Psuedo, Ceph and Searer

Thanks for the personal examples and understanding. The true emaning of the OP got shot all out of the water. I almost felt guilty for being appreciative. Then I thought about the ridiculousness of what was being suggested and shrugged it off.

Thanks for "getting" me:)

Again, doodle, I applaud you for all the work/care you are doing with the girls. I realize school for them hasnt been easy either.

It seems to me that there is a double standard on this board (not saying it comes from doodle) that if a man cheats it can be his wife's fault for not keeping him happy, but if a woman does, it is only her fault.

I do think a more generic approach with the girls as they get older is best -- some womean are happy by themselves, without a man etc. I assume you have family friends in all types of situations, hopefully happy and productive.

I agree the generic approach is best...it's just really REALLY hard to not have some form of explaination for them when they are asking questions and really need an answer.

If we didn't give them any reasoning at all they may think we are just horrible people being "mean" to mama. We just want them to understand that we do have good reasons for the decisions that we make and we do honestly hope their mother gets better.

As far as the cheating thing goes this is my take....if you are the one who cheated then you need to move on and enjoy the bed you made. You shouldn't throw out a marriage and then become bitter years later when your conquest doesn't "pan out" and then be bitter towards the new husband/wife. In those situations I don't think the Ex or the new spouse owes anyone an apology.

I feel alot more sympathy towards the cheatee than I do the cheater. I will say every relationship failure has two sides....I agree totally with that. However once the call has been made to call it quits...if it's the cheatER who makes the call to end it there is little room for sympathy when they start having remorse down the road.

And you are so right about school....It has TOTALLY sucked:) My nerves are going to be totally wrecked before the end of this school year.

Again:

Regardless of how messed-up their mother is, or how messed up you think she is, or how much you resent the complications, you just don't say things to little ones like "your mother needs to be without boyfriends for a while".

Not only is it inappropriate, it's a mean-spirited snipe, & it is *not* in the best interests of any child to have his/her mother defined that way-
denigrated, resented, & hated.

If that mother is a bank robber, a welfare cheat, a back-stabbing meanie, *you just don't condemn her to her children*.

If you're calling someone a penis-chasing something-or-other on the forum, I'll guarantee her children can tell that that's your attitude in real life.

& if you're giving hubs credit for "teaching you to sew, sort of" & saying he's "good to you", the attitude that hubs/daddy/man gets all the credit for your accomplishments & your happiness & your belongings is going to be evident to them, too.

I am totally mean spirited sylvia....hahaha. I say and do things horrible like "your daddy loves us" just to hurt the girls. i totally get off on making them hate their mother that's why I go out of my way to make sure they at least TALK to her three times a week if they can't see her. That's also why I have told them not to call her by her first name because it is ugly and disrespectful. It is also why i have made thousands apon thousands of excuses for her instead of being painfully blunt and telling them the "whole" truth and letting them without a shadow of a doubt see her for what she is.

Jonathan gets no credit for my true accomplishments. If learning to sew would be the pinnacal of your existence then I feel for you. I am very capable and the girls know that...not that I should have to make it so apparent for heavens sakes!

I never called her a penis chaser either. You are being ridiculous. I said she has been through cruddy relationship after cruddy relationship and she HAS been. Have I said this to the girls? No. But we have both had to tell them they can not be around her "new" boyfriends because they are dangerous. What five year old wouldn't put two and two together?

For the record...it isn't the penis she needs...it's the income. That's why all the relationships go south so quickly. Instead of bashing me for learning to sew why don't you bash mom for basically teaching her girls it's OK to HOOK!

Oh and not to mention for sending her own children the message that her relationships are more important to her than them...NOW THERES a life damaging message for you to b**** about.

Doodle - I think it's really awesome that you are learning to sew! It's definitely a lost art in our generation. I would love it if my mother had taught me, but she didn't know how, either. If you teach your daughters, you will be giving them a skill that will benefit them for their entire lives. As well as something they can pass on to their children.

My dad's best friend's wife made my future wedding dress for me. I found the pattern online and she went with me to pick out the fabric and the notions. I had more fun that day! Then she started. I went back every weekend for fittings until it was done. And it looks even better than I had ever imagined! And it means so much that someone who loves me made it just especially for me.

I have made the girls little mini "sewing kits" with scraps, a needle and a pair of child safety scissors. They have already learned that poking fingers with needles hurt...lol. Surprisingly they keep trying! It didn't make them give up. They want me to sit and sew with them all the time.

I'm really hoping they take an interest to it since it's a positive creaive outlet PLUS they can make alot of their own clothes when they beocme adults and have children of their own.

I really hope it's something they can learn from me and tell their kids "My step mom taught me to sew" one day:)That would be cool.

The dresses I made them came out way too cute by the way:)

You know, maybe they could make something for the baby. Like a pillow or something. I bet that would make them feel so special!

That's a great idea and I haven't even thought of it! We are trying to include them in everything regarding Layla so they don't feel over shadowed. This would be a great way to include them and build their interest level at the same time!

Hey, if the girls think sewing and crafty stuff is cool, you might want to get them some beginner cross stitch...
Something like this site http://www.ericas.com/kidscrafts/kidsxstitch.htm has some pretty cute ones.
I started cross stitching at their age and I LOVED it.
11 count aida cloth is better suited to little fingers than 6 count, and they can use a fairly blunt needle to prevent tiny bloodstains on their lovely work.
I can tell you more about little kids and needlecraft if you think they'd be interested...

"I never called her a penis chaser either. You are being ridiculous."

Yes, actually you did, earlier in this thread:

"Unfortunatly she bounces from penis to penis so she has help paying her rent and of course everyone of them wind up being jerks."

If their mother's boyfriend is dangerous, I don't think it is inappropriate for Jonathan to tell his daughters that that is why they can't be around him, in simple terms that a five year old can understand.

What I think is inappropriate is your telling them that their mother should be without a boyfriend - somehow their mother doesn't "deserve" a boyfriend, or their mother is incapable of finding a decent one, whereas you, of course, somehow do.

I don't think you have the right to tell them what to call their mother, for that matter. One of my kids grew up very close to a friend, and when they were just beginning to talk, they both called me "mommy," (because that is what her friend heard my daughter call me). Yet they both usually called the friend's mother by her first name, for some reason. Actually I think my daughter called her friend's mother "mommy" more often than her own daughter did. Both girls are in college now, and my daughter's friend is still calling her mother (and me, too, of course) by first name. There is no disrespect intended or inferred.

If I was encouraging the girls to call their mother Amanda I would be getting flamed for that. They call me mom...normally I would be getting barked at for THAT not for telling the girls to call their mother mom. I give up. Once the decision has been made to be negative that's just all she wrote.

I don't think you should be telling the girls what to call their mother, but I don't think they should be calling you "mom" either. My friend and I didn't mind our kids calling both of us mommy, but they were only 18-24 months old at the time.

....talking about your double standards. If it isn't a disrespect thing towards their mother to call her Amanda why should it matter what they call me? I'm confused. You can't pick and choose convieniently what is and is not exceptable if you are going to hold seperate individuals to completely different sets of standards.

Either it is OK for them to call who they want what they want or it is not. There is no such thing as a semi-right wrong. I guess I'll just let them keep calling her Amanda with out correction and they can call me Mamma all they want. Now that I'm pregnant J even calls me Mama...it's only going to get worse as far as the girls "adopting" me as the mom figure. Mom is less and less in the picture and when Layla is actually here I will be in an even more MAGNIFIED mother role.

It's inevitable they are going to refer to me as mom. I'll just stop trying to reinforce they have a real mother all togther and let them decide who they want to call what.

That's pretty much what you are saying I should do right?

She's always going to argue "theotherside" so you'll never win. She always flip-flops positions just to be argumentative. She's just trying to rile you. You know, as well as I do, that she doesn't even believe what she's saying. If it were her in the situation with a former spouse, and not a friend, she would not like her kids calling the other person "mom" and her by her first name. She is getting so much enjoyment off of getting you worked up.

Kids should be able to call the steps whatever they feel comfortable with. You're doing fine and in every way, other than biologically, you are their mother. It's not like you only see them a couple days a month. You're there every day doing the hard stuff. If they feel like you're their mom, that's their right. I, actually think it's great that you correct them on calling their mom by her first name. I'm sure it would frustrate her if they slipped and called her Amanda to her. She's already living in a perpetual pity party.

I think it is great to see the love among you and the girls. It sounds like you support and even encourage their love for their mother. That's a good thing.

I'm trying to keep them fro feeling totally abandoned is what I'm trying to do. With a baby on the way I know they must be feeling even more so segregated from their mother and I feel really bad for them.

It has been really hard. They are having a hard time excepting that I am going to be Layla's MOTHER MOTHER and only their step parent. I think they feel a little cheated that I will be an involved mom to Layla but theirs is not.

It has been a few weeks ago but one of the girls asked me if i was going to be a mama. I answered yes. She then asked if I was going to be "Real" mama? I said yes again. When she asked if I was her mama I was honest so as not to step on any toes and said "No honey. You weren't in my belly. You were in your mommies belly. I'm your step mommy because I'm married to your daddy. I help him take care of you when you are with us." This child busted out into tears and said "I don't LIKE STEPS! Only MOMMIES!!!" That's when I asked her if she wanted to call me mommy. I asked her if it would make her feel better. She said yes it would so I have told them both to call me whatever they are comfortable calling me. One calls me mommy/mama and one calls me mama cupcake. I left it at that.

I can't allow them to call their real mother by her first name though. I don't want them completely losing sight of the fact that they do have a biological mother. I also wouldn't want her to know they call me mama (and she does know) and on top of that indure being called Amanda. I think that would be cruel.

I think I would have said "layla has just me and dad to love her but YOU have mom, dad AND doodle."

I've used that line before too Piper....they have no doubt that I love them. It's the entire "Mother" stigma,title and all, that they are having the major issues with.

So you are the one who actually suggested that they call you mommy.

I believe that children should call at most one person mommy. If their mother does not mind being called by her first name, and they want to, then it is fine if they call nobody mommy, but it is not your job to make that decision.

doodleboo....I thought your original postings was lovely. Period.

IMO it should be totally up to the child what they feel comfortable with when refering to their step parent..especially when the step parent is raising the child full time and the bio parent isnt around or has minimal involvement with the child...
My SD as a toddler asked me could I be her mommy (which is what she called BM...we told her that she already had a mommy and that was BM..she was upset (just as your girls) so we sat her down and told her she could pick another name for me (it just couldnt be mommy).....(all the names she brought up all had mom in the word .mom, mama..I think she even thought up moomom..and decided she liked mama best...so I (the mom who raises her am Mama and her bio mom is Mommy) when we had bio children of our own, they just automatically called me mama too from hearing their big sister call me that....to this day all three of my kiddos call me mama...I think it has turned out well that all three call me the same thing, it is across the board and no one feels left out, SD doesnt rank any less in my book than my bios, and I would never want her to feel that way so if she wants to call me somthing normally reserved for a bio I am ok with it.
SD is a lot older now, and I leave it up to her to explain her family situation if she chooses to, explaining to her freinds that I am SM not BIO, sometimes she chooses to and sometimes she doesnt, Our situation is a bit different than most though because BM is not involved, and when SD was little there was minimal involvement, (a couple hours per month) so to her I am Mama..and I am darn well proud to be her "mama"
Bio mom has known for years what SD calls me...I assume if she had a big enough problem with it she would have sucked it up and decided to be a mom to her little girl...

what is so bad about having more than one mom? In some cultures, children have many "moms" the children are raised by many women in the same village..all hold the same respect and title.......

My first sd's biomom gave her up to us so that biomom could party with her friends and boyfriends. Biomom was 26, I was 20. I remember how hurt my sd was, she was 5. She asked me what she should call me and I told her that she could call me what ever she wanted to. She chose "mom". I think she needed someone to call "mom" and I thought it was an honor. What her biomom thought about it at the time I really didn't care. I couldn't understand how she could let a woman she hardly knew raise her precious daughter for her. The biomom hasn't changed much in 28 years. She may be jealous of my relationship with her dd but she had a choice, many times and chose herself over her daughter.

My youngest sd lost her biomom to cancer. She calls me mom too. She needed a mom and thats me.

My teens call my dh by his first name. They love him, respect him and he does them as well but their age has more to do with their choice.

TOS

No. They had been calling me Mama for awhile and I was actually trying to correct it for awhile as well. Whenever I would correct them ,one of the twins more so than the other, would get visibly upset. That's when all the questions about who came form whoes tummy started...etc.

I tried to get them to call me by a nickname or at least call me STEP mama but the child became upset and THAT is when I asked her what she wanted to call me. I think it is comforting for them to say "mama". I think it makes them feel good and not so rejected by their OWN mother to have a woman in the house they can call mother. I don't know if that makes any sense to you or not but I am almost positive they are subconsciously trying to fill a void.

