How exciting . . . a kitchen and family room renovation! Enjoy : )

The plan is small and hard to see for us older folk, lol. Any chance you can make it larger?

Sorry about that! I hope this is better!

Any chance you can keep the window on the long wall but just move it to the left of the range?

Your work triangle is long and it looks like a tight space between countertop and island. Very easy for someone to interfere with the cook. Can the island move closer to fam. room?

How fixed are the appliance positions? Any chance you could flip-flop the range and the sink? That's a long way to walk from the stairway for a drink of water or to wash something quickly.

Try following the route of fresh tomatoes, potatoes, cereal, milk from groc store to garbage can/compost. Try mentally preparing some of your most standard recipes--What will the walk feel like when you wash meat and produce, chop it, cook it, plate it, and clean up?

Where do you plan to store the dishes? Where will dirty dishes be plunked and will they interfere with your desk? (I always have to wash the surface after the plates have been stacked there.) Why isn't the desk in the family room?

what's the little 'cube' / room on the lower left of the kitchen?

I would put a prep sink on the lower corner of the island by the frig/range area. It will vastly improve your flow and allow a separate cleanup area.

I'm in no way a design guru like others here, but I only see one potential problem and that's if the dishwasher is moved to the right of the sink, is there enough room? When you open the door to it, will the cabinet knobs/pulls by the range get in the way? it just looks like a tight squeeze to me.

The distance from you fridge to sink is long, but you have a landing space on the island to set stuff on. A prep sink there would be nice, tho. I kind of have the same situation - long distance from fridge to sink and no prep sink, but I have a landing space at the end of a peninsula. I don't miss what I've never had LOL

Good luck with the reno! so exciting!

I am also no expert by any means, but I think that its a good location for the fridge - it can be accessed by others without getting in the way of the cook. I agree that it might be a good idea to flip flop the sink and range - then your back wont be turned to what is happening in the family room while you're cooking.

I agree that it might be a good idea to flip flop the sink and range - then your back wont be turned to what is happening in the family room while you're cooking.

That would also follow the natural path of most of the food that's cooked: from fridge to sink to stove. No doubling back, in other words. For that reason I would say that either there needs to be a prep sink in the bottom of the island, or the range and sink need to be flipped. But you're right that flipping is better because then you can see what's up in the family room when you're cooking. Also, putting the sink/DW on the right-hand wall makes them closer to the dining room, where dirty dishes come from. In other words there's less of a trek from dining table to dishwasher.

However, whether they're flipped or not, I do think they're a bit too far apart. Whatever goes on the right-hand wall (sink or stove), try centering it on that wall instead of putting it closer to the fridge.

By the way, where will the microwave, toaster and coffee maker go? Ideally you want them near the fridge, since that's where the raw materials to be microwaved/toasted/etc. come from. So, where exactly?

Thanks for this great feedback. I agree that the fridge and sink are far away from each other, we wanted to have a window on the back wall to look out into the backyard, and that's why the sink is there and not the range. If the sink is moved, that will answer lots of related questions, like the location of the trash bin, the DW not being in the way of the range, and of course the work flow. We wanted to avoid a prep sink in the island since we're not big cooks, and to keep the island one smooth surface. Moving the sink is definitely something to think about...

The microwave will be over the range. I have no idea where the toaster will go, but I like the idea of close to the fridge. And there will be no coffeemaker out because I'm a tea drinker! Still thinking about where the glasses, dishes, silverware, etc. will go. So many decisions!

The small "cube" will be a broom closet.

The island is 4 feet from the counters on both sides. We want it as close as possible to give as much walking room on the other side since that will be the main path from the family room to everywhere else in the house.

These questions and suggestions are so helpful. Anything else we should be thinking of?

Hi, Vogt. Although your kitchen is meant, above all, to function as a kitchen/family-living-center, I'd start by making sure the kitchen worked very well as a kitchen. Even people who don't cook much want that when they do, and little tradeoffs on paper have to be lived with on foot for years.

Specifically, I wouldn't build a study center into the kitchen next to the clean-up area, but rather give that important function all the room it needs for a busy family.

