AMEN TO THAT!! I, too, sought the advice of people who are in my situation or have been through it in the past and have instead been ripped apart by the bitter biomoms. Newsflash-the biomom in my scenario doesn't dislike me as much as a couple of people here. (Two in particular.) Those same two seem to do the same exact thing to basically ALL if the stepmom's here.

I realize this is the internet and logistically speaking there's no way to block someone else's posts, on top of freedom of speech and all that jazz, but I would really encourage the biomom's who can't find ONE SINGLE nice, or helpful, or encouraging thing to say to start a new group on this forum.

I'm thinking 'Bitter Biomom's'. Maybe 'I Hate Steps'. Or perhaps 'Women Scorned'.

I have seen several posters who got fed up and just stopped posting because of these kind of attacks. I was one who almost did, but I missed the feedback of others and feeling like there were others who know my situation. I didn't want to give up because of my hurt feelings. I think it is sad when people quit posting because we all lose when that happens. You lose a different perspective, creative ideas, solutions, etc. I think we should all look at our posts and ask ourselves if we are offerring something helpful, and what we are bringing to the table, so to speak. You can disagree with someone without being snarky or condescending. We all have unique situations and I appreciate hearing other people's viewpoints, but I most want to hear those who have helpful advice, a positive fresh perspective, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, or encouragement. Keep on posting momtoemall..you rock...you took on a tough situation and it is highly evident how much you love ALL of your kids.

I don't think you should be taking care of the stepchildren when they are in the care of their father. I think HE should be taking care of them. Aside from obvious emergencies, like stopping a toddler from dashing into the street, which you presumably would do even if the child were a stranger, child care is the father's responsibility, as is cooking for them, cleaning up after them, etc.

In my state, one of the goals of child support is to make sure that neither parent has a higher standard of living than the child. If the father is living high off the hog because he is dependent on his new wife, then more of his income is disposable, and consequently more is available to go toward child support. If one parent chooses not to work, then his or her income should be imputed based on what he or she is capable of earning.

There is a happy medium between "loving a child like your own" and disliking them - a rather huge range as a matter of fact.

There are only 815,000 children in the United States living with their father and a stepmother, compared to five times that many living with a mother and stepfather, and about 20 times that many living with their mother only. There are 1,407,000 kids who live with their grandparents only. There are more kids living with other relatives only (not parents or grandparents) than there are living with their father and a stepmother.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p70-104.pdf

The father/stepmother living arrangement is really relatively uncommon, as is the situation of mothers abandoning their children. The situation of fathers abandoning their children, often before birth, is far more common.

I'm not saying that my situation is not as common as a dad leaving his kids. I am fully aware that it is more common to see a dead-beat dad than a dead-beat mom. In fact, if a dad is not working and having other kids with gf's a judge tells him to get off his lazy rear and find a job. But, my dh's ex sits on her rear making more babies and not working. So I guess dead-beat moms see more leniency that dead-beat dads when it comes to cs.

"I don't think you should be taking care of the stepchildren when they are in the care of their father. I think HE should be taking care of them. Aside from obvious emergencies, like stopping a toddler from dashing into the street, which you presumably would do even if the child were a stranger, child care is the father's responsibility, as is cooking for them, cleaning up after them, etc."

This is just STUPID! We are a FAMILY! This is not a situation where the kids are only with us a few nights a month. There are times when I work later and then my husband is home with all kids, including my biokid (his sk). I expect him to cook for and take care of my child the same as his own. There are times when he works later and I am home with them all and I do the same things for them all.

When we are all home we don't run our household as a "his kids" and "her kids" situation. They are all OURS. If my dh sees something that my biokid needs he takes care of it. If he sees my biokid doing wrong he has full authroity to handle the situation and give a time-out or whatever discipline is needed. The same applies with me and my sk's.

As far as higher standard of living, if my ex's gf became his wife I would not expect to get a percentage of her income or expect my ex to pay more because he is married to someone that is well off.

Oh momemall, did you see my post from a few weeks back? I pleaded for support for board members. I, too, was rather disappointed to see the amount of criticism and attacks given to many members. I mean, we all came here for a reason, right? I thought this was a SUPPORT board??? And, of course I agree w/ you on the taking care of skids while in your home. I mean, there were many times when my DH was away w/ one of his children and I was left w/ the other two. In the beginning, the BM in our case tried to prevent contact w/ us, but after awhile she probably looked forward to her weekend off and had no problem dropping them off or having me go get them - should I have not looked after them or refused them since DH was w/ one of the kids at an overnight sporting event/tournament? She KNEW they'd be w/ me as she scheduled all the tournaments for the girls - almost always on DH's weekend w/ them. Some couldn't be avoided, but others could have been. And, if it was her weekend w/ the kids and there was a tournament, you better believe she was crying to DH to take the girl - and he did...every time...

