I think if you moved 6 hours away, even if for DHs job, you should do all driving. So stick with origainal CO, but then you do driving.

I can kind of relate to where the ExW may be coming from --- NOT to say I think you're being at all unreasonable, just that I might understand some of her behaviors.

On the procrastination -- I think that't a big part of what it is. She knows that going through the whole custody issue is going to be unpleasant, so she doesn't want to do it. She'd probably rather do anything else, so I suspect she's barely even looked at it before now. And since you've had to vary from what is written, I suspect she's thinking that the whole *written* deal isn't going to be all that favorable to *her* since whining and wheedling has seemed to get her what she needs anyway, and having something workable (translate: enforcable) in writing could pin her down uncomfortably. Plus, there's the added bonus of passive-aggressively pissing you off. That's just the fun part. She knows it's important, knows it will require a lot of mental and emotional effort to deal with, she doesn't want to get 'shafted'. That's why she wants editing rights -- I would. (Who wouldn't?)

At this point, you've got what's written -- or possibly better if she'll negotiate. So does she. She's got what's written, or possibly better, if she'll negotiate.

My advice is to just take a deep breath, let the issue drop, and see what she comes back with. Until she comes back with something in writing, then I wouldn't give *one inch* over what is written. You've already made it clear that you're willing to give her more time. Let her make the next step.

Thanks for the words of advice. As far as the move and the driving (don't know why everyone always wants to focus on that part...) There are NO issues on either end with making the drive to the halfway point, that is a mute point! We have all (my ex included) agreed to drive halfway and occasionally we drive ALL the way, again no problem there. The problem comes in that because of the distance we cannot get to the exchange point at the time specified for exchanges in the CO without pulling kids out of school every other Friday. This is NOT going to happen. Therefore we have had to "tweek" the times a little to accomodate for school and the drive home with school the next day. Because of this BM is continually finding all of this "extra" make up time that we "owe" her. When we first moved we all agreed that she would get additional time over Christmas break to make up the time she has missed (1 hour a weekend) for exchanges. When it is all added up, she actually gets more time (yes, she actually calculates it by the minute... so we have to also); We also offer additional days when SD has long weekends (in fact, did this weekend).

The reason for the agreement is not only to put in writing what is already happening (different exchange time/place) but to also try to get some control over some of the out of control issues such as BM's continual arguments that SD "cannot" do certain activities in the summer, even though she agrees that they are positive activities. Oh, and by the way... there is no custody issue in this agreement... just visitation clarifications!

Today when we met BM for her to pick SD up it was at the school for P/T conferences, so I was standing there along with my DD. My DH asked why she couldn't just come to an agreement and sign this so we could be done with it. BM said "what's the rush" (smug and snotty as usual); DH says, because you have already had this thing for 2 months now! BM says... so what? I have things going on that you don't need to know about and I don't have to answer to you... (???? he just asked why it is taking so long????); He then said "well, I really don't understand what you would need to edit since I have already given you everything you asked for"; she then smuggly smiles and says... well, *thanks* for being so patient.... I'll get back to you!

ARRGGHHH.... Okay, so after 2 months, how much longer do we sit on this? The main reason we are trying to work something out here is because of the ongoing problems we have with her over summer vacation and summer schedules. The only reason we are pushing to get this done and signed is that we know from experience that if she is not given a deadline and then an ultimatum of some kind (which DH HATES to do) then she will leave it hanging forever, then she will begin to demand whatever is in the agreement without ever officially agreeing to it.

Would it be more beneficial to take this to a mediator? What if she refuses to attend a mediation? We would even get a mediator in the town she lives in and drive there ourselves to make this happen.

"then she will begin to demand whatever is in the agreement without ever officially agreeing to it."

I don't understand why that would be a problem. What difference would it make if she had "officially" agreed to it.

Because then pretty soon we start having problems with her not returning SD after visits, making demands for even more time outside of the agreed upon times, making up all kinds of "make up" times even though she has had more than her scheduled time, etc. Every time DH offers her something that would be a benefit to her, she gets nasty, rude, and starts DEMANDING more or just plain tells him that she will do whatever she wants because it is her "right." Without a signed agreement and/or CO there is nothing to work with to enforce anything when it gets out of control and if need be the police have nothing to go by other than a "he said/she said". In our situation we HAVE to have a signed agreement.

I am fortunate enough in my situation with my X that I do not have to worry about this. I am able to make verbal agreements with him and we both know that we will stick to the agreement as agreed upon. My poor DH does not have that luxury!

I apologize but I didn't read the entire post, just the first few lines and here's what I get from just that.... XW wants to have control and keep a power struggle going.

Have you ever played nice? Just say okay... give her whatever she wants. She seems to want to fight (or your DH does) but it takes two to keep the fight going. If she keeps wanting to change it, I would tell her that she can put in writing what SHE wants and that is what you are sticking to. Eventually, when she realizes she has nobody to fight with, then it gets less exciting for her. You don't have to go to court to have a written agreement. As long as it's signed by both parties, it's an agreement. In some states they have to be notarized and/or filed with the court. Check with your state. Some people like or just get used to conflict so they keep it going. I don't know if that's what's happening in your case but it's one possibility. Good luck. (and I did look at the rest of the posts as I was writing this)

Yes... the more often my DH just gives her what she wants to avoid a fight (thus adding an additional week to the summer visitation even though SD's summer is already so full (she is 14) that it leaves my DH with very little to no time with her in the summer) the demands get worse and the XW makes even more comments about him being unreasonable and "not caring about SD's feelings!"

