Starpooh- you are so amazing to do all of this work on this. I can't wait to check out the finished product. What about classifying it in terms of what was done-

For example-
REnovation included:
1. new cabinets
2. new appliances
3. new countertop
etc

OR: Renovation included
1. keeping old cabinets
2. reusing appliances etc

Some classification like this would allow people to compare apples to apples because a small kitchen could probably get re-done in top of the line appliances, cabinets, and countertops for the same amount that a HUGE kitchen could go cheap on everything. Atleast clarifying the scope of work would allow people to research a relative amount of money spent...

Just a thought. This is definitely a tough one. The difference in kitchen sizes makes this especially tough because one number may seem huge until the size of the space is defined and vice versa. The other option would be $/sq ft but that may require some higher math...

Then I received responses from kitchen owners who did not want to divulge the cost of their kitchen

So, if they don't want to, they don't have to. But we don't have to make the entire FKB less useful to accommodate them. I can't think of a single piece of information more important than budget, and some people are willing to share. Just provide the option of not filling in any of the fields, and let users include "No budget reported" in the search criteria.

Assuming there is space for this...

Add a check-off for "kitchen was part of a larger renovation project" [this affects more than budget--defines whole vision]
Add a check-off for "cost includes changes to roof, exterior walls, and/or basement"
Add a check-off for "cost includes excavation or other site preparation"
Add a check-off for "renovation includes changes to rooms adjacent to kitchen"

I agree with marcolo.

That's tricky, partly because even for people who are happy to share budgets, a $30K kitchen in one part of the country might be a $15K kitchen in another, and a small kitchen could cost far less than a large kitchen even if it's much higher end. And a $10K kitchen that's a facelift is very different from a $10K kitchen that was a full gut. Maybe have general categories for facelift [old cabinets], partial gut [new cabinets, counters, etc. but no major structural changes], full gut [everything out], and whole house remodel [kitchen plus additional rooms], since that seems to encompass most of the projects I've seen here over the years. Personally I think it would be useful to have a section for budget (under $10K---that's budget pretty much everywhere for any size space) and luxury (over $100K---again, that's high-end even in the costly markets), but in between those two there's a lot of gray area. People who didn't want to note the cost could always just leave it blank.

I agree with Marcolo also!

yes, you have it right & i also agree with marcolo!
i'm happy to share what i spent, since it might help others gage what to "expect" when they are doing their reno's.
perhaps posters can state what region they are from, as others mentioned costs vary in different areas.
i need to submit my finished kitchen, as soon as i'm done with the painting.
also, a section with regrets would be helpful but i think most will put that in there.

The region or state would be very helpful, as others have said.

Which brings up another point: Is there space/encouragement for people to mention specific contractors, tile showrooms, etc. they used and liked?

I agree with Marcolo and Artemis. People can leave the specific cost blank if they want but they should at least have to say what the scope of the project was like Artemis suggested.
Or, regardless of geography location, the kitchen owner knows if their kitchen was done on shoe-string budget or on a high-end scale for their area. So yes, $25,000 gets you a lot further in the South than New England but comparing your kitchen to other kitchens in your area, you know about what level of finishes you did. Of course, I don't know exactly how to put that into category. check off the box language. (Sorry.)

The region or state would be very helpful, as others have said.

Which brings up another point: Is there space/encouragement for people to mention specific contractors, tile showrooms, etc. they used and liked?

