Taller than about 42" is borrowing trouble. Warping occurs. YOu'd be better off planning on breaking that up into 2 doors and making it look proportionate and intentional. Since you're going custom, I'd discuss this with your cabinet maker. Sometimes KDs live in "design world" and many things in "design world" can conflict with "real world". Any kitchen as custom as yours needs to be an ongoing joint effort between a cabinet maker and KD.

The problem with taller doors is the likelihood that they'll warp. To counteract that, you can step up the thickness of the rails & stiles. Of course, that's going to be a significant upcharge every which way--for material, for heavier duty hinges and beefier casework to support the added weight plus extra labor, tool costs....

I also have to say that the fridge wall is a little overwhelming. It's fortress like in it's massiveness. It needs more height/depth variation in it to avoid that look. Maybe glass in some uppers as well.

I was afraid beyond 42'' was prone to warping. We live in a humid to dry atmosphere, so it is bound to happen.

The KD is employed by the cabinet maker. It is I who is causing the conflict, I think!

How does this look? The punched tin doors are 42''.

OK,

Maybe I'm missing something, but her 52" doors will just be rails and stiles and tin. What would warp? The actual rails? My pantry bottom door is 54" (I'm guessing- must be coming close to the end of our renos- 1st time a measuring tape wasn't close by!), and it's fine. Lots of people have pantry doors longer than 45". I mean her french doors are longer than 45"... Will her doors be more prone to warping because they won't have wood in between the stiles and rails?

I'm guessing you want to save money by not having stacked cabinets, and you want to maximize storage by having cupboards go up to height of door. Can you talk to the cabinet maker and see what he says about the feasibility/doability of 52" doors?

BTW, is that a granite strip between your uppers and lowers?

Oh,

Cotehele, you responded while I was typing my response. Somehow, I interpreted your original post about the KD lowering the height, meaning you were eliminating the top cabinets.

Could the height of the fridge wall be minimized by incorporating either paneling on the wall or by painting it a color closer to the wood, so there is not so much contrast?

The side portions need to be shallower and lower than the central portion that houses the fridge. The top cabinets need some glass to break up the wall feeling. I like your ideas of the pocket doors, but without some variation in the other elements, it's just entirely too dark and forbidding---even with the tin.

Stiles and rails warp when they're much over 42" That's why tall pantry doors are properly broken up into at least 2 doorsecions. Actual windows and doors have much thicker stiles and rails and usually employ some biscuits in their joinery as well. Most cabinet doors aren't any thicker than 3/4" and are mortise and tenon joints only.

Yes, I want to maximize storage and try to keep cost down. I am trying to stay away from glass because of the added cost. The doors are punched tin rather than glass because the interior of the cabinet does not need to be as well finished. And I like the pie safe look.

I am hoping to repurpose a 100 year old stone sidewalk slab for those two countertops. It should look like this...

The other counters will probably be granite. I like soapstone, but the dark color may be too much. Maybe an unoiled soapstone would work.

OK, no glass. :) How about breaking up the upper cabinets over the tin sections in to two stacked cabinets (or a single cabinet with two doors to save costs) and shortening the section at least 6". (Maybe just shortening the sections by itself would work.) The larger doors and slab look with the single height crown molding all the way across is what isn't working. I'd also think about making the section over the fridge to be matching tin to give it more variation.

Is this better? Overall height is lower, staggered height and lighter tin in all uppers.

Yes, that's definately a better look! Not as block looking! I think I would make the side cabinets shorter still. Also, to successfully staggar the height, the depth of the cabinets also needs to be staggared, or the crown molding doesn't have a place to die into. That's why I suggested making the fridge cabinet at least 6" deeper than the side cabinets. Now that you made the side cabinets tin at the top, I'm not so sure that the section over the fridge looks right in the tin also. I think I'd try either the center upper in tin and the uppers of the sides in wood, or vice versa.

It's hard to tell with your pictures, but can you clarify if you have the OTF cabinet the same depth as your fridge, and the counter height cabinets are 12", 15" deep?

Are you trying to avoid being matchy matchy with the staggered height of the cabs over your stove? I understand that, but have no brilliant suggestions, other than do wood over the fridge (so it'd slightly different than the wood/tin combo over the stove)

As soon as you made all the cabs tin, it seemed to really tie in with your windows!

Live Wire and ci lantro -- really appreciate your input here. We have leaded glass cupboards and I would like to re-use the glass in the new cupboards. The old (80 years old) cupboards have 50 inch doors and the leaded glass inserts are 43 inches tall. (One of the four doors is warped).

I am thinking of having these doors as sliders rather than hinged so they will be fixed at top and bottom. And I would have 1 inch thick doors, possible even 5/4. Do you think this would be sufficient to avoid warping? (frames will be mahogany or cherry -- I know the mahogany is somewhat harder).

I have talked to so many firms and KD's and not a single one cautioned me against the height of the doors -- but thanks to you and GW, I now see the potential for problems.

Sorry to be so long in replying. The KD called, and we have been on the phone for more than an hour.

This is what we came up with based on your very valuable and much appreciated help, live wire oak! THANK YOU!! The side cabs are 21'' deep and the ref cab is 24'' deep. The fridge is sunk into the wall 6'' to gain aisle width, which is 39'' on both sides of the island and 41'' in front of the DW.

raehelen, I appreciate your eye for making the look of room fit together. I really want it not to look 'new'. Thanks so much.

The perspective of the rendering makes the cabinets look wider at the top and more imposing that i think they really are.

That's a really nice look! I think you have a winner.

Reusing the old glass doors may actually end up costing you more than you want in a budget situation than you think, since you have to design around them. You might look at making a free standing furniture piece from them at a later point and just using "regular" glass from a glass supply place with "standard" 3/4" construction rather than the beefier construction you need to keep it from warping. Only your cabinet maker can tell you what the price difference may be for the different options though.

Sayde--I'm far from being an expert so I can only suggest what I might do with the doors.

My preference would be that since 3 of the doors are in good shape?, I'd consider replacing just the one door (if it can be copied) and built with old wood. Possibly you can use wood from the cupboard?

I hate sliding doors so I would not go there. (Limited access, broken plane with every other door being offset, cleaning around the bottom...)

If you replace all the doors, mahogany or Douglas Fir would be good choices. Would definitely use beefier construction for a stronger frame because of the weight of leaded glass along with increased stability.

Cherry isn't as stable as mahogany or DF and might be a tougher order to find real quality material because it's so popular right now. (I don't have any experience with the exotics so there may be better choices beyond the old traditional stand-bys.)

Another possible option, if the door isn't badly warped, is an 'elbow catch'. They help to pull the door back in position & help with the appearance. Something of a PITA to operate...OK to live with if it's on a door that you open only occasionally.

Probably your best bet for getting good advice & really experienced opinions would be to check out the Knots discussion forum (Fine Woodworking, Taunton Press).

Taunton Discussions

Here is a link that might be useful: Rockler elbow catch