I don't think he's a pervert, I think he's normal. I think she is normal. But they live in 21st century America, and should abide by the norms of the society in which they live. In 21st century America, it is not permitted.

I think it is ridiculous to deny the hormones of youth and demand abstinence. We humans are in our prime during these years, and to deny that we want sex during these years is silly. Throughout history we did not - we usually married and began our families. But our society today does not allow 19 yo men to date 14 or 15 yo girls. Ridiculous it may be, but that is how it is. Period.

I think you should sit them both down and tell them that she isn't allowed to start dating until she is 16, and until then, he is welcome to come over for family dinners if they want to continue their friendship...but no going out together alone until 16. That way, if he really does like her...he has the opportunity to see her and wait for her. If he is just after sex, he will get bored real quick waiting for her to turn 16.

I do question a 19 year old being interested in a 14 year old. It seems a little creepy to me, but maybe he is immature or she is mature for her age. When I was 14, I really liked a boy that was 18. We hung out for awhile and the amount of pressure he put on me to have sex was ridiculous. I had no intention of losing my virginity to this guy so I broke up with him.

If you say absolutely no seeing each other ever, you are right, if she really likes him she'll find a way to see him. If she really wants to sleep with him she'll find a way. If you are reasonable and allow them to be "friends" in your home, she is less likely to rebel and sneak behind your back. Hopefully you are having an open conversation with her about sex and why it's important to wait.

That's my two cents.

She will still be too young when she is 16 and he is 20 or 21. It's asking the impossible for two young people who are presumably romantically involved to remain celibate until she is 18! You yourself say that! What is the point of asking them to be "friends" if what they want to be is bf/gf? I just don't see how that's possible.

We all have stories to tell. Some of them worked out, others didn't. The point here is that it is illegal for a 19 yo man to date a 14-15 yo girl, regardless of their relative states of maturity or immaturity. Asking or telling them to be friends for 4 or 5 years is simply ridiculous, no matter how noble the young man thinks he is, no matter how well-raised the girl is. Hanging around with them on their dates? Absurd!

I also don't think it's just about sex. Though historically she may have been a married woman at her age, she is living in the here and now. Even if they remain in love and "technically" celibate for the next four years, it is still illegal. Is she going to give up her teen years for this guy? He won't be allowed to attend her homecoming and proms, and she is sure to tell someone, perhaps a friend or a coach, a youth leader, about this relationship, and he could very well go off to jail as a sex offender.

They will be isolating themselves socially, because his friends are all too old, and hers are too young. Are her friends' parents going to allow this guy to hang around with their kids? Heck no! Is he going to want to hang around with kids in their parents' basements? Whew! If he does, he IS a weirdo!

I have no idea why I find myself so invested in this, but I sure do! Orie, I hope it turns out well for your dtr.

Given a different set of circumstances, a 4 yr age difference is not a big deal. However, it can be a big deal with a boy who just turned 19 and a girl who is almost 15. We've got a guy who is in first year of college and gal who has 3 more years of high school.

I am an old codger now, but I still remember those days. It is an explosive sexual time. It is not against the law for a guy over 18 to date a girl under 18, but it is, in most states, against the law to have sex, and for very good reasons. Some dragging brakes should be applied until the girl is older, and by older, a better term would be "prepared for responsibility". It is my opinion that a young couple should not get engaged until they have the means to support themselves and any babies that may come their way.

The young man you describe seems nice enough and probably well intentioned, but I think you should err on the side of caution. Should they become pregnant before his schooling and hers are completed, it would be a disaster that lasts a lifetime.

At this point in your daughter's life, she may feel that "this is the one" and does not want him to get away. She may feel that if she is cut off from him for a few years, it will be too late because someone else will have captured him, and she will be heart broken. Meanwhile, she will not have given herself a chance to look at other options in the playing field. Playing the ogre parent, you'd say, "Get over it. You two are separated for now." However, I do not think this approach plays well. It is time to sit down with your daughter, and maybe the young man, too, and honestly state your concerns. That would be the time to lay down your rule (restrictions). Strike a bargain: If they cool it off until your daughter graduates from HS, you'll back off too. Until that time, an occasional supervised date will be permitted.

At that time in their lives, 3 years is a long time. If they remain true to each other over that time span, maybe the realtionship has staying power. This is a very trying time for both the child and parent. There are no exact answers. You are tippy toeing along a fine line between a disaster, long term happiness, or a daughter who blames you for her unhappy unmarried life. Bite the bullet, take a stand, and hope for happiness for all. Make sure that you convey the message that it is their future happiness that you desire for them.

I never had a boyfriend, never dated in high school. Many of my female friends had boyfriends two to four years older. Some, but not all, had sex. And a couple, yep, got pregnant. One gave her child for adoption. Another married the boyfrend, dropped out of school and moved away. I saw her at our 10 year high school reunion and she was divorced. A slippery slope, yes. Parents don't have much control over a 14 year old "in love." You can forbid her to date, ground her, but if she wants to see him she'll find ways. My own sister used to jump from her second floor bedroom window to go out with her "friends'> Her best friend was the class tramp , who dated members of a motorcycle gang. My parents absolutely could not control the situation. About the only thing you can do is talk with your daughter. see how much she is willing to reveal. And take her to a gynecologist for some birth control.

I just want to point out that it is NOT illegal for a 19 year old male to date a 14 year old female. Only when you talk sex or marriage do ages matter.
Personally, I would not allow a 14 year old to have one on one dates.

This is just my opinion, but...

I'd be the mean, old-fashioned, "you're-going-to-ruin-my-life" parent.

