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Is the built-in original to the house or a later addition? If it's original you should try to keep it. Without photos it's hard to say, but here's a perfectly charming new old kitchen in a craftsman for inspiration:

[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/finished-1923-kitchen-with-breakfast-nook-dsvw-vd~4506819?n=57[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/finished-1923-kitchen-with-breakfast-nook-dsvw-vd~4506819?n=57)

ETA More photos linked at the top of the OP on that page. She also had to deal with multiple inconvenient openings, although her kitchen is smaller overall than yours.

Just wanted to say I admire your thorough consideration of your options and wishes-what a well thought out post!

Agree 100%!

With your small space, I wouldn't keep a room (dining room) that doesn't do its share of the work. You say it may be used as an office by renters for a few years. That wouldn't be a good enough reason for me to keep it.

What you are remembering as a home office is no longer needed or wanted by the young professionals who are your renters. With people using laptops and online documents, working at home doesn't mean big computer sets ups, paper storage and fax machines. You just need a comfortable chair and maybe a small work surface. Your potential renters will be more impressed by a large functional kitchen, especially since your sunroom seems to be a good alternate place to sit and work if the other rooms are busy or noisy.

The loss of privacy because of the front-facing windows can easily be remedied by light-filtering bottom-up blinds or non-permanent window frosting on the lower panes. If you want a nicer view, some taller shrubbery in the front might also be planted. And how glorious that you will be getting light in your most-used room from 3 sides!

We went through this decision when we renovated, deciding whether to remove the wall between the family room and kitchen, to use some of the family room space for a large harvest table. Our decorator's comment was "how else are you going to get the space you need without an addition?" We love our spacious kitchen and never regretted it.

With the dining room space, you will have ample room for everything you need including laundry, an island/peninsula with a bit of secondary seating for more extensive food prep on a durable surface e.g canning. Otherwise, you still have a cramped kitchen and potentially 3 living-room type areas (living room, sun room and dining room), where you really only need one or two.

Lyndee gets to the core of the situation: vintage charm vs. trying to make a style intended to be cozy into something more open. I highly recommend the series of books by Jane Powell and Linda Svendsen: Bungalow Kitchens, Bungalow Bathrooms, Bungalow Details: Interior, and Bungalow Details: Exterior. These books are based on real-world experience by the authors and offer a range of renovation options from purist to compromise.

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Great post - on my phone right now, but a quick question: sorry if I’m being blind, but I don’t see a doorway between the kitchen and living room? It looks to be a solid wall?

A couple of questions. I read your comment "see the orange "traffic flow" arrows in the floor plan" but I don't see that anywhere.

Also, you say We can NOT alter the door from the living room into the kitchen. but I also do not see a door there. Which door are you referring to?

Thinking about your sun room, last summer we lived for 3 weeks in a renovated Edwardian home in Shropshire, which had a 4" step down, right across the middle of the kitchen. The refrigerator, cutlery drawer etc were on the top part, and the stove, sink etc on the bottom part. We cooked almost all of our meals there. The first 2 days we tripped a few times, then we got used to it and never noticed that we were stepping up and down.

If you did raise the floor in the sun room, would you need to change any of the doors and windows? Or would it be flooring only? Ceiling height? I would seriously consider it.

Which way is north in your house plan?

Thanks so much to everyone who has responded to my post. I'm only getting to see them now after a busy day and will answer in more detail later this evening.

But first , I have to call out a mistake I made and offer my gratitude to those who discovered it. Both damiarain and partim asked about the door I said we cannot move "from the living room into the kitchen", because they didn't see a door between the living room and the kitchen in my floor plans. Yup, they are right there is no door there.

What I meant to say is that we cannot move the door from the Kitchen to the Dining Room.

Apologies for any head scratching spatial confusion caused by my misstatement. Hats off to damiarain and partim for noticing the discrepancy and asking the question. Well done, and much appreciated.

What I meant to say is that we cannot move the door from the Kitchen to the Dining Room.

Why not?

If we stay in the original kitchen, this is a pretty obvious option, and probably one of the plans you've already thought of. The stove can't go on the outside wall because of the window, so the sink goes there. Stove and refrigerator opposite, with the stove venting out the roof. It meets the work triangle suggestions i.e. each leg of the triangle between 4' and 9', and the total between 13' and 26'.

