Question: did you see the screens in a showroom? Are they any different than what yours are?
Secondly, rather than just point it out to your contractor, a representative of the dealer and the manufacturer should see what your concerns are. There are extruded screen frames available but few manufacturers go that route because of the additional expense. You have options but you may have to pay for the upgrade.

I am a bigger fan of extruded. That is true.

I think I probably know who you are referring to with the screens and while it has been a source of frustration for me as well, I can honestly say that I have only have a couple inside of 10s of thousands of windows windows where the screens were an issue.

I am sure management is reading that and probably bookmarking my own statement to use against me but is appears to have not been problematic so far. The extruded section of the lift rail on the screen take a brunt of the abuse and seems to do just fine.

I appreciate your feedback though and hope that it does not fall on deaf ears. I would love to see them incorporate this and even as an upgrade option should the dealer choose to opt for it.

They are the same screens that were on the sample, we just never would have thought a screen was important. The screen frames bend too easily and i am sure this window company is well aware of this issue but simply does'nt care; its a way to cut corners and save money. Our contractor has been very good and i can see he is embarrassed . He is going to see if a local screen company can fabricate " extruded screens" ( i guess that means its strong) and fit them into our windows.
What else did they cut a corner with?
This is supposed to be a " high end window" and for them to cut a corner on a screen is a red flag in my view, no other window company my husband and i were recommended by the guys on this site had a screen frame like ours. I am regretting my decision. This is akin to a mercedes using hubcaps .
For those of you who highly recommend this window company, you really need to have a long talk with them and what should be expected in terms of quality. This is totally unacceptable. Mentioning the company name will surely get their attention but out of respect for my contractor, i wont do that.

This post was edited by lanagram on Tue, Oct 28, 14 at 8:10

Definitely empathize lana, but unfortunately you are in the VAST minority. To look at it from the other side, would you prefer that they skimp on something that is relatively insignificant to 99% of customers, or something that will actually affect the lifespan or performance of the unit? Don't know about you, but I'll take that Mercedes with hubcaps over a Yugo on 20" alloys.
Everyone wants to have a top flight product but pay a mid-range price. To keep the price competitive decisions have to be made, and again, better to be on "unimportant' items than something structural. Not an excuse, but just as with most things in life there are tradeoffs.
I'd also add that there is a fair distribution of screen quality (material and assembly) across manufacturers that does not always correlate to product quality or price. Plenty of companies use roll-formed screens, and plenty use extruded. I suppose if more people are dissatisfied such as yourself, things may change at some point.

Well, all of the other top quality brands we looked at seem to make certain everything is made with sturdy parts.
To respond to your statement regarding hub caps and Hugo's, its more than just the hub caps. A smart company would never let hub caps go on their high end model; never. To me its plain foolish,have no choice but to live with me decision.

Screens? Of the 28 windows in our home - we have screens on 6 of them. Otherwise we turn on the A/C.

@lg, what are the problems that you are having? I prefer extruded screen frames, but as KG stated above, there are many products from low to high-end that use roll formed screens (Marvin Integrity comes to mind), and do so generally without issue. Screen frames are rather thin regardless, so most times that I see an issue with a flimsy screen it is when the units are fairly large, which results in what may be perceived as "flimsy" regardless of roll formed or extruded. I do not mean to minimize your concerns by any means, I would only suggest that your expectations be tempered as to what a "stronger" screen frame may be able to accomplish. I'd also say that while it is a more important factor for some folks than others, I'd hesitate to judge the quality of a window based on the screen. For better or worse, it is a bit of an afterthought when it comes to engineering a great window.

It seems to me that both the contractor and the manufacturer did all they could do, which is to provide a sample window to look at before making the purchase. It's ultimately the customer's responsibility to carefully examine the sample window to make sure that the elements they deem essential are included.

You said "no other window company my husband and i were recommended by the guys on this site had a screen frame like ours", which makes me wonder why you chose the window you chose after seeing a sample that clearly had the roll form screen frame?

Wait a minute here. You are badmouthing the installer/company and saying

"Are you serious ! How a company with the reputation this one has use such a low quality screen makes me want to pull hair out of my head. We paid a lot of money for this project and this is something i wouldnt expect. "

But yet you admit it's the same product you looked at in the showroom?

