I remember when you posted about this before. We all hoped the party scene would grow old and SD would come to her senses. Nothing, I guess?

Well, I am very sorry about this. Did your wife try to establish a weekly call time for SD? I thought I remembered something about advice to that effect via legal channels.

My stepson has also estranged himself from us. We (maybe foolishly) still pay for his cell phone just so we can see where he is. It points to Atlanta - we're in S. FL. He is uncomfortable being "gay" here and I fear fell into some sort of substance abuse as his behavior did a 180 - from great student to possibly failing out.

We are laying low, DH still tries to text him, but there hasn't been any contact on his end. From what we know, there's no job, no school, just living off his bf. We've been very supportive of his lifestyle, but I don't think he wants to be around us or his old H.S. friends and be considered 'gay.'

Anyway, if there's no mandatory phone call each week, try to establish one. Can your wife speak at all to her X? I guess he's doing his best to isolate your SD from you guys w/ the no rules, constant good time atmosphere. That alienation is mental abuse in my book. I'd like to still think she has some of the goodness in her heart that will help her wake up one day and realize that parenting isn't always about making the most popular decisions. It sounds as though you were both fair to her. Do you regret any of the decisions you made? If so, try to speak to her about them; if not, reiterate that it is important for kids to learn that inappropriate behavior does have consequences. I mean, what lessons is her BD actually teaching her? If things get tough here, move and pretend like it didn't happen. Is this Hakuna Matata from the Lion King for goodness sake???

Good luck, keep posting,
Dana

My daughter did that three years ago, shortly after graduation. She took off after a minor disagreement with my DH, her stepfather who'd raised her for 10 years. And she used to tell her teachers that she had a better relationship with him than with me, her bio mom. Who knows why some kids do these things. I've had a long-distance "relationship" with DD since then, but I don't feel the trust and warmth I did once.

I think its because they have this "unmet need" from the other bio parent.If they have spent all their lives without them,and the ooportunity arises to re-establish that relationship they will almost always try to re-connect with the absent parent in the hopes that they could fill the void that was left by their abandonement.But sadly,with time they usually realize what kind of people they are and see for themselves.Im reminded of the story of the "prodigal son".....If they were good step-parents and treated them with love,in the end they will always come back.

Thanks for your comments and please keep them coming. My wife and I have so little perspective on this odd situation with SD that every comment and point of view really helps us.

So far we are not pushing any communication with SD, feeling that this is some sort of a rebellion thing (among other emotions), and that if we try to hard to force communication with her it will just push her farther away from us. If SD feels that she is somehow breaking free from her loving and protective parents (feeling more grown up) then she will hopefully come back to communicate when there is seemingly nothing to run away from. I have to believe that after some more time the glamour of livng in a big house in sunny Florida will start to fade, especially when the inevitible conflicts start with the biofather.

If any of you have any experience or idea as to what in the world is going on here, we would like to hear your thoughts. If SD has indeed been "brainwashed" by biofather to believe that we were somehow "the problem" in her life, and that biofather is the generous (supposedly "loving") one with the big ticket toys, how do we approach this issue?? We do believe that SD was poisoned to think very negatively about us, and that she is being told by her insecure biofather to avoid contact with us. How does one handle this? Wait it out?? Or discuss it directly when communications eventually is regained??

Thanks for you comments and support!

Adolescent girls are really, really hard. Even the best of them seemingly turn into 'Regans' overnight ;)

I would say to wait it out, and not bring it up again unless she does. The best you can hope for is that the good job you did raising her is still in her heart, and someday she will reestablish a relationship with you and her mom. It may even be that she is too 'proud' or embarrassed to admit that moving was a mistake. Just let her know that you love her and the door is always open.

Like i said in another post-Looking back now,i realize how self-centered i was when i was a teenager.It was like the whole entire universe revolved around "me"!

I put my parents through hell once i hit 16.I got mixed up with the "wrong crowd" and did alot of stupid things.To this day i really regret alot of the things i did to my parents,and what i put them through.I thank god that i had parents who always had open arms and welcomed me back into their lives.It took a while for me to "grow up" and settle down.I guess what i'm trying to say is,its a really difficult age for some kids...because in reality they are "still kids" growing up.Looking back now i realize just how stupid and immature i was at 16.I was a totally different person than the one i am today.
Both my parents were married and remained married until my dad passed a few years ago,so it wasn't a "broken home" or anything.My parents were very overprotective and although i can understand "now" why they were back then, i just wanted to experience life on my own.Like weed30's comment about feeling too "proud" or embarressed to admit you made a mistake.I remmember feeling exactly that way a few times.It made it harder for me to call my parents because i knew they had been right and i was wrong...and i didn't want to have to hear:"we told you so..."But life has taught me alot and unfortunetely some very hard lessons that i could have avoided had i listened to my parents advice.Eventually i got "it" and i realized how lucky i was to have the kind of parents i had.She may be stubborn like i was,having to learn the "hard way"(like my mom always said)

I agree with waiting it out, and not bringing it up again unless she does and you can continue to send her emails or letters just to let her know that you "miss her" and love her.

