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betsyhac

Update on Vintage Wallpaper

betsyhac
11 years ago

Well, I spoke too soon. When I wrote my previous update, the paper hadn't dried all the way yet and when it did, the seams stayed a vertical brown line. There was a brown tinge on the ends of the rolls and, thus, on the edges of the paper. This came through at the seams. In addition, he overlapped the seams incorrectly (left over right, rather than right over left), so there is a thin grey line running vertically and the pictures don't blend together. Yes, I should have put the readers on and inspected the job more closely right away, but it wouldn't have changed the fact that it was done incorrectly. When I questioned this, he said that once he had the first sheet up, he couldn't change it.

I could live with the incorrect overlap I guess, but the brown is horrible. (Pics below)

I've written to Rosie's Vintage Wallpaper, but haven't heard back yet.


The paper hanger says that he wants me to be happy and will fix it and wants to know what I want to do. I wondered if the paper just couldn't be trimmed on each side to eliminate the brown, but he didn't know how to do that and have the pattern align; and he thinks that the paper is too frail to be able to do such a thing.

I'm so disappointed and discouraged. $400 invested in this already, not to mention my time, and I'm going to have to not only have it redone, but removed. I swear - it is so freakin hard to find people to do work correctly. Why didn't he stop and talk to me about the brown? Why didn't he pull that first piece off or, if he couldn't, talk to me about that? He was a nice guy - but incompetent to a certain degree. HE is supposed to be the pro. He did a nice job cutting and fitting it around the edges, but I just don't get why he would pretend the other problems didn't exist. Do I have to completely educate myself about every little aspect of a project and then hover while it's being done? (Sorry; rant over)

Let this be a warning to anyone else who considers vintage paper.

{{!gwi}}

{{!gwi}}

Comments (46)

  • Oakley
    11 years ago

    I feel your pain. For what it's worth, anytime you use a paper with a white background the seams will show and eventually brown. I don't know why. I was told that when I hung my WP in the bathroom, with a white background. The seams did show but they weren't noticeable until a couple of years later.

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    11 years ago

    From looking at the closeup, it looks as if the seams were meant to lap and then cut through both papers...then the brown will be cut off and the pattern will match exactly....

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  • peaches12345
    11 years ago

    We've hung white background paper many times and never have had brown edges. This paper is vintage and Rosie must not have had it wrapped properly to preserve the edges? Not excusing your paperhanger in that he even started hanging it after he had seen the brown edges, but he is right that if he had trimmed the edges the pattern wouldn't have matched correctly. He would have had to cut away too much pattern looking at how much browning there is in your photos.

    How much 'overlap' did he do? Hung correctly the seams should just abutt each other perfectly with little if any overlap. I have navy and white toile in my dining room right now that has been up over 10 years and the seams are perfect- no browning and you almost have to feel with your hand to know where the seams are.

    I'm so sorry this hasn't worked out for you.

  • palimpsest
    11 years ago

    I think it kind of adds something.

  • peaches12345
    11 years ago

    Annie- I see what you mean on the closeups about overlapping and cutting to match pattern, but the browning is so unven I don't think that would have worked well anyway as too much would have had to be cut away in some places and then of course the whole strip would have had to be cut that much to hang straight.

  • palimpsest
    11 years ago

    I posted before I had a complete thought written down.

    I think the brown edges make it look genuine. It is vintage paper after all. If you want something that looks brand new, maybe you should consider new paper with a vintage pattern. Your options will be limited, but it's out there.

  • peaches12345
    11 years ago

    Good point, pal. I hadn't thought of that. (:

  • My3dogs ME zone 5A
    11 years ago

    I agree with Pal, and just to play devil's advocate - did the paper hanger know that you hadn't seen the brown edges on the paper? Since you had purchased vintage paper, he may have thought that was part of the overall look desired. Often older paper IS dry and brown on the edges and quite frail.

    Since he did the cutting around trim, etc, well, I suspect that he thought this was part of the vintage look desired. If there was a discussion between you before starting, with you pointing out that you didn't want the brown edges, then that would be a problem, but if there wasn't, he was hanging the paper as purchased.

  • Fori
    11 years ago

    It does look like it's been there forever.

  • annzgw
    11 years ago

    That's how I remember wallpaper looking (over 50 yrs ago) in the old farm houses my relatives lived in. If you're going for authentic, I think you've got it! ;)

    I don't understand why he couldn't change the direction of the overlap after he hung the first sheet but the link below explains there is a selvage that needs to be trimmed on vintage paper......plus, you need to use a certain paste.