I like your idea for the peninsula, which will give you more prep space, and also put that space a step closer to the range. If you can use the back of the built-in as a wall, then I'd put the fridge there, which will put it a step closer to the sink/prep area. The only spot for the DW would be to the left of the sink, in conflict with traffic from the DR, but your kitchen is essentially a pass through so you'll have traffic no matter your layout.

Or, to put the range in a more protected spot, put it on the built-in wall, with a tall pantry cabinet to the left (of the fridge):

Kudos to your beekeeper partner for the lovely bread. :)

Get a counter-depth fridge. Those few inches of extra space will make your already small space look a little bit less crammed. If you don't need a large oven, get an induction cooktop and a 24" wall oven (e.g. SpeedOven or CSO). Again, it'll gain you more space without really giving up much functionality. And it gives you more options to rearrange things so that the kitchen feels as if you didn't try to stuff it to the gills.

emilyam819,

Yes, the dining room built-in bumps into the kitchen, and yes, we want to keep it. Its a china cabinet with glass front doors and a mirrored back splash--its a vintage, 1920s touch that really adds to the charm of the house.

Forgive me, but I'm little confused by your suggestion:

"if you made the cased opening to the breakfast room on the left 12” smaller, you’d have more room for cabinets to run into that wall.

I clipped a section from the whole house floor plan with the area I think you may be referring to circled in purple. Please let me know if this is the area you are referring to, or other wise clue me in. I would like to understand.

Sara,

So nice of you to compliment me on my attempts to think through and communicate my questions. Very kind of you. I have given it my best.

Yeah, the fridge thing is a struggle. Actually the whole appliance thing seems to be in so many ways a roll of the dice.

Bummer to hear you had such a bad experience with Samsung. At least you have a repair guy! There is no such thing in my area.

Hmm… I'll have to check out the Frigidares and Whirlpools, haven't delved into those brands yet. One appliance person told me that Whirlpool makes a great many of the appliances in the US marketplace, but they are badged as another company. I believe that the appliances Ikea sells are Whirlpool

Lyndee Lee,

You are asking some very good questions.

The main entrance to the house is through a pair of french doors in the living room, at the top of the main floor plan originally posted. If you are headed to the kitchen with a bag of groceries, you will probably walk through the dining room into kitchen. Alternatively, you could also traverse the entire living room, the sun room and the breakfast nook to arrive in the kitchen proper.

Primary transport might be by foot or bike. The car is for things you can't carry home on your person or your bike (grocery is a few blocks away).

The car is parked on the street in front of the house (right outside the front door)down a few steps. The car rarely makes it into the driveway, which is up a little hill and a bit to narrow for easy use.

Yes, you are right, we live in a reasonably mild climate, a coastal one in fact. We don't really need bulky coats and it is rare that it gets cold enough to freeze our pipes, but it has happened.

To help everyone get a better idea of the situation, here is a new image of the floor plan. It has the entryway/porch added, larger orange traffic flow arrows, and a compass rose indicating North which partim asks about down thread.

To All,

I have also reworked the floor plan of the kitchen so it includes the breakfast area, adding color coding and handwritten notes. I hope its more helpful/informative.

I wish I could edit my original post to feature these updated images, but it doesn't seem like I can.

NOTE TO PARTIM--some of these changes are in response to your questions, asked down thread

writersblock,

The built-in is original to the house. Here is a photo where you can see its glass front doors, and mirrored backsplash. By the way, it will be getting a fresh coat of paint. ;-)

(ADD china-cabinet.jpg)

Thanks for the pointer to Rudebekia's gem of a kitchen!

This was certainly a puzzle--with the multiple openings *and* a significant level change. She did a splendid job making the most of her space and still managed to preserve the vintage character.

Amazing how much she was able to do in such a compact footprint. An inspiration!

(By the way, nice of you to agree with Sara on the thoroughness of my post-so kind!)

partim,

You really engaged my questions in a substantive way and I so appreciate your articulating your stance in such detail, very helpful.

Allow me to share a bit more about out situation that has not been described in my original post.

You make a number of great points:

1) The home offices of the past with big furniture and equipment, is an outdated model. The potential young professional renters will likely need "only a comfortable chair and maybe a work surface." You also mention the sun room as an alternate workspace if the other rooms are noisy or busy.

