See the thread here: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/step/msg1018562823602.html?39
entitled: "Is it me? what to do?"

It's about a more extreme version of what you're describing.

As far as getting your husband to stop babying her...for one thing, he's buying both of you more probs down the road if she grows up thinking she can push you around.

Dunno...seems like you're doing what needs to be done, and so is he, now, I guess? Try to set your time-to-change expectations in the year-to-2 years kind of range, maybe longer.

For the punishments, maybe try to explain the reasoning behind why you're doing what you're doing. I had been in the habit of carrying my 3 1/2 year old SS on my shoulders everywhere. I came home one day from work and found that the little SOB :) had chosen today's game to be 'give Mommy a hard time' -- all the way back from a long walk, he would throw himself on the ground, screaming at the top of his lungs, yelling 'stop hurting me' and 'stop pushing me' when in fact she was doing neither. So I told him afterwards that that was that -- no more shoulders except for emergencies. (Granted, a bit of an overreaction on my part -- you should always leave yourself room for escalation rather than going staight to the ultimatums.) But after that I stuck to my guns when he asked for the shoulders -- and I made a point of reminding him *why* each time. He knows why he isn't riding now, and doesn't raise a fuss when I tell him to forget it -- although he did at first.

This gets the kids in the habit of owning the consequences of their behavior. Similarly, when he's being punished, I explain to him (if he's not screaming his head off too loudly to hear myself talk) why he's in fact *choosing* to be punished by the actions he's taking. This can be taken too far -- you wouldn't want to encourage him to think they're responsible for everything bad that happens to them -- but as part of the wholistic parental package, I find it a very useful tool.

To tell you the truth, not-carrying has, I think, been more of a punishment for me than him. I really enjoyed carrying him places -- sort of reinforced the idea in my head that I was 'daddy'. Also, he's almost 40 pounds -- I've never been in as good a shape before or since. :)

Have you asked this question on the toddlers (I think) forum here? Seems like this isn't necessarily a step ques, but more of a regular parenting ques.

Couple of questions -- do you think your SO is doing a good job with her now? And do you think any of your SD's behaviors are either weird enough to warrant concern and/or spillover from her biomom's lousy parenting, or yearning for her mom? Otherwise, I think your situation is pretty normal.

Just out of curiosity...do *you* feel guilty about how your SO's previous marriage ended up? The only reason I ask is that you gave quite a bit more detail about the background than was needed to eval the prob. I apologize if this came out nosey or rude. Feel free to ignore.

Don't compare her to your kids. You will always find a way for yours to come ou on top. I always get mad when I hear stepparents complain about traits that a stepchild has. It is as if when you marry someone with kids they are automatically supposed to become the perfect person and be the epitome of what you want in your children. People are different. Personalities are different. As far as eating around the house. She doesnt know any better. No one ever told her not too. If her father wants to carry her why not let him. When we were little my sister used to sit in my dad's lap and watch tv. When she turned 9, the witch that my dad married told him he couldnt let her do that anymore. She still remembers that and she is 20 now. It still hurts her because she was such a daddy's girl. About the resentment, I feel sorry for her. It is not her fault, but you blame her. No matter how hard you try not to, she will pick up on that. You and your boyfriend need couseling to get over these feelings before you end up hurting her emotionally.

What can you do? She has more right to be with her Dad than you do if you are just his girlfriend. From what I can understand this is your home? You allowed her and him into your home and she's been there for 3 years? The situation will never improve unless Dad takes a hand in it. They are guests in your home and must abide by the rules of your home. If you do not allow food in other rooms for your family, this should also extend to the guests or before you know it - everyone will be abusing this rule. Her behavior may just be a reaction to her perceived negativity toward her. She's only 5 years old but I am sure that she can pick up on those feelings. Its instinctive to defend yourself when you are feeling attacked and her only weapon is her behavior. She probably is also feeling abandoned by her Mom (hard to write that word to describe that woman judging from what you wrote about her). I am heartsick for this little girl (height not withstanding). Your boyfriend needs counseling the most. He needs to get over his feelings of resentment and he needs to learn parenting skills. He needs to learn that discipline does not preclude love but actually takes even more love. Joe (Typist) is very right. It take more love to discipline, more effort.

