not concerned if there is scientific proof; it works for me and for many of our patients too!

We both have problems sleeping too, Gary worse than me. He did have a sleep study, and was told he has sleep apnea, and received a cpap machine (all of this was through the VA and took a VERY LONG time.. nearly a year, from start to finish) and then only to find out that the cpap does very little good for him. He was so disappointed. He has tried over the counter sleep aids (on the advice of his doctor) and also Z-Quil (which seems to help occasionally) but so far nothing has been of much help. And, we both have to start work at 5 a.m. so the sleep issue is a big one.

Good luck with getting it figured out, phoggie. I hope your seep study offers some helpful results.

I have had insomnia all of my adult life and finally found a dr. who found the problem. She did a magnesium level on both parts of mag in the body. Standard tests only do one. I was so deficient and it contributed to my muscle spasms, cramps, and so many symptoms that I've lived with for years. I now take 350 magnesium with calcium as you need both to get good results. I take it in the evening, it's very calming and now I sleep so much better. Look up the symptoms of magnesium deficiency and those of you with firbromyalgis, it's a must. 72% of Americans are deficient, no wonder so many can't sleep. Do a little homework and you'll probably realize you have the same thing. Oh, by the way, taking it is a benign situation. Even if you took too much you're body will excrete the excess so don't worry about it. If you have kidney disease check with your dr. otherwise you're good to go.

Snidely, you have more faith in "scientific evidence" than I. My husband was a scientist, and he explained to me how flawed so many studies are.

I take D3 and haven't noticed a connection with sleep, but if it works for some, it works for some!

Phoggie, physical activity during the day often helps with sleep at night, but this may be difficult for you due to your arthritis. I should have mentioned that melatonin comes in a tablet that is swallowed, a lozenge to dissolve in the mouth (that's what I take), and a time-release version that's helpful to those who tend to have trouble getting back to sleep if they wake up later.

I hadn't heard of Myocalm, Juellie, but it sounds interesting. Quite a few good reviews on Amazon.

I remember my sleep study. I finally left at 4:00 a.m. without having gone to sleep. I do not have sleep apnea - my husband has a light case of it - had to get a special dental appliance made that slightly opens his airway - he has always snored to beat the band. After they hooked me up to a bazillion electrodes they told me that if I had to go to the bathroom they would have to unhook all of the electrodes - wonderful - so of course....Next up I kept hearing the EKG machine - they used paper then - and finally the oxygen machine being used on the woman in the next room - boom - every 12 1/2 seconds. I am basically a diagnosed insomniac. Certainly many of the remedies mentioned above will help some people - but lavender or any essential oil product etc. make my heart pound as does the sleep aid in Tylenol PM - and any other form of med that one would use to treat a cold/flu. Melatonin did zip for me as well. I do take Magnesium and it does help with the leg cramps. I am 63 and have been this way all of my life. I never look at the clock when I wake up; I do not turn on lights etc. Nothing really seems to matter. And when I wake up, I am wide awake - like turning on a light bulb. Makes life hard and I dread social engagements or appointments for this reason. Relaxation tapes drive me nuts. My aunt brought hers over and within minutes both she and my husband were passed out and I was sitting there annoyed with them. In your case I would start by making darned sure that the sedative ingredient in the meds you are taking is actually sedating you and not having the opposite effect. There are lots of us out there who experience the opposite effect. I still remember taking the Cdn. equivalent of Ambien - 5 days later I was still up. I hate any form of a surgical procedure - not the procedure itself - but knowing that no matter what they use on me it will wear off - local or being put under. I wish you well on Oct. 8. My dream in life is to sleep for 5 hours. Not asking much.

I find if I'm low on Vitamin D, I get awful muscle and bone aches. I think that alone could make for better sleeping! I'm a big proponent of Vitamin D, especially going into the winter months.

phoggie, Sleeplessness destroys the rest of the day - how difficult. You mentioned that you are apt to fall, my neurologist has me taking vitamin B12, 1000 mg to help with balance. When I forget to take it, I notice the difference. Again, being a natural substance, what the body doesn't need is excreted.

I know the experts say you shouldnt watch TV in bed, but honestly it helps me fall asleep.
Just lying there in the dark makes my thoughts wander
The other thing that has dramatically helped me was getting an adjustable bed.
Just slight raising my head and feet is wonderful.

I used to to take Ambien, but since getting the bed, I have stopped.

I hope you find the magic mix for you!

Alisande, use whatever words you want. When you receive medical care from a physician (MD), the treatment you receive is usually based on a demonstrated cause with beneficial effect that can be reproduced again and again. Not based on speculation or belief. People are human, no person or no approach is perfect, everyone is welcome to follow what works for them. I worry about well-meaning people being taken advantage of by quacks.

Physical activity is usually strongly recommended for people with arthritis, maybe our friend here is unable to do any?

Eccentric, sleep doctors do treat insomnia. After you walked away from the sleep test, what did they suggest?

Eccentric: If you walked away from the sleep test without ever sleeping I would think you could not know if you have sleep apnea or not. Most people have no clue that they stop breathing during sleep. How do you know for sure?

I hope the sleep study helps you Phoggie. I can't take the melatonin, it gives me bad dreams, and if I take it more than one night, it will give me nightmares.

You might try this relaxation technique. Get in a comfortable position. Now, starting with your toes, think to yourself, my toes are relaxed, my toes are relaxed until your toes are relaxed. Now move on to your feet the same way. Work up your body the same way, ankles, lower legs, knees, upper legs, low back, middle back, upper back, shoulders, arms, hands, neck, head. DO NOT DO YOUR CHEST! It will slow your heart beat too much!!!! I quite frequently only get as far as my knees before I fall asleep. Even if you don't fall asleep doing it, it will help you relax. If you keep getting distracted, start over. It will help focus your mind. Please try to back off the sleep meds. They may be contributing to the problem.

Tami

I do not sleep good at night either. It doesn't matter what time I go to bed. I read for a while and when I get tired I shut the light off and go to sleep. I about an hour I wake up and lay there for a while. Sometimes I turn on the light again and read or a I just lay there awake. Sometimes I dream which isn't very often and then I think I am getting some good sleep. I have to be at work by 6:30. I usually wake up at 12:30, 2:30 and 4 that I know of and lots of time in between. Most of the time I get up earlier than I have to because I can't go back to sleep anyway. I have noticed that when the barometric pressure is high it is worse. I have taken D3 for 3-5 years and it sure doesn't help me. I have tried Melatonin and that didn't work either. I guess I will just live with it. They said it gets worse after menopause but I had it before I had my hysterectomy and then I was on estrogen for 5 years and that didn't help either.

It is so good to hear from all of you and see I am not alone in this sleepless. I have tried so many things the rest of you have done also. I have been taking D3 for several years. I do the relaxation tapes...and it helps "some". Melatonin and Ambien wired me as if I drank a pot of coffee! Things tend to work just the opposite on me than what they are intended.

As someone mentioned about themselves......my heart rate is normally slow....50s....but it beats so terribly HARD!! That is what seems to keep me awake. Cardiologist never seems to think anything of it. I also have PVCs and PACs and the "extra" beats drive me crazy....I do take something of this and it helps some.....but nothing for that pounding!

Right now, I think I feel like falling asleep in this chair, but know when I hit the bed, I will be wide awake and lay there for hours!....but they say to keep the same bedtime, so I guess I'll head that way. I hope you all get a good night's sleep. Heck, I may break "the rule" and watch a bit of TV...what could it hurt?

Still recommend

Whenever I have occasional sleep problems I pull out my trusty Aromatherapy Sleep Pillow Mist from Bath and Body Works.
Mine is Lavender Chamomile scented.

Funny you should mention the pounding heart noise, phoggie. I get that sometimes and I think it might happen when my allergies have kicked in, making my sinuses/face feel like they're going to explode. It's especially loud when I lie down at that time. I haven't noticed it since the spring. Do you feel any pressure around your sinuses when you lie down?

I have good nights and bad nights. When I watch TV in the evening , I try NOT to doze off because that will be a sure sign of a bad night's sleep. Night before last was bad, last night I was so tired , I slept well with good dreams. I take an Advil PM, and if I am desperate a Benedryl. I have never used any sleeping pills. I take B6 and B 12 and 2000 units of vitamin D.