Some want to draw the line and maybe have no contact between a sm and the children. It's unrealistic and not healthy, assuming the second marriage is a good one and there's no abuse or anything going on, kids are treated well, etc. I can only imagine the pain of having the woman who seduced your husband later posing for family pics or holding your newborn, right lafevem, I think? (She handled it w/ grace, but I'm sure her stomach churned over it. She rose above, but some have not been able to move on. I know it's hard and I don't like to judge - I see everyone's pov, but the attacks are unnecessary.) However, that's why we're here - VENT TO US, but remember, WE ARE NOT THAT WOMAN!

Here's my other post from mid-July. I nearly left this forum a few times. I was kind of hoping to rally some other SMs into one of the other forums I found, but still, there are few or no responses to my posts dating back to April on them...

FROM JULY in response to southern's wedding post: A very wise lady, in every sense of the word, recently asked for some support during some difficult times. The thread went off on a tangent, but I think her wishes should be respected here. After all, we all came here for a reason - to vent (and it should be a safe place to do so), for advice, as therapy as writing does help get it all out, etc.
Rather than jump to clobber one another, form alliances: stepparents vs. bioparents vs. skids, we should appreciate the different perspectives and give a little room every now and then.

I'm a stepmom to grown children. Our history wasn't pretty but I see the light at the end of the tunnel shining through these days. I'm also a mom, in a sometimes shaky marriage, who can envision a biomom's perspective should my children ever be someone's stepsons. I try to see ALL points of view before lashing out. Maybe I don't do it all that well, but I do try.

I like this board because it's active. I joined another for stepparents, but it's very slow. Still another board where I'm still awaiting the first reply from my April ordeal!

Anyway, I just wish the attacking would cease. That's all I wanted to say. I'm not the other woman your husband left you for...I'm not the wicked stepmother from Cinderella...I'm not a stepchild trying to break up a marriage...I'm not a biomom too busy to raise her own kids but quick to criticize every thing the devoted stepmother is doing...I'm just a woman, trying her best to keep her family together, protecting the little ones, being a friend to the big ones, a shoulder to cry on, a matriarch (sounds like an old heavy set lady!) on whom all kids can depend on to make the holidays nice and their friends feel welcomed....just a woman trying to balance it all - work, marriage, children etc.

D

"There are only 815,000 children in the United States living with their father and a stepmother, compared to five times that many living with a mother and stepfather, and about 20 times that many living with their mother only. There are 1,407,000 kids who live with their grandparents only. There are more kids living with other relatives only (not parents or grandparents) than there are living with their father and a stepmother.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p70-104.pdf";

TOS-seriously, sister, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE?!?! Are you under the deluded impression that any of us here abandoned their children or that our DH's left his exie to be with us? Aside fromt the occasional 'my stepkids are driving me crazy' post, all of us here are loving and attentive and capable PARENTS!!!

Do you maybe think that more kids live with moms and stepdads becuse bitter hags like you are out to burn the ex-husbands at the stake? I'm seiously SOOO tired of your S***! You and kkny are so FREAKING *itchy, I'm sick of it! NOTHING us stepmoms do will ever meet any of your standards, you obviously know that so would you please HIT THE ROAD, and leave those of us here with a purpose ALONE!!!

Don't get on here and *itch about CS because you gave yours up so that your daughter can drive a luxury car. Don't get on here and tell me and others that your child's world shouldn't be rocked during divorce. HELLO!! Divorce under the best circumstances is going to rock their world. Does that mean they need to live in the same big house with a lexus? Hell, no! Plenty of us live in a comfortable house with an explorer in the driveway and get along just fine. I wonder if you're so intent on the standard of living remaining the same so that your kids want to stay with you and that way you don't have to deal with the fact that you've raised your kids to be shallow enough to live with
the parent who has the bigger house and the nicer car!!

and VISTAJPDF, God bless you for your hard work and encouragement. That's exactly what we need. More of you, less of kkny and tos. I'm just so fed up and on the brink of deleting this website from my favorites that I'm going to act less than my age and speak my mind.

Lord knows if I'll be back. Frankly, the opinions of kkny and tos have me ready to pull every last hair from my head. That kind of condescending attitude pushes me over the brink.

I hate to see anyone leave this board because of the words of a few people. People need to remember a few things:

1) All stepmothers are not evil, wicked or looking to cause pain to their new families.

2) All stepchildren are not lazy, selfish, slobby, greedy people who want to break up their parents' marriages.

3) All biomoms are not a) evil, cheating wenches who drove away their poor spouses and are now trying to ruin the lives of their DH's new family or b) overworked martyrs trying to make do on pennies per month while their DH spends oodles of money on his slutty new wife and her bratty kids.

It's tempting to apply your experiences to everyone else, but it simply does not work. My stepmother is a mentally unbalanced woman who has worked to isolate and separate my dad from his entire family. That doesn't mean I think that all stepmothers are like her.