This is a clear case of buyers remorse, plain and simple. You didn't do your research, got what you ordered and now want a product you didn't select. That's nobody's fault but your own and coming here does nothing to fix it. Why should the company give you anything when they delivered exactly what you bought and paid for??

I'm sure there are probably higher cost items that do what you want, but that's not what you selected.

@lanagram: I'm 65... but you sound really old :)

The screen construction really bothers you that much?

Nothing's going to management unless you name names.Many fine Mercedes came with Steelies.

Last response. I dont care how long someone looks at a window sample, there is no way anyone can tell the screen is weak until you use the window a few times. A screen ismt something you really think about and thats probably why a screen was one of the things they decided to get cheap with.
Even my contractor admits a screen is not something anyone really mentions since most focus on energy efficiency. Its extremely disappointing . There is absolutely no excuse for it,

It isn't something MOST people think about, because they work and the vast majority of people are satisfied and don't want money spent on features they won't use.

I'm still not even understanding what the concern is - you keep saying the screens are "weak". Do you mean the rigidity of the frame to torsion is weak? How many times a year are you removing these? Every window I've used have pretty "flexible" screens - you just take your time and be careful. Once they're in place I don't see how it matters much at all.

If you mean the screen material itself is "weak" I'm not sure what you're looking for.

If it's something else concerning you

I am extremely ticked off because the SCREENS BENT and my contractor had to come by twice and bend them back into shape although there is now am indentation in the screen frame. The slider window screen frame bends when you open it. The double hung frames were problematic as well and my contractor bent that back also.
. So yeah, I'm ticked off a bit and have every right to be. This is expected on a lower quality window not the ones i paid for.
I find it hard to believe that you fella's dont view this as a big flaw, i just dont.

I guess i'm supposed to be warned that i need to be extremely careful with the screen because its made cheaply. I dont think so.

Screens aren't cast iron. Of course you need to be careful when installing or removing them. Not sure how an indentation in the frame is the end of the world, but the screens themselves can be replaced. I guess I'm saying adapt now that you know the limits of them. At least here in the north, we put them on and leave them on, so it's not like they're being moved a tremendous amount. If you take them off annually, then just be careful.

In the end I doubt this will bother you as much as it is now. Best of luck.

Hopefully the contractor can get you fixed up with some full screens.

Feel free to email me directly with any questions.

Our contractor is a very nice person and i would recommend him. He is going to find us a local company that makes extruded screens and try to have them custom fit our new windows. We are paying for them, its not the contractors fault.
Again, i should not have to do this after purchasing a higher grade window.
Thanks for everyones input and concern.

I am getting ready for a large purchase and would like to know who you used so I can due my due diligence and research I currently have quotes from Champion, Pace, and local company Dan Fuller but do not know the brand of windows paper work is home

lanagram,

Please email me with the manufacturer and let me see what I can do on my end of things.

enovotny@windowsonwashington.net

I know most of the manufacturers and can probably help out.

Eric

Forgive some of the more harshly worded posts lg.
What is your primary complaint, ie: what function is it that you are having issues with? My main reason for asking-- as I mentioned previously-- is that there are some limitations to what can be expected from a screen in general. My fear would be that you get custom made units and they still do not meet your expectations. Sometimes other issues such as the windows being installed to tightly or other factors can contribute to problems.

My primary complaint is the screen frames bend when you operate them. Not all but some did. When the contractor removed them and attempted to bend them back, i held them and was shocked at how weak they felt. When he reinserted the screen he had to be very careful not to bend them more. Our older screen frames certainly dont require that kind of focus.
We had windows on our sun porch replaced 6 years ago with a mid level vinyl brand and wanted something that looked nicer. Thats why we chose the brand we did along with recommendations on this site.
Anyway, when we remove the screen in our mid range windows on the sunporch and compare them to the screens on our new windows, their is no comparison. The screen frames from the older sunporch windows are much more solid and sturdy than the screen frames on our new windows and its very noticeable. It should be the other way around.
Again, why would they use such a weak screen frame when they clearly know they are as weak as they are. Its disappointing.

Lanagram,

Your sunroom windows have an extruded screen frame and your other windows have a roll formed screen.

I can't recall and issue we have had with a roll formed screen from customer usage but we have had them get damaged in handling.

You have my email above if you would like me to ask about some new screens for you but I haven't received any emails.