Thanks for all of your responses.
My wife and I agree that waiting this out is our best approach at this time with our daughter (my stepdaughter). We are very concerned that her biofather, given that he is the type who has always had to "win" at all costs with even small things, will keep our daughter away from us and encourage her anger at us in any way he can. Several times our daughter has come to our neighborhood (in VA flown in from FL) to stay with her boyfriend and the girlfriend, and each time SD stayed with these people at their homes, never stopping by to see us or contacting any of us or her extended family in the area. We feel certain that biofather is trying again to be the "cool" parent allowing her to do this and that he is encouraging her to not contact us. Great. We are concerned that a very long term estrangement from us is being firmly placed here and there is nothing we can do about it. Biofather wants SD to bascially build her life in FL and forget about us. This way I guess that he "wins" as he must do.

My personal concern is that as the "non-biological" parent, stepdaughter is blaming mostly me for her "dissatisfaction" living in our home, when it was her biofather that was always calling her to "promise" the big ticket toys and the fantasy life with him in FL (she had to move of course to have any of this stuff) that distorted her thinking, attitude, and expectations. This was the real cause of her anger, not our very normal home. Why am I the one to be "hated"?? I just don't get it. There is no basis for her "hate" of me, except the fact that her biofather has been for years telling her how "terrible" I am. This is nonsense, and I loved her as my own daughter, however she decided to ignore me when in the teen years. I just feel that SD will get caught up in this poisoned thinking and may never recover.

I am so sad that this only daughter (stepdaughter) I raised from the age of 5 has abandoned both her mother and me, is totally estranging herself from us, and that this may very well go way into her adult life far beyond the teen years with biofather manipulating with money and toys. Forcing communication with SD will just push her farther away from us and give "ammunition" to her and biofather to turn things expressed aginst us, as is their pattern.

We are looking for hope where there appears to be none.
Thanks for your comments. We really appreciate it.

Hansteve, I feel for you and your wife. I am a stepmom and I feel my adult stepkids dislike me and have disengaged themselves from their father by using me as the reason. I feel the bio mom has alot to do with it and I get so sick of the whole thing. I feel sorry for my DH and feel sad for him that he has such selfish manipulative adult stepchildren who would listen to their mother and not look at the full picture. I feel they are resentful of me and never really wanted to except me. They want their dad's pension and money and with me in the picture they feel will not receive it. Because with his pension when he married me everything became mine and the bio mom knows this and I am sure she told the kids.

In your case who knows all the hurtful things bio dad has said about you and placed in your SD minds. Try to keep your chin up and just maybe some day she will grow up as see the truth. Thats what I hope and pray for everyday. Remember your not alone and many others on this site truly understand how you feel and share your hurt.

I absolutly agree with weed30. I am only 24, I've been a SD since I was 5. I too had a moment when I moved out of my mother's house. It took me awhile before I overlooked my pride and stubborness and moved back in. The grass was not greener on the other side. But, with the "country club" lifestyle, your SD might see the grass as greener. Being not too far away from where I was at 17, I remember all too well what was important to me at that age, seems like nothing to me now. Girls that age are very selfish. It was something that I just had to grow out of. Studies show that a brain at that age is still not fully developed in the area that helps you make rational decisions. Crazy Kids! Good Luck.....

One interesting additional note here.

When our daughter moved out in early January my wife and I were extremely hurt, sad, and angry at her decision, especially since the secret plan to have the rowdy girlfriend move down also was uncovered to our complete disgust and amazement at the last minute. As a way of trying to move on, my wife dismantled our daughters bedroom and cleaned it up, removing all stuff off of the walls, taking the bed apart, etc., a thorough cleaning. Her room was a mess. Anyway, unexpectedly our daughter came back for a "visit" 3 weeks later (with no advance warning) for 3 days over a long weekend supposedly to continue to pack up her stuff, as this was the deal she made with biofather who paid for the airline ticket to come back for this visit. SD was very upset that her room had been taken apart and my wife said "well, you moved out." SD slept in the guest room and spent ALL of her time with her boyfriend coming back home late each night, which clearly was her only goal for this visit. SD spent no time with us during that weekend. No packing took place, it was really just a way to get back to see her boyfriend, that was clear. Biofather must have been surprised when she returned to FL with no packing accomplished, empty handed.

Anyway, I assume that SD was upset that her room was "touched" and dismantled and I am sure biofather took full advantage to make this as negative as possible interpreting this as "see, they don't want you any more." I can just hear him going on about it, cementing her decision to move in with him.