No 14- (almost-15 or otherwise) year-old girl of mine would be dating. She would not walk out my front door, get in a vehicle with a man (19 is legally a man and "17 will get you 20") and go "out" anywhere...unless I was in the front seat. Not to the movie; not to dinner; not to Church.

If a large group of her school friends were going to the movies, or skating, etc. I would be happy to drive a car-load of them there, drop them off, come back and check on them, and then pick them up and take them home.

Since you have already allowed this to happen, I have no clue as to how to stop it.

Is the man a family friend? Does his parents not tell him how this will be preceived and he can and will go to jail when the relationship takes its natural progression...unless she over 18, (not 17, almost 18).

And I do realize that even the best of kids, boys and girls, will sneak around and do things that would raise our hair. I know I did, and I was the timid, bookish, "good" girl. But, by watching their every move and circumventing every escape plan, we can sometimes minimize the damage.

Have you been on a college campus lately? Have you ever been to a ROTC party? Neither are a place for a 14-year old girl, (or 16, 17, 18, 19, 20.) I was nearly 30 the first time I attended one. Thankfully I had the good sense, maturity, and my own transportation to get out of there...fast.

infatuation, being noticed by a "college guy", is every sophmore's dream...

you said your dd has attended private school for 9 years...she's been sheltered for her entire life and now you have opened the door to sex, drugs, and rock and roll, as they used to say...

where are the boy's parents? do you suppose they'd like to see their ds charged with something that could ruin his entire life? try to get back into a decent college..they won't want you..try and get a decent job..they won't want you either...i'd call them and see IF they even KNOW he's dating/escorting/seeing what we used to call "jail*bait"...crude, but then this thing could turn on you...i wish you could see my dd's case-load...she's a msw for pregnant women/gils...

btw have you seen the stats for early sex and cancer?

My sister went through a similar experience 10 years ago. Her just turned 16 yr. old DD became interested in a 20 yr. old young man before her parents realized how old he was, since he only looked about 17. They had a talk with them both and told them he would be violating the law if there were any inappropriate relations between them, and they had no qualms about following through, since their daughter was still a minor.

The young man said he respected this and would not pursue an intimate relationship with her. They continued going out in groups, but had no private dates. My niece consistently reassured her mother that they weren't having relations. When she turned 18 they became boyfriend/girlfriend and dated for 4 more years before getting married. This year they are welcoming their first baby. All worked out well for them, even though they were never barred from seeing each other. He waited for her to 'become legal' before they began dating exclusively, because they knew the physical temptations would be too great if they saw each other outside of group dates.

They swear to this date that he never violated the trust given him while my niece was still a minor. They feel their relationship lasted because they socialized in a group for two years until they became a couple. I hope whatever decisions made about your DD's relationship will be the right ones for her

I think 14 year olds or 15 is a child. Children shouldn't be dating. You seem to be afraid she's gonna go around you and you can't stop her. I think you agree with the rest here, she's gonna have sex. So tell her NO to dating "and" put her on birth control. (injectible BC so it's a done deal for 3 months)

Take control. Be her parent not "just" her friend.

Just FYI, 18 is not the official age of consent in the U.S. Age of consent is a state-by-state thing, and the most common age is 16.

Even then, many states also have special provisions for people younger than the age of consent who are having sex with people who are only 3-4 years older. (I.e., the classic case of a girl dating a boy a few years older than she.)

So, in effect, there's one age below which it's never legal to have sex, one age above which consensual sex is always legal, and then an iffy place in between where it's only legal to have sex with people close to your own age.

The answer to getting control now is interspersed in all the replies here. First, you and your DH talk to your DD and tell her there will be NO one-on-one dating until she's 16 with anyone. Do it when everyone is in a conversational mode; not a confrontational mode. Tell her your concerns for her and for him.

For her it's probable heartbreak and possible pregnancy, all before it's necessary to even think about those things. For him, jail is a real possibility if pregnancy becomes an issue.

Talk to the young man. Let him know you do not object to him. Only to the situation and that he is always welcome in your home. Invite him to dinner. Invite him to the barbeque. Invite him on the family picnic. They are welcome to go to her school functions, not his. They can go in groups, but you or DH will be doing the transportation.

Your daughter needs a Mother, not someone to afraid to be a parent.

You know, you all are assuming that she is going to have sex. Guess what! Not everyone loses their virginity as teenagers. Some of us, I'm sure, waited until we were adults even though temptation was strong. I know it was important to me to wait until my wedding. If you expect a teen to have sex, they probably will because it is your expectation of them. A friend of mine hands out condoms freely to her teenage kids......it is her expectation that sex will be in the cards. So guess how sexually active they are? Their behaviour is supported.

This relationship may not last as the boy is an hour away when he is in school and he is likely to find some girlfriends in college. At this point, I would set limits and wait and see if their relationship stays strong.

I went on my first date with a 16 year old when I was 12. During my teens my dates were at least 4 and often more years older than myself. Some were quite a bit older. I didn't have sex until I was older than most of my close girlfriends. They lost their virginity by having awkward backseat sex with boys near their age who couldn't care less if they enjoyed it or got pregnant. I lost mine to an adult male who put me first in every way including making sure I was "safe".

This whole new trend to making age spread the difference between legal and illegal sex is insane. Zero tolerance carp. Girls mature faster than boys.I never had the desire to date some pimply faced 15 year old when I was fifteen. I had male friends my own age but they simply weren't boyfriend material.

Sure 19 year olds want to have sex. But so do fifteen year olds. Sex is either going to happen or not no matter what. I always laugh at all the parents who think curfews will keep their kids safe. Same parents don't realize the kids are having afternoon sex,drugs and rock and roll while the parents are at work.