Thanks marcolo! I also agree with you, too, but did not want to embarrass anyone by including a "budget not selected" selection. (Would we assume over $200K if the owner of an obviously high-end kitchen didn't make a selection?) Perhaps it's best not to differentiate the cost of the high-end kitchens and lump them all into the same selection: over $100K. And yes, the question can be left blank. (The only required fields in the entire checklist are username and kitchen title.)

florantha - I was hoping that kitchen owners could somehow do the math to include only the cost of their kitchen, not their entire remodel. But I'll add a write-in box where users can explain what the cost includes.

artemis78 and brianadarnell - There is a question in the Basic Category about the scope of the remodel. Checkboxes are provided for "Kitchen Addition/Existing House", "Kitchen Refresh / Facelift", "Kitchen Remodel/Existing Footprint/All New Items", "Kitchen Remodel/Existing Footprint/Many Reused Items", "Kitchen Remodel/New Footprint", "New Kitchen/New House" and "Quick Renovation for Immediate Resale". So you could search for all Kitchen Facelifts under $10K by using both the Scope and Budget fields in the Extended Search function. (I just love this new extended search! Hope you will, too!)

I like the idea of the region/state but thought that many would not want to divulge that information. But again...it can always be left blank.

jillsee - Yes there's a section in the Additional Comments tab called Opinions. The text reads "Are you happy with your kitchen? Is there anything you would have done differently? What did you like/dislike?".

marcolo - There are lots of write-in sections for details like KDs, cabinetmakers, countertop fabricators, backsplashÃÂ supplier,ÃÂ etc. The text encourages users to include the location, too.
But, looking over the questions again, I seem to have missed a question about contractor. Good catch! I will include both a write-in for contractor name/location and also selections for both region and state (in case a user wants to only divulge region and not their state).

Have you seen all the categories? I'd appreciate feedback on all of them. I'm getting very close to finalizing the categories.
The current list of categories can be viewed in a test version of the FKB.
http://starpooh.com/test/
Login using userid tester and password tester. Then simply edit the kitchen to see all the categories and questions.

Here is a link that might be useful: Test version of the new FKB

Starpooh, forget what I said above. You might include these items in the "describe project" directions, though and ask people to omit the costs when calculating cost of kitchen.

I finally took the time to go to your site and look at the categories [which are embedded in the Finished Kitchens section under Search -- Extended Search subchoice, folks]. There's a lot here that will really help the search function of that website, Starpooh. Future renovators will sing your praises.

Thanks for doing this. If something of the old budget category remains, word it differently? "under $10,000" and "over 10,000 but under $25,000" perhaps? That way someone won't check both categories.

You might just want to put in one choice that says "our local costs were probably MORE/SAME/LESS than in other areas because _________"
This would allow people to type in region or rural or lack of access or whatever. Reader can do the factoring.

Budget: One of the problems with budget/cost of a remodel, in addition to those listed above, is that it can quickly become outdated. What cost $30K two years ago, may only cost $25K today. What cost $30K ten years ago, may have cost $50K five years later and $40K today. So, listing a cost doesn't necessarily help.

As to listing a state or region, state would not suffice since I know that in Maryland costs are all over the place, depending on not just what county you live in, but also what part of a county and even zip code. Now, you're getting close to collecting PII (personally identifiable information)...something I think we should avoid even giving the appearance we're collecting.

What I think might be better is to combine many of the above ideas:

Cost:

• Very Low(

• Low (>5K but

• Middle

• High

What was included:

• No change to cabinets

• Refaced/repainted cabinets

• New cabinets

• Walls taken down/added

• Doorways changed/added/moved

• Windows changed/added/moved

• Ceiling replaced

• Plumbing Moved

• Gas Moved

• Flooring unchanged

• Flooring replaced

• Flooring refinished (wood)

• All new appliances

• No new appliances

• Mix of old and new appliances

• Lighting added: recessed lights, undercabinet lights, pendants added, other

• Walls painted

• Ceiling painted

• DIY Painted

• Other item(s): _________________________________

For details on above, the rest of the form would suffice. People could then look at what new appliances were included and type/manufacturer (e.g., new refrigerator...but Liebherr vs Hotpoint or new range...La Cornue vs Hotpoint and gas vs electric vs induction) to get a feel for how the appliance impacted their budget.

As to including contractor names, etc. I also think we want to be careful what we do here... I think this is something that needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis, not have the information "immortalized" in the FKB.