I would love to have a stepmother like Mom2emall, whose obvious love of her stepchildren is a wonder to behold. Of course she can't NOT care for the children when they are in her house. She and her husband have created a home and family for the children in their care, without the thought of who they belong to. That's a lovely thing that should be commended, not ridiculed.

Sometimes I wish all of us on this board could meet in person for a cup of coffee and a day of talking. I'd love to meet Organic Maureen and Dana and Notsowicked and all the other women here. We need to be each other's friends and not attack just because someone is a SM or SK or BM. We're women. Let's pull together, not against one another.

I can't imagine sending my kids for visitation if my exH was going to be away overnight. Why would you choose to be away from your children? I can understand why you might have to take a child to college and not want to drag along all the little ones, or why you might have to go to a conference or something, but other than that, wouldn't you prefer to be with your children?

When our youngest was just a toddler, and was visiting him, my exH called me up and "threatened" to bring her home because she was crying about something - she didn't talk yet so who knows why. I never figured out why he thought I would mind in the least if he brought her home, or what the heck I was supposed to do about whatever she was crying about.

I am quite certain I have never complained about my H's wife's kids on this board. They were mostly gone or off at college when my kids were visiting, and one of them is apparently quite nice to my children. I feel bad for them because I know they were well aware that their mother invited a married man to live with them. I don't understand why their father apparently didn't object.

I do think that if the NCP marries into money, his disposable income and consequently child support should go up. This is especially true in situations like my own where he left a high paying career and managed to have child support reduced.

Most resources I have seen recommend that disciplining children be left to the biological parent.

I stand by my statement that the biological parent should be the primary caregiver of the biological children. If you want to split one or two particular chores, that is up to you; too many fathers dump all the childrearing responsibilities on their new wife, which does no one any good.

Unlike some of the SM's here, I have not called anyone names or demanded that they leave the board.

Yes, I do think that some, not all, of the posters here were the OW, and there are some others who are married to a man who left his wife and family for a relationship that didn't last. What I do not believe is that every SM here is married to a man whose wife left him for an OM.

I had chosen to take a break from this forum for a while do to the fact that every thing that came out of my mouth seemed to be wrong and I found myself getting angrier and angrier, and for what? This is a website on a computer, if I do not like what is being said about my feelings or my situation I can just as easily turn the monitor off and walk away. But I found myself stressing about the things that were said for a short time after I would go on with what I was doing. Vista is correct, we are attacking those who attack us doesn't that mean we are acting just as they are? That makes us no better.

A wise lady said we need to choose our battles!

As I don't feel like I can come here for the advice that I am so in need of, especially right about now. I will keep my problems to myself and only lend my opinion when it might apply to me.

I do have to say that we as SM or STBSM are no better then those who we accuse of bashing us if we sit back and call them names and degrade them. We are just stooping to a level that we shouldn't just as they shouldn't stoop to saying some of the things they do.

Hi TOS -
My DH's X had a 2-yr affair going with a coworker when she & DH separated. DH suggested counseling but she wouldn't go. She got together right away with her lover and they've been married now for six years. DH kept the two kids (15 & 18 at the time) with him b/c she wanted her freedom to be with her lover. I met DH over a year after his divorce papers were stamped by the court and I did not know DH before his separation and subsequent divorce.

This scenario, however, has not kept the X from playing "victim" with the kids and DH & I believe they have no idea about her affair with their present SF. My SKs vaccilate back & forth about their acceptance of me, depending upon if they are in communication with BM at the time or not. So this has been a rollercoaster ride from Day One for me & DH.

Bottomline is that even though I might be living by the rules you have established for divorce & remarriage time limits, dating, court paperwork, etc. I'm still living in a bad situation trying to maintain a loving and caring home for DH and for my SKs when they visit. This message board is a god-send for those of us who truly desire support and encouragement.

It may be fair to say that all of we SMs are doing the best we can right now. It would be good to keep in mind that women who may have made some huge mistakes in their past commonly learn new behaviors and change for the better as they get older. But that usually doesn't happen without some good role-models. I do not believe that ladies who have made some big mistakes in the past cannot change for the better and my suggestion is that we leave a little leeway for that.

It's not easy to live in a consistently black & white world - so, thankfully, there's a color called "grey" - It gives us a wonderful opportunity to see things from other persons' perspectives - which can be a good thing for all of us. And, in my opinion, this message board with SMs, BMs, and adult SKs offers a fantastic opportunity for growth sweetened by encouragement, support and constructive criticism.

Hi notwicked. I agree that a message board with sms, bms, and adult sks offeres a fantastic opportunity for growth with support, encouragement, and CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Constructive being the key word. I would LOVE to hear CONSTRUCTIVE advice from bm's, but the NONSENSE like "I should not love the sk's that I raise full-time as my own", or that "I should leave the parenting of my sk's to my dh 100%" is not necessary. (nor is it even good advice) I feel that SOME bm's on here are using the forum as a way to "get back" at stepmoms because they were wronged by their exs.