So if you like the young man and you have taught your daughter to have self-respect and to have sex only for when she feels she is really ready than I say go ahead and let them date.

For what it's worth, sometimes young love does work out. My sister met her future husband when he was in eighth grade and she was in ninth. they dated briefly, broke up, she went off to college and met someone else, got engaged, broke up, then started seeing her otiginal hugh school boyfriend. They got married in 1983 and are still together. And my MIL met her future husband When she was 14 and he was 20. They were married just over 60 years, until he passed away.

I'm relieved to see the last two posts (from Wildchild and Jannie). This thread has been getting intense! I know that can happen when advise is requested, but if I were Orie I don't know what I'd be thinking right now. A question about a couple of movie dates elicited comments and accusations about everything from poor parenting to putting her daughter at risk for cancer. I know I'm in the minority here, but this sounds like an awful lot of overreacting to me.

I just finished reading an article in the Wall Street Journal (from March--I'm a little behind) about Leonard Lauder and his wife, who run Estee Lauder. He's three years older than she, and they started dating as teenagers. I'm guessing she was a young teenager, because at some point he taught her how to drive. Three years apart is not far from four years apart.

I honestly don't get what a big deal some of you think this is. When I was a teenager, all my friends were dating at 15. I can't imagine the rebellion that would have ensued if my parents had announced I couldn't date for another year. My friends were in and out of my house all the time, and my parents knew them well.

I eventually married a man who was a lot more than four years older than I. We were married 40 years.

Oh, well. Good luck, Orie.

Though the ages and circumstances vary by state, like it or not it's the law, and depending on the circumstances, prosecution could be at the discretion of the District Attorney even if the victim doesn't press charges.

I have a teen-aged daughter dating a young man in college - they are only 10 months apart in age but they are 2 grades apart.

My high school daughter dating a young man in college has not been good for either of them. He was immersing himself in all that college life had to offer and enjoying his college experience. Now he spends his time wanting to be with her instead. Same for my daughter - she transferred to a different high school last year and would be finding friendships and activities there, but instead she wants to be with him. The distance is hard. What is even more heartbreaking is that I'm afraid she will make her college choices based on where he is, not on the best fit for her.

There are other drawbacks to having a high school daughter dating a college boy. One is that college students have more access to alcohol and drugs. I know (boy, how I know) that high school students have access to drugs and alcohol, but in my experience (I have a college student as well) alcohol is a lot more a part of the college culture than high school.

Another drawback is that (in my experience) parents of college aged kids are understandably more hands off in parenting style. Having a son in college, I'm the same way. My daughter's boyfriend's parents have much the same values, goals, and ideas about rules that I do, but because he's in college their hands are more tied than mine are. It doesn't change my rules - I've made it clear to my daughter and her boyfriend that she has high school aged appropriate rules, but it is much more unpleasant to enforce curfew, letting your parents know where you are, asking permission to do things, etc. when the boyfriend (understandably) doesn't have those rules.

I would also pay close, close attention to the poster who said your daughter may be isolated from her peers if she continues this relationship. In our community a 14 year old girl dating a 19 year old boy would absolutely be isolated from many of the other 14 year old girls in our community. Particularly the ones from homes where the parents keep closer tabs on what their kids are doing and who they're with.

I started dating my husband when I was 16 and he was 19. I was in high school and he was in college, and it was no problem at all, we handled it just fine. So I used to would have found it judgmental to say don't let a high school girl date a college boy. But now that I'm going through it with my own daughter and we're having complications, I think the mothers who don't let their daughters date young men if there's much of an age difference are wise not to take chances.

I also don't agree with the argument that if you don't let them, they'll just sneak around. As parents we can use that argument for all sorts of things - we can furnish them alcohol in our homes so they won't drive drunk, etc. I have better success with my kids drawing the line in the sand and saying don't cross it. Yes, sometimes they sneak around. But sometimes the very inconvenience and knowing the consequences if they're caught is enough to deter them. And if it doesn't, there's still that little voice inside their head that reminds them that mom and dad think what they're doing is very, very wrong.

I agree with others that 14 years old is too young to date, except maybe go out in groups, and way, way too young to date a 19 year old. Even if she's mature and he's immature, even if it's a family friend, even if he's a nice guy.

I wish you the best with your daughter. It's so hard to know what to do, I wish they came with a manual at birth.

Stories about someone's great grandma getting married when they were 12 to a 24 year old and being happily married for 65 years mean nothing... this is another age an time.

In today's society (and that's where we are), 14 and 19 year olds are ages apart. 14 year olds are still children (or should be) and 19 year olds are adults. If the "gentleman" has no itention of it leading to a sexual relationship, then I would seriously question his mentality of wanting to hang out with a 14 year old of the opposite sex. It scares me either way. What exactly do they have in common? I'm not saying it can't or has never worked out.. just that chances of sat. rape and the realtiosnhip ending poorly are probably a lot higher.

And another thing, some kids actually do listen to their parents' rules; are we ruling that out for your daughter totally? Because if so, then yes, she may sneak out and see him if you tell her not to... but what makes you think that she won't be sneaking out and seeing him alone if your rule is to only allow them to date in your house?

You may not be able to fully control what she does either way... just don't think your half-way rules are going to help any. You can control what your rules are and believe it or not, some kids may respect your rules especially if you have the faith in her that she will obey them.... Don't sell your daughter short... kids live up to the expecations (or lack of them) that parents have for them. Trust that she will obey your rules and tell her you will trust her to.

Carla phrased it a lot better than I did, I should have just waited and dittoed her post.