I thank you all for your opinions and "advice".
I think that you all want to peg me as this wicked person, and I'm NOT. Yes, I accepted her into my home,and my family. No, I don't expect her to be perfect. I don't make it a habit of surrounding myself w/" perfect" people. Far as I know, they don't exist. We live as a family, and families have their ups and downs. I have sat my SO down and told him my feelings. He understood, and we've agreed to work through this obstacle.
When I posted my message, I THOUGHT that this was a site for SUPPORT, seems to me that I was wrong. Like I said I needed some advice, I did not expect to be made to feel worse than I already did.
By the way I was a stepchild twice, and rather than be honest about their feelings both my mom and my stepfathers acted like everything was just "peachy" when it wasn't. I made it a point of attending parenting classes when I had both of my children. I am a member of family support services and all "3" of my children's schools, but I am still human.

> I think that you all want to peg me as this wicked person, and I'm NOT

Eri: Everybody has axes to grind, you know? Why should this list be any different? If you browse through, you'll notice that I'm a blowhard, rosie *really* likes marriage, and brandym jumps all over anything that remotely smacks of 'evil stepmother'. We're not a bunch of professionals, we're just a bunch of guys. So you're getting the responses of a bunch of guys, which may or may not have a high poop-to-information ratio.

Lord knows *I* never shut up.

Brandy:
> If her father wants to carry her why not let him.

Couple of reasons: 1) If she gets carried everywhere, she'll turn into a couch potato (which I admit was start to happen with my SS); and 2) when she gets to be 20, is the father still going to be carrying her? Part of being en loco parentis is teaching the kids to do stuff on their own -- should a 9 year old not be able to tie their own shoes? (I'm making that example up.)

I'm betting the carrying is only a single example of the father's babying the child; otherwise why would eri bother to post to this forum?

eri33's SD has been living with her for 3 years, since she was 2. The BM (I'm guessing) has zilch contact. She effectively *is* her daughter, at least from the standpoint of rules in the house, and I'd bet from every other standpoint too, accept the 'replacement of affection' one. Since the BM (I'm guessing) has no contact, even that might not an issue -- my SS's dad been living halfway across the globe for the last year and 3/4 now, and calls once every 2 1/2 weeks or so. My SS doesn't bring him up all that much anymore -- and probably only does now because we make sure to bring up his dad every once in a while in conversation. Therefore -- her daughter, her rules of the house.

Granted, you need to eval what sorts of behavior you want to make a stand over. Holding her fork weird might not be worth it; nose picking may be.

And finally, like I said somewhere on this list before -- my SS enjoys hitting himself in the head when he's getting punished. Just because he enjoys doing it doesn't make it endearing. Just because a stepchild does something, doesn't make it a good thing to do. It could, in fact, be a *bad* thing to do, and step parents are allowed to tell step children to knock it directly off.

Otherwise, chaos ensues.

> She doesnt know any better. No one ever told her not too.

Well, heck -- isn't this what eri's doing?

Back to eri -- again, I apologize for my last comment in my first reply. However, I was just pondering why you were posting for advice when all we can really say is 'you need to have your SO back you up' and you're already doing this.

I apologize for lashing out, after all I DID ask for advice. Whether it was the advice I wanted, I got it.
Thanks JoeTypist!!! It's very true that her dad does baby her to the point of "ick" Last week, she had wiped her snotty hand across the cushion of the couch, and he told her "now that's a no-no" It seems that the more I try to teach her to be more independent, the more he wants to baby her. I understand that she is the baby, but if she is able to put her hands on her hips and tell both of us not to talk to her, or leave her alone...then she has moved past the "no-no's" My goal is to raise good people, not just good kids.
Gotta go 4 now, it's my SD's bedtime

Well, ERI, if you read my post "Is it Me .. What to do" ... you know where I stand on all this!

I'm with you ... a 5 year old is plenty old enough to use her own locomotion. Carry her now and then, OK, but all the time ... NO! Ridiculous! And yes, she should by now be way past the "no-no" stage. She's not a toddler, but you already know that, don't you?

My own SD, 9, has very annoying ways (including baby talk and acting like she's 3), which I am working on accepting for now and changing for tomorrow. But I am working WITH her Dad, who also recognizes the problem and wishes to guide her towards acting more like 9 than 3.
The first step is talking to your SO. You must jointly make rules which should apply to ALL the kids, not just yours. You both have to decide what is important and what's not. You have to decide what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior. And he has to work with you on this. Once you two agree on rules and consequences, either of you can do the discipline because there is no question or argument about the how's or what's. Now obviously, there will be many judgment calls for which you have no specific rule (like wiping snot on the couch!) but this would definitely fall under the "unacceptable behavior category!!