Those bm's are welcome to post their gripes and vent their anger about their husbands current wife or gf. I am sure that us sm's would sympathicize and be here to offer advice and support. But instead they are responding to sm's posts by badgering sm's on here because of their own hatred for the woman in their ex's life. It is not fair, nor is it productive.

As others have stated this forum is one of the few active forums and I would hate to leave or see many of the wonderful people on here leave.

I do have sympathy for the bm's who were wronged by their ex's. I am a woman and an ex myself! My relationship with my ex did not end well either. But, they also have to be able to see our side and the hardships that sm's go through, instead of coming down on us for our efforts.

Honestly, I did think that I was going into my marriage "eyes wide open", but kids-whether bio or step-are not easy to raise. Throwing another woman, who has and is playing mind games with the kids and doing things just to aggrevate me, does make things harder. I love my dh, and that is why I come here to vent my frustrations about the situation, instead of making him feel bad and frustrated. Of course we talk about the big things, but I like to come here for the small things that bother me. Typing on here and hearing similar problems with others has been therapeutic to me.

So, I am just asking that bm's on here please offer HELPFUL advice instead of telling me and other sm's to use a "stay-away" approach with our sk's. Like it or not, our sk's lives are our business and we are an IMPORTANT member of their family.

Mom2emall -
I'm glad to hear that you are going to hang in here on the board. We all have some wisdom to share from what we've learned from our situations. Some of us just seem to have to go through the "valleys" longer than others - for whatever reason.

Like you wrote, SMs can absolutely have empathy & compassion for BMs but I believe it's hard to feel those emotions when the BMs are stuck in a hateful groove and don't seem to have any desire to get out.

The point is that we are all humans with foibles and good points - good and bad characteristics. Let's all agree to focus on bringing out our good characteristics in support of those who might be struggling with a bad day. Hopefully, the ladies who are having a hard time healing from past/present hurts will heal faster if they remain on the board where they can get support and encouragement like the rest of us.
Blessings!

Every article I have read on discipline in stepfamilies states that it should be the job of the biological parent, especially early on. If my suggestion that this is the case is unhelpful, then so is the advice of every stepparenting site I could find.

Not that this has anything to do with discipline, but one of the articles I ran across quoted a teen as saying that her father asked her permission before he married, which made her feel more valued.

http://teenagerstoday.com/resources/articles/stepfamilies.htm

My opinions on who should be disciplining the kids has little to do with my exH's new wife, since she doesn't see most of the kids and consequently can't discipline them - unless you count berating them in public the once or so a year that she sees them.

TOS: I too have read articles that say the bio parent should handle the discipline early on so the child can form a relationship with their sp. I do have a bond with my sk's and we did not start out with me disciplining.

Most articles on blended families do say that both the bioparent and the stepparent in the house need to be united and agree and enforce the same rules.. I have not read an article that says the sp should "stand back" forever and never be able to tell the child what to do???

Here is one such article:

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art25033.asp

I don't really understand why this problem crops up so frequently. I just asked my kids when the last time was that I punished any of them, and none of my kids could remember - so I guess it has been awhile.

I can only speak for myself when I say this, but when I refer to discipline I am not only referring to punishments (grounding or time-outs) but I am also referring to simple reminders about household rules or behavior. For instance if my dh or I see one of the kids leaving dirty clothes on their floor, or not putting their dishes in dishwasher we remind them to do so (whether that child is bio or step). I feel that it would be silly for me to run and tell my dh to go tell one of my sk's to pick up their clothes if I was the one who was just there and noticed it or vice versa. And if the kids do something that warrants a punishment my husband or I can give the punishment whether it is our bio or stepkid. We are on the same page with that and rarely do we disagree on those types of things. And the kids know that they need to behave all the time, not just when their bioparent is right there.

I believe the biological parent can "deputize" someone - a babysitter, grandmother, stepparent - to remind the children of his/her rules if she or he isn't there, but what the rules are is up to the biological parent, and should be consistent with the rules that were present when the family was intact, taking into account the fact that changes may be necessary for older children. Any punishment such as grounding should be decided upon and administered by the biological parent.

People, whether in their first on second marriages, should discuss their parenting styles before they marry. Major differences are a big red flag.

To mom2emall -
I think the imperative phrase that you mentioned - "on the same page" is a very important aspect. It truly is up to the individuals in the marriage to decide what works best in their particular family arrangement. It is my belief that younger children, in particular, feel more secure in a home where the adults present a united front and cooperate with one another, thereby teaching the children through example that both adults are in charge of their welfare and well-being.

If they had the same rules they did as an intact family ... OMG.. you are not for real?

So they should be going to bed when ever they want sleeping in the family bed being disrespectful and rude to everyone they come near? Never doing homework being suspended from school on a weekly if not daily basis? You are not serious?

