Physically, you are both ready to have sex, if that's what you're talking about. But emotionally, you seem a long way off. If you are not close enough to talk openly with your girlfriend about it and play "games" instead, do you really think you are close enough to have sex? You seem to have a closer and more emotional attachment to the mom (I don't mean in a sexual way of course) and may be imagining some of that closeness is in your relationship with the daughter, when in fact it may not be.

You may also be getting mixed messages from yourself as well as from Toria. Do you want to have sex with Toria because of hormones, or because you love her? Are you sure SHE is ready for it? Would she be hurt if you broke up afterwards? Either way, you need to think about this: as you know, sex can lead to pregnancy no matter how careful you are. The risk may be small, but are you willing to take even a small risk of seeing Toria faced with an abortion, giving a baby up for adoption or being a teenage mother who will face great difficulties trying to raise a baby? And once you've had sex once, will you continue taking that risk, knowing that the chances increase each time that Toria could be faced with three devastating choices? When you truly love someone, you would never take even a small risk of seeing them get hurt, especially if the goal is only for your physical pleasure.

The only advice I can give you is don't have sex unless you and your partner are in a postion to have, love, support and care for a baby, together. At 16 and 17, you know that you are both several years away from that.

Work with the facts mostly. That can give you a bare-bones outline of what the situation is. Work hard to avoid interpreting the motives or thoughts of the others. The only one you _really_ know potentially is yourself and your views.

I think it is unusual for a parental adult to form that close a friendship with their child's (adolescent, but still minor and not legally an adult) boyfriend or girlfriend for that matter. If her mother is having deep conversations and sharing her personal views with you, that can be inappropriate and it ignores or disregards all kinds of normal/healthy social boundaries. There are many reasons a person might not act within social 'norms.' Some of these are beyond a person's control (Asperger's syndrome, or some personality orientations can result in a trait people have which causes them to not be socially adept with their peers or in a way which is 'normal'). That she does this with you may not have anything to do with personal feelings, or desires she has.

Sometimes people who are in the role of 'host' or 'hostess' will insist on giving up personal beds for the use of overnight guests. That can be normal. It can also be the case that there is confusion of boundaries which extends beyond the conversations and has moved into the realm of personal feelings on her mother's part. It is impossible to say or to know because the only one who can know is her mother, and she has acted in a way which suggests she may not be clear in her own view (about normal boundaries and why they exist, and how to set them up and maintain them for everyone's benefit, etc.).

About your gf, there seems to be some confusion about what she 'really' wants or what she is 'really' interested in; in terms of further exploring your shared relationship and possible physical expressions? If you want clarity you can ask her direct questions like 'I am confused when you (say what it is she does or says that is unclear to you), and I need you to tell me how you would like me to respond.' Sponteneity is a bad thing in this kind of matter. The consequences of most physical expressions can involve viral infections which are chronic (types of herpes), warts can also be transmitted inadvertently and through activities which are not viewed as 'real' intercourse.

By asking her you can get a feel for whether she, or you for that matter are ready. Absently acting on feelings simply because of having them is something that can be done. Humans do have the capacity to think before acting though and it's worthwhile to do so usually. It's a benefit of eons of evolution. Asking can give you clarity about her feelings, and what she wants or thinks she wants. People who have limited or no experience in these matters (and teenagers are limited in that they haven't had much time at all to be able to develop both adult maturity and good experience) may not reasonably be able to know what they want. They may not be clear on their own feelings. A good test for whether to proceed or not is if you (and she) are supportive enough of each other that either of you can and would stop if the other (at _any_ time in the proceedings) expressed the need to stop. Being able to do that without any hard feelings or resentment is more of a test of healthy advanced adult maturity.

you can get clarity about what 'further' is to her, and maintain good ongoing open communication with her

P.S. You might have to be the one to set boundaries with her mother if you find that her 'closeness' feels uncomfortable in any way to you. Then you can stop the deep personal conversations or conversations about her daughter. Her daughter is your girl friend, and she is entitled (as are you) to have a personal relationship. Her mother is entitled (as are parents everywhere) to access to enough candid information that they can feel like they are able to protect their child's safety. There is a balance between these. Her mother is still responsible for her, legally. That is a serious responsibility, being responsible for someone else's health and well-being and safety. She can decide not to let her 16 year old adolescent child travel alone to see you; but it could be for any number of sound reasons and not just because of the 'relationship issues' or related fears.

P.P.S. Social naivety can come across as very endearing. People who display this trait tend to be overwhelmingly candid and more or less incapable of lying. This can be very appealing and causes people who have this trait to appear relatively 'unspoiled' and 'uncomplicated.' This is worth mentioning because it sounds like her mother might display this trait (people who do often are not aware of normal social boundaries). Her daughter might have it too. If her daughter does, then she needs more parental protection than 'normal' too. People who are more socially aware and sophisticated will often exploit people who are naive in this area. Your gf might make a great longterm and life partner for you. Life is long, and a couple years (anything less than a decade really) is nothing by comparasin. Give yourselves time because life is not a race and even if it were it would _not_ favour sprinters.

andrew,

There's something wrong with your GF's mother.

Parents should not develop a "close, personal, spiritual" relationship with a boy or girl their child is dating. That's inappropriate.

WEIRD MOM.

well ill keep this pretty simple, i was 16 when i lost my virginity, ill tell ya its not everything that you think it is. you will probably enjoy it more than she will. i don't think anyone at your age is ready for sex and the responsibility that comes with it, im not talking just about babies and all that but also what it is going to mean for your gf emotionally. frankly if you have to go on the internet to get opinions and you cant talk to her about this than i don't think that this is a step in your relationship you should be taking. enjoy being a teen while you can and leave the sex to the adults.
nadine

Others may see the mother as weird for talking to you but I guess you should talk to other guys who are totally not accepted by the girlfriends parents~they'd probably die if they talked to them! (I have a friend who's mother has hated her boyfriend since they started dating 4 years ago and it's driven a huge wedge in the mother/daughter relationship). I kind of think it's nice that she likes you and actually talks to you about her daughter and things. It shows trust in you and other good qualities. We don't personally know this woman. Maybe this is just her nature with everyone. Some people can get close to others very quickly and others can't.

Also, you do need to talk to your girlfriend. You really can't go on the Internet and ask strangers about your life and if you should have sex or not. That's not our choice. The best thing anyone can do in a relationship is actually talk things out and get things out in the open. Hiding them doesn't help the relationship at all. Many relationships (not necessarily your type but any in life), be it a marriage, friendship, a relative, fail because people don't talk. They just bottle everything up and it causes problems. Talk to her and see how she's thinking.

Good luck.

~Leslie~