Plus, another huge difference between kids today and great-grandma's day in time is that the educational needs are a lot different. A 14 year old girl in grandma's day was only a few years away from being able to reasonably marry a young man who would be able to support her. A 14 year old girl today has all of high school, at least 4 years of college and maybe some grad school to get through. College admissions are way, way more competitive than when I was a teenager. 14 year old girls today need to be making sure they get their extra curricular activities, community service, and coursework done.

Now, more than ever, teens need their parents to set limits for them and help keep them focused on growing into responsible adults.

I've been gone all day. Wow, maybe this should've been in the Hot Topics!! Just kidding! I've enjoyed reading each and everyone of your posts and appreciate all of them and can see how everyone has something important to contribute to me. I thank all of you and noone has hurt my feelings.

I do want to say that I have a wonderful dd. She is an A student and an athlete (at the Duke Residential Soccer Camp right now, actually). She's quite mature for her "almost" 15. She is a Christian and has incredible values. I think we have done a good job with her. I am actually a very strict parent, believe it or not, and she reminds me of this every day since most of her friend's parents are more permissive than I am. I do not try to be her friend but not her enemy either. I want to make sure I keep her talking to me and not shut me out. I'm trying to avoid what happened between my mom and I. Everything was negative and every thought was that I was going to do something bad.... do drugs or have sex. I got very sick and tired of this. It never changed and a wall came up and was there for many years. Although I snuck around to do things on the sly, I am proud to say that I remained a virgin until the week before I got married at age 24! Yes, I snuck around, saw my boyfriend when I wanted and yet... no sex. Go figure. So, it may be a rare thing but you can have will power! I was also scared to death of getting pregnant.

She is now a 10th grader. Almost all her friends are dating. My dd is not in a hurry to date. She's actually had many opportunities to "go out", as teens call it today, but has turned them down. She won't date just for the sake of dating a boy. She just went to Prom (at her school 9th, 10th and 11th graders are invited) and she went alone although she was asked by 2 different young men. She just didn't want to accept a date from someone just for the sake of having a date to go with. I respected her for this. She's not boy-crazy.

She met this 19 yr.old young man at her school. They both attended the same Christian school for a few years and he graduated last year. That's how they met. I believe she's liked him for some time and they've been communicating, mostly through texts and emails for some time. They don't travel in the same groups so being together never really happened except for school situations. I would allow her to "date" boys her age now, as dating today consists mostly of hanging out at home watching movies, playing Rock Band, having small get-togethers or going to the movies, either in groups or being dropped off and picked up. She does not have wild friends. Her close circle of friends are good kids, mostly raised in Christian homes (I know this doesn't mean much but it's a start). These kids don't drink, smoke or do drugs and are not trouble makers PLUS we parents keep close eyes on them. They don't have the chance to in trouble. At least, not yet! They are also never left alone except in the case of movie theatres where most of us parents just hang around outside or go to dinner nearby until it's time to pick up. ALONE doesn't exist! I am not a bad parent and would never put her in a situation where she could get in trouble. I do believe she needs a little freedom, though, just a bit!

I/we've discussed many issues with her regarding dating a 19 yr. old and he also knows how we feel about this. I can't say I have a problem with his age. In our culture, Cuban, it is acceptable to date older young men. My mom dated my dad when she was 13 and he was 20. I know things were different. In fact, it's preferred mostly because the 15 yr. old girls are more mature than a 15 yr. old boy. My dd seems to confirm this as when I tell her to find someone her age to hang out with, she says "Mom, they are immature, have nothing to say, no conversation and giggle together more than the girls do." So, dating older, though more complicated, not as big an issue. The # is just a # BUT, I do understand everyone's concern. The big thing is SEX. She can have sex with someone her age and it's not a crime but with this boy, it would be. That's the whole problem. He's a good kid. I don't question his morals or beliefs as he's been raised a lot like my dd. Again, all of us have expressed the same concern... SEX!!! I don't know if she'll have sex before marriage. I certainly hope not. It's what I've tried to teach her. Of course, I can control things for now. IF, she were to date this young man, there would be NO alone time, he will NOT be allowed to drive her anywhere, visits would be at our home and not his parents and he would be spending a lot of time with us. We will sit with his parents and discuss all this. He also has very little free time (which is good) and she has very little free time (which is good). I am a snooping parent. I read all texts, emails and FB posts (I have her password). I am on top of stuff but this one is not easy. Saying NO and just putting my foot down is hard simply because I am assuming sex will happen. She is now a 10th grader. She'll be attending public school for the first time this Fall. Some major stuff happens in the bathrooms of this and most public schools. My neighbors fill me in! I don't want her to fall for just anyone there whose morals are not like ours. At least I know this young man has had a decent upbringing and his beliefs are the same as ours. This is where my dilemma comes in. He's too old for her because SEX would be a crime. Other than that, he's an awesome guy. Any other jerk her age can come along and bamboozle her and sex might happen too. It's horrible to assume that they'll have sex but I do understand the hormones! I guess the only way to avoid this is to not allow them alone time.... just as if he were any other teenage boy.

Our plan is to sit with him, my dd and his parents. Hopefully we can talk about all our concerns, explain the relationship would be on our terms, explain the consequences of sex (although they already know). I know it's all well intentioned and it can all go to pot but the way I see it is to say "OK on our terms" and hope he hates it and goes his merry way or "No" and then hope they don't sneak around. Like I said, she's 15 and I cannot keep her secluded in her room. Do I prefer him over some idiot she may meet her age... well, yes. BUT... I know! Isn't it horrible how we all assume sex will happen at all costs? Guess it's human nature!