Actually, knowing what I do now, I wouldn't build in a study center at all, but allow THAT very important but more portable function to move where needed over time, i.e., furniture pieces. I was a fairly firm mom, but sometimes accepting that one kid was not going to permanently stop poking and another complaining, or that one needed more quiet than the other, meant that just ordering them to separate corners was the only good fix. And I cherished having it, believe me.

Whatever, maybe just place all appliances where they need to be and proportion all work areas as they need to be, as an initial step? Neither your stove nor your counter and sink piled with holiday pots and pans will ever be a fraction as portable as your students. :)

The microwave will be over the range. I have no idea where the toaster will go, but I like the idea of close to the fridge. And there will be no coffeemaker out because I'm a tea drinker! Still thinking about where the glasses, dishes, silverware, etc. will go.

Definitely take the time to figure these things out BEFORE you finalize your layout and order cabinets. It would suck to order your cabinets and then realize that the best cabinet for your everyday dishes is halfway across the kitchen from your dishwasher (that's one of the cardinal rules: store your most commonly used dishes near the dishwasher, so that unloading the dishwasher is easy). It would also suck to order everything and then realize, once it was installed, that the best spot for the toaster doesn't have a free outlet nearby or whatever.

Also, if it works with your cooking/prep triangle, make sure the fridge is on the side of the kitchen where people will be coming in and out needing stuff. For many families putting it close to the dining room makes sense--you can go grab stuff easily if you need something during dinner--but for many other families, it would make sense to have it near the family room because that's where people spend the most time, and they head from there to the fridge looking for snacks or getting a drink of water. (Another thing to keep in mind: if you're going to have a water dispenser on or in the fridge, store water glasses nearby.)

Have you thought about your kitchen in terms of zones (food storage zone, prep zone, cooking zone, cleanup zone, snack zone, baking zone if you want one separate from the cook/prep zone)? That's super important. Figuring out the zones in advance is how you avoid "oops" moments and buyer's remorse after it's installed. Just think about who will be using the kitchen (not just cooking, but using it in any way), what they'll be doing and where they'll be doing it. Think about where they'll be coming from, where they'll be going in the kitchen... for instance, think about a meal you cook a lot and break it down into steps ("first I get the pasta from the pantry" or whatever). Think about what your family does for breakfast, and if the kids are too young to get their own breakfast, what they'll be doing for breakfast in the future. The basic goal is to keep people from having to walk all over the place to accomplish whatever they're trying to accomplish, and especially to keep people from getting in the way of someone who's cooking or doing dishes.

As a general rule I agree with Rosie that building a study zone/desk into a kitchen is not a good idea. In small houses/apartments where space is at a premium it might be the best option you have, but a house that has a living room AND a family room, and an eating area in both dining room and kitchen, is not that kind of space.

The reason a built-in study area isn't great is that people's needs change and you can't force people to study where the study center is....

In general, your layout is pretty good. However, if you move the DW to the right of the sink, you cause problems...it will then be inside your Prep Zone (b/w the sink and the range) and b/w the sink and the Cooking Zone (around the range).

If you do want to make the switch, then a prep sink becomes very important. The prep sink will move the Prep Zone to the island across from the range and much closer to the refrigerator (a plus!). It will also put the prep sink close to the range.

The layout w/the prep sink in the island accomplishes two things:

• You separate the Cleanup Zone from the Prep & Cooking Zones, thus making it easy to have someone cleaning up while others are prepping and cooking.

  Both my DH and I also work full time with two children...and, like you, most of the prepping, cooking, and cleaning up are going on around the same time. The addition of a prep sink in our new kitchen has made meal prep time much easier!

Since you spend at least 70% of your time prepping (according to kitchen work studies), you should locate the Prep Zone in the most desirable spot...for most people, that means in the island where you can face people, keep an eye on the kids doing homework (or playing), and feel like you're more a part of what's going on.

[Actual time spent cooking (standing at the range stirring, etc.) is only 10% of time...at most (it's less than that for our family, but that 10% is average). Cleaning up is 20% of your time.]