I agree with you on all these points. Its not that people need a special place to work anymore, its that this room is just well suited to the kinds o high focus, energetic activities I associate with working.

The dining room is the sunniest, most open feeling room in the house to do things that take a lot of visual acuity and alertness. My renter chose to set up her laptop and standing desk in the dining room and worked from there. She also chose to home school her grand daughter in that room.

It just has an energetic quality that lends its self well to those kinds of activities. And of course, it has a more public, less private vibe.

As an aside, I'm sure you won't be too surprised to learn that the sun room gets too hot to hang out in in the summer.

2) The loss of privacy in the dining room could be remedied any number of ways with shrubs, shades or sandblasted glass in the windows.

These are all perfectly respectable solutions to the visual privacy concern, but thats not the whole story. The street is so close to the front of the house, we can hear passers-by conversations from the dining room and they can hear ours as well, especially in the summer when the windows are open. This is one of the main reasons it just feels too exposed for private life. This might not bother other folks as much as it bothers me. I'm an introvert.

By the way, the small front yard was filled with large shrubs when we took possession of the house. They were dense, oppressive and made all the rooms in the front of the house dark. They didn't do a thing to muffle the sound of conversations. The house seemed much bigger when we removed them and sun poured into previously gloomy rooms.

I like your suggestion about the bottom up shades and I think that is a great idea. I'm going to look into that.

3) A large functional kitchen would be a more impressive, more attractive aspect of the house versus the smaller division of space than a dining room, kitchen, breakfast room, sun room, etc. would offer.

Interesting point, one well worth considering.

We have also wondered whether our potential young professionals will care about the kitchen at all. It is quite possible that they may not cook much, preferring to opt for take out/dining out.

Early on, we considered opening up the whole right side of the house, which is what I think you are proposing--making the whole dining room, kitchen and breakfast room one gigantic room.

It would be great for fitting all the kitchen appliances, work zones, hang out space, beverage and baking centers in. However, it would be completely out of proportion with the rest of the house. It would be a great bowling alley of a room, right next to the living room, two silos in effect.

In the end the public nature of the dining room and the period charm of the built-in china cabinet in the dining room seemed to be best left alone. Thus we decided to focus on the kitchen and the breakfast nook/room as the spaces to rework.

I'm delighted to learn how happy you are with your spacious, open plan remodel, and I'm a little jealous! It sounds like you made a lot of good decisions and ended up with a space that works well for you and your family--something I aspire to in my remodel.

Lyndee Lee

You have identified one of the sticky wickets of our remodeling endeavor: the tradeoff of vintage charm versus modern open spaces.

Thanks for the vote of confidence in maintaining the small scale of the rooms, that it is possible to do it in a way that would not feel claustrophobic.

Your idea of narrowing the passageway between the kitchen and kitchen and breakfast nook/room to 48"or 54" is imaginative and intriguing--a completely new idea!

I did a quick check on dimensions for laundry stacks. They might not need the full width that narrowing the passageway would allow for, if apportioned equally to both sides of the room. Of course, laundry equipment comes in a range of sizes, so there's that.

I would LOVE to have a pantry, that would be grand! I could also use the small space for a broom closet.

Very cool, unconventional Idea, just the kind I am looking for. Thank YOU, Lyndee.

Bloomingbug,

Ah, you have sung the siren song of "books" to me. I ADORE books and have found the Bungalow and Bungalow Bathrooms in my local library's database. I will be heading the library ASAP.

Thank you so much for the pointers.

Yes, you are so right about the ongoing issue of how to keep the charm and yet make things actually work in today's world. Its a non-trivial dimension of the puzzle.

partim,

Regarding the "orange traffic flow arrows in the floor plan" that you aren't seeing.

I initially posted two images of the floor plan--one is the whole house, and one is just the kitchen proper. The orange arrows are in the whole house floor plan. Is it possible that you were looking at just the kitchen image?

You were also asking about where North is in in the floor plan.

I have reworked the image of the whole house floor plan to include the entryway (which Lyndee Lee asked about), enlarged the orange arrows, and added a compass rose to indicate North.

Please scroll up thread to find the new images.

Thanks so much for telling me about your visit to Shropshire with the bi-level kitchen, very interesting to hear how quickly you adapted to the change in level. Good to keep in mind.