This was unfortunate however her room was a real mess and smelled. Did we really mess this up (dismantling her room and cleaning it) and inadvertently send a wrong signal to SD, or was it OK? After all, she did move out against our advice. For the record, our advice was to stay with us and complete her Junior year at her High School and then live with biofather in the summer.

What do you think?

Well, yes, I'd say it was an unfortunate coincidence that your daughter came back to find her room dismantled. I could understand your wanting a thorough cleaning done, and I probably would have done the same myself, but I would have left the bed in the room and all the things (posters?) on the walls. It must have been a shock to your daughter to see that she no longer had a room of her own. I think that sent the wrong message. Can you put everything back and use that as an occasion for another contact, saying you realized it must have unnerved her to see everything in her room gone, that you'd made a mistake, you really want her to feel she has a room to come back to, and let her know that it's there for her whenever she wants it?

I've read your notes in the past and feel the deep sadness in your words, and wanted to tell you that I hope your daughter returns to you one day.

Ann

The focus seems to be on mom & stepdad's pain, caused by this young woman growing up & making her own decisions, & the focus on the daughter centered on their inability to control her.

She's 17 years old, an age at which leaving the nest is normal (& she hasn't joined the circus, she just went to live with her dad).

& the objection to her living with the dad seems to be that he has too much money & that he likes to 'play the winning game'.

Even if her dad is fully engaged in 'the winning game', it sounds like you & her mom are playing it to the hilt as well, & adults playing a game will not facilitate harmony with a growing-up, for all practical purposes grown-up, offspring.

When she wanted to go live with her dad, you & her mom tried strenuously to prevent it, even going so far as to tattle to her friend's parents.

When she did return "home", it was to find her room...gone.

nothing like eradicating evidence of a person's existance to make her feel loved, wanted, welcome, warm...

Cleaning a room is one thing, but getting past the pain of having a child defy your will doesn't include dismantling her belongings & removing any evidence that she belongs there.

Not only does that sound more like anger & revenge (maybe punishment for not allowing you to win?), but it left her with guess what?

*one* home.

in Florida.

Let go.

You can't stop people from growing up, you can't keep them from making choices with which you disagree, & you can't make them love you by thwarting their desires.

Sage advice I once heard from the mother of a father whose son was removed from his life (long time ago, before there was such a concept as father's rights):

"You can fight now, but you can't win, & that means you'll lose.
The day may come when that child comes looking for you. Keep your number in the phone book."

In other words, let go, but be available.

& I my own self, if I wanted her to return, would put that bed back together & arrange her room like it was before it was eradicated, & I'd send her an apology.

& I would bite my tongue completely off before I said one negative thing about her father or her life with her father.

Bio-dad sounds selfish and controlling. When DD gets tired of having her life controlled, she may come back home.

Hi, I appreciate all of your comments.
I really need to set the record accurate here with sylviatexas comments. I do appreciate your point of view.

Here are the facts, in no particular order with no defense in mind.

Biofather:
Single, no girlfriend, no relationship for 10+ years (from his parents)
Physically abused Biomom multiple times before divorce (black eyes, etc)
Pulled family into bankruptcy before divorce
Refused to pay child support for first 5 years of daughters life.
Has a long arrest record which is mostly arrests for assault up until a few years ago. (have copies)
Has been threatening Biomom to "sue" her and "take your home away" in phone calls and emails (we have many copies)
Rarely sought contact with daughter startingat her age of 13. Secretly plotted with SD in 8th grade to move her into his garage to live in small home in FL with her own "door", TV, Etc. We uncovered the plan and mom said no to the move for obvious reasons.
SD told that her Stepfather cannot tell her what to do in home and she was to "completely ignore" Stepfather cause he is a "wierdo." (from SD)
Sends emails to Biomam copying SD telling biomom she is a "terrible parent" and is responsible for ALL of SD problems. (we have copies)
Invited unrelated 17 yo girlfriend (daughter's girlfriend) to live with him and SD at FL home (and go to school there). No parental supervision provided for 17 yo girlfriend. Just come "hang out" with SD and me in my home. Okay?
Sends Biomom email stating he is "now retired" at the age of 44 (from pizza carrier job) and he will stop chid support payments since she "cannot garnish him if he has no income."
Buys "country club" home in October of 2006 (how, who knows?) when daughter is well into 11th grade and asks her to move immediately and leave her friends, school, where she was in the school play (major goal for SD). When girlfriend was now invited to live in FL, SD says I will move now. SD's 17 yo girlfriend move wwith her was completely secret from us in planning to let daughter move. When Biomom objected to girlfriend moving into this unsupervised situation girlfriends parents agreed and then said no to their daughter (this family had money problems and this was a rent free way to save money they told us).