I never told them to call me anything. The only thing I have ever told them about monickers is that they really shouldn't call their mom Amanda. I will let them do that too if they are insistant with it like they were with calling me mom.

Why can't you believe that two children are calling the woman who has taken care of them since their mother ditched them mother on their own terms? Why is that so hard for you to believe? I think it's natural for a child to want that connection and if the bioparent isn't on the scene they will forge one with a mother/father figure. Isn't that pretty normal for children with absent parents?

All I know is that if it makes them feel better they call me whatever they want.

Ill tell you what I think, I think it is sad that you came on here to post something sweet about your family and were flammed for it. You have taken on a lot and seem to be doing a great job and enjoying it. Don't listen to what those who critize you say at least you are sharing positive things about your family.

They can "bond" with you without calling you "mommy." One of my relatives who was adopted through open adoption new his biological mother all his life, and is still quite close to her. Only his adoptive mother is "mom" though. Only one person gets that title - and except in cases of adoption, that would be your biological mother.

Oh my goodness....Doodleboo....People really have to watch where they step here....I'll say it again....I thought your original post was lovely...keep on doing what you're doing....Thank God you are....Bless you.

all I can say is MOTHER!!!!!! and that's without any 'bonding'.

and that's the nicest way I can think of to put it.

For goodness sake! Yes, we should all watch what we say, especially around children, lest they get the wrong ideas. I have several things to say:
1) children often ask questions for which there are no "right" answers. just do the best you can and move on. There will be many more opportunities to correct and refine the message you're trying to get across.
2) I have called many people "Mom" in my life, best friends moms, boyfriends moms, anyone I have felt close enough to call "mom". They know I didn't come from their tummy. I know I didn't come from their tummy. It's an endearment that brings people closer. I have my best friends mom, and I call her "Mama T" or "Mom #2". She loves it, I love it, and we're comfortable. Who is anyone to judge the personal relationship between two people if everyone feels good? If it isn't comfortable to be called mom when you're not the "real" (with complete sarcasm - god, I love the word "real"!) mom then use something like "Mama Doodleboo" (that's actually pretty cute!) and Mama Amanda to differentiate between you and the "real person" who is their "real mom". The way I look at it, these many "moms" in my life do what a "real" mom does: love me, feed me, take care of me, listen to me. Everything but birth me. Any idiot can be a mother. It takes a special woman to be a mom.

I think that while it can be said that we could read some of the "daddy" issues into this situation that the more important thing is that the girls feel comfortable enough talking to their second mom/step mom about their feelings. Sure, maybe she could have said things a little "better". For crying out loud, I could have said a dozen things better yesterday.

When my step-mom told her mother that she's a great-grandmother her mom said, no I'm not. And my SM told her, yes you are, because xx is my SD and xxx is her DD, and that makes you a great-grandmother. And she declined. Ha! Now which is more harmful? My daughter calling her "Grandma" or her refusing to be "grandma"? I have my DD call her grandparents by their names, like Grand__ L, etc... including my SM, because why confuse the kid? and who cares, really? I know who my birth mother is!

And, kids are trying to figure out where everyone fits in and how they fit in and why they are in the place they are. My DD told her grandpa the other day that she and I are twins. Because our hair is the same color. Afterwords, I explained that we're not really twins, and she asked why not. I told her that Grandpa L is my dad, and her dad is xx and I'm her mom, and my mom is Grandma P. She said "oooohhhh that's right mom". And she's six.

Doodleboo, your life is hard enough. Take these comments with a pillar of salt and for goodness sake don't look back. It's all I can do to keep kindness in my voice when my DD talks about her dad like he's God. I try to highlight the good stuff and keep everything age appropriate/relationship appropriate, but sometimes I just slip up.

My DD said something similar the other day. I said SD is doing _________ (something, I can't remember) as we were pulling into the driveway,and she looked at me and said, SD's a good man, isn't he Mom? And I said, yes, I think so, what do you think? And she said I think so too. What a lovely moment. It felt so good to have his place affirmed and respected by her.

You are lucky these girls recognize love when they see it. Don't let that be spoiled by should have could have would haves.

Mom1, believer, Ima and silversword,

Thanks for the support. It isn't easy being the custodial mother to two children who arn't yours. It isn't hard because I feel disconnected from them or becasue they are having trouble excepting me....obviously we have all melded very naturaly to each other. It's hard because the bioparent has issues and I am the one who is alot of the times left to deal with them. It is a very precarious situation where at times you feel you are trying to balance ten different plates at once.