RE: the question about raising the sun room floor, YES we would need to change the french doors that lead out to a deck that is currently the same level as the floor in the sun room. That change was one that had all kinds of repercussions in terms of the local code. We could have lived with the windows and a lower ceiling.

After we considered all the changes we'd need to implement to elevate the floor, we decided to bail on it because it was going to be so expensive and we had so much other stuff to do (electrical, plumbing, heating, etc.)

Its would be a great thing to do, but we just decided that we couldn't afford to do it now. Who knows, maybe we'll take up this challenge after we have a few years of rent to finance it.

Hello Mama Goose,

Delighted to see you here, thanks for chiming in!

You are absolutely right, the kitchen is essentially a pass through and we will have traffic through the triangle, no matter what.

We are definitely thinking of the back of the built-in as a wall.

I'm quite intrigued with your proposed layouts, I think both of them are pretty functional and the photos attest to the personable, inviting quality of a peninsula element--lovely.

Although they look similar, they offer different affordances and efficiencies.

Design 1

--shorter trip for fresh produce to the sink

--longer trip from the sink to the range

--more "elbow room" and countertop area around the range to work/set down

--lots of space left of the fridge to unload groceries

--a little less light coming into the room from the dining room (tall fridge)

Design 2

--longer trip from for fresh produce to the sink

--shorter trip from the range to the sink

--less countertop area to the right of the range to work/set down

but plenty on the left (I'm right handed).

--set down space on the peninsula for unloading groceries into the fridge and …PANTRY!

--a little more light coming in from the dining room (countertop height range)

Another possible advantage to Design 2 is that I might be able to minimize the need for upper cabinets, which would make the kitchen seem bigger. I know its a tradeoff (light and openness vs closed storage). Opinions?

Given that most of the time in the kitchen is spent prepping does it make sense to prioritize the fridge to the sink pathway?

That said, I notice that the way I cook (mise en place--bowls of ingredients that I tend to dump in the sink as soon as I use the ingredient, rinsing off the knife when I decide at the last minute to add garlic) I end up needing the sink a fair amount.

Hmmmm…pondering...

I'll certainly pass your Kudos along to my beekeeper for his "bee bread". He'll be tickled.

M,

You have made some excellent suggestions here.

Yup, the counter depth fridge does seem like a good call, we have been strongly considering this size/style. Your recommendation is noted.

As you probably already know, I'd love to have a range top and a wall oven. I have also been intrigued by the CSO option. They seem very versatile. I love the idea that it would be smaller and the kitchen would feel larger as a result.

Unfortunately I don't have a good idea about where we could place a wall oven. We are still wrangling with the layout, by all means speak up if you have a solution!

I guess I'm thinking that I need to have a conventional oven because we will need to rent the house for several years before we move in and its already a slightly quirky, small, old house. I don't want the lack of a "regular range" to be yet another strike against it in a competitive rental market.

Regarding the induction: Though there are certainly positives, we decided against it because we'll be renting and the glass surface is not as durable as cast iron. In addition, we didn't feel we wanted to either provide cookware or render the prospective tenant's cookware un-use-able with an induction cooktop/range.

The appliance decisions have been surprisingly complex. I had no idea how many options there would be to consider in every appliance category. Then there are the reliability issues and local service availability if there is a problem.

Despite hours expended, I am still working to identify my particular makes/models.

Yes, May, the wall you circled in purple was the wall I meant. Sorry I did not explain clearly. I meant that if you make the wall a but bigger (opening smaller) then it would make more room for the cabinets. But as long as the wall is at least 24” and the fridge wasn’t there, it’s fine.

writersblock,

BOO! I attempted to add the image of the china cabinet for you and blew it! Here it is, at long last:

Did I mention that we will be repainting it? It was supposed to be a much softer peach.

Paint colors are tricky. I've learned my lesson.

Lovely china cabinet (color not withstanding ;)

Here is a layout with the opening between the breakfast nook & kitchen completely removed. Which I realize you may not be interested in, but thought seeing it wouldn't hurt =)

Benefits:

- space for cooktop + separate wall oven

- washer & dryer added to the nook

- DW can go on either side of the sink (depends if it's more annoying to have it ~block the doorway to the dining room or more annoying to have it between sink & fridge)

- trash could go under the sink

- that's a 36" cabinet for the sink - so lots of room for a nice, large, single basin sink! #teamSingleBasin

Having to rent things out does indeed complicate things a lot. Where I live, if the house has the majority of all four walls (a roof would be a bonus), then it'll rent out within 5min of listing; with two months deposit up front, and a hefty application fee.