I can go on and on without even trying. There is a big pattern here with biofather. He was always secretly planning with SD to do things, telling us very little or complete opposite details until things happened. He was always running us down to SD.

Biomom:
Single parent until SD was age 5.
Went back to school to earn an RN in nursing. Has RN, works as a nurse.
We struggled to purchase home and provide SD with her own room, bathroom, etc.
We paid for ALL health care, summer camps, school expenses, everything.
Never sent angry emails to biofather. Very polite (really).
Never had secret plans with daughter.
Sent photos, grades, reports to biofather.
Would not respond to the angry threatening emails from biofather because she did not want to fight.
Never limited sd contact with biofather.
Encouraged daughter to phone biofather, etc.
Went on with her life and did not fight or threaten biofather. Successfully remarried.
Is often afraid to contact biofather due to previous physical assaults and threatening emails that are numerous and common to this day. Poor communication with biofather.

Stepfather (Me)
Accepted responsibility for raising and helping SD.
Did not want to or try to replace biofather.
Encouraged SD to have a "great" relationship with biofather. Yes I did.
Due to limited child support, took care of most of step-daughters expenses since biomom's nurse position is part time and low pay for DC area. All OK.
Never sent any angry emails to anyone.
No troubles with the law, no arrests.
Had to endure very hostile attitudes in last few years from SD when she returned home form FL visits. SD would settle down some after a few weeks.
Endured "ambivalence" from SD over last 4 years and kept calmly doing for her as was required to help.
Drove SD to and from school often due to transfer to a better school SD wanted to go to.

I believe that we were good, loving, stable role models who did NOT try to manipulate our daughter with promises of big ticket toys as biofather has done.

We did support our daughters decision to move in with her father without trying to control her or punish her. When the secret move with (very hard partying, yes!) girlfriend was discovered we knew that we had been lied to and deceived again. I truly believe that it was honest and right to contact the girlfriends parents and tell them of our concerns and objections to this live in situation in FL with all of the secrecy involved. No tattling was involved. Responsible parental communication.

When we got back to the original plan, SD was then free to move of course. Are we not allowed to be hurt and concerned? Am I as a loving Stepfather not allowed to care so much? These are just the facts. Where are we so wrong here?

I hope you can see that we are hurt and worried that our daughter will truly be at risk with her biofather. This is her choice, and she made it. Please try and see our side. We did nothing in secret and we are not trying to hurt our daughter in any way. My wife was grieving and felt that the stink and total mess in daughters room had to be cleaned up. She did leave all of the furniture in there, with bed frame temporarily taken apart for cleaning. Guess biomom should have left posters on the wall. She never realized it was so important. We have no motives here. Just sincerely worried for obvious reasons.

That is a quick summary. I respect all opinions.
Perhaps as a Stepfather I am not allowed to sincerely care for my beautiful SD. However I do and it hurts to see her in a situation that is potentially harmful to her. Thank you for listening.

bump

hamsteve, as a stepdaughter to a step dad, my SD is great, he loved my mother and met alot of my needs for a dad in ways my BD never did, but with all that went on when my parents divorced, there was still a place in my heart for BD. No, he didn't DESERVE it, but this is the power the absent parent has over the child. I always wondered what our relationship would be like if it were unhindered, and romanticised it. I realised that what he was giving was not the best, but I had hope, and it took years to accept that he was simply unacceptible, and I had to let him know it, when that time came.

Now for your situation, does your daughter know of the nature of the relationship between her BM and BD before they split, i would assume that if she were aware of the abuse, as a female she would want little to do with him.

Also it doesn;t take alot to offend a teen, so I don't believe that this situation will continue far into adulthood, one day she WILL need her mother, and when she reaches out, please do not judge her or bring up how she left or anything about BD's house.

It seems that most of your hurt is because of your own sense of entitlemant to her love, which her BD doesn't deserve, but guess what, she will have to find BD out on her own, and come to her own decisions cencerning her adult relationships. The sense of love a child receives from anyone is not easily forgotten, it comes with a sense of security which BD did not instill in her, YOU DID.

When she is in trouble, she will come where she feels most safe, just don;t remind her of the past at that point.

And as hard as this may be to accept, especially due to the circumstances surrounding her leaving, I have to agree with sylviatexas, let her go. Have confidence in what you gave her before she started making her own choices for her life, and continue only in the hopes that the opportunity to mend things WILL COME UP.

Go on vacation or something, your wife had the right attitude, Step daughter chose to leave, clear her out, she is in the care of her BD, her choice, so move on without her for now. By the way, contimuing to wonder about BD winning, and what he is using as power to keep her from you, is to reduce you guys to exactly what he wants from you right now. He cannot win if he is not even a thought, so stop making him soo important in your own lives, HE DOESN'T DESERVE THAT.

But, she is still a kid, i think that this situation will change once she grows up.