If you plan seating at the island, be sure you have enough seating overhang...15" of clear space (i.e., after counting the cabinets & decorative doors on the back of the island). Having at least 15" gives you plenty of room to work as well as room for the kids doing homework or projects and for visitors and their "activities". It also gives everyone enough room for their legs w/o having to lean/hunch over to reach the counter or sit sideways. This means an island at least 41.5" deep:

......1.5" overhang on the working side of the island
....24" deep cabinets
......1" thick decorative door on the back of the island cabinets
+ 15" seating overhang
...41.5" deep island

[Note: If anyone in your family is or will be tall or have long legs, consider an 18" overhang. We have a 15" overhang and now wish we had an 18" overhang. At 5'10" I'm OK with the 15", but my 6'5" DH & 6'6" DS consider the overhang too shallow and rarely sit at the peninsula b/c of it.]

Other questions & suggestions...

1. Can you change the windows in the kitchen? If you could "connect" the two smaller windows, you would have an awesome window wall! I would also bring the windows down to the counter so they're counter-height.

2. Drop zone...a "drop zone" for mail, etc. works better and is more likely to be used if it's at the point of entry into the house that the family uses...and this usually means the garage entrance. Your "drop zone" is very far away from that and I'm afraid you will end...

I really like Buehl's layout #1, but I'd move the desk out of the kitchen, especially that close to the sink. What's that little space, back in the family room...other side of powder room wall? Maybe that could be the broom/vacuum closet and use the message center in the kitchen, instead.

Where are the windows in your living room and dining room? Could you move your 4' doorway (between the two) over about 18"? Maybe you could put a combination hutch/desk area against that wall to the stairs...and store files/printer below and dishes/display above. Then, as Buehl said, you could use a laptop at the island, or dining room table, but have easy access to printer and files, when needed :)

Again, I'm overwhelmed by the thoughtful comments. To rosie: I desperately want a kitchen that works. Our current kitchen (shown in the demo plan below) is non-functional and so frustrating. It's a good reminder to focus on making it a workable kitchen first, and everything else second. Thank you for that because I don't want to have any mistakes in this design!

About the desk: We weren't thinking of a study area, but more a "command center" in the words of DH. He's got techy plans for controlling the stereo, speakers, and TV from the kitchen -- so we need a landing space for that (not big, but away from the cooking/prepping etc). The mail and keys and phones can and probably will be dropped somewhere else closer to the garage or front door, but I want a place where I can keep the mail after it's been sorted that is not the dining room table where it ends up now, and a place where I can pay the bills. We want a public place for the kids to be on the computer, but I doubt that's where they will ever do their homework. We have a small desk in the family room now for the kids computer but it's not big enough to store mail or for me to do bills. All that said, it doesn't have to be in the kitchen, except that the kitchen is a very large space. I like the idea of a cabinet that can be closed up to hide the mess. Or to use a furniture piece rather than a built in. Other suggestions for that space if it's not a desk was a butler's pantry or a dry bar.

ideagirl2, thank you for helping me think about the locations for things. I have vague ideas, but it's clear I have much more planning to do. I think the fridge and pantry are in a good space for us. Near the dining room and easy to get to for cooking and for snacking. And beuhl has given me so much to work with. Thanks so much for playing with the layout. I love it! Especially the large window on the back wall. Any thoughts on how to do the windows if we swap the sink and the range, and no prep sink?

I was curious about the overhang for seating at the island. I'm 6' so it sounds like 18" is for me. And we will be eating dinner in the dining room. We do now, I love the family time, and I think it's important to use that space.

Lavendarlass -- the space you're talking about will be a closet with shelves to store toys, games, and outdoor stuff like a cooler, picnic blanket, etc. The dining room is dark--it has 1 small window in the middle of the right-side wall (facing west). The living room has 2 narrow windows on either side of the fireplace and a large bay window on the front wall. I don't think the doorway can move because we're taking down a load-bearing wall that currently divides the kitchen and dining room. We will have to find a hiding place for the printer though. RIght now it's upstairs but that will need to change.

Thanks everyone! You've already given...

Okay, that has to be the worst "before" I've seen in a looong time. Double congrats on your addition. :) I can see that counter end working as a organizing center if you go that way. An issue to deal with would be that it's part of the terminus of the long view down the house, so you'd want to organize open clutter out of existence.