On the other hand, getting a tenant who'll treat the place nicely is a whole other question. Most landlords would be well advised not to install top-of-the-line appliances. In fact, if you plan on moving into the place after renting it out for several years, the normal thing to do would be replacing all the appliances when the last tenant moves out.

That makes things challenging, as you need to build the kitchen so that it can accept the fancy appliances that you actually want (i.e. nice stove or range, CSO oven, counter-depth fridge). But it also has to be built so that it can accept "builder-grade" semi-disposable appliances. And those often don't come in the same dimensions. Also, the math has to work out, and the rental income has to provide enough provide to pay for two sets of appliances.

The reality of things is, that where I live, nobody would put much effort into a remodel when putting a unit on the market. The remodel would happen only after pulling it from the market when the owner is ready to move in themselves.

I assume things are different where you live, though. We have a uniquely tight housing supply.

damiarain,

Wow, what a beautiful rendered layout you have designed and modelled, thank you very much. Such a nice hardwood floor you gave us! ;-)

Removing the opening between the breakfast nook & kitchen is absolutely fair game, we're brainstorming here. I'm delighted that you went for it.

I do like the expanse of counter top adjacent to the cooktop, lots of space for my bowls of ingredients, spices, etc. In addition, I could actually have that wall oven I want!

The laundry seems right at home there tucked in under the window, I think that could work out very well.

The machines you chose appear to be full size machines, which is what I would prefer, much more capacity. (How does laundry accumulate so fast? Before I know it, its time to do it *all over again*.) A laundry in the kitchen would be so much more convenient than the garage.

Seems to me that the dishwasher/DW drawer might be best located next to the fridge, as it wouldn't block the door to the dining room when it was open.

YES, I want that big single basin sink! And trash underneath would be convenient and sleek.

Very streamlined design, which I appreciate damiarain, well done.

M,

I applaud your insight. You understand our appliance dilemma precisely--we are kinda damned if we do, damned if we don't.

We will need to rent the house for a few years, and yes, it absolutely complicates things in multiple dimensions.

You mention that in your area no one would remodel for a rental, delaying that for the time when they would be moving in. Makes sense in many cases, not in ours.

In essence, our little house was uninhabitable. The plumbing and electrical systems were nearly 100 years old and failing. No working heat, *bitter* cold in the winter. There is so much more to say, but I'll just leave it there, I'm sure you get the idea.

Now onto the rental situation--our housing market is tight too, though maybe not as tight as yours. As I peruse the listings to see what the competition looks like, I have noticed landlords upgrading their properties. More and more, upscale finishes and features are becoming common. This is also a piece of our appliance puzzle.

Right now, I'm looking in the "higher end of the middle" of the consumer product lines, something with decent build quality and would be serviceable if need be (technicians and parts are available in my area).

These options are maybe not exactly what I would choose for myself, but I would be okay with when we move in. Choosing appliances with installation requirements that are not so unique, such that a similar replacement in a few years (for us) would still play nicely with its surroundings.

As I mentioned before, I'm still undecided as to which brands and specific products, despite giving it a really good try.

This is the best compromise I have come up with. What do you think? What would YOU do?

And on a different, yet related note:

Yes, finding good tenants is crucial, no question about it. I've been a renter quite a bit myself, and I learned much from the experience.

My approach with a small apartment we manage is to make it *spotless* and as nice as it possibly can be, given its modest charms.

I/we also endeavor to be diligent, responsive landlords--staying on top of maintenance and such. We have had an abundance of great tenants, but I've also been surprised by some.

I aim to take the high road, and in general they return the favor. So far, so good, ~20 years in.

Thank you for the photo of the built-in. It's very charming.

writersblock,

You are welcome. I'm very pleased to see that you found the photo. Thanks again for the pointer to Rudebekia's clever craftsman kitchen.

Did I mention that we will be repainting it? It was supposed to be a much softer peach.

Paint colors are tricky. I've learned my lesson.

Did you know it probably wasn't painted originally but was stained?

cpartist,

Yes, you are right. it was probably stained, as was the practice when it was built. The mantle and twin cabinets flanking it were probably stained as well.

All of that woodwork was painted when the house came into the family, so we have never seen it stained, its always been painted.