I have no idea what is going to happen. My dh and I have talked about it in detail today since she's gone for a few days. We have not come to a decision yet but are trying to really see how to go about this. We would like to sit everyone down and discuss this. I have brought this up to many people in my circle of friends. It is amazing the range of advice I've received, got all kinds of answers just like you all had.

I will keep you guys posted. Pray for our family please!!!!! This isn't an easy one. Thanks again. I keep going back to read all your posts to make sure I haven't missed anything.

It's NOT just about sex... a 19 year old guy wanting a relationship with a 14 year old is weird, very weird. I don't care if he's the same religion; get over that; he's weird!

Have you considered the reputation she will get for having a boyfriend that old? Plus, you may be cutting her out of high school experiences with her own friends, double dates, giggles about cute guys taking to her, etc... She may kind of become an outcast and sort of miss the whole high school experience by "dating" someone so much older.

And lastly, if you think they can't do stuff in movie theaters or even in your own home, you're wrong, very wrong.

Just because they are "Christians" does not mean they won't have sex. A pastor's DD in a small town near here got pregnant but she did not know who the father was, she told her parents it could be any one of 4 guys. She kept the baby and DNA testing was done to determine which guy had to pay child support.

Carla, I really don't understand why you feel it is so weird for a 19 year old to like a younger girl. We are talking only a 4 year difference here. They have been friends for years. Should their friendship really have to stop just because ORIE'S DD is now 14-15? I could understand and be concerned say if the man was over 25 but really, they are both still kids. Sex may not even be an issue here, they may just be enjoying each other's company.

Orie's DD still will have plenty of time to enjoy her classmates and do things with them. He is away at college. It isn't as if she is engaged, she is free to date other boys her own age if she chooses. You make it sound like she will be a social outcast. That doesn't have to be the case at all.

Things will work out in the end, and perhaps the best thing to do would be not to make to big a deal of this issue at this stage. Have a family talk and wait and see what happens from there.

She's 14; he's 19...that's 5 years...let's not candy coat it unless we know when his birthday is too(which could be next month).

Anyway, a 19 year old boy has certain interests....aside from the violent video games and interest in sex that younger guys may also have, he can go and drive anywhere he wants (road trip!), he may be thinking about getting married, working, preparing for a real career, even trying to get into bars and drinking on weekends. He could even be living on his own, he has no curfew, some of his friends may already be married and/or have kids....

...a 14 year old girl's interests generally include cheerleading practice, justin bieber, babysitting, first dates, and learning how to apply makeup. Unless Ms. 14 year old is preparing to get married in the next couple years, has a Halo game addiction, and/or a really good fake id for gettting into bars, I'm not seeing a lot in common with the two... Oh wait, possibly the 19 year old boy really does likes singing high school cheers, teepeeing someone's house, and really enjoys having his mom drive him to the mall to meet up with "the girls"... He may like having to be in bed by 10:00, 9:00 during the week. The range of interests in these two age groups with different sexes should be huge...so much so that a "friend only" relationship would be hard to comprehend....

If he doesn't have romantic feeling for her and just really wants to hang out as a friend, he's probably a little "off". Would you want to hang out with a 14 year old girl when you were a 19?

Carla is right--there's no real common ground for a 19 year old and a 14 year old. You can say age is just a number all you want, but the reality is that the extreme difference in the stage of life at these 2 ages is vast. And it does raise a lot of questions to hear that a 19 year old would have any interest in a young child. It's not really normal in most cases.

As to the religious and only letting them go to the movies alone issues? As a teacher, I can tell you--although you really won't want to hear this--that the girls who end up preg. in their teens are so often those raised by religious families. So often, the parents somehow think that raising a child in church is some sort of innoculation against pregnancy--when in reality, those girls are some of the ones who are the most vulnerable, for a lot of reasons. Often, the parents 'assume' that the religious training is protective, often the parents neglect their children's sexual education. The children themselves, are often very immature about the ways of the world. Sometimes, if the parents are very involved in church, they feel a little abandoned (you'd be surprised how often this happens) and they fall for the first guy who acts as if he's putting them on a pedestle.

Now, about letting them go to the movies alone? do you KNOW how many girls get pregnant at the movies? If I were going to let a young teen spend time alone with a guy, the absolute LAST place I'd let them go would be to the movie theater. Let them go out to lunch at a restaurant, or miniature golfing, or to play tennis. But a movie theater? C'mon. At the very least, if they're going to the movies, they're already engaged in heavy petting--that's what kids do there.

You're obviously a loving mother and care about your daughter. But I honestly think you're letting your religious hopes get in the way of seeing the world as it is. Also--may I ask a question? Why would you consider switching your child from religious to public school at tihs point in time? I know that's not the situation we're discussing, but falling once more on my teaching experience, I'm very sorry to say, I've never seen a situation where that worked out well. In our area, the public schools are far more academically advanced than most private ones, so for starters, the students are way behind scholastically if they come from private schools. There are other areas of the country where that's not the case, of course--private schools in some places are the better academic choice. In that case, you run the risk that she's going to be bored AND wasting the last couple of her high school years. Then there's the fact that the rules and structure are different. That eats kids up--the ones who come to public school midway through high school are generally totally unprepared to get along in an environment where they have that kind of freedom. Most go wild in one way or another--enjoying their freedom and neglecting their studies. Some become clothes (sexy clothes, at that)/make-up/hair crazy and spend all their time primping now that they don't have to wear a demure uniform. Others become totally boy-crazy. Others find other distractions, some are so overwhelmed they retreat into a shell and are unable to function in this new world. but as I say, in all my years of teaching, I've not seen a single case where changing a child from private to public school was a roaring success.