It's not easy, no. Raising someone else's kids who are totally different from your own, or who were raised in a manner in which you don't agree ... well, it's a hard thing to do. It gets frustrating, annoying, tiring. But be patient. That's what I'm trying to do. I close my eyes and inwardly count to ten (deep breath, deep breath!) when my SD does things like talking baby talk. Yes, I realize she's not mine. Lord knows if she were, she wouldn't act the way she does now! Oh, I know ... some of you guys will blast me with the "hereditary" stuff ... and yes, that's true to a certain extent, but many behaviors are learned, are they not?! Baby talk for example. How is it that a 9 yr old girl talks baby talk? When it's LEARNED from and ENCOURAGED by an adult, that's how!

And Brandy ... sorry, but I see a red flag with a 9 year old sitting in Daddys lap to watch TV. Whoa! WhatÂs wrong with sitting NEXT to him? Was that not close enough? And jeez, if your sister is still traumatized by this, sheÂs got more problems than her step-mother, for sure. Sounds like you and your sister were jealous of your step-mom stealing some of your dadÂs attention and neither of you quite got over it. I donÂt mean to be rude, but have you two ever considered counseling?

Most step-mothers are not evil, and neither are you, ERI. We just provide another dimension to our SKÂs lives. A perspective, personality and a voice which otherwise wouldnÂt have been there. There are good and bad, but most of us try and want to do good by our SKÂs. And sometimes those SKÂs are so jealous that they canÂt accept us, regardless of what we do. This is the most difficult job you will ever have.

Mom 2 4 whatever. SHe sat on my dad's lap maybe once every blue moon. She was a very small child. I didnt say she was traumatized. I said that it upset her because that was just the beginning. Yeah you know what we were jealous. WE were jealous that we were locked in our rooms after a certain time and when she and daddy wanted to be alone. Im not talking told to go there. I was sick one night throwing up. I was 11. I needed to go to the bathroom. My dad had been called to work. Guess what I got up and my door wouldnt open because a belt had been looped through so I couldnt get out. My sister and I did get over all that. We made sure our lives were better. We are so much better off without either of them in our lives. Our stepdad is our father. IT all comes down to that. Don't pull that couseling crap either. Im not going to spend my time and money for them to tell me what I already know. You also know nothing about me or my family so dont jump to such conclusions as that.

Brandy, you are changing your story now. These are your words:

"When we were little my sister used to sit in my dad's lap and watch tv. When she turned 9, the witch that my dad married told him he couldnt let her do that anymore. She still remembers that and she is 20 now. It still hurts her because she was such a daddy's girl. "

I'm really sorry if your step-mom treated you badly and your father allowed it to happen. Seems like I hit a raw nerve, and you harbor lots of anger, hurt and resentment. Regarding counseling, you may not have to pay for it. Investigate whether or not your employer has an EAP -- those generally cover 3-5 counseling sessions free, sometimes more if necessary.

ERI, The point to all of this is .... its not her fault. It's your boyfriend's fault. No matter what you do ... how many ways you find to stand on your head ... nothing will change until HE changes his parenting. It will eventually make you the complete bad guy and him the angelic Daddy if you are the one that requires certain behavior and he does not not only support it, but especially initiate the discipline and require certain behavior. BTW - she is not your SD.

Eri:

> Last week, she had wiped her snotty hand across the cushion of the couch, and he told her "now that's a no-no"

Welp, sounds like in his mind, she's frozen at the age that he left her with his biomom, if I remember your description correctly. Although I'm not sure why this would be, since she's been living with him (and you) 24/7 the last 3 years, right?

Up until just recently, my SS's conversations with his BD consisted mainly of his BD making animal noises at him over the phone, and my SS looking at the phone as if to say, "What up with this?" But it was more understandable in that case because the BD hasn't lived with his son since he was 19 months.

Soooo....maybe the thing to do is to get your SO to be involved in activities with his daughter that reinforce (for him) her age. Dunno....older board games like othello or checkers? Playing catch/learning to ride a bike? Seeing her interact w/other older kids (if she doesn't act like a child around them)? Reading her older-type books like maybe Julie of the Wolves? What do you think?

Brandy:

> You also know nothing about me or my family so dont jump to such conclusions as that.

Well, we know what you tell us, and we know the tone of your messages. You said "My sister and I did get over all that. We made sure our lives were better" -- this is the main thing -- that everything is ok *now*. If your physical situation is currently cool, and your past isn't throwing physical or psych roadblocks into your present, and you have no subconscious urge to recreate crap for one reason or another, then yeah, you can deal on your own time.

On the other hand, you seem really angry -- in pretty much all your posts. I wouldn't be surprised -- like you said I don't know you, but still -- I wouldn't be surprised if this leaks out in other areas of your life.

Rosie:

> nothing will change until HE changes his parenting.