Can't hurt to ask.

Perhaps a full screen would give you a satisfactory solution?

I dont want any of that company's screens, whether its full or half. Their screens are too weak. We are getting custom extruded screen frames. The screen company said it can easily be done and the cost isnt too bad.
Washington windows, i do appreciate your help.

This post was edited by lanagram on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 19:22

Full screens are normally a flange style mount in many cases and therefore extruded.

Just trying to help.

Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here lana, but its becoming more difficult as people attempt to help you but it seems like you don't want to hear it. If your screens are bending when you operate them you have other issues going on here. We don't even know who the manufacturer is here, so whether its a window that I love or hate is irrelevant. Screens do not make a window, not by anyone's criteria. They don't make a window last longer, perform better, or really serve much function other than to stay in place and block insects. I don't know that I've ever heard anything so ludicrous in my entire life to question the quality or integrity of a window based on the screen. This isn't even like the hubcap analogy, this is using plastic valve stem caps instead of metal. Perhaps you got a good window or perhaps not, but I promise you that in 10-15 years you will not be making that determination based on the screens, it will be whether or not they are leaking air like a sieve, have glass seals dropping like flies, and warped and bowed frames.
I'm sorry for being frank, but let's get a grip here.
If i were you I'd take widows on washington up on his offer. If this window has an extruded full screen as an option I'm sure it will be a better solution than something cobbled together by Geppetto at his shop down the street.
Huge props to your contractor for his patience working with you on this. I don't think you'd get the same response from most.

Karateguy
When i operated their slider window after a week, i couldnt close the screen because it bent as i was attempting to open it. I am not a very strong woman and a screen frame should not bend that easily, period !
My double hung was also slightly bent as well. I called my contractor who came over and removed the screens and saw they were indeed bent. He basically admitted the screens were not what they should be and they should be made stronger . So, after he removed the screen you could see and feel how weak they were. Thats when i said, "oh dear, all the money i paid for this window and they provide us with such a weak screen". I expected it to be the extruded kind you fella's mentioned. They tried saving a buck and used a cheaper screen, lets be honest. A screen is something most use so it most certainly should be strong. There is no excuse and i am sure you would admit that. You seem extremely knowledgeable and i am convinced you would want your customers to have a stronger screen.
You endorse this window as well but as i said, out of respect for my contractor, i wont mention their name. Hopefully you guys bring it to the owners attention and they change it for future customers. I'm sure you fella's have complained about this in the past and i certainly cannot be the only one.
I said my peace and will move on. I have a grand daughter to attend to.

This post was edited by lanagram on Thu, Oct 30, 14 at 19:41

As I said earlier lana, you clearly have other issues going on here. Please reread my last post.
I endorse a handful of products and recommend against others. Screen construction is nary an issue as consumers are 99.9% concerned with a well built, high performance product, and screen frame construction is at the bottom of the list even if/when it becomes an issue.
At this point, i sounds like you are a competitor of whatever brand that is in question. I fully expect that this is all a buildup to an ultimate unveiling of whatever product that you are attempting to impugn in this post, but at this point all that would do is prove my allegation to be true.

Karateguy
I was raised with integrity and find your description of me unfair to say the least. I am not a competitor nor am i going the reveal the company.
I have a legitimate issue and am angry because i paid a lot for my new windows and i am disappointed that my screens bend. Should i just let it go because the ufactor is good? Should i be satisfied with a car made with cheap interior parts that break easily when handles by kids just because it has good gas milage? I guess it would be ok if it was a cheap car but it surely wouldnt be ok if it was an expensive car that was supposed to be well built.
I am just disappointed and i never gave my contractor a hard time, he is a very fine man and its not his fault.
How about the next time you show your customer your window, after you show them how good it is, take out the screen and tell them if they pay all that hard earned money for your window, they have to accept a cheap screen that bends. See if they would be happy.
It sounds trivial and perhaps it is to you, i still am disappointed.

Terrible analogies lana.
Why would I show a prospective client a screen out of the window? Is that its function? No. I wouldn't remove the glass from the window would I?
It is designed to to work as part of the window assembly, and as it has been explained ad nauseum throughout this post, virtually any screen from any manufacturer will do just that.
I've heard many complaints in my years lana, and, well..... nevermind. I'll leave it at that.
Leave the screen where it belongs and I'm sure that you will enjoy your new windows just fine.
Best of luck to you.