Again WE enforce the rules of the house... their father has told them what punishment will be I do not punish I enforce the rules of the house. Punishment waits till father comes home I tell him of the days events and dishes out the punishment if needed.

We did go over parenting styles ... My advice ... get some structure in your life and in your children or I cannot do this. If you can't do this for me then do it for them you are not doing them any favors by letting them run the show. He asked for some basic rules he could easily/quickly enforce (bedtime and holding them accountable for their actions at school) and I sent him on his way a month later called back and said getting them to bed at a set time was the most difficult.

"So they should be going to bed when ever they want sleeping in the family bed being disrespectful and rude to everyone they come near? Never doing homework being suspended from school on a weekly if not daily basis?"

Yes, if that is the way he and his wife had decided to raise them. Except for the family bed part - that is inappropriate when one of the parents in the family bed is not biological, and quite possibly could result in accusations of sexual abuse. Our kids slept in our bed until they were weaned, but I wouldn't want them in someone else's. It is not fair to the children to change the parenting style such as suddenly instituting bedtimes where there were none before. Only my youngest has a bedtime, and it is not cast in stone. She usually will look at the clock and announce "oh, it's my bedtime," and head off for bed. Sometimes I will tell my older kids that they really should go to bed. Sometimes they will tell me that I really should go to bed.

If they are getting in trouble at school, it is the father's and mother's responsibility to get to the bottom of the issue, and even possibly find a more appropriate school.

They were 5,6, and 9!!! And still do it at their mothers. They are 8, 9 and 12!!

Myself as a single mom working all day ... I needed "adult" time whether it was sitting reading undisturbed or watching mind numbing tv. I needed time for me. And I only had 2 children so I had a set bedtime. Children need sleep and so did I. He was stressed overwhelmed with 4 children and no help. He didn't have to take my advice he could have just kept going the way he was. Was it working for him I would have to say no. Thats why he changed the rules. If it was working for him he didn't have to make any changes could have just kept going the way he was...

They had switched schools the 9 yr old and 11 yr old had been kicked out the school they were attending. The 8 and 9 yr old repeated a grade because they were suspended from school too many times kindergarten and first grade.

Bedtimes work well for some, perhaps most, families. My little ones had a bedtime when they had to get up early for school. For many years, they had a bedtime because I had to get up at 5:30, and it is inconvenient and dangerous for preschoolers to be up when their parents are asleep. Not everyone finds it necessary to enforce a bedtime, especially in the summer. Before kids, we were visiting a friend whose preschooler came up to him around 9:00 and said, "I want to go to bed now." I was shocked at the time that the little boy didn't have a bedtime, but it worked for them. At various times it has worked for us. I personally don't need much "adult" time, and if I did, I get time alone in the morning before the kids are up.

I believe that if the rules change when someone new comes into their CP's life, the children will be resentful

I didn't first graders could get suspended. There must have been more going on that lack of bedtimes. Are the children on IEP's?

At least in my state, first graders can certianly be suspended. In my son's class last year (kindergarten) a little girl was suspended for beating up on another child. There is a zero violence policy in our district. No, she wasn't on an IEP...she doesn't need to be....her mom is an acquaintance of mine and I could have told her school was not going to go easy for her daughter. She had been taught no structure and didn't listen to her parents, so why should she listen to a teacher? If a child is on an IEP, they cannot be suspended for any more than 10 days during a school year, so administration is very leary of suspending children on an IEP. They usually end up in In school suspension. BTW...many kids are on IEP's for a learning disability that in no way affects their ability to control impulses, so that is not always an excuse.

I don't want to get into a debate about bedtimes, because if you don't agree with them, this thread isn't going to make you a believer. But for those who are new to parenting or on the fence about the bedtime issue, sleep is vital to a child's overall well being. When I have conferences with parents about a child who is misbehaving in class, one of the first things I talk about is routine and what time the child goes to bed. There has been extensive research proving children who do not get enough sleep at night have more discipline problems in school. This is especially true if the child is diagnosed with ADD or ADHD. Sleep for these children is VITAL! When I show parents the chart from the Health Department detailing how much sleep a child needs at each stage, many are shocked. I can see them start to mentally calculate how many hours their child sleeps, and they begin to understand their children are sleep deprived. For anyone having behavioral problems with your children, check their sleep amounts. It is really enlightening.

We definitely have different rules at our house than in BM's home. These are rules my DH had when he lived in the home, but when she kicked him out, she started doing her own thing. I am not going to get into the differences in homes because this isn't a thread about BM bashing. But, the rules are different. We are also Christians, and her mom and step-dad are atheists so there are fundamental differences in the things taught in our homes. We have the girls on weekends and they go to church with us on Sunday. BM tried to take DH back to court and have an order put in place that said he couldn't take the kids to church (he was not a Christian when they were married...he converted while they were separated). The judge told her no way...my DH had every right to take the kids to church...and the judge thought it would be good for them. So, the rules are different and I have read MANY step-parent books and advice columns and they all say that is normal and that you should explain to the child Mommy has one way of doing things and we have another.

