Oh, that's such a tough situation isn't it? I haven't had to deal with it too much until recently when DH told SS not to tell me he co-signed on a car loan for him.

A little different as SS is adult, and although it was meant to deceive me, I think it wasn't like trying make a small child dislike me or anything like that.

Although I will say it did negatively affect my relationship with both DH & SS. I felt betrayed and don't fully trust either one of them to be completely truthful with me.

I think it's really sad when this happens, especially with younger children. It just teaches them to be really good liars.

~Cat

teaching kids lying is inappopriate. the only lie I ever asked DD-20 to tell dad (actually she came up wiht this idea first but I supported) is the actual day when college tuition is due. If you tell him real date, he will be a week late. so DD tells him a date a week early so he would transfer money on time. so far it works. but that's innocent lie.

This has been an ongoing problem for us since DH and his ex split. Mom would tell SD not to tell us things, or tell us something other than the truth. When she had the domestic issues that resulted in DH getting custody she would tell SD to lie CONSTANTLY. "Don't tell daddy the police were here" - as if a 5 year old can keep that one quiet! She would call everything a 'Family Secret' and tell SD that all families have them. We, and SD's counselor, explained to her the difference between keeping a gift secret and keeping the fact the police were over secret. She's never been good as keeping a secret anyway, and usually tells me everything as soon as she gets home. I think the things she hears are just too much for her to hold in and she has to unload.

We have always maintained that if you don't want something shared, don't share it with your kid. If you don't want something reported to the pther parent, don't do it. Pretty simple. Asking a child to lie to cover up your wrong doing is about as disgusting as it gets, IMO.

Teaching/Telling kids to lie or withold information from the other parent is terrible. We had a similar incident last Christmas. We were in the middle of a contiuous fight that was quickly looking like it was going to court because BM got a wild hair (money) and decided she should take the kids and not let us see them...at the same time the kids (mostly the boys) were having a lot of problems dealing with her BF that she was living with. Well, she had the kids christam eve and then christmas day. We got a call from one of the boys that her BF had hit the oldest ss. BM said they were playing...ss was upset. So, DH told BM that the boys were having a lot of problems over there and that BF wasnt treating the boys very well. She said she would talk to him. Apparently she did and all H*** broke loose and the BF proceeded (on Christmas Eve mind you) to yell at the boys and tell them that DAD was going to go to jail for lieing about him and so on and so on. Apparently at one point Bf told BM to get out(of the house) so he could continue to yell at the boys (after according to her she told him to drop it) and she did. To this day I will never understand why she left the house leaving her boys with some man yelling at them for what... confiding to their father what was going on and that they didnt like it there...it would have been a cold day in... before I would have ever left that house. The kids werent supposed to come over for Christmas until 3 in the afternoon... she dropped them off at 6 in the morning. We found out about all of this that afternoon. Dh called bm ... more arguing more fighting... We talked to each kid seperatly and got the same story. Dh told BM he was done playing games... she had taken the kids and now she was letting some man (imo) abuse them. BM tried to deny what happened until we told her that we talked to each kid alone and they all had the same story so she could stop lieing now. Anyways, she ended up telling the kids that they were not tell us anything that happens over there...ofcourse the kids came back and told us that and more problems pursued. DH told BM in no uncertain terms she is to NEVER tell his children not to tell him something or tell them to lie to him....

I couldnt believe what was happening. Her solution to the problem of her BF mistreating the boys... dont tell dad.. wonderful!! I can only say thank god they are breaking up now!!

FD, I think what you and your DD do is fine.

I always tell my DD that she has to be ready for dad 15 minutes early, becuase she is always running late.

BM in our case used to ask the kids to keep secrets. She told the kids "what happens at my house stays at my house". Too bad middle SD came home and told us right away about her mom's new slogan! And if the kids did keep secrets I can not imagine how much was going on over there. Every time they came home one of the younger 2 had some story they could not wait to tell. And then older sd would look at them with the mad look on her face because they told.

in our case, BM and stepfather have also told the kids that what happens at their house stays at their house. THey threaten the kids not to say things. The kids tell us anyway.

We dont care what the kids say at the BM's house. Often BM gets angry and puts the worst possible interpretation on something, and calls up screaming at my husband, but who cares. We just consider the source.

And yet I have been told before on this board that I should have (somehow) forced my older kids to keep their father's affair (which they figured out even before I did) secret from their younger siblings.

There's a difference between someone saying it's wrong for a mom to tell her children dad is a cheater and another thing to say mom should force her kids to keep a secret or lie for dad, nobody told anyone to force older kids not to tell younger kids anything. Kids will figure it out eventually (as the older ones did) and they aren't going to be any less hurt if they find out sooner than later.

That's like saying we should tell all kids there is no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny or tooth fairy when they are little so they won't be disappointed to find out the truth later and be angry that they were lied to about it for years. I'm all for keeping them innocent and shielding them from grown up problems and issues and telling them you did so out of love so they won't have to worry over such things that mom and dad are supposed to deal with like adults. It's just wrong to burden kids with grown up problems and sometimes it's unavoidable, but it's horribly wrong to do so on purpose.

Speaking for myself, as I can't say what others thought, I don't believe you needed to lie to the kids about it. BUT, I don't think you needed to be 100%, full disclosure honest either. Something between "Dad just left" and "Dad is a no good, cheating scumbag who bailed on us" is likely the direction I would head . . . . for those children old enough to understand. For those that weren't I would have just explained that mommy and daddy didn't share the same plan for the future and it was better if they went their different directions. That isn't a lie and later, when they learn what a 'cheating scumbag' is, more detail could be given. That way you aren't lying to them - just giving them the facts in terms they can comprehend.

There is a difference in withholding info from your kids that they can't fully understand and could place an unnecessary burden on them and out and out telling them to lie to someone else. Big difference.

Apparently you don't understand what I said. My older child figured out that their father was having an affair, before I did, and informed the younger children.

You can't have it both ways. Either you think I should have told the older child to keep it secret (not that I had the opportunity to do so anyway) or not.

I think your older child was out of line. I understand he was likely shocked, but it was selfish of him to turn to siblings before you. He should have come to you with his suspicions and let you decide if his younger siblings should know, and if so what they should know. The older child could have helped in this education, but with your guidance. Just like I outlined.

I don't think it was selfish at all, and this child's world had just fallen completely apart. If their father did not want them to know that he was having an affair, he should not have introduced them to his "friend," TOW. This was not about "suspicions." This child didn't share "suspicions" with anyone, including me - this was blatant confirmation of the the child's suspicions.

We have done some real soul searching over the past few years about whether to lie to the kids about the nefarious activities of their other parents. On the one hand, we did't want to hurt their feelings. On the other hand, we did't want them trusting people who are fundamentally untrustworthy. Also, the other parents sometimes used these lies to hurt us and the kids.

After a few years of experience, we have started moving toward fuller disclosure. We find that it's better for the kids to be prepared than to be set up for disappointment, over and over again. We don't include gorey details, but we did tell them that the BM took promised trips without them, and that my daughter's biological father actually moved away without telling anyone. It hurts, but at least they're ready the next time (and there's ALWAYS a next time).

We've also started telling the kids the truth about money. The stepkids were told that the BM couldn't afford food because child support was unpaid. Actually, the child support was paid - but blown in Vegas. We really needed to set them straight rather than let them think badly of the people who really care for them.

In my opinion, it all boils down to maturity of the children and age-appropriateness. Tell children what is appropriate for their maturity level. My DS's mental maturity is vastly different from FSD's. Even FDH and BM have commented on it. Not that it's bad, but we have to handle things differently with each child. FSD is probably about 2 or 3 years behind in her maturity, mostly due to excessive sheltering from her parents. For instance, she was talking to a friend on the phone (in my bedroom, rolling all over my bed, while I was folding clothes) this past summer and her friend was talking of going to Greece with the extra-curricular group that FSD used to belong to before she moved. This friend told FSD that they have nude beaches there. FSD said "is that the name of it? Like Galveston Beach?" Her friend told her that it was a beach where people don't wear clothes. She says "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH, I get it, EWWWWW". I don't necessarily believe that nieviety (sp?) to be a bad thing. Actually, I find it refreshing in a world where too many people grow up too fast. But there are other things that her immaturity causes massive problems. Homework, schedules of her different activites and so on.

DS, on the other hand, is over-aware of what goes on between his father and me. For instance, last year when X and I were going through CS issues, DS tells me in the grocery store "can I have yogurt? We have the money now that my dad is giving us more." He then proceeded to tell me how his dad was going to have to get another job and wasn't going to be able to be involved in his sports anymore due to having to work more. UGH! I hadn't been talking to DS about what was going on, but X did so I had clean-up duty. So I say "Okay, bud, here's the deal. Dad hasn't actually paid any of that money yet and the courts haven't decided exactly how much more he will be paying. So we will not be spending any more than we have to. And in any case, the courts won't ask Dad to pay any more than he is able to". I only told him what I thought he should know and could handle. Nothing more. I could've said "Well, your DAD has 2 vehicles and we only have one and he's complaining about having to pay a few more dollars to support HIS son when he's been getting away with it for the last 3 years. Oh, and by the way, he thinks his motorcycle is more important than you. He makes sure to make that motorcycle payment, but doesn't make sure to send his money for you." I could've said that. But that would only hurt my DS who looks up to and loves his father.

It is terribly sad to see kids put in such a situation by the people who are suppose to love them the most. It is obvious what the right things to do are. I don't think there is much else that I can say.