Phoggie - your symptoms sound a lot like mine. I have/had arthritis and was on medication but they would always stop working or I would start to react to them. I wasn't ready to move on to the new medications and when I reacted to the last one I looked into the natural route. Two years later, after mastering my diet (for me, no gluten, no dairy (although I can handle whip cream (no additives) in my coffee and a bit of parmesan cheese), pea protein, soy, and recently just eliminated nightshades (tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, all pepper including chili powders and paprika or any derivative) and officially, this past week I have no indication of anything! Before eliminating nightshades I had a lingering tightness but full use of my body which I was happy with but I know nightshades cause problems so I got rid of them. My joint issue is the last to resolve buy everything else resolved rather quickly - my heartbeat is normal (unless I cheat then it gets a little rapid for a couple of hours) but it was like yours, very slow (in the 50s) now it is good at 65, blood pressure, skin conditions (psoriasis and rosacea), hair grew back (it has been thinning for years now), no more sleepless nights (well, sometimes I have a few days where I get limited sleep but I'm not tired during this time, I just have less sleep?), regular periods and no more signs of endo., no fatigue, no aches (I would always get a feeling on my skin that it hurts, like I was at the beginning stage of a flu). I has been remarkable. I noticed things like canker sores and I asked my GP if my food had something to do with my conditions (before doing this diet) and he said no. I tested anyways:). Glad I did. My Rheumy is much more supportive and says "great" and is a bit curious. And my bloodwork shows no sign of inflammation or anything indicative of autoimmune conditions. Just google results of elimination diets and you will see so many personal stories of success. There are so many resources and support groups on line.

Just one more thing: cold feet. I don't know why it took me so long to learn this, and I didn't figure it out on my own: Cold feet will keep you awake. You might not even be aware that they're cold. I am aware, because with Raynaud's syndrome my cold feet are cold. And they definitely keep me awake. Many times I've had to force myself out of bed to go downstairs and warm up something to put at my feet under the covers.

Keep this in mind and see if it might apply to you some night.

Cookie8 makes a good point, and I should have thought about it too, as the foods in the nightshade family bothers me also. Google foods in the nightshade family. You will be amazed at how many there are, but the most common are tomatoes, potatoes, and okra, pepper, paprika, and I can't think of them all! Start keeping a food diary. Write down every single thing you put in your mouth. Food, gum, mouthwash, toothpaste, anything to drink. Eliminate the most common nightshade foods, like the potatoes and tomatoes (in any form including sauces). It could take as long as 3 months to show a big difference, but you might be surprised and see a difference in just a few days. If it doesn't do anything for your sleeplessness, it will at least help with the inflammation causing the arthritis pain. I really know it if I eat too many potatoes, which I love!

As to Alisande's comment about cold feet keeping you awake, that is also a possibility. Take an old sock, or sew a small bag and fill it with regular rice, not minute rice, and sew or tie shut. Before bed, put it in the microwave for no more than 2 minutes. Put it at the foot of the bed under the covers. If you are diabetic, make sure it's not too hot, and don't put your feet right on it to avoid burns. Just warm the sheets with it. I sew my bags and make them about 5 x 8" and fill them with field corn instead of rice. They can be kept in the freezer also for ice packs. I have also sewn channels in larger ones so the corn/rice didn't fall to the bottom of the bag to use on our backs.

Tami

I agree with Alisande about cold feet keeping you awake. No matter how tired I am, and I don't generally have sleep problems, I cannot sleep until my feet warm up. As the weather starts to cool at this time of year, I try to remember to stick a heating pad in my bed where my feet will rest and leave it on high until I get in. I then unplug the pad and take it out, but he sheets and covers are toasty at that point. Very helpful!

Edited to add that I can't sleep when my feet are hot, either!

This post was edited by sjerin on Wed, Oct 2, 13 at 12:01

I have Raynauds too and my feet get freezing cold. I always wear socks to bed in the winter. But the best sleep I get is when the room is very cold and I pile on the blankets. I HATE a hot bedroom.

Oh I know when the bed is cold, I can not sleep. I was thinking about putting my electric bed warmer on when I heard the we are in for a cold front this weekend. My thermostat is set on 74-75 year around...hate to be cold!

Glenda~ as soon as I get to a town that has a Bath and Body Works, I am going to get some of that sleep pillow spray....or maybe I can see if I can order it on line. Wonder if BB&Y has it...there is one in a town about 65 miles away.

Keep bouncing ideas...maybe one will be the answer....but I have not had Tylenol PM for 4 nights....so far, it doesn't seem to have made a difference and I would love to get off of them for good.....my little ole liver has worked overtime for far too long!!!!