If the issue is financial, have you considered going to the principal of the private school and see if there isn't some way you can keep her there to finish her high school education with her friends, in an atomosphere she's comfortable with. Many schools, if the student has attended for many years, will find a way to help them stay on till graduation. Sometimes, the parents can pitch in and help with the janitorial or office duties to help defray costs, sometimes, there are scholarships to help. I'd look into it, though.

Orie, that sounds very sensible.

To later posters, Orie didn't say anything about thinking that her daughter won't have sex because she's a Christian. She says it may be a start. Sure, it's not with everyone, and it's not if the kids are only nominally Christian because that's what their parents believe, but it definitely was important in the group I belonged to when I was her daughter's age. We were serious about our faith, and serious about not having sex before marriage. Didn't work out that way for everyone, of course, but I'll bet the average age when we *did* have sex was higher than with our peers. (Sure seemed so at the time, when everyone around me was having sex.)

Carla, I think everyone understands that you see something strange about a 19-year-old guy who's interested in a 14-year-old girl. I don't. Lots of people here have said they don't, either. Not that they don't see problems - everyone sees problems, including Orie. That's why she posted here. But I think you have to accept that many people don't see anything strange about him being attracted to her. (And, btw, my 8-year-old niece and her friends think Justin Bieber is for babies.:)

And I think Orie fully understands that sex can happen anywhere, and she can't prevent it. She's just trying to do her best to protect her daughter without alienating her.

Azzalea I've never seen anyone have sex at a movie. I have to admit I don't go to many movies, but I sure must have been going to the wrong shows!

I've never seen anyone have sex at an indoor movie either and I consider myself pretty observant. LOL Drive-in movies certainly but never in a regular theater. There is simply no way to have discreet sex in a movie seat.

Orie you sound like an excellent,caring parent to me. I'm pretty sure your DD reflects her upbringing. Those who think their kids are being kept in check with arbitrary rules like not dating until a certain age or unrealistic curfews have their heads in the sand. The sneakiest, most untrustworthy friends my own kids had were those with similar restrictions.
I could go back and say the same about my own friends when I was a teen. They just waited until they were at school roll their skirts, overcompensate with heavy make-up and work too hard at being accepted. They were the ones who later got into trouble not having the self-esteem or social skills to protect themselves from "bad" influences.

I was SO sophisticated and disinterested in guys my own age during high school that I missed out on the whole scene! (What I was was insecure.)

I fancied myself 'in love' with a young man four years older, the son of family friends. I met him on vacation when I was 15. We corresponded. I saw him again at 16, which fueled my certainty that he was 'the one'. How could gawky high school BOYS compare? No, no, I 'saved myself' for what was sure to be marriage to my Dream Man. (This also eliminated any need for me to plan college, a career, or make future life decisions; I would become a Bride, a Wife...a Mother!)

GAH! Wanna fwow up yet?

Fortunately (or not LOL) I never had sex with this guy. By 17 I'd realized HE was immature -- too late for me to recapture my HS years. He did ask to marry me when I was 20. That wasn't going to happen because I was too young, but more because he had never quite 'grown up'. He remains dear to my heart -- a handsome, beautiful charmer. He's now a Senior, and I know who shouldered all the responsibility in his marriage: his loving wife.

Orie, encourage your DD to fully engage in HER life, as a young teen, with others her age. They are NOT a 'good fit' now, and her plans for the future should not revolve around this guy. HE should also be living HIS college life.

From the mother of a 19 year old going to college, who is a "good boy"/man of God, man of values..we shouldn't judge the young man in question too harshly. Finding a mate who has not been to bed with several boys in this day and age is near impossible. Now I know there are many of you who think this is standard behavior but there is a population in the USA who disagree with you and who are looking for mates for their sons and daughters who are of good character, with out disease, and who will marry once for life. You almost have to rob the cradle to find a girl/boy worth having any more, from my sons vantage point.

Our girls could not date anyone until they were sixteen.
If it were my daughter I would tell her she could go out with him (or anyone else) when she turned sixteen but not until.

IMHO, I think so far the dates that they have gone on have been age appropriate. I think limiting it to public venues will allow for them to be together, but monitored. If she's a mature 14 year old and he's a good guy, I believe there's nothing wrong with extremely monitored dating and she hopefully won't feel the need to rebel. Maybe he'll get tired of dating her because she is so young and has restrictions. Maybe they'll stick it out and one day get married. ; D

Blessings,
Haley

When I was 14, the girls our age who dated high school boys and older were not included in group activities - these girls just seemed so much more advanced than the rest of us and we had nothing in common. Thinking back, these girls missed out on a lot.

You only get your youth once. There's a lifetime to date grown men.

Oh gosh, religion has very little to do with anything here, ha! It was just a small part of something they do have in common but it doesn't mean anything more than that. I also was raised in a church where the holiest of kids were the worse ones so I'm no fool there! BTW, the age difference is 4 yrs., he just turned 19 and she's about to turn 15, not that it matters much.