I disciplined my SD's in the beginning against my better judgement and advice given to us because my DH didn't want to be the bad guy all the time. I saw it was causing strain so I stepped back and now DH does it. I try to bring only issues that are really bothering me (choose my battles..thanks to the advice of many posters here), so that he is only addressing the things that bother me most.

The final thing I would like to say is I think it is important to protect your "adult time" single or married. Particularly if you are married, you and your spouse NEED that time to be a couple and re-engage with one another. Don't make the mistake of being the parent who gives everything to her children (bio or step) and having nothing left for your spouse. During the school year, all of our little ones are in bed by 8:00 and it is great to just be able to sit and BE with my DH. We can talk, watch TV, read or whatever, but it an important connection time.

Lack of sleep ... is a major disruption in life. Not just in children but in adults as well.

Do you want to be on a plane where the pilot hasn't had enough sleep? or traveling down the highway with a trucker who has not slept? Do you want the bus driver picking up your child if they hadn't slept the night before?

The oldest of the 3 would be up till 2 am and up again at 5:30am. And he would keep the others up fighting with them. Was extremely aggressive and many other issues. Yes there was other stuff going on there parent's had just divorced. And there weren't any consequences for any behaviors good or bad. They just did what they wanted to do when they wanted to do it. Yes they had IEP's nothing diagnosed. Once they started sleeping each night the school problems dimished.

Enough debating sleep issue. Children and adults need sleep end of story.

Apparently he wanted to change because he did.

Here is a link that might be useful: Why do we have to sleep?

I saw major changes in my classroom when children began to get enough sleep. It really is amazing. Now..I will drop it...lol.

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/yourchild/sleep.htm

I really like this article. I think I willl print it and put it into my Meet the Teacher packets...lol. It talks a great deal of a routine, structure, and sleep...ok I am stopping now.

Lavefm... Until mom started using a bedtime as well... the children would get "in trouble" the day after being at her house. After numerous times of them being "in trouble" hubby told her unless they get enough sleep they will be "in trouble" and if its the day you drop them off at school you will be "dealing with it" Picking them up spending the rest of the day with them until he gets home from work.... Next time it happend he called her said he's suspended go get him she did ... and took him to a museum and the park a week later same child got "suspended" She picked him up again after dad called ... when the child was in the office he told the principal ... call my mom I want to go the park and museum again. The principal had a one on one with mom in her office about consequences and the child was suspended was for an additional day. That was one of the last times she picked any of them at school for being suspended. She "couldn't believer her child would embarass her like that".

Good for that principal for being willing to address mom and question her behavior. Saved your DH from having to do it for once..lol!

Young children are amazingly adaptable - they quickly learn the boundaries at each place - whether it's BM's house, BF's/SM's house, grandparents' houses, school, etc. They are incredible little humans! :)

She had been taught no structure and didn't listen to her parents, so why should she listen to a teacher?

This was a great universal statement .. It applies to any child... at any age.

It just gets sickening repeating yourself to someone who believes she is mother of the year. When I first starting seeing hubby she called me up screaming because I told her children I didn't like their rude behavior while visiting my family. She flipped out how dare I say that to them. I said had you been any kind of mother they would not have to be told their behavior was unacceptable.

I'll define their rude behavior ... Here's the scenario eating at the dinner table with 5 other children. They complained they didn't like the food (hamburgers on whole wheat buns), They threw food at each other, put more ketchup on the table than his burger, and then licked the table. They were talking with food in their mouths so it was spitting all over the table. One sneezed all over the food. Another coughed all over the food. Another sat picking his nose. They screamed at each other. Kicked each other under the table. Asked why do I have to eat this crap? was told you don't my sister took his plate away.

I made my apologies to my family and we left. They have not been invited to dinner again.

This reminds me of something that happened to us last year. My oldest SD has a friend she has been very close with since she was 11 years old. She is 17 now. The friend's mother is a mutual friend of my DH and I from long before we even began to date. Initially, my DH would deal with the friend's mom about plans for the kids, but if he wasn't available she would call and talk to BM. When Dh and I got married, the friend's mom started calling me to talk about the kids and also plans for them (going to movies, etc). We would also talk about teenage angst and issues with the kids. At one point, my DH and SD were having a bad time and my SD was being extremely rude to my DH. Because this friend's mom had knows my SD for so long, she try to encourage my SD to make ammends with her father. Well, my SD went home and started telling her mom about it and BM called the friend's mom and started going off on her about minding her business and she had no right to tell my SD to mend fences, etc. Then, she goes on to say that if she has something to say about my SD she should call her because she is the BM and lafevem is nothing. Friend's mom goes, NO..I will continue to lafevem because from what I see she is the parent and you do whatever you can to shift your parental responsibilities on to her. So, I will continue to converse with who I feel is the real parent. Needless to say, BM hasn't called her back. She didn't enjoy being put in her place, but she sure enjoys trying to put others into theirs.