Scootcha,

Hmm...how to evaluate charming? I guess the most charming aspect of the breakfast nook might be the windows, (cottage style ) and we are not planning to change those.

Your point about a charming old floor plan will never work for modern needs is a great one. This is exactly what we are wrestling with.

If this were your house, what kind of changes to the floor plan would you consider?

One aspect of this house that I haven't mentioned previously is that we do not have space on the lot to expand the footprint of the house much at all. The only space where we could put an addition on would be the back bedroom and that doesn't help with the kitchen situation!

In the spirit on making do with what we have, I'm becoming more convinced that we are going to need to merge the kitchen and the breakfast room spaces into one.

I am a strong believer in form follows function. I primarily design my house so that it is functional for what I need, and then I decide on design.

This means, for an old house, I wouldn't have any qualms about sticking modern amenities and modern floor plans into a vintage shell. Some people would complain that this results in a design that isn't true to the original heritage. And they are correct; sort of. On the other hand, I feel that my approach is equally defensible.

In other words, you have to decide for yourself just how far you want to move into either direction. And then of course, it's a matter of execution. It is all too easy to botch both form and function. But with some effort, it is possible to design a modern functional home and have the original vintage design-spirit prevail.

And yes, in your case I think that means opening up the space between kitchen and breakfast room. It isn't authentic. But small rooms isn't what makes 1920's houses appealing. It was a pragmatic solution to poor insulation and high heating costs. We don't have those problems these days.

My DB is in a similar situtation as yours. He planned on renovating a home, renting it for a few years and then moving into it himself. But he is in a hot rental market. He met with a realtor who advised him to do some repairs, painting, and a few changes required for legally renting. But she said not do do the "big" renovation now. She advised him to build up his nestegg with the rental income and then he would be able to have plenty of money on hand to do his dream renovation later. Depending on your rental market, a similar approach might be right for you. It might be helpful for you to talk to a realtor about it. On the other hand, if your rental market is slow, you might get the opposite advice.

I really like Damien's kitchen layout with laundry. I suspect the W/D shown are the compact variety. I have a pair of compact front loaders with a counter on top (very handy space) My counter is 30 inches deep to accommodate the compact W/D. You need about 5 inches behind appliances for hookups! I would probably prefer the larger version, but then the W/D would be 5 or 6 inches deeper!

I have gotten use to the smaller size and decided they are the best use of the space that I have.

If you look, you may find some top loaders of an older style that may work, but everything is getting bigger!

Miele is famous (infamous?) for making relatively compact washers and dryers. Everybody who bought them seems to really love them. They are very different from traditional American washers/dryers, but judging by the raving reviews they must be doing something right. I am afraid they'd be too small for our household. But your needs might very well be different.

As all things Miele, though, they are not exactly cheap. If this is your own home to live in, I could see splurging and getting really nice appliances. But if this is a rental property, I wouldn't chance it. Renters tend to put a lot more wear and tear on appliances.

M,

So great to hear your take on form following function. I think we share a practical streak.

On the one hand, I'm not a preservationist, on the other I do want to be true to the spirit of the house. I'm not aiming to make it something its not, and I don't want to "over improve" either.

I agree that its entirely possible to "design a modern functional home and have the original vintage design-spirit prevail". In fact, thats precisely the balance I'm striving to achieve.

In my situation, honoring the vintage design spirit means keeping certain elements intact:

--the cottage windows

--the china cabinet

--the built-ins in the living room flanking the fireplace

I'm not as attached to keeping the kitchen and breakfast room spaces separate as my partner is.

In the spirit of cooperation and domestic harmony ;-) I've solicited feedback on how we could fit everything in the footprint of the kitchen proper, and posters to this thread stepped up admirably (THANK YOU!!)

Reading the comments here has allowed me to feel more comfortable with merging the kitchen and the breakfast room--that this might be the right place to "modernize". Considering the two spaces as one is beginning to feel…well…more practical to me.

Your point about it being possible to botch both the form and the function strikes a cautionary note---Sheesh, that would be awful. Aiming to avoid this, on both counts!

Thanks so much M, for your always incisive comments.

shadowpipersallie N,

I think your DB got good advice about making minimal repairs and building his nest egg for the major remodel down the road.

I don't know if you saw my previous response to M broaching the same subject: the wisdom of remodeling what will be a rental for a few years.