I wonder the ages of most of you. How many of you are parents of 15 yr. old girls? My dd and her friends do not spend time learning how to put make up on. She's perfected it already! Get out a little and see what a 15 yr. old girl looks like these days. A fifteen yr. old girl today is very grown up, although, I will say some more than others. Maybe it's the fact that she's an only child or that she went to a private school all her life, I don't know. She's not a little girl in any way. High School girls of today are not the High School girls of yesterday or even 15 yrs. ago. My goodness, she's already putting her college portfolio together and buffing it up, checking out Universities and looking into where her interests lie the most for future studies and where she could possibly get a soccer scholarship from. This is not a silly, giggling, little girl. Yes, she enjoys spending time with her friends and going to concerts, movies, etc... She has a lot in common with her school friends but when it comes to boys... well, those seem to be the immature ones! I spend a lot of time sitting in the school parking lot and watching. The boys are the goof offs, rough-housing, being silly. The girls are definitely more grown up. I actually have laughed at this. It's confirmed when you see that her friends don't want to date boys their own age. The boys are afraid to even approach the girls. They have no conversation, no interests. The boys still play video games, carouse, and stand and watch the girls but have nothing to say. At least this has been the case here. Oh, and yes, they DO date at 15. It's a very controlled date but nevertheless, they DO date. I'm not saying every 15 yr. old is like this. Some have been kept very sheltered. One of her soccer friends who is 15 looks 10 and knows nothing about anything. Almost too sheltered. Any guy can tell her a story or two! There is a happy medium to all this.

I can only talk about her school since it's all I know but there have been many senior boys that have wanted to date a freshman girl. The boys have been mocked by some of their own because, well, you just don't date a freshie. Obviously, some older boys have found some freshie girls interesting to be with. I don't think it's so hard to imagine there could be an attraction or interest. Trust me. I do know hormones so, yes, you are all right in thinking about it being sexual. Yes, it could be, probably is...

We have chosen to pull her out of private school into public school because the public schools have more to offer her in getting ready for college. There are more Honors and AP courses, the ability for online studies is there, the extracurriculars are more and so are the electives. Her private school, although excellent, has not met our satisfaction in the High School department. There seems to be a bit of a 'mass exodus' once you enter High School there and it's because there's a lot that is lacking in preparing these kids for college. There are other better private schools but we are not willing to pay $16,0000 a yr. to have her in one. I know!! Yikes!! We'd rather save that $$$ for college!

Like I said, hopefully we can all sit soon and discuss this. It'll go one way or another. Oh, if they do end up dating, he'll be dating like a 15 yr. old would date, not a 19 yr. old. I, personally, think it won't last.

Wildchild, you make me laugh! I was in a private school all my life. Uniforms that had to come to an inch below the knee. I remember we would staple the hem up to make them shorter and we'd roll up the sleeves and roll down our ugly green knee high socks.... just to have the Principal do a morning check and rip everything back to where it should've been! Oh how I hated that!

What you're doing as a mother sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Think of the things that you could be doing besides escorting and keeping them in check.

Me personally I don't think the age difference is too great but the mere fact that you're checking up on them tells me that you think there's something wrong in the first place. And if you don't then as said above they'll find a way to be intimate, and you're probably just delaying it, not stopping it.

You know your daughter, do as you feel.

I wonder the ages of most of you. How many of you are parents of 15 yr. old girls? My dd and her friends do not spend time learning how to put make up on. She's perfected it already! Get out a little and see what a 15 yr. old girl looks like these days. A fifteen yr. old girl today is very grown up, although, I will say some more than others

I am not the parent of a 15 year old girl, but my daughter is a 17 year old rising senior in high school, and my son is a 20 year old senior in college. I agree with you that in some ways 15 year old girls less sheltered and more is expected of then now, certainly as far as college prep goes.

But I am also the parent of a college boy, and exposed to many college aged boys. In my experience, which may be different than yours, there is generally a big difference between kids who go off to college and kids who are still in high school. I didn't really realize quite how big until my own high school daughter started dating a college boy. And teachers typically describe my daughter as very mature.

I recently watched a video by a Harvard researcher on a subject germane to this discussion. She said that we tend to think of today's teenagers, particularly gifted or intelligent teenagers as mature and able to make rational decisions because they can do calculus and learn chemistry so easily, etc. But their brains are not fully connected with their frontal cortex, therefore their risk centers are not fully developed yet.

Teenagers today can seem so very rational, intelligent, mature, and then make just jaw-dropping poor decisions.

However, you are the one who knows your daughter best and knows this young man. In the end, there's more than one path to good parenting. Many of us take different roads but wind up achieving the same goal - responsible, well-adjusted, happy young adults.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best.

Well, I had an older boyfriend when I was 14. My mom was secretary of our church my entire life and I was raised to marry as a virgin. I was pressured into having sex with him. He was relentless. ONE TIME and I got pregnant. I married him with a forged birth certificate and Aimee was born two months after I turned 15.

I raised my now 40 year old (beautiful) daughter, not my parents. That said, my marriage lasted 5 long years. When my DD was a teen, I made sure the rules in my home protected her, unlike my own parent's rules. I wish I would have had the financial stability I had raising my two sons, many years later.

Just saying that sex happens and babies happen. Just because he is older than she is doesn't mean he is ready to take on a family. I vote 'no dating at 14'. Period. Been there, done that. I wish my parents had been thinking.

Orie I didn't go to private school but our principal would measure the space between the the hem of our skirts and the knees with a yardstick. I think the limit was 2" above the kneecap. LOL

Orie, Just in case you were wondering...I have a teenager and another child...both in private schools... I also have 2 teenage nieces that I am very close to. I'm not totally ignorant as to what the kids this age are going through now.

I may have exagerated some stuff to get my point across... of course 14, oh wait 15 year olds, don't like Justin Bieber! It was a joke which I knew because I have a kid that age.... geesh.... And, glad your daughter has already perfected makeup at 14! I really don't see that around here. Plus, I was probably in my 20's until I actually got it right. Kudos to her...

But, great makeup or not, if she didn't have the option of dating a 19 year old, I think she may find those goofy immature boys her own age a little more attractive. Seriously...

You can market it as maturity in her... but from what I see with the kids around here, it's not the mature or smart girls who date the older guys, it's the outcasts or the sluts... I'm not saying that's your daughter, but that may very well be how it will look. You really need to consider that and her getting a reputation from it. We have the same freshman/senior thing...and yeah, it can be a little odd, but those two groups are still both in high school....big, big difference than your situation...