Hi cawfecup -
Not to minimize your frustration and embarrassment but, unfortunately, this seems like a fairly common scenario for young children these days. This is America - the land of plenty - so plenty, in fact, that children do not seem to learn gratefulness. Entitlement is the name of the game presented under the guise of self-esteem.

Maybe we can become more cognizant of the art of gratefulness instead of taking the good in our lives for granted so much of the time. I know I am guilty a lot about neglecting to be more conscious of the blessings in my life. It just seems so much easier to complain and be negative. Plus, it can give us a powerful feeling to be angry - it energizes us for a battle. Gratefulness brings us peace and contentment and causes us to cooperate with others.

Maybe you can begin to play a "gratefulness game" with the children daily, thereby training them to look at the glass as "half-full" instead of "half-empty". Sure might not hurt to attempt to learn to "look for the silver lining" :)

lavefm... Must have felt pretty good to hear the other half of that conversation.

That scenario was a long time ago. The children have learned there is a polite way to decline something you don't like. No thank you I am not hungry. No thank you I already ate. I do not like ______ but can I have more of ______. I also do a "buffet dinner" they pick what they like but atleast have to try one of something I make before they say they do not like it. Took a long time but it has been accomplished.

I pick my battles and move on :).

Right now we are working on ... its not what you say its how you say it. Tone of voice, mannerisms etc.

Good for you! Lucky kids to have such wonderful manners being taught them.

Not everyone agrees that suspension is appropriate for elementary school children:

"I think exclusion of any kind -- exclusion, suspension out of school, suspension in school -- is harmful to elementary students and says more about the weak school climate, limited resources, and the lack of adult capacity to address student needs than anything else."

Quote from http://www.education-world.com/a_issues/chat/chat082.shtml

I don't think anyone in my town's elementary school has ever been suspended. Actually my kids don't personally know anyone who has been suspended, at any level.

In my state, if a child is on an IEP, and is still suspended, the school has to continue to educate them in some setting.

TOS....your posts on this thread are what others are talking about when they feel attacked and question what your motives are in posting. This thread began because the OP was upset by feeling attacked on this board. She went on to say how she took care of the children like a mom, but was being told by some posters that she shouldn't love the children. So, instead of a concillatory attitude, your first post in this thread went off on a rant about how only fathers should be watching the kids when it is their visitation. Maybe that is the best case scneario, but just isn't feasible in most situations. Then, several posters (vista and lily) tried to get the post back on topic, but your next post goes on with more statistics and how dads should have full responsibility for the care of the kids. Then, several posters try again to get the post back on the topic of being constructive in our posts, and your next post is about how we shouldn't discipline the skids and a link to an article on the fact and how your ex and his wife berated the children in public. By this time, many of us allow ourselves to become baited by your comments (myself included) and start arguing about sleep schedules, if children can be susupended from school (cawfe's post wasn't about being susupended from school....it happened...so obviously it can be done in her skids school....whether or not your children know anyone who has been susupended is irrelevant...she was making a point that had nothing to do with being suspended from school...she was discussing BM's behavior when son was suspended...why did this become a forum about appropriateness of suspension...but I bought into it as well...my bad), if it is OK to have different rules in each home (of course it is going to happen, we don't share a brain with BM and her new DH....we are individuals and therefore going to tolerate things differently). Now the thread is completely off topic and has become yet another thread with a you and SM's bickering about things that have no relevance to the original post. That is the point of the OP. I almost said this has become another thread with a BM arguing with SM, but that isn't true, because I am both. I was a BM long before becoming a SM (as many other posters were) so we have the capability of seeing both sides.

Anyway, thank you to the OP who asked for kindness, compassions, and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. I think we are all longing for that, and in addition we should try to keep the original intent of the post in mind when we are posting. Sorry I allowed myself to get involved with the off topic blather...I will work hard to not do that in the future.

Everyone of my posts is in response to a previous post. There is no requirement that posts have to be in response to the one immediately preceding it; as a matter of fact occasionally posters are typing simultaneously. Of course threads don't always stick closely to the original topic - THAT IS WHAT A CONVERSATION IS! Posters have brought up politics, NASCAR, and a variety of other topics that are in some way related, sometimes rather distantly. Anything that relates to raising children is relevant to a forum such as this. If you find the subject matter boring or irrelevant, you have the option of not responding.

And just as an example, how is asking whether the children were on an IEP unhelpful or attacking? Lafevem, you don't think that behavior in a child in kindergarten that warrants repeated suspensions might be a symptom of a problem that should be addressed by an IEP, such as PTSD, etc.? You wouldn't question the administration's judgment if a little child on an IEP were suspended repeatedly, during which time he received no educational services? I was not "attacking" the poster - it seems to me that the school system's to the children's behavior problems, or lack of response, was inadequate and inappropriate.