FWIW, I like your DRM a lot. I thought that generous doorway might mean your family would be dining there a lot. You're really maximizing the potential of what is so often sadly wasted space--very family-dinable and sociable, and, of course, supervisible too.

This is not about the kitchen specifically although it will have an impact on the kitchen.

I would have a door between the family room and the new mudroom in order to create an alternate circulation pattern so all traffic did not have to travel through the dining room and kitchen to get to the family room.

A family room should ideally have multiple points of egress.

I was thinking along the same lines as Palimpest except that I would like to see the traffic flow from garage to mud room to kitchen. It seems all traffic must go thru your formal DR. As someone with a small house and few closets, I know the appeal of adding that big closet to your plan, but when I look at your plan, all I see is that the traffic flow is not ideal. Food for thought. Good luck with your plan!

Great point, pal, and easily doable in the first design by reducing the double cabinet in the mudroom across from the stairs.

My preference would be a header running the width and 2 half walls with columns (not that I'm a fond of columns and would happily eliminate them as endings for the half walls if the structure permits) in the opening from the kitchen to the FR. With both sides having a half wall, additional upper storage is possible and makes my next suggestion feasible.

Buehl has given some great zone layouts, but I'm concerned that you don't have enough natural light in both the kitchen and FR so I'd want to incorporate her large window, add a small window on the return wall and not delete the existing small window. Doing this will provide great light and cross-ventilation, but you lose a couple of uppers which you can gain on the end run of the wall with Buehl's large window..

In the family room, it would be terrific if you could include a corner disappearing slider instead of the little slider planned. This type meets in the middle without a supporting brace and really helps you expand your living space. If that's not within budget or is otherwise undesirable, would you want a series of french doors on the slider wall? Clerestory windows on the wall across from the kitchen would flood both rooms with light.

Are there any prizes for having the worst "before" kitchen ;) We have stories we can tell about that darn fridge and narrow aisle. I love our dining room and the time we spend there. It will be even better when the renovation is done -- bigger and more open.

I didn't think an entry to the family room from the mudroom was possible because of where the couch will be. But now that you raise the issue, I'm thinking if we shift the laundry to where the closet is, we could put an entryway closer to the powder room -- that might fit.

Our dining room is the main thoroughfare in our home now, and with moving the entryway from the living room and making the dining room bigger, I don't mind walking through it. We want closet space, and lots of it, but I think that a quick way to get to the powder room from the family room and from outside would be a very good thing.

My mom recommended a doorway directly into the family room from the mudroom or dining room, she also recommended swapping the sink and range -- she's 2 for 2 with this site, so maybe I should pay closer attention to what she says! LOL.

Abundant blessings -- thanks for the great ideas. I need to catch up on some of the language to totally understand -- I'm not sure what a return wall is and will look into a corner disappearing slider. My latest thought for windows is 2 floor-to-ceiling windows on the left wall in the family room to add more light. I also was thinking of adding floor to ceiling windows next to the slider, but we don't want to lose too much wall space there.

As for the half-wall, we have tried 2 half walls with the opening in the middle and also putting the half wall in the middle with entryways on either side. The half wall as it is in the drawing will most likely stay because the L-shaped couch will be against that half-wall -- this was a compromise and very important to my dear significant other who is the one concerned about technology and where things like the TV, surround-sound speakers, and couch will be in the FR. It makes the flow of traffic go all the way through the kitchen, but it allows us to have the sliders on the back wall, giving easy access from the kitchen to the outside.

I think half walls are fine as you have to have structural support and places to put things, but I'd prefer two on the ends capped with columns with a header (steel if necessary) to the one half wall and a single column in the middle which is what I think is shown. Ask if that's doable if you like that idea.

Even if you have your sectional with its corner placed toward the half wall shown, your room appears large enough for the sofa to sit away from the corner of the room to allow a passage way to the mudroom. Even in rooms that don't benefit from additional passages, I think it often feels better to position furniture away from the walls so it doesn't look crammed. In your case, the option to pass from the garage through the family room into the kitchen is a huge benefit instead of always flowing through the dining room. Just something to consider.