    Here is a link that might be useful: wallpaper

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    11 years ago

    As its hung, it's not correct...brown edges or not. This is not paper that was printed to the edge, but pulled back some. If overlapped properly and then cut through both layers you would get a precise seam with no overlap....you might still have some brown edge, but it would be much better. (as you cut, if you waver, it wavers consistently through both layers for an exact match...I've done this with matching fabric....I've seen this in vinyl flooring as well.)

  • betsyhac
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Seriously, you would want your kitchen to look like that? I guess I don't consider vintage old and ugly, I consider it a style from a foregone era. I want the style, but I don't want it to look 100 years old and wrecked. I didn't ask him to leave any of the corners hanging off the wall either. I saw the brown edges on the back of the paper, but thought nothing of it. How was I to know it would come through. And, again, when it did, why didn't he tell me? When he left, he told me that the brown would go away after the paper dried.
    Sorry, Annie, but I'm not following you. Vintage paper is meant to overlap, unlike modern paper that butts together. The pattern did go right to the edge on one side. He overlapped it wrong. He did use cellulose paste. The rest of the paper is fine. It's just the edges, where the brown was on the back.

  • palimpsest
    11 years ago

    Then take it down. You can't expect old vintage stock to look brand new, it doesn't work that way.

  • marcolo
    11 years ago

    I don't see the big deal either. I like it.

    Shame to have the paper preserved so long only to be abruptly discarded in a fit of pique.

    If it drives you completely crazy, you could practice on a scrap painting over the discoloration. Doesn't look like it would be that hard if you used a light hand.

  • yayagal
    11 years ago

    If I were you I'd be very unhappy with that job. Either the paper was damaged or the paper hanger was inexperienced. To say that the lines would disappear is nonsense. I would take a picture and send it to the person who sold it to you and also call the person who hung it and have them come over and look at it. Both of them should do something about it, you paid both and the job looks awful to me.

  • bronwynsmom
    11 years ago

    I am so sorry!

    And I see the big deal. I wouldn't call it a fit of pique - I think your anger is entirely understandable. It's not what you wanted or expected. The vendor should have told you about the risk of browning.

    No matter what, you should try to get a rebate on the paperhanger's fee. If he is a professional paper hanger, screwing up the method so completely is inexcusable. That's how it's done - you overlap and cut away the overlap to create the perfect flat seam. He also shifted the widths a hair up on the left in the photo with the long seam showing.

    And at the risk of nudging you while you are down, I must gently suggest that it is almost never a good idea to take the lowest bid. Did you have, and check, references on this guy? That's another thing that gets skipped to our peril.

    Oh, these expensive lessons.

  • palimpsest
    11 years ago

    Yaya the paper is 50-60 years old. It's not vintage Patterned wallpaper, it IS Vintage wallpaper. It's not going to behave like paper fresh out of the factory. It's not damaged, its OLD.

  • Jamie
    11 years ago

    Wait, Wait!

    Hope you haven't removed it yet.
    And I skimmed quickly because I'm so excited; hope I'm not repeating someone else...

    You can lightly tea stain the entire wall. That will suffuse the brown seams and look fab. You are doing something wonderful. Don't stop!

    I can't find the technique at this instant, but I'll keep googling and report back. It is definitely easy and foolproof. It was in a Martha Stewart magazine article.

  • betsyhac
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Marcolo, it's hardly a fit of pique - that's an unfair characterization, and I'm surprised to hear it coming from you.
    Yaya, thank you!
    I did not take the lowest bid. This guy came recommended by some good people.
    I will have to take it down, and I never expected it to "act" any certain way. It's paper. I knew it was going to be delicate and difficult to cut. I carefully explained to everyone I talked to that it was vintage, the consequences of which several were familiar with. I followed the suggestions to prime and size the wall, as well as use cellulose paste.
    It was damaged. I can't believe that this is the very first time that those brown edges were an issue with installation, and I'm sure there are plenty of vintage papers installed without smeared brown on the edges.
    Rosie's has agreed to refund me for the paper.

  • betsyhac
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Jamie, you and I posted at the same time. Very interesting! I'll google that myself and take a look.

  • marcolo
    11 years ago

    besyhac, you are acting very abruptly to destroy an irreplaceable paper that has been preserved for decades and happens to look fantastic in your space, especially with that gorgeous trim color (what is it?).

    I'm not defending the installer--you have every right to be angry at him. Overlapping is not some old, forgotten technique, for goodness's sake, and he certainly should've stopped and told you about the browning.

    But the comments about there being something "wrong" with the paper have me wondering which ward I've wandered into. Could those who complain about improper storage tell me the "proper" way wallpaper should be stored for 60 years? Please. Absent intentional misrepresentation, all antiques are sold as-is, and it is generous of Rosie to offer a refund. If all antiques dealers are now being expected to warrant their wares as if they were new, all antiques will be swept from the shelves into the landfill and no one will ever have to trouble themselves with a disappointing purchase again.