@starpooh, I haven't been following the progress of the new FKB---those categories (and the extended search) sound great! Thanks for all of your work on this! :)

I do think geographic notes would be good too. I think you can put in broad regions (e.g., Northern and Southern California, Northern and Southern New England, NYC Metro, etc.) without divulging too much info on specific cities. When I finally get around to posting our finished kitchen, I definitely plan to include both our city and the favorite contractors we used, since I thought the sourcing info (on both supplies and people) was invaluable when others posted it, and I gained a lot of insight by emailing with people in or near my city about specific vendors, inspections, etc. that are area-specific. But I agree that the details don't necessarily need to live in the FKB; it could just be in the finished kitchen post. If someone sees my general geographic area, they could always email me with questions about contractors or other such things.

Just checked it out--it looks great!

One thing: I think the "categorize" bit needs a hard sell right on the front page. It's so important but I could easily see newcomers skipping it.

Personally....I don't usually care what people spent. Is that bad?

I get a huge kick out of the $1,000 makeovers and how great and creative they are, and also love to drool over the really high ticket ones just because they usually are so over the top.

As buehl said, the prices are easily dated. On the kitchen tour I went to earlier this month, one kitchen in particular really got me fired up....they called it a "budget reno"...it was $35k. To me...that was NOT budget. It did look like "budget" reno, but I don't know where they spent the money.

So maybe if you want to have the costs listed, make it optional, and do a wide range of prices, maybe by $10k jumps.

The way I used the FKB during my reno was like this...Today I'm looking for Pull Down Faucets...so I would look at all those pictures.....then the next week I might have been looking at single bowl sinks....and I looked at all of those.

Sorry that I don't really care about the costs. Maybe that is why I never ever set a budget for our reno....

Budget also connects with whether (and how much of) the tasks were DIY-ed or GC'd by the homeowner or handled by the GC directly.

In our case I'm expecting that we can actually do it all ourselves. And as a devoted DIY-er I'm hoping it will make a huge dent in the overall costs. We're recycling all our appliances, and starting from scratch in a new room, and building our cabs, doing all our own plumbing and electrical, painting, plastering, floor finishing, counter making, window-swapping out, etc., so I'll be unhappy if my costs get higher than 10K. But that will be an entirely new kitchen, not just a slight refresh as the 10K figure might suggest.

I really like the previous posters' suggestions of describing the "budget" by describing the tasks undertaken in the reno. That seems to cover the variability over time and location the best way. However, I realize that won't people with no skills and no idea what anything costs.

Your loyal and generous work on this project continues to wow me. The FKB is such a wonderful resource for everybody, and without your continued effort it would stagnate and fade away. Thank you so much!

L.

Why not just leave it up to the individual who is posting his or her kitchen for the FKB whether or not they want to tick / the budget category. If they donâÂÂt they donâÂÂt! Personally I wouldnâÂÂt mind itemizing costs on mine. I want to help those who are just starting and have no clue on pricing; I want to help them understand that even in DIY things can add up and how that happens. I hope they will walk away with a true understanding on what they could cut back on to make a budget by eliminating some of what I picked. Sometimes people need a gauge.

IâÂÂm also ok with N. E Florida or S W Florida and so forth or central. If people want to find you that bad a vague mention of an area or no mention of an area will not stop them. Very often the IP address is in the next county or if you are close to another state or country your IP address can show up there, or another town (mine does).

Starpooh you are the starriest.

Also with costs - some of us are doing a major home renovation and the kitchen costs may not be easily separated. Yes, I know how much my cabinets cost but I don't know the labor for JUST the kitchen. Also, if someone added space and had to add a full basement or big crawl space that cost would be much different from a slab.

I like the budget idea, as well as location. I'd definitely separate a "facelift' from a remodel.

So, for under $10,000 facelifts and remodels really should be separate, because in THEORY one can do a full remodel for that.

