A few questions:

Is there really room for the banquette or should we just resign ourselves to having a small table?
Any ideas or thoughts for arranging/rearranging based on our restraints?
Is there a better use of this admittedly awkward space?
Are there any obvious things I am forgetting??

Here is one of the layouts that has been suggested to us.
Thanks so much!

anyone?

It sorta looks like there's some measuring mistakes in one drawing or the other.

In the first one, there is 36" aisle in front of a 26" deep pantry. In the second one, there is a 42" aisle in front of a counter depth ref that needs about 28-30" of depth (includes the doors but not the handles).

I would move the ref away from the doorway by reversing the pantry and ref. Either ref location has some issues with the dishwasher location. The freezer door/drawer and the dw door can run into each other. The other issue being that using one precludes using the other. The door of a modern dw sticks out into the aisle about 28". The doors of a french door will not open to 180 degrees so you need to account for a the person standing in front of the unit(about 16") and that they will need to get out of the way when opening/closing - so in total, allow something like 21" to use the french door part and about the same for the freezer drawer.

I would consider moving the DW TOWARDS the entrance door one cabinet's worth and raising it. In combination with moving the ref further into the kitchen proper, it should get rid of possible contention and also be good for everyone's back. Tall tubs are nice when you need them, but not so great when bending over.

Other trades I might make - finding a way to rotate the ref so it points towards the range, using a booth instead of a banquette + table and chairs, opening the wall at the dining room so I could have more counters and more storage but still have a good connection to an eating space Maybe more like this:

Thanks for your attention to detail, bmorepanic. The first drawing is accurate, the second, apparently not so much. Well, don't think we'll be using that designer LOL!

I have not given any consideration to having a raised DW since it would cut my 'spread out on the counter' space even more. Hmm. Something to think about for sure.

So you propose keeping the frig and the pantry where they currently are....We had planned to get a side by side frig, regular depth, and sink it farther back into the living room if we reverse the pantry and frig. Reversing those two could also give us a bit more counter space (right now I only have about 9 inches to the left of the range. We are accustomed to being patient and waiting our turns when in the kitchen (currently for instance, if the refrigerator door is open, and someone else comes in from the garage, they cannot pass through the kitchen via that walkway since the table/chairs are there).

There is no way we could put anything where you have placed the rectangle that is labeled counter height furniture as that is the doorway to the family room and another one to the garage. Not moving those, sorry to say.

You've given me something to think about re the DW, I will have to think about moving it over and raising it- thanks!

I like the second one-flows better.

I'm sorry - I read those as windows!

I know you don't want to, but the other thing to consider might be to open to the family room from the garage hall and then step into the kitchen. IF I have the order of the doors correct, that would let you have more room at the range.

We have talked about that, and really want to work within the footprint of the room/doors as they are. I appreciate your pointing that out, however.

Any ideas on maximizing storage space as far as cabinet layout???
Should we forget a banquette-type arrangement and just keep a table in the nook area?

? A banquette takes less space than a table because it can be sited closer to the wall. No need to pull out chairs.

So here's another question-- do you think that a base blind corner cabinet outfitted with one of those nifty rev-a-shelf things would hold more than a 36x36 base corner cab with a lazy susan/super susan? I really need to use each inch of space. I do not know yet what size of opening there would be for the base corner cabinet. Certainly don't want to be banging anything into my new cabs!

I would really appreciate any other ideas anyone may have for optimizing the layout of my kitchen!

That would depend on how you'd use the cabinets and the space from the other side. I want to start with a comment on the plan above - the range is drawn wrong. Even if its a cooktop above an oven - its still drawn wrong.

Ranges and ovens stick out in front of the counter. The more you spend on one, generally speaking the less it sticks out, but you can plan on a range sticking out 3" to 5" and sometimes more by the time the oven door handles are included. Usually, the entire oven door and handles are completely in front of the cabinet line.

SO, all and every kind of corner unit or blind corner unit has issues when you have your exact layout - with a corner unit next to a range - they are all going to be a pita and some you can't do at all in that situation.

A corner unit with doors that opened to each side would reduce your ability to access the corner probably quite a bit - you'd have to avoid the 12" door sticking straight out. If you did a blind unit, you'd still have to care about the other side of the corner because things like drawers will run into the range. If you did do something like the corner drawers, they would need to be fairly skinny to avoid the side of the range when they opened. And something like a magic corner unit may need some extra filler to get it to avoid the range. If the doors are hinged in the middle, they'll pile up on one side and together with the range, reduce the available space to reach into the corner.

Things like blind corner pull outs need 15-24" of space on the opening side, so the benefit would be in however you'd use the other side of the corner - are you thinking it could combine with another cabinet to make something larger? You'd loose inches from your 30" base on the other side of the range. And I'm pretty sure you'd loose inches from the sink side as you'd need to add in a pretty chunky filler. The way those mechanisms work, you'd have to check the exact clearances to make sure you could place it next to a deeper object like the range.

I'm pretty sure you can't use corner drawers either - they'd also get stopped by the range.

So - just talking out loud, but I'd really consider an angled base. With an angled base, you can use the corner for prep work. With a regular corner, you can't - this is primarily because the countertop stops your hips! Even tho its more expensive, I'd pop for one where the door was attached to the susan and rotated into the cabinet so I'd never need to fuss with it.

My range is in the same spot as yours, and I have corner cabinets with lazy susans. This is not the way I wanted them, so my kitchen is STILL not fully paid off, AND I have a 27" deep range.

Now that I have lived with it for a couple of months, it really has not been a problem. The door swings toward the range, and the cab guys are supposedly reversing that, which requires building a new door, but even as it is, I have not slammed the door into the oven handle yet!

My lazy susans are big, and I have about 13" of vertical storage on either side, so I put some dividers in for cutting boards and cookie sheets. My oil bottles also live there, so I do open that cabinet a lot!

HTH!!

Nancy

Thanks for the real-time input, Nancy. When you say you added the dividers for cutting boards and cookie sheets, that is exactly what I would hope I could do too. Did you not want lazy susans at all, or do you mean that the doors were swinging the wrong way? (when you say 'this is not the way I wanted them').

Bmore, yes, sorry I did not draw any of the appliance handles on the first drawing, that is what our kitchen currently is. When we replaced the range many years ago, we had to shave down a drawer perpendicular to the range so that it could open, so I know what you're talking about!

So in reference to the 'designer drawing'-- I was sort of thinking if we move the range down a bit like it shows, and had a blind corner cab, we might be able to squeeze in a tall skinny cab for cookie sheets/cutting boards between the range and the blind corner cab. If we stick with the corner cab/lazy susan, we will have room for an 18" drawer stack. Don't know if I would have room for dividers like Nancy referred to.

Other ideas for improving on layout most welcomed!

Linda, sorry! I have had the kind of lazy susan that Marcolo always refers to, where 2 door fronts are attached to the spinning susan. These are inset, even if the rest of the cabs are not. My cab maker swore the way they did them would be better, so I let them do it

My cabinets are inset, so there is not enough space to add small cabs for the vertical stuff. I have not permanently attatched anything for dividers yet, but I am testing somethings to see what works the best!

Nancy