I think you want to take the easy way out and will more or less find reasons to support your way of doing that. I see you making excuses... she's "almost 15" "she's real mature" "he's a saint". And, "I wonder the age of most of you" --Really, or do you just wonder the age of the people who don't agree with you? (By the way, I'm not 35 as my name may suggest - I wish!).

Listen to your husband.

Orie, I wonder if your husband's feelings in this matter could be colored a bit by the fact that this is his "little girl's" first involvement with a boy. This could be further intensified by her only-child status.

It sounds as though you've this a lot of careful and caring thought, and I'm confident you'll make the best decision you can with the information you have. No matter what the outcome, all we can do is our best.

I have 12 and 14 year old dd's and a 19 year old son. Not from the big city but close enough to be exposed in every way. Friendships, sports, academics etc. I graduated from a huge school. My almost 15 year old wouldn't even consider dating a 19 year old or anyone for that matter. She does see guys at friends homes, often randomly at the theater and other activities. She is just starting to wear some makeup, her friends a bit more so. Her friends are very athletic so makeup is minimal. (Nothing like mascara running down the face during a game) She is one of the fortunate girls in this country who's class is run by the good kids. These honor roll girls have two original parents, most are god loving, involved and have rules. (no problem with single parents, this just happens to be her friends situation) I'm talking about a dozen girls. They are right now just thinking about dating. In order to maintain some happy medium, the alternatives to the hormones are group gatherings at the movies, sport events, bowling, dances, bonfires at homes, swimming, and church youth activities which usually involve group sports, lazer tag, home movies and motivational speaking(ers). Until she turns 16 she's stuck with that. I don't see any reason for her or her friends to be dating 19 years olds. Sure they can talk, have some laughs but that's all.
I have no doubt that high school/college relationships can grow and be wonderful but I feel my dd would benefit as a single girl, having the freedom to run with her friends unencumbered until she is mature enough to handle the ups as well as the downs that come with commitments. Strange as it sounds they , so far, have liked having our rules.

Daisyinga makes a truly valid point.

I have a 16 year old son and I can vouch for the fact that
their brains are not fully connected with their frontal cortex.

In fact, I don't think their brains are "fully" connected to anything.

I don't really have any advice, what I feel has been stated quite eloquently above by several posters. i just wanted to say that i am impressed with the thoughtful responses by many of you and by Orie. It's a tough situation, that's for sure. I know what I would do, but these young people have minds of their own and any of our best laid plans can be thwarted by them. Good luck to you.

I have a daughter who is now 27...when she was a teenager she snuck around (at 16 with a 21 yo "boy") and I had to play peacekeeper with her and her father. I did not approve, but it was hard to know what to do after they had already started dating.
They eventually broke up, but not before her and her fathers relationship was scarred forever.

Group dating can be a good start. If she or he has good friends with the same set of values - accountability to one another can be just as powerful as peer pressure.

Have your husband sit down with him and have a heart-to-heart, man-to-man, father-to-boy talk. If your husband presents his talk just right, the young man will trust, respect and fear the father. (as he should)

Obviously, Orie didn't want our opinion unless it
was the same as hers.

I guess I didn't realize that if a 14 year old - oh, wait
she's 15 - has perfected putting on her make-up she is
wise, mature and just about set for everything.

You keep answering your own questions, I think, and
somehow you want her to do this - but you think we should
all agree.

Sorry - you can just delete this - but 19 year old
college "men" are too old to be dating 14 year olds - oops,
sorry, almost 15 year olds. "Only 4 years" you say -
at that age, it might as well be many more.

The title of your post should maybe be: Teenage Dating
Advice Needed - Only If You Agree With Me!

One thing some posters may be overlooking is Orie's statement that in her family it is culturally acceptable for younger girls to date older young men. I have a friend whose nieces are from a similar culture, and her nieces were allowed to date college-aged young men when they were in the lower high school grades. Her nieces were very nice, well-mannered girls from a privileged, religious, private school background.

This cultural difference may be one of the reasons Orie doesn't feel the same as most of the posters do.

molly109- I never said I was going to follow anyone's advice. I wanted to get advice or thoughts on what everyone else thought of this. It never meant that whatever you say is what I'm going to do. It is something we have to look into and I know it's not completely right but I'm not sure it is completely wrong either. For you to assume that what any of you say is going to be 'the law' for me, well, you are wrong. It's interesting to hear what you all have to say. If a discussion ensues, well, that's ok, too, since I did ask. We've all been civilized. I don't expect anyone here to ever take any of my advice completely to heart. Every situation and person's involved is different. Especially since we don't really know each other other than what we post here. This place is just another sounding board, another place to hear what others may have to say but not to blindly jump into anyone's suggestions. Personally, I have seen a lot of good advice in everyone's post. The only thing I have not agreed with is that their relationship, whatever it ends up being, has to end in SEX. Mine never did even though I snuck around. I had more willpower than my mom thought I had! I do agree that caution is a must... I'm not stupid either!

I hope you never ask for advice here and take it to heart. Most of the time, everyone means well and has good advice... as in this situation. I thank all of you for whatever input you gave and know that I have read each one many, many times. It's always good to come to a place where we can all share and not condemn or criticize. Thanks again, guys. Orie

Sorry Orie - when I read "Teenage Dating Advice Needed",
I assumed you wanted advice.

I didn't realize that you only wanted opinions that were
the same as yours.

And, FWIW - if I asked for ADVICE, I certainly would
take it to heart - why else would I ask?