Long story short--we are doing the remodel now because the house was pretty much uninhabitable. The electrical, plumbing, heating, systems needed total replacement. There was *no* kitchen ventilation, some windows and doors needed replacement, etcetera.

Given that we had to rebuild all the infrastructure, it didn't really make sense to exclude the kitchen and the bathroom as they are so integrated with the electrical and plumbing systems.

I am a remodeling newbie, I didn't understand the magnitude of what we were taking on. So, here we are, dog paddling as fast a we can, in the deep end of the pool.

I guess its a familiar story.

Karenseb,

I like damiarain's layout too! I wondered if the equipment she included in her layout were compact or larger sized versions.

Great to know about the need for space behind the appliances for hook ups--crucial detail!

What is it like to live with compact laundry equipment? Do you find that the capacity is sufficient? Do you have to wash your sheets and towels one at time? Does it take less time, the same amount of time, or more time to do the laundry?

Another question. When I looked at washers and dryers at the appliance stores, it seemed that almost all the compact versions had condensing dryers. Is yours a condensing model? I've only had venting dryers and am curious as to what they are like to live with.

Please do post again to let us all know the pros and cons as you've experienced them.

On the other end of the spectrum, I agree that things are also getting bigger. There are some HUGE washers and dryers out there!

M,

Yes, I've seen the Miele compact washers and dryers on the market. The small size is quite appealing, especially since we are tight on space.

That said, I don't know if they would work for us either, even though we are just 2 people.

I do hope that Karenseb will respond and let us all know about her experience with these compact units.

Good to know that the Miele's compact equipment has garnered the good opinion of their users, thanks for passing that along. I haven't looked as closely at washers and dryers as I have kitchen equipment. The kitchen has been keeping me pretty busy, as you know.

I agree with you about not splurging on the super nice appliances for a rental.

I think I mentioned to you my deep descend into the rabbit hole of appliance land and how I had decided to focus on the higher end of the middle of the consumer grade product lines. I'm aiming for something that will perform reasonable well, for at least a few years, but I won't be crushed if/when have to replace it.

Of course, I'll be missing out on that Blue Star when I move in. :-(

Ah well, such is life.

To all,

I got busy and was only able to read the occasional new post, didn't have time to respond for a few days.

Today when I sat down to write I noticed that a couple of the postings that I had seen before seemed to have evaporated! Is it possible for a poster to remove their post? I'm a newbie here and don't know the ins and outs.

There was one poster who shared a really unusual layout with a peninsula and a banquette that was very thought provoking, and I never got to tell them how interesting I thought it was. BOO! Who ever you are, I want you to know how much I appreciate your boldly striking out into new design territory, please come back!

Anyway, I wanted to thank everyone for participating and sharing their opinions and experiences. It continues to be really helpful. My thinking about what might be possible has moved in new directions. (Now, if I can just bring my beloved along with me ;-)

I feel very fortunate to have discovered this place where I can learn from people who are engaged in the home improvement domain, as its a new one for me.

Its been a bit overwhelming at times and your comments have been a big help. Hats off and a sweeping bow to all the generous souls here.

Yes, posts can be removed but I do see a layout with a peninsula by mamagoose.

It sounds like Lyndee"s washer and dryer are compact also. The Lg washing machine and Whirlpool dryer were in the house when we bought it 6 years ago. I looked really hard at remodeling the area. It is a mudroom/laundry/office space off the kitchen and looks out over the really pretty backyard. It has oodles of storage which I love, but it took a while to get used to the compact w/d. My husband still does not like them. The w/d smallness and the space constraints make it work for me. I have a king size bed and can fit both top and bottom sheet, but feel they wash better separately with a few small items. The dryer is the main problem, but it works.

I have to take the sheet and other items out and put it back in to get the sheet dried evenly. Shirts and other items dry fine.

I usually take one laundry basket and sort it into lights and darks and do two loads at a time. If I had to run to the basement or garage, I would definitely get a larger W/D.

If one of these machines break, I am hoping GE still sells the vented model and will probably get GE as a new pair.

The bigger problem you may encounter would be the noise from the machines. The washing machine is fairly quiet, but all dryers are noisy as far as I can tell.

Did you finish the renovation? I appreciate your lengthy description.  My Kitchen/Breakfast Room/Laundry are have similar issues.