By reading the responses this is probably still off topic but....

Unfortunately, due to circumstances that have happened in these recent years ... schools of all levels (especially in my county) have a zero tolerance policy for almost everything.

It does not matter what or who started the fight but both students get suspended.. this inlcudes elementary school age kids... there have been instances where elementary school students have been expelled for having a box cutter... undeniably something an elementary school age child shouldnt have but to be expelled for making a mistake and snatching something from their parents that they thought was interesting?! highly over reacting... suspensions are an every day practice for most schools ... they would rather make the problem go away than to solve the problem at hand... even, ironically enough, the consequence for skipping school is being suspended from school ... because that makes a great deal of sense

elementary school age suspension is quite common especially now when schools are so scared of something terrible happening that they tend to over react and in some cases ruin a childs life long term....

ie a 5 year old being arrested because she threw a fit at school ... you cant tell me that you could not find another way to handle a 5 year old rather than arresting her.

Hi TOS -
I have not participated on the board very long but I can truthfully say that I have benefitted from some of your replies to my posts and would like to see you continue to post here.

Lately, however, you have become more consistent about diverting from the original subjects. I may be wrong but it appears to me that you are doing this for the purpose of causing division and controversy rather than being helpful.

Surely you are aware of this by the number of women who have written in frustration over the past several days. It is obviously your choice to continue in this manner or not.

My suggestion is that you consider opening up a totally new thread when you'd like to divert from the original subject. That way, any others who are interested in debating your statistics may do so without interrupting the subject flow of the original post.

It is obviously your choice to follow this suggestion or not but I hate to see it get to the point where no one will reply to your posts any longer and you will find yourself completely shunned.

I know I am feeling close to shunning you myself at this point and it would be a shame b/c I have found some of your past answers to my posts to be beneficial, positive, supportive and helpful. Please give my suggestion some thought.
Blessings!

Notwicked...I agree wholeheartedly. If any of us have a new issue we want to discuss, we should begin a new thread in respect to the person who posted the original question who really wants their concerns addressed. I am the first to admit I have been guilty of going off on tangents that had nothing to do with the original post, and I apologize to the original posters I may have offended. I am going to work diligently to only reply to posts where I have something to add that applies to the original post.

It's simple. Bio Moms need to stay in their lane. If a Step Mom or Step Dad is asking advice, a Bio Mom is not qualified to answer. Period.

Only other Steps have the practical experience to answer. At the very least, if a bio mom feels compelled to reply, the reply should be helpful and based soley on a similar experience in their own step family.

Anything else is just conjecture.

Amen and Amen.

I think everyone, including biological parents and stepchildren, may have something to contribute, and not necessarily directly through their own experience.

If I posted on a forum seeking advice on an issue among my children, I wouldn't request that only parents of very large families respond.

As a matter of fact, I sometimes ask my adult daughters for advice, although they haven't raised any teenagers yet. Sometimes they actually give good advice. And if, after consideration, I disagree with their advice, I simply ignore it.

If I may post a differing point of view: I often find even the "attack" posts helpful, if for no other reason than to get a glimpse into the mind of someone who is just plain mad as he** and lashing out.

I deal with someone like that -- my stepmother -- who takes offense at the slightest transgression, nurses a grudge like a mother nurses her young, and never misses a chance to point fingers and play the victim.

When I see a posted topic that lays out a position that sounds logical, with a simple request for feedback, I'm almost eager to see what the "attackers" are going to say. Negative Nellies are often hard to read and they never fail to surprise me in their response. Then I apply that response to my stepmother (others might apply it to DH's ex, etc.) and I begin to see just where stepfamilies go so horridly wrong.

Through this board, I've discovered one thing that I always keep in the front of my mind now:

A nuclear family is the most natural thing in the world. Everyone in it comes from a basis of love -- a parent's love for child, a wife's love for her husband, a husband's love for his wife, a child's love for his parents -- it all works, mostly, in harmony. A stepfamily is created from the pieces of that which has been broken. It's not surprising that it doesn't glue together properly every single time. Dad falls in love with wife, who doesn't automatically love his children. Said children wish mum and dad would just get back together and definitely does not love stepmum. No one, it seems, is prepared to offer the unconditional love, acceptance and forgiveness that is found in the traditional family.

Those who do, such as Dana, often struggle with the task because others in the new family do not try as hard. The whole mixture breeds anger, bitterness and resentment and that's where the attack posters come from.

I suggest looking at attack posters as the bitter spice in your cupboard. You don't always use it, a full measure might make you retch, but used in the right way it brings a balance to a recipe.

Even if that balance is a little unbalanced. (wink, wink)

Very well spoken LilySuzanne as usual.

The learning experience from this board has been invaluable.

I totally agree with LillySuzanne. Her statment is the full truth regarding step family living. I too, have learned alot from this board and it has helped me to grow. Thanks to everyone who has responded to my questions! Bless you, everyone.