I also think a DIY section would be really helpful - for people who did at least 75% of the work themselves (as I am planning to do). Perhaps countertop install, electric and plumbing can be common exceptions.

As far as breakdowns, this actually seems to be a common problem - I've seen a few people tell me that they really cannot say the cost of the kitchen because one contractor did the entire house remodel, including kitchen, for one fixed cost.

Location: VERY useful! For example I live on Long Island, NY - here and in NYC a "budget" remodel apparently costs $40,000! "Average" is $75,000 plus (and MANY of those look like crap). I'm planning DIY, and PRAYING I don't go over $10,000. This, unfortunately, will exclude plumbing and electric (new space - must be hired out), and my vintage Chambers Stove. I'm also not including the new flooring because the new floors were installed by us and the $3,000 in wood covers both the kitchen/ family room and master bedroom. Also, we need new windows in the kitchen, and there is no way those will fit into the $10,000 limit. Basically, my KITCHEN budget will cover cabinets, counters and appliances.
I am planning to take my cabinet specs to a few local cabinet places to get actual quotes (even HD is WAY over $20,000), then I am 99% likely to go out of state for whatever I don't build myself. NY is just WAY more expensive for EVERYTHING compared to other parts of the country. I'm doing this just to prove to my mother (who guessed that CUSTOM solid wood cabs would cost $5,000) that I AM doing this whole kitchen for CHEAP!

I think good categories are:

Under $10,000 Facelift
Under $10,000 Remodel
$10,000 - $20,000
$20,000 - $30,000
$30,000 - $50,000
$50,000 - $100,000
Over $100,000

I think most people will fall into the $20,000-$30,000 and $30,000-$50,000 categories, but having them separate is very important for people on a real budget, because lots of people just CANNOT afford more than $30,000 even if $40,000 is a common budget.

I'm sure I'll end up in the $10,000-$20,000 category, and if I include the cost of my stove I'll end up in the $20,000-$30,000 range. Now I am very upset :_(
Reality Bites!

buehl ~ As always you hit the nail on the head! It truly doesn't make sense to add $$ to the higher budget categories since it may need to be updated in the future.
But I do like the idea of using various low-budget categories. I've added an additional category ($10K-$20K) to include kitchens such as brickmanhouse's kitchen (amazing full remodel less than $20K).

So this is how the budget category looks now:
Budget
Which best describes the cost of your kitchen?
If you'd like to itemize your actual cost please use section 13b. Additional Comments: Cost.(This is a separate write-in box)
~ Super Low (under $5K)
~ Very Low ($5K-$10K)
~ Low ($10K-$20K)
~ Medium
~ High

There is also a Year Completed category that can help with the math for older kitchens.

I'm adding new sections where users can specify New/Reused/Recycled for cabinets, flooring, countertops, etc.
So, using the Extended Search feature, you could search for:
ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ Budget= Low and Cabinets=New and Appliances=MixedOldandNew
But, if you wanted to find a kitchen with a lower budget you would need to run a new search:
ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ ÃÂ Budget=VeryLow and Cabinets=New and Appliances=MixedOldandNew
I hope that helps.

I've added Location selections that are somewhat general (US Census regions and divisions along with Canadian Provinces).
There's a write-in box for those who wish to include additional info.... say state, city or metro area.

About PII concerns: Fields that ask for any type of personally identifiable information can be left blank.
I'll make it a point to include "Feel free to skip this question."

One of the nice things about this site, as opposed to GW, is that any information a user provides can easily be updated or removed.
Just login and update your kitchen.

One more thing... I can also update any kitchens. An email is sent to me whenever a kitchen is added or updated.
So if a user provides TMI (too much information) I can easily modify it.

ewww sorry about that mess! I used a perfectly acceptable html character for a blank; it translated fine during the preview but ended up as a capital A with a circumflex. ugh.
Oh well. Hope you can still read it!