You don't want to lie but you don't want to over share. You don't want them to give up but you don't want to build up there hopes too high. You don't want to step on toes but you don't want to deny the girls th comfort of calling somebody mom. You want them to have a relationship with mom but at the same time need to KNOW they are safe. You want to feel pity for the woman but you can't get past the anger and aggravation of her causing so many porblems. You want her to get better and be a parent but at the same time wish she'd just go away because deep down you KNOW she never will. There is all these connundrums, fine lines and sensitive material I have to deal with. It's like being forced to tap dance on a landmine. All you can do is forge ahead and hope for the best and lose as few limbs as possible in the process.

"My DD said something similar the other day. I said SD is doing _________ (something, I can't remember) as we were pulling into the driveway,and she looked at me and said, SD's a good man, isn't he Mom? And I said, yes, I think so, what do you think? And she said I think so too. What a lovely moment. It felt so good to have his place affirmed and respected by her."

Moments like these keep us going Silversword. It's almost as if some posters on this site hate to see that we, as step families, have THESE moments. That it isn't always drama'bitterness and confusion. We ARE part of a family not just some second hand glorified prostitiute to our spouses whom they only married for our looks and money! I don't know about you all but I'm not gorgeous and I'm deffinatly not rich so theres only one more reason he could of married me.....love.
That seems to be a nightmare to some first husbands/wives....that the ex could truly move on out of LOVE and respect and stories like yours above and my OP really gets under their skin because not only has the ex moved on but the children have gotten over the divorce as well. The girls have issues with their mothers behavior not our family set up.

"They can "bond" with you without calling you "mommy." One of my relatives who was adopted through open adoption new his biological mother all his life, and is still quite close to her. Only his adoptive mother is "mom" though. Only one person gets that title - and except in cases of adoption, that would be your biological mother."

TOS-

Again, like your relative in the above snippet, the girls are the ones who decided what to call me.

I am also more than aware that bonds can be made without the word MAMA ever being uttered. There can also be biological birth givers who never really bond with their own blood offspring. Mama is a word. It is a job title. In the grand scheme of things it really means S***. It wasn't an issue to me what they called me. It was a decision they made to comfort themselves....to cover a loss. To soften the blow of being dumped. They needed to call somone MOM. Since I am the one doing all the motherly duties at their home it was only natural they would wind up passing that torch on to me. I am not going to tell these kids there can be ONLY ONE MOM. This isn't the movie Highlander afterall. These are two very young little girls who have basically been dumped by their own mother. If calling me mom is what helps them feel like a family and helps them cope than they call me mama till the cows come home.

I think you misunderstood - my relative did not "decide" to call his adoptive mother "mom" and his birth mother by her first name, anymore than my children "decided" to call me "mom" - that is how I referred to myself in their infancy. The point of my story was that it went without saying that there was only one person in my relative's life who was "mom" - in his case, his adoptive mother.

It's ironic to me how a legal adoption can make you 'mom', even if the REAL mom is in the picture still. But, being the one that takes care them when they are sick, make sure they eat healthy, arrange play dates, parties and other stuff, volunteer at the school, scouts, or sports... and all the other things a custodial stepmom does while the mother of these children is living in la la land with so much to do in their own life that they can't find the time to pick up the phone and call the kids they left behind to see how they are doing. But, she is still 'mom'. Hmmm

Now, there are many levels of involvement of NCBM's on this board, from 'haven't heard from her in a year or more' to 'spends weekends' and I'm not talking about the mom's that are in the same town and see their kids more often, those mom's are obviously involved. I'm talking about uninvolved/under involved moms that COULD be more involved but CHOOSE not to. Living in different countries is not an excuse when you can pick up the phone and let the kids know you are thinking about them, that what they do in life matters to you, and that even though you can't be there, you care. There is no blanket answer... Some step kids want a parent so they choose to think of their step parent as a parent. My daughter is 18 and has toyed with calling my husband dad. He didn't raise her but she wants a dad in her life and her 'real' dad chose not to be in her life. As soon as she turned 18, she filed to change her last name and get rid of anything to associate herself with him. But, kids DO choose eventually.

"You don't want to lie but you don't want to over share."

Isn't that the truth!!! I'm not going to tell my child that her father was doing drugs and cheating on me. But I'm sure not going to gloss over what he did either. The other day he told me that she had asked him why we weren't together, and he said that "your mom loves xx now". What a bunch of baloney. I called him on it right away. Don't make this into a "mom found another guy" issue, because that's not the truth. You did drugs, lied when I caught you, kept doing them, lied about seeing other women, said you'd stop, then lied about not stopping. And the drugs were under the bed. Right where a crawling baby could have gotten to them. Thinking of it makes me ill. It was over. You $%*@ up.

It makes me so uncomfortable to be put in the position of filtering the truth to make it better for her but that's what I have to do, because she's not old enough for the truth. But I don't lie either. I just tell her we had different ideas of how we wanted to live, and we didn't get along anymore, but we both love you.

Last year this conversation was overheard at my daughter's school: daughter "blah blah blah, SD" other kid: "who is SD" daughter "he's my dad". She never calls him dad, she calls him by his first name. That's fine with us. We don't push anything. Her dad is a good dad, and a good man. He's just a classic example of a spoiled little rich boy who never grew up. Nothing like you are facing Doodle. But tragic just the same.

When I was 21 I was engaged to a man (boy? :) age 22 with a three year old daughter. I bathed her, fed her, took her to the park, etc... when he had her. She called me Miss Silver. Once we went to the grocery store and the clerk referred to me as her "mom" and she said, she's not my mom, she's Miss ____! Later we had the conversation that I'm not her mom, but I am there for her and I am her friend. She was so afraid of me taking her mom's place. And, while I didn't agree with her mother's childrearing skills (the kid had never brushed her teeth and, upon my recommendation and taking her to my dentist, got a recommendation that I took to her mother, that she get her teeth pulled because they were so rotten. The kid had to be put under at age three. Mom "they're going to fall out anyway". enough said) the mom was very loving and pretty stable. Just ignorant. Fast forward two years. We split up. But the little girl still asks about me nearly ten years later. And I still think of her. She never called me "mom" but that's the role I filled while she was with me. I woke up in the middle of the night and cleaned the bed when she wet it. I caught her when she fell (and her mom used to put her in these high heeled shoes with makeup on, and little skirts and crop tops. In Washington. In the winter. She was a tomboy and loved to run, but she'd fall because her shoes were too high. Don't get me started!!!)

Honestly, I think this is a bunch of hoo-haw. Kids need caring, involved people in their lives. Who cares what title a person is given? I used to call my dad "daddy doo dah" for years. Now I call him Papa. I refer to my DH's father, now deceased, as Dad. He calls the woman he lived with, his friend's mom, "Mom". He says, my mom, ________. And I get a little confused, because his mom has been dead for 21 years. But they have bonded.

Point on the "who gets to be mom"...

Angelina and Brad's kids.... Are they "mom and dad" because they adopted them, even though if the birth parents had more money they would have raised the children themselves? Personally, with all the money the celebs have, I think they would have been better off just paying for the kid's life needs (what would that be in her native land, $5000.00?) and letting her stay with the birth parents, but that's another topic.

Anyone can have a kid. It takes a saint to raise one well who is not "yours". I'm glad I had the experience with being a psudo step mom because it helps me understand the dynamics of what my dh is going through right now with my dd. It's very hard.

By the way, my DD calls her grandmother by her first name. I've discouraged it, but my DD's ok with it and so is she. Who the heck cares?

Bless you for even holding your tongue as much as you did! I have a seriously hard time keeping mine in check. How do you put such damaging behavior into child speak? And even worse when you may be seen as competing, or vengeful or TOW. Every step is taken on broken glass. Every word is measured. Every thought is balanced, making sure there is no malice. It's a slippery slope. It's a tightrope dance. It's an act of love.

"It's ironic to me how a legal adoption can make you 'mom', even if the REAL mom is in the picture still."

When you adopt a child, you become the REAL mom, and saying otherwise is an insult to adoptive parents and children everywhere. This same relative of mine once had a teacher who asked him some question about his "real" mom, when she meant his birth mother. He responded that his MOTHER was his REAL mom.

There is a huge difference between being an adoptive parent and a stepparent, legally, morally, emotionally, and commitment-wise. If any of you stepparents were to divorce, it is quite likely that you would never even see your stepchildren again.

That difference is one reason Doodleboo's post about Jonathan's agreeing to take pick up his parents at the airport around her due date bothered me so much. Just because he did something dumb and clueless, she was talking about leaving him. I don't care if it was "the hormones talking," - Doodleboo claims to love the twins as if they were her own, yet if she left she might never see them again. If it is true that she loves them like her own, I don't understand how the thought of leaving could even flash through her mind, much less stay there long enough for her to post about it.

TOS, exactly.

Steven Jobs (of Apple) is adopted, but does have contact with his birth parents and sibling. Once time I was watching him give him an interview, and was asked about his "real parents". He replied his adoptive parents were his real parents.

TOS,

"There is a huge difference between being an adoptive parent and a step parent, legally, morally, emotionally and commitment wise. If any of you step parents were to divorce, it is quite likely that you would never even see your step children again."

The truth about the not seeing the step children again should you divorce was an issue for me in my 1st marriage. I actually thought about that when I had thought about ending the marriage to SD's DD.(several years before I did) I didn't want to leave my SD. I didn't want this little girl to have mom, after mom after mom. I do understand that the dynamics of a step relationship are different then adoptive or bio but for me the emotional/ commitment was the same. When ever I did back off with my SD it was difficult for me because neither her DF or biomom had her best interest at heart or followed through with things for her.

I am planning on adopting my 10 year old SD. Her biomom is deceased. Should something happen to FDH she could go back to Ca. and live with older sister, 30, or her biomom's family but FDH and I want her to stay with me. She wants to stay with me. I have made a life long commitment to this child. She needs it, I want it and FDH and I think it is the best thing for her.I have promised to keep upt the conection and visits with her biomom's family and her Dad's family. I would fly her back to Ca., they would still come here.

I'm not arguing with you. Just expressing my individual situation. In the case of my 1st SD, who is now 33, neither bioparent is someone that she can depend on. The bond that we made when she was a child has continued to grow. She has told me that when she has children, I will be their grandmother. It isn't that she is shutting BM out. Bm still isn't a grown up yet. She switched roles with her daughter years ago. She and SD's dad are both alcoholics and very selfish people.She loves them and has a relationship with them and would never shut them out of her children's lives but she has learned who she can depend on. I am the stability in her life and I feel honored that she is in my life.

Each person is different. What is difficult for me to understand and perhaps this is true with other SMs, is that I do willing for a child that is not mine things that their bio parents won't even do for their own kids. That blows my mind.I have tried to be the type of SM that I would want my kids to have.

A few weeks ago, when SD's mom and new hubs started divorce talks, SD came to me wanting to talk before bed. This is usually a sign something is bugging her. She wanted to know if her dad I were going to divorce before she was 18. When I asked her, quite puzzled, why she would even ask that she replied that she didn't know how she would tell her parents that she wanted to live with me.

What she doesn't know is that, should DH and I split, I would fight tooth and nail for visitation rights. I would continue to coach, volunteer, and support her just as I do today. Why? Because she is as much my child as the two I gave birth to. There is not a statistic, 'real life' experience or argument you can throw out that would change that. I have fought harder, cried more, and given more of myself for my SD than either of my boys. To think I would just walk away from that is . . . unthinkable.

My SD says that I am her 'real mom' because I act like a true mother does. I'd like to see you tell her she is wrong.

You are obviously aware that, although you might be granted visitation, it is very, very unlikely that you would get primary or even shared custody if you and her father were to divorce. For the vast majority of people, that fact puts up a barrier, even if just a small one, a barrier that isn't there between a mother and her child.

Didn't Imamommy post a few weeks ago about possibly having her SD go live with her mom. This child may be a handful, but it doesnt seem to me like unconditional love.

Jonathan and I have had the conversation about what would happen if we spilt up. My MAIN concern would be him seeing the daughter and me seeing the girls. He swore if ,god forbid, something ever did happen between us he would not keep the girls from me. It would be BEYOND damaging to them to have another mother dissapear from their lives PLUS I am the mother of their sister. I would still very much be involved with the girls.

How could I not be as much as they love me? How horrible would I be as a parent to THROW children away just because their father and I didn't work out. You divorce spouses not children.

Jonathan can totally piss me off sometimes but he still remains the most amazing man I have ever met. I believe that being pregnant intitles me to a melt down occasionally without it being held over my head forever for ctying out loud....hahahaha.

I would also LOVE LOVE LOVE to adopt the girls and we very much hope it will be an option one day. I would whole heartedly except that responsibility. I'm already in that role...there just isn't paperwork attaching us. The bonds are no less there though.

TOS, I have a question for you... are you a step-parent? Are you a birth parent?