I think it's increasingly obvious the problem is not the screens....

Why not reveal the name / make / model? Your opinion isn't going to put them out of business.

I don't know why you posted your problem here. It sounds like you just want to complain, no matter what any of these pro's offer - you just keep complaining.

I think we all agree that this window company should make that screen frame an extruded design. A top window should not have a screen that is made so weak, you know it and why you are attempting to spin it as " no big deal" comes across as not being truthful.

Whether Lana is on something or onto something ,she does make some good points. That being said, roll form screens are a cost saving measure. They can be easily damaged, especially on large windows and full screen windows. Wheather or not a screen is part of the performance of the window is an important part and should be made to last. I think a lot of people would pay extra if they saw them side side out of the window. Even though I do not use Soft- Lite any more I do like there extruded frames with the finger pulls and would pay extra for those. Screen complaints for me typically come after point of sale since it is not something people are looking for and the screens in samples can seem a non issue in a small sample vs the actual size. I can not remember the last time I got a damaged extruded frame from shipping, I do keep keep roll form on hand since it does get damaged on a more frequent basis. I often due point out the difference in screens in the brand I sell since roll form is used on the low-end window. I do not point out the lack of finger pulls since they are not available on my product but surely would if they were available.

lana, your accusation that anyone is trying to "spin" something or be untruthful is silly. There is not even a product named, so there is no motivation for anyone to be anything but frank is assessing your situation. Are extruded screen frames stronger? Yes. Do roll formed screens generally work problem free? Yes. Is there much correlation between the grade of product and screen frame construction? No. I could list some excellent wood, vinyl, and fiberglass windows that use roll formed, and then turnaroun and list terrible windows of each material that use extruded. As has been said multiple times in this thread, if your screens are bending when you simply attempt to operate them you have other issues. I'm sure that it is not pleasant when you've come here to get some affirmation on what you feel is a major concern only to find pretty much unanimously that it is not. Clearly you did not come here for objective answers, as they have been given several times over and you refuse to accept them.

All of the brands of vinyl that frequently get recommended here use an extruded screen frame or at least to my knowledge. The OP is maybe referring to a wood or fiberglass product? Will have to some investigating to get to the bottom of this.

Maybe it's just me.... I follow and recommend this board to others because of the useful information provided. This thread is a waste and leans towards lunacy because of the way it was approached by the OP. In a couple of posts, good information could have been provided, instead it turned into a whiny pile of bull. OP = troll?

Personally I am hoping that Lana has taken WoW up on his offer and has contacted him to take this "off line".

WoW - Thanks for stepping up as a true pro to offer to help a damsel in distress!

toddinmn, can you say why you don't use Soft-Lite anymore? Based on the information on this forum, I met with a Soft-Lite dealer to discuss windows for our new home. I am still in the research stage for materials for our home.
Thanks.

I switched to Polaris mostly due to pricing. The biggest problem I had with Soft-Lite is glass forming cracks, No other problems worth mentioning. I would upgrade to life-time free replacement glass and request the dealer to offer the labor. As mentioned I do like the locking finger pulls on the Soft-lite 1/2 screens which many do not have.

Wow some post not to add to the craziness but here is my 2 Pennies worth.

To state that a Window is Dissapointing due to a "weak screen" is not a fair or reasonable comment.

1. Screens are not meant to be moved sideways it can drag on the lower track as they do not contain rollers or lubricant to allow them to move easily.
2.It is common place to have Rolled form screens on many high end window products.
3.Most Commercial Grade wood manufacturers make 2 standard Screen options Full and half both are fixed Screens.
4.Both are held into the frames with Plungers and a channel
5. Most Showroom's / salesmen will have the screen frame and material options on display.
6. As an older person your greatest concern should be the performance and ease of operation of the window sash not the Screens.
7. we replace multiple times damaged screens that were damaged in Transit or at the site and have encountered multiple times bent frames.
8. We would never straighten a screen frame other than temporarily until the manufacturer gets a replacement to us.
Screens can be an issue not a big one given the cost of any screen is in the $40- $130 Max price range from small to super large 50" X 110"
At an aadded cost you could have purchased Roller screens which is a high add cost but may be worth it for you as the screens retract into an enclosure and out of harms way when not needed.