"Do I need to call in a pro on this one?"

Yes. Doubly so since you are selling.

Your ceiling radiant system probably is 240 volts and uses a single pole thermostat. Does comply with code. But it means that the cable is energized at 120 volts to ground even when it is "off". The system for that room is ruined. Typically, electric baseboard heaters units are used to replace such systems. I would have told you that doing anything more than painting the ceiling was almost certain to cause problems. Those other folks were anxious to make a sale and told you what you wanted to hear, but not the truth.

"I asked the manufacturer of the tin ceiling tiles if that was a problem and they assured me it wasn't. "
"Is it possible that I ruined the heating panels by screwing through them or that they are OK? "

Possible? I'd say 150% definite. The folks who told you to just screw into the ceiling were fools if not outright idiots.

I forgot to add. The solution is to abandon the panels and install an alternate heat source, such as baseboard heaters. Those panels were terrible anyway.

Your ceiling radiant is now dead. You must disconnect all power to it and abondon it.
Might as well continue with the rest of the tin ceiling. You can't do any more harm.

It is now morning and I reactivated the power in the house. I've been monitoring the ceiling for hot spots and nothing yet. No smoke or hot spots.

As far as an alternate heat source, this is the kitchen and there is a total of only about 4 linear feet of wall space that don't have cabinetry or appliances. No place to put baseboards or other source of heating. I hate to say it but the ceiling is about the only place to fit a heating source in this room.

Now that I have the lights on and no hot spots in the ceiling, if I turn on the heat and it seems to operate correctly, would it be totally irresponsible to do anything other than condemn the ceiling heating in this room?

CONDEMN THE HEATING, CUT THE FEED TO IT AND ABANDON IT!!!!!!

under NO circumstance should you leave those panels hooked up. there WILL be a fire sooner or later. find the feed for them, cut it off and stuff it back int eh wall. remove the breaker if at all possible, at the very least disconnect them from teh breaker int eh panel.

Ok, got the message.

I have calls in to a couple of electricians to take a look. Waiting to hear back. For safety sake, I can cut the wires and abandon the panels but I am going to need some source of heat in the room.

Decided a screw in that ceiling tile might have hit a wire. So I put in new screws and backed out the original screws.
I can't believe that you knew that a screw had created a short, and you didn't cut the power before removing the screw! I think you're pretty lucky you didn't get electrocuted.
And testing the in-ceiling heater by turning it on and waiting to see if it starts a fire!?! How does that seem like a good thing to do?
Switch the breaker off immediately and wait for the electrician.

Any suggestion how I can find an electrician familiar with this type of installation? I've been calling elecricians all day. I even had one argue with me that they don't install radiant heating in ceilings and even if they did, it wouldn't be older than 15 years, not 30-40.

I tried ServiceMagic to find an electrician. They did hook me up with an old timer who perfectly understood the equipment and my problem but unfortunately, he was an HVAC guy and not an electrician.
The county electrical contractors association only gives names and numbers of those licensed contracters in your town, they won't tell your experience or specialty.

since you are going to replace the FPE panel as well, tell them you want them to quote you on replacing the main panel and disconnecting the feed to a damaged radiant heat system at the same time. that is all they need to know to do the job correctly. if you ask them ONLY about the radiant, they will likely tell you to call an HVAC guy to fix it.

Is getting the panel repaired/replaced out of the question at this point?

I still need some source of heat in the room and I only have about 4 linear foot of wall space without cabinet or appliances. If I knew I was going to do this, I would have installed radiant heat under the tile. Too late for that though.

Most likely the radiant consists of single strands of heating resistance conductor that was stapled in a prescribed pattern to the first layer of drywall on the ceiling. Then a layer of plaster or special mastic was SUPPOSED to be plastered over the cable. This was often "overlooked" by unscrupulous installers. Then another layer of drywall was installed. I never liked the system. Now you must select an alternative heating system.

Here is a link that might be useful: Reference without comment from me

Overdone, a few posts back you say you got the message. Now you are asking if it can be repaired????
I think the replies have been very clear and quite polite up to this point considering the circumstances.

At this point PLEASE remove the idea of repairing this heat from your list of options.
How about a small fan forced heater on a spot of open wall. Cadet makes some nice ones that are not overly expensive and are easy to install.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cadet wall heater

They do make toe kick heating for under kitchen cabinets, that will increase your 4' area quite a bit.

OH yeah. Good call, I forgot that option.

I just installed two units this week too. Duh me.

I get the message that the panel is dead and I have it off at the breaker. I was just wondering if it could be replaced by an electrician. Embedded ceiling panels seem to be non-existant anymore.

Toe kick heater? That sounds promising. Googling now. can these generally be retrofitted without pulling up the cabinets?