I mostly agree. My partner's older son seemed to change drastically when he went to live with his BD for the summer and got a dose of different parenting style and different social situation (he went to live in guatemala for a month or so.) So oddball outside things -- and even changes within the child herself -- can change things around. But, yeah, if the SD stays with eri et al, and the SO refuses to talk the talk and walk the walk, then I agree eri's buying into poop come teenagehood.

> BTW - she is not your SD.

Unless the SO makes that clear to everyone in the family -- ie treating eri as temporary (tempor-eri?) or disposable, then I respectfully disagree, except in the legal sense.

Which is not to say that she's not going to get the "you're not my mom so I don't have to listen to you" line. In fact, things being as they are, I'd be surprised if she hasn't gotten that already.

Eri:

Something to consider. Like Rosie said "It will eventually make you the complete bad guy and him the angelic Daddy" -- being a step parent, or any parent, really, requires a certain juju, wherein we get the kids to believe in our "parental power" -- even though, really, we have about zilch power to control them. (This is the thing with teenagers -- can't control them, can't kick them out of the house.) So basically, if your SO doesn't back you up, he's sapping the intangible parental juju from you -- and it's hard if not impossible to get back.

One of the reasons I am angry now is because my sister and I have reached the age where we are starting to have children. My sister had a baby a year ago and I am due in May. When this happened a lot of stuff came out. My stapfather pushed for us to have more of a relationship with our father. He had 2 children from a previous marriage who had a mother who told them lies and practically brainwashed them into hating their father. When my sister had her son she tried to include our dad in it. SHe invited him to appointments and went to visit several times. He showed up for the birth 3 hours late and hasnt had any contact since. She called and did everything to get him to be a part of her son's life. I am now faced with the decision of including him in my pregnancy. I chose not to. Yes it has been painful because I have this child's wellbeing in my hands and it hurts that my father will not be there. My only consolation is that the man who actually cared about me, my stepfather, will.

About the couseling, I was diagnosed with depression when i was 13. I did the couseling thing. It did no good. I have good friends who a lot of them have gone through the same thing. I talk to them. I am a happier person today than I ever thought possible because I took out what made me sad and I dealt with it in my way.

Brandy, I wish I could give you a hug. I can't even imagine having a parent who is indifferent or doesn't care -- mine were happily married for 48 years when my Mom passed away last year. My heart goes out to you. I deal with this issue also, as my 17 year old's bio-dad is very distant, aloof and downright mean to her sometimes. Yes, it is a source of pain for her, but she doesn't let it color her world.

Is it possible that you and your sister are expecting too much from him? Showing up 3 hours late for a birth is not a crime, and I wonder if your sister gave him so much grief over it that he chose no further contact because of it. I'm not saying that IS what happened, just something to think about. Or, perhaps he is such a weak person that he lets your step-mom dominate him. He may not know how to stand up to people when something is important. Does this sound like your Dad?

For your own well being, you have probably made the right choice in excluding your Dad from your life, but please don't let that sour you on everything else. It sounds like you have a very loving relationship with your Mom and step-dad. Appreciate his presence in your life and tell him that HE is the true Grandfather to your child (and congratulations, too!).

PS -- ERI, sorry about busting into your post!

Yes my father is weak. His wife used his son against him. Threatening him at every turn that he will not be seen again. We were woken many night on the weekends we spent with them to screaming from her. I don't only blame her. I blame him as well because he let it happen. At first we were not upset about the 3 hours late, but then we found out why. My sister went into labor at midnight. He was called at 1 and got there at 4. We found out a week later that he was late because his wife was telling him she was coming too and bringing their 3 year old son. Daddy actually grew some courage that night and told her it was not a good idea. She came the next day and did everything she could to upset my mother.

I get so mad at a lot of stepmothers and soon to be stepmothers because I see my stepmother in a lot of these posts. They say things that she had said to me and my sister several times. I know what I went through and I dont wish that kind of pain on any child. There is a lot of jealousy in second marriages. Kids are a constant reminder that your SO had a life and a serious relationship before you. It is hard for a lot of people, men and women both, to understand the fact that just because they shared these life-altering moments with someone else does not mean that they do not love you and want to share the same with you. Those are issues that I feel should be worked out before you move in or even thing about getting very serious. When my stepdad was moving in my mom told him, I am not looking for a dad for my daughters. He realized this and he loved us as if we were our own without trying to change what we were. WHen he talks about us he called us his daughter. The word step is never mentioned. Being a stepparent is a hard job, but it is also hard on the kids and people dont always see that. They are so quick to say they are bad kids and horrible people. All stepkids are not bad just as all stepparents are not good. THe opposite is true as well.