main breaker box near bed. little one on the way
jks55
12 years ago
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petey_racer
12 years agoionized_gw
12 years agoRelated Discussions
Fire in breaker box, pics
Comments (14)If you had a picture of the inside of the box, I could make a better asessment of what happened. Whatever, the root cause, an arc got started and engaged the door. That may look like something that cooked for awhile, but I have seen tests and know that this amount of damage can be done in a fraction of a second to a couple of seconds. The main breaker should have tripped - maybe that was component that failed. An arc of that magnitude should have blown the fuses at the distrubution transformer. This may have been the component that stopped the arc. This is on a pole feeding the service entrance wires, or it would be inside a pedastal box at ground level for underground distribution wires. A failure like this can be triggered by a lightening hit, or it can be due to failed connections. Sometimes, it is a bad breaker. If a breaker has been tripped due to a heavy short, most manufacturers state that the breaker should be replaced. The insulation quality inside a breaker may be compromised after opening in a big short. It could have sustained arc and heat damage to metal parts, espacially the bi-metal parts that control tripping on overloads lasting more than a few seconds. Very likely, the main breakers should be replaced. In fact, if the backside of the box is damaged, the entire box and breaker set should be replaced. Aluminum wire is problematic. After installation, the wire can creep loosening in the connector and then heating. Anytime aluminum wire is connected to a breaker, the wire lug should be re-tightend a week later. Also, the connector must have been tested and approved for use with aluminum wire. Disaster may happen if an aluminum wire is connected to a lug qualified for copper only....See MoreMain breaker panel as subpanel
Comments (39)"""""Unless you do the test with the actual wiring and fault it repeatedly to adjust everything it is NOT going to work""""" """"This is a very application dependent item, not anything a lab can do for you. """" It�s like beating a dead horse.... This will be the last time I am going to try to explain this to you because I am not getting it through to you. I guess square D, engineering firms and hospitals do this kind of thing for fun and like to spend 7, 10 or 20K on things that don't work. You are only talking in opinion. Please provide your comments with some articles that a selective coordination study is bogus from a reputable source? You say you have seen all these issues but provide not details as to the specs or conditions it was under. It�s almost an insult and as if you�re saying the engineer who performs these studies is performing a job that serves no purpose. What else are you stating that can't be duplicated at a test site???? You can get the resistance of the wire, the temp, weather conditions, motor torques, load, time ran, splice types, terminations, age etc. During the study the engineer should get plans that show your entire setup. If there is something odd then they will review that and take it further into consideration. If someone doesn't do a spice correctly that is an incorrect installation, but if you take into account the available AIC at the site and spec your breaker correctly it will open without damage. The amount of time and calcs is why it cost thousands and thousands of dollars. Let�s take one common sense note, if it�s BS then why does the code require it in certain instances? Once again the study will take into effect the amount of available current and if done correctly will match the equipment to this. You say that a lab can't duplicate the field conditions???. Some labs test some of their gear at 200% in some instances. Take a look at MGE gear and see what they do upon testing/commissioning. So if you are in the field and a splice fails or a phase to phase short and the breaker blows off the wall or does something off normal then you better start looking at who designed it or setup the settings, because in MOST (not all) cases it wasn't correctly installed to handle the fault. Please before you go any further please read the link I added. It is an example of a study and it is from cooper/bussman. Look at page 1 number two on "SHORT CIRCUIT STUDY" I do hope you understand this better and that this helps clear things up for you. """"""Ever seen conductors move under fault current? You should see power lines jumps. """"" I have a lot of experience in high voltage and yes the air can become a conductor. Where are you going with this? Here is a link that might be useful: READ THIS LINK! Example of a study and what it includes...See MoreFederal Pacific Electric breaker box
Comments (7)Here is a link. FPE breakers and panels are both subject to more than the average number of problems. The breakers are legendary for the amount of overload they will endure and not trip, if in fact the breaker will trip at all. Many of these breakers just burn up when overloaded. The Stab-Loc buss allows breakers to be inserted incorrectly and for the contact on the breaker to be easily bent. I've removed many panels where a poor contact between the breaker and buss have been a near-fire experience. Further, although new breakers can be had for the panel, you will find the cost 4 or 5 may often exceed the price of a new panel - plus. GFCI and AFCI breakers aren't available, or haven't been. And, after replacing the branch circuit breakers there's still the matter of having a main braker thet is 30+ years old. A replacement for these generally isn't available, or isn't available new, and certainly isn't a common stock item - A real blessing if it fails during a cold snap, holidays, relatives visiting, etc., etc. For what it's worth, the company that owns Square D (NOT GE!) bought the remains of FPE and still manufactures the junk in Canada, and indeed have had a recall up there for breakers that wouldn't trip. The same company manufactures the breakers sold here for whoever currently holds the license for the name use and design. I used to keep breakers from old FPE panels to use when I ran into people who needed work done on FPE equipment and just absolutely didn't have the money to get it replaced. Nowdays I smash all removed breakers with a hammer. Let's just say I donate a bit back to the community every year and folks with FPE issues and money trouble might benefit from some of this. Anyway, I won't work on/in FPE panels any more. I just see too much liability. Rant over: Just do yourself a favor and get the panel updated with something that is currently manufactured and will have parts available at most big box and neighborhood hardware stores....See MoreCan you rearrange a breaker box?
Comments (11)"you would be frequently right on the edge of exceeding your capacity." I wouldn't say "frequently." Even with an electric water heater and stove, you seldom have everything running at one time. And the breakers for these items are larger than the actual load, sometimes much larger. A 3-ton 16 SEER air conditioner will use only around 10-12 amps (for 12 SEER, more like 15 amps). And only in the very hottest weather will it run all the time; normally it will cycle on and off. A range might use 45 amps with all the elements and the oven on 100%, but how often do you have them all on at full power at the same time? Even for Thanksgiving dinner, once the turkey's roasting, the oven is cycling on and off. Once you've brought the water for the potatoes to a boil, you lower the heat to simmer. A typical water heater will use less than 20 amps, and again, only until the water is hot. In most cases, if your service's original load calculation was done properly and you haven't added too much since, and if your 120 volt loads are reasonably well balanced across both side of the line, you're very unlikely to have problems. In more than 6 decades of life, I've lived with 60 amp and 100 amp mains, never 200 or more. With varying combinations of gas and electric appliances, I've never had a main breaker in my house trip. As an aside, it's a different story in Europe. There you can request a lower limited capacity from the utility, and your electricity cost will be lower. So, homeowners tend to undersize their services. Although 12 kilowatt (60 amp main) service is becoming common in France, there are still plenty of people on 6 kilowatt and 9 kilowatt services. Three kilowatts isn't too unusual in Spain. Now that electric vehicles are becoming common there, this has become more of a nuisance. So some of the EVSEs for them (called wallboxes there) have built in load management devices that monitor total household load, and throttle the EV's charger to prevent overloading the service....See Moreelectricalkid
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