    If you're going to destroy it anyway, then give him a chance to fix it. No harm no foul. If the paper can be tugged over a bit you might add thin trim pieces to cover the gaps where your cabinets are. Wallpapered rooms actually used to have quarter-round moldings and such around the corners anyway. What is the point of setting out to destroy it and refusing to try to rescue it?

  • bronwynsmom
    11 years ago

    I'm sorry, betsyhac - I was remembering the earlier conversation about how much it should cost, and I was thinking he was the low bidder.

    May I take that back? It wasn't very delicate of me to say it in any case, not while you are smarting so.

  • Jamie
    11 years ago

    The Martha Stewart website hangs up my browser.
    But I think this is the issue.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARTHA-STEWART-LIVING-Issue-No-62-SEPTEMBER-1998-/160605420615?pt=Magazines&hash=item2564d43c47

    In my search, I found a post here on gardenweb that indicated that mere tea does nothing to paper. Maybe you need a more paint-like material or a glaze.

  • gsciencechick
    11 years ago

    Wow, this is tough. I agree it looks like it's been there a long time, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But that the pattern doesn't match up is more the issue.

    Love the look of the wallpaper with the blue.

  • chickadee2_gw
    11 years ago

    Betsyhac, I'm so sorry you're having these problems. I'd be sick too. I don't think you're being unreasonable about the wallpaper at all, and neither does Rosie or she wouldn't be returning your money. People would not be buying vintage wallpaper if dark lines were routinely showing up in the seams. That paper was not properly stored and is already damaged, so it's value as usable wallpaper is gone, unless you're into dark seams on your walls. It was probably stored on end in a box with exposure to light, etc. Ideally, it would be stored in acid free paper, but even without the acid free paper, it could still have fared better than that with some precaution.

    I don't have any experience hanging vintage wallpaper so I'm not familiar about the overlap. I'm wondering though if he didn't miss a repeat. It looks like he aligned the new strips of paper he was hanging with the chafing dishes as his guide. Pretending you're hanging paper with some of the leftover paper you have, does the pattern on the chafing dishes match up better if you move it up or down? If if does, then he missed a repeat. If it doesn't, then that must be the nature of vintage paper. It's been awhile since I've hung paper, but I'm confused why the piece above the door doesn't mirror the piece to the left against the cabinets.

    That's adorable paper, and you've already got your kitchen painted to match it. What about looking into something like this - designyourwall.com. Get your guy to rehang the new paper for free since he messed up. It might be easier than looking for a new paper.

    Here is a link that might be useful: design your own wallpaper

  • cindyloo123
    11 years ago

    You had a great plan. That blue with that wallpaper is stunning. It would make me so happy to walk in that kitchen every day!
    Is the paper completely dry yet? Some of the brown may fade away once it's really dry. However, if this is as good as it's going to get, there is no way I'd keep it up there.
    In the hangar's defense, I can see how he thought the brown might disappear when the paper is dry. I have made that mistake a few times. Eventually I learned not to take that kind of chance, because it's too expensive. The thing is you are always optimistic, because every single paper is different and when something odd happens, it often does correct itself when dry. I've learned the best thing is to hang two strips, leave for a day, and come back the next day to see if the problem went away. It's not worth me hanging the whole room only to find out the problem does not go away!
    Anytime edges are discolored/visible, something is WRONG. The most common cause is that the paper edge was not cut properly. It is usually cut on a slant, but sometimes the cutting machine is just a little off and the whole run is ruined. If the paper is going to have this problem, it should be visible as soon as the first two sheets are butted together. I would go get the homeowner immediately, because I know the problem and I know it's going to be on every single seam. I wouldn't want it in my home. I've had some owners tell me to keep hanging, because they are racing against some deadline and don't have time to order new paper before their big party! smh So they live with horrible seams for years as a result.
    How did the guy not see that he had to overlap the other way to make the match? Maybe he was so distracted by the fragile paper, he just wasn't thinking, lol.
    If I had done that job, I would make it right at my expense. If that means I buy new paper, strip and rehang, that's what I do. In the end, they pay me for one hanging job.
    If they don't want new paper I'd probably be stripping what I hung, giving them back whatever they paid me, and paying them for all of the material loss.
    In other words, I would make the client whole, one way or another. Frankly, if you took him to small claims court, that is what he would be required to do.
    Geez, I'm almost as upset about it as you are!

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    11 years ago

    embrace the brown....

  • emagineer
    11 years ago

    I would have the hanger trim the seams as should be. Also, not sure if this will work for you, but an old solution for cleaning historic papers (books, manuscipts, ect). Using white bread. Buy the cheapest and roll it into a ball, sans the crust. