hardwood - pre-engineered or natural?
fillagirl
11 years ago
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anitamo
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoyayagal
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoRelated Discussions
Engineered Hardwood versus Hardwood
Comments (23)ok, this is an area where I actually know something! I sold and spec'ed hardwood for a custom shop before my mommy-life. The information you are getting here is correct. Engineered floors will give you 1-2 refinishings ON A PERFECT SUBFLOOR. One of the issues that sometimes arises if there are inconsistanies in the height of your subfloor. Because there is thinner wood wearlayer (before you get to the engineered wood) there is the chance that you can damage the floor irreparably when you sand it. Now I only saw this saw this happen twice, once on a loft job and once in an older home. The loft was more subtle as it was over concrete, the old house more obvious as they were DIYers and picked engineered flooring to try to negate their irregular subfloor (they neglected to tell us that that was why they chose engineered, we would have talked them out of it had we seen the floor first) Neither of their claims to the manufacturer were fully settled because both times they did not follow the guidelines for floor prep. The loft job was also a materials only job for us with their GC laying the floors but he insisted he knew what he was doing. A good engineered floor will not be cheaper than most of your nail down options because the production costs are higher. Now having said that, GOOD engineered floors certainly have their place in places where you can't put traditional hardwood due to height restrictions or concrete subfloors. My boss had a great engineered floor in his basement and it survived a flood remarkably well (it was ash, Kahrs brand out of Scandinavia and one of the beefier engineered floors and one of the pioneers) My Grandmother also had a Kahrs floor in her ground suite condo and she LOVED it and I was impressed by the milling. I'm considering it for our basement because it's warmer and less echo-y than laminate There has been a lot of 2nd rate engineered flooring coming out of China and being labeled for all sorts of different companies. You should be able to tell an engineered sample because the layers are sandwiched together and the tongue will be a different wood than the top (showing) layer. Distressed finishes are usually more expensive because of the extra step in manufacturing to make it distressed. That is different than just getting a lower grade of hardwood like a rustic or tavern grade (in solid hardwood). Those grades have more character but they often don't carry a warranty and generally have a higher waste percentage. Another thing to think about---if you ever have to replace part of the floor, you will always be able to replicate 3/4" thick hardwood but engineered floors are more like tile, they change and get discontinued over the years. You could go pre-finished, save the hassle of site finishing but with the thicker wear-layer a 3/4" nail down floor offers. Only you will know if you can handle beveling or not. The changes in milling the last 10 years are huge. The bevel in your better milled wood is tiny. I like Canadian mills, Model or Mirage for pre-finished. Remember that if you ever re-finish, the bevel will disappear and you will, essentially have a site finished floor. One benefit that many people don't know about? With a prefinished tongue and grooved floor you can have a good installer cut out a single board (or more) from your floor if it gets damaged which is why we did a fair bit of pre-finished in new homes since inevitably we would get call-backs at move in to repair trade damage (@#$%^ plumbers and their big wrenches!). Prefinished hardwood deals the best with shinkage and expansion issues because the finish is on individual boards. Site finished floors are more labor intensive but the materials are cheaper (apples to apples). They are what many people consider the gold standard however there are more steps and you don't always know how it's going to look until it's done. There is more chance of finish contamination and trade damage during the rest of the building process. We refinished 100 year old floors. I loved the idea that there wasn't 4 generations of carpet and crap in the landfill. Definitely a forever floor and it can usually be re-sanded for all but the very worst water damage (think entire house under water for a few days) If you are going with a wide plank, keep in mind your species and humidity level (and your ability to keep humidity stable). The wider the plank (with 3/4" thick flooring), the more obvious shrinking and expanding will be. If you take a 2" wide board and it shrinks 2%, it isn't very noticeable. If you take a 6" wide board and it shrinks 2% the gaping will be more noticeable and in the case of a site finished floor *could* pull your finish apart. You'll need to find a flooring contractor in your area with lots of experience. Most of the best hardwood shops ONLY do hardwood. Beware of carpet shops and many of the big box stores in many instances. Make sure they are accredited with the NWFA (national wood flooring association) http://www.nwfa.org/member/ good luck!...See MoreEngineered Hardwood vs Hardwood vs LVP in Kitchen/Dining/Living? MDWST