All we are trying to do is come to some sort of agreement between the two of them without taking anything to court. The issue is that this woman has lost more and more everytime it goes to court because of her unwillingness to cooperate or communicate. They went from joint legal to my DH having sole legal custody.

Yes, this should give us a clue not to try to work things out with this woman, but we continue to try for SD's sake. I know that XW is just trying to keep the conflict going and she gets a kick out of dragging things out for months and months (you can tell just by the look of smug satisfaction when they talk in person). She has been pushing SD to make a statement to a judge for YEARS about how she wants to live with BM instead of BD. Obviously, that hasn't work, but she is trying harder and harder over the past few years now that SD is at an age that a judge would take it more into consideration.

So... again... why do we even try to work with this woman??? Because we love SD and want the best situation for her.

Sounds to me like the exact reason you say you need a written and enforceable CO is the exact reason she doesn't want you to have it. As it is, she can get what she wants *without* being accountable.

How about asking your lawyer the following: What would happen if you were to draw up a request for a revised agreement that has ONLY the necessary minimum changes and file it with the court? Write your request so it is exactly like the current agreement except for:

1) A statement that distance and school schedules necessitate a change in drop-off and pick-up times from ____ to ____.

2) A clearly stated addition of exactly the amount of "make up time" that the revised pick-up and drop-off times takes away -- no "nice guy" extra summer and holiday time at all.

3) A statement that both parents agree that participation in extra-curricular activities is a good thing, and that changes to the schedule will sometimes need to be made to allow DD to participate fully. I'd suggest that if custodial parent can provide 3 weeks notice of a conflict, BioMom gets her choice of either the preceding or following weekend.

What would happen (other than ticking her off) if you abort the "try to work it out" phase at this point?

Sweeby, how would you reconcile your approach with OPs moving 6 hours away. As a CP, I wouldnt expect to move 6 hours away, and not be the one to have to make some sacrifices. Even if for a better job.

I moved 4 hours away from my EH for a better job and we do alright. Of course we get along relatively well. We even manage to have split custody where it works out that my son goes wherever he wants to when he wants to. If he wants to live with his dad, we work it out, and vice versa. It's what is best for our child. Some parents don't have that though.

It sounds like to me that winmom and her family are trying to make some sacrifices, but the XFH is not willing to cooperate. In that case, I'd do exactly what sweeby is suggesting. If I have to pay a lawyer to draw up papers to the tune of at LEAST $70 an hour (here anyways) you bet I'd be doing the same thing and filing them with the court that way there were no "conflicts" that could be questioned by the courts.

Who's to say the XFH couldn't file with her lawyer and say that they're not letting her see her children? It happens all the time and if there is no real documentation (legal) of trying to work this agreement out, she could end up with custody again and actually refuse to let the current CP and SM see the children. Or there could be ANOTHER messy custody battle occur.

Now which is best for the children?

The move doesn't seem to be an issue that is causing conflict. It seems like BM wants to be in control and my suggestion is to get an agreement in writing that is enforceable. If dad is the one that's being reasonable & willing to cooperate, then he could let mom write up the terms to her liking and sign the agreement. At least, then they would have something that SHE came up with so SHE can't argue or change it. He would know what to expect and it would make her feel like she has some control of the situation.

It's a power struggle and it takes two to keep it going. If you refuse to argue about anything, then it's no longer fun for her. If her goal is to phase dad out of the child's life, then she is making a mistake and that is probably why she keeps losing time. Going to court is expensive and if you can write an agreement, that's the best thing to do.

In our case, my SD's mom moved 150 miles away & signed over custody less than a month after we had a trial that cost us over $10k and gave both parent's 50%. Now, three months later, her daughter has settled down (she's had to have lots of counseling for initial behavior problems) She had to change school (and had problems the first month or so) & is just making new friends and her mom is coaching her to let mom have her back. She wants Dad to let her take their child 2 hours away, have to start a new school there, make new friends and sleep on the floor because she is now living in a one bedroom with her new BF. (The one bedroom is set up for new BF's daughter that visits and new BF has two sons that sleep in the living room) and mom doesn't think this is any problem.

It would be a wonderful if all bio mom's were created equally (and dads, and step parents, and children too) but they aren't and if all of the above would realize that what is best for children is to live without conflict, then some of these situations would be easier. After all, adults can get a divorce if there is too much conflict but kids can't. Their parent's are always going to be their parents. and studies show that the best thing for a child is to have the greatest community of people that love & care for them, whether it's parents, grandparents, step parents, other relatives, teachers or mentors. You wouldn't refuse to let your child go to school (or change schools) if they liked a teacher and said the teacher was more fun than you. at least I would hope not.

The bottom line is that the decisions should be based on what is best for the child. If a parent is "demanding" or "unreasonable" then they are not thinking about what is best for their child, they are engaging in a battle with the other parent at the expense of the children. If the other parent wants what's best for the child, they will cease fire and take the conflict out of their child's life. It may mean sacrifice and if the offending parent is willing to deny their child time with the other parent, the child will grow up to resent THAT parent, not the parent that lost the time. Eventually, the child will decide who they will continue to have a relationship with as an adult. If both parents keep the conflict going, the child is going to cut both of them out or end up in a very dysfunctional life of her own. And history will repeat itself.