My kitchen is relatively small, only about 11' x 9.5'. but there are three doorways leading to the basement, living room, and dining room (hence the lack of wall space). Any rough idea how much wattage of a toe kick heater I would need? 1500 seems to be a common value. Is that enough to warm the room but not scorch feet standing in front of it? Is installation of an electric kickboard heater under the sink cabinet not recommended?

Radiant was nice as it heated up the surfaces rather than air that was just lost to the other rooms.

Overdone...please look 5 posts up at the link at the bottom of the post. You will find what you need to know about Cadet heaters.

You have a responsibility to any future owners in my opinion. You don't EVER want to see someone die in your home because of this. If it were me, I would have the electrician make sure the wires in the panel are removed so they can't accidently be connected again. I would also cut the ceiling panel wires so they can never be connected again. You might even go so far as to place a card where they were connected saying the panels are damaged and can never be connected. This whole thread gave me the willies. I could just see some future owner going..."Hey Martha...look at this! We have ceiling heaters!" And he hooks them up...

1500 watts is fine for that size room. 10 watts/sq-ft is a baseline for existing homes.
Don't forget, the kitchen rarely nees a lot of heat. Typically it will generate it's own and you will not even need the heater.
My in-law's kitchen is a bit bigger than your's and all they have is one hydro toe kick heater that does not even put out as much heat as most electric toe kicks.

"You have a responsibility to any future owners in my opinion. You don't EVER want to see someone die in your home because of this."

Thanks for the advice. Funny thing is, I told my wife the same thing last night. Told her it is our ethical responsibility to make sure things are safe even if we disclose them to the next owners because they might not remember when they sell the house down the line.

When I spoke of fixing the panels, I meant getting a licensed electrician to replace them, however, it seems that they aren't even manufactured anymore. At least, not that I can find.

I'm still getting an electrician and going to do all of the above--cut the lines, wire up the toekick heater and thermostat, plus replace my FPE breaker box. The note on the line to the radiant panels being hazardous is a good idea.

In that small a room I would use 750 to 1000 watts of baseboard heat. There are usually other sources of heat in a kitchen anyway. Put the heater(s) under the window(s) if you can.

From what I've read, it's hard to make ceiling radiant heat efficient because of losses upward. OTOH, having spent some time in South Korea, I rather like their hydronic floor heating.

This excedes the scope of this forum but I will ask here anyway since it is apropos to the direction of this thread.

I am considering installing the Stelpro model CH1502 toe kick heater. Here is the manual

http://www.iap-home.com/UserFiles/File/Stelpro/Manuals/CH1502_Cut_Sheet.pdf

My question is one of carpentry. How do I cut that hole (shown at the bottom of the above PDF file) out in an already installed cabinet? My jigsaw won't allow me to get within 1/2" of the floor or the bottom face rail.

hey overdone have you tried a sawzall with a long blade?

Honestly, I don't have any experience with a sawzall but my impression of that is that they are more suitable for demolition and cut quickly and inexactly. Would that be the tool of choice for this operation?

Yes.

Careful cutting reduces the inexactness and trim covers the rest.

How do I cut that hole ...

Hole saw chucked in a drill.

...or you can use a power jigsaw with a special blade that extends out past the front of the saw so that you can cut flush...or a keyhole saw (a small handsaw like those used for cutting holes in sheetrock)...

i would like to ask a question about the heaters in the like provided a few posts ago... the ones that do in the wall.

at 120v, i would assume that 1000 watts would require a 20A cct.

could 2 be run on the same cct? and controled by the same thermostat?

I believe the answer is yes, you can run multiple heaters from the same thermostat...provided of course the thermostat is rated to handle the current total maximum current.

By the 80% rule, a 20a circuit can supply up to 1,920 Watts' worth of heaters at 120 volts. Two 1000 Watt heaters would not be acceptable on that circuit.

However, 1000 Watt 120v heaters are often a special order item. Most fixed electric heaters are 240 volt. The reason is that a 240v 20a circuit can accept up to 3,840 Watts' worth. They can be controlled by one thermostat, provided that the thermostat is rated to handle 16 amps.

okay, so i want to put a couple of these (see link below) upstairs. its not possible to put 2 on 1 cct? even with it being that close to the maximum wattage for the cct?

and they say that they have a built in thermostat. can they be wired for an external thermostat?

Here is a link that might be useful: heater from home depot

It's not possible to put 2 on 1 circuit?

It's possible but it will be a code violation. That much is too high a sustained load for the circuit. You can:

• Use a 30 amp 120 volt circuit
• Use 240 volt heaters & 20a 240v circuit
• See if you can find a 750 watt heater for one of them
• Use a single 1500 Watt heater (cheaper)

I have never seen these heaters used with an external thermostat. The built-in one is considered a feature. These are typically used as supplemental heat for bathrooms and the like.