Comments (19)Kim,,,it's very solid. just make sure the glue is spread to completely cover the plank. I have a few spots (like under the kitchen sink) where they missed the corner and it squeaks. They've held up great. I don't have dogs, but I have cats and have heard their nails burning rubber across the floor they go off on their tangents. I've spilled water, cleaned up their barf, spilled food, whatever, it all cleans up very well. as for dents, only if you drop something very heavy. but any wood floor will dent. I vacuum w/a Dyson, and then I use Bona wood floor cleaner on a mop. in the kitchen, i'll often take the scrubby brush and watered down Dawn to clean up spills or oil stains. no problem. no, I don't baby them. I don't wear shoes in my house though. I love my floors. just make sure on install they clean up all the glue residue. my guys were messy and lazy. had to call them back w/special glue remover and rag and go over the entire floor....See MorePre-finished Hardwood/Eng Hardwood recommendation
Comments (8)Ok...first things first. Janka hardness ratings only apply to solid hardwood. Engineered planks do not work with Janka because the plied layers underneath are often 'soft woods'. Considering Janka measures how much force it takes to imbed a metal ball into the wood, it isn't possible to offer Janka scores for engineered. They just don't compute. The next thing I'm going to point out is the oddity of trying to match the ENTIRE HOUSE to a single room of existing hardwood. You have a small amount of hardwood that is dictating the rest of the house. It's not impossible but it is HIGHLY unusual. In other words, you are trying to put down more than a thousand square feet of flooring by trying to match 150 - 250sf of dining room (I don't know the size of your dining room so I'm only guessing here). That's a little like putting the cart before the horse. Usually we see this the other way around. Usually we have a house full of hardwood (big amount) but the bedrooms have carpet (small amount). The homeowners then agonize over getting a match for the smaller area. That is normal. As for your price range that you are looking at, they are too low and a little thin. The gold standard is 3/4" thickness (solid or engineered). An engineered product with 3mm or more of wear layer is the base level. The thicker the wear layer the more times a floor can be refinished. The Gold standard is 6mm wear layer (usually in the $10/sf range). If you are having a hard time finding floors that you like, you might want to think about replacing the dining room at the same time. This takes away all the pressure to work with low-grade hardwoods just to get a match to a small amount of hardwood. Solid or engineered should be more than what you are looking at for price. Prefinished wood flooring should be in the $7/sf just to start and they go up from there....See MoreInstall pre-finished engineered hardwood floors before cabinets?
Comments (16)@ millworkman - I was very specific, stating that I purchased LVT, but the OP did say the contractor wanted to install the cabinets prior to installing the floor. I do think the same solution could work for installing hardwood and could be a viable solution for many flooring installations. I assess process efficiency and risk for a living. In this process you have the install and future issues that must be considered. In the installation process, the pre-finished flooring may be damaged: This leaves you three options - don't have the floor pre-finished - have it finished on site or Try to not damage the floor while doing the cabinet installation or Install the prefinished floor after installation of the cabinets. If you install after the installation of the cabinets you either need the cabinets on a platform the same height as the floor or you have to deal with the difference in height and run risks of the Dishwasher getting stuck under the cabinets and using quarter round or shoe molding to hide the edges. If you have a leaky dishwasher in 2 years and it ruins your engineered hardwood finish in front of the dishwasher do you really want the flooring to be locked under the cabinets where those few boards cannot be lifted and replaced without moving the cabinets? The limitation is that you can't easily change the footprint of the cabinets without having to change the flooring underneath the cabinets. Which is the more likely occurrence - needing to change out a handful of floor boards or wanting to change the footprint of the cabinets? I obviously have not done a complete analysis, but on its face this seems to be a pretty good idea and could save homeowners from big headaches down the road a few years....See Morejmc01
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