"When you adopt a child, you become the REAL mom"

Um, it's not that simple. You become the adopted parent. The birth parent is still the birth parent. You are both "real parents". Who the child decides to consider their mother is up to the child, one, the other, or both. I know adopted children who think of both parents as being their "real" parents. My aunt gave her son up for adoption to a family friend (She was very young when she had him) and he still considers her his mom, while calling his adopted parents mom and dad too. This is so individual how can you make generalizations?

Quote from the Velveteen Rabbit:

"What is REAL?" asked the Rabbit one day..."

"Real isn't how you are made," said the Skin Horse. "It's a thing that happens to you. When a child loves you for a long, long time, not just to play with, but REALLY loves you, then you become Real."

"Does it hurt?" asked the Rabbit.

"Sometimes," said the Skin Horse, for he was always truthful. "When you are Real you don't mind being hurt."

It is really creepy how well that translates into the child step parent world silversword. It makes me wonder if the Velveteen Rabbit was written by a Step or Adoptive parent. It's true.....somtimes it does hurt but for the love of the child you deal with the hurt.

Silver,

The law is clear. Once a child is adopted the birth parents forfeit all rights and responsibilities, and the adoptive parents take over. My DD can consider her aunt a mom, it doesnt make it so.

If your DD considers her aunt a mom, then her aunt may not have legal rights and responsibilities (which I think is a shame when a child loves someone in that way, but gets no legal protection of that relationship) but it won't stop the child from going to that aunt for advice and to maintain the relationship when she is an adult.

Children are not possessions and they do have their own feelings. Sure, there are not many rights for step parents, but if a step parent makes an effort to maintain the relationship with the child after a divorce from/death of the parent, then who does it hurt when the other parent refuses to allow the relationship to continue? The law is clear but parents are supposed to love their children more than they hate the other parent/step parent. Unfortunately they don't always see it that way and in the case of young kids, it's sad that with the passing of time, the step parent is distanced from the child's life. The step parent has no choice. My door is open to my ex's kids and now that they are adults, they can make a choice for themselves. Perhaps too much time has gone by and they will choose to not have a relationship with me. That is sad because I raised them for seven years. I changed diapers, bottles, potty trained, 1st days of school, was room mom, conferences, planned parties, administered care when they were sick & took them to the doctors. I was den mother for cub scouts, took them to dance class/recitals, little league, and everything in between. I was the only mother they had in their day to day life. Their bio mom was on drugs & unable to take care of them or even be a part of their life. When their dad got married, their new step mom didn't want them around and their bio mom didn't come back into their lives until they were in their late teens. They could have had a relationship with me all those years they were suffering with no mother figure but their father decided it was too hard for him for me to be in their lives. If I didn't want to be with him, I couldn't see the kids anymore. It's now ten years later, and they can come to me if they want & I will still do for them as I will always consider them my kids.

Also...somebody look this up. In some states they are pressing to award Step Parents visitation and there has even been cases of Step Parents agreeing to pay CS for Step Children.

I read about it some where and can't remember for the life of me where. It was in a National Newspaper though.

KKNY, I just got back to this post, and I have to reply to what you wrote below:

"Silver, The law is clear. Once a child is adopted the birth parents forfeit all rights and responsibilities, and the adoptive parents take over. My DD can consider her aunt a mom, it doesnt make it so."

My goodness, we have different opinions on that. The law cannot take a person's parenthood away from them. A parent can forfit their rights to raise the child, but they will always be that child's mother or father. Once you carry a baby, you are a mother. Once you give birth you are a mother. Once you care for children as a mother would, you are a mother.

One does not cancel out the other. And different cultures/social constructs allow for more than one person to "parent" a child.

"A mother is a biological and/or social female parent of an offspring...The title mother is often given to a woman other than the biological parent, if it is she who fulfills the social role. This is most commonly either an adoptive mother or a stepmother (the biologically unrelated wife of a child's father). Also, in both African-American and lesbian cultures non-biological othermothers exist. Currently, with advances in reproductive technologies, the function of biological motherhood can be split between the genetic mother (who provides the ovum) and the gestational mother (who carries the pregnancy), and in theory neither might be the social mother (the one who brings up the child). A healthy connection between a mother and a child form a secure base, from which the child may later venture forth into the world." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother

Ima, your story is touching. You truly were their mother, and will always be their mother. I wish you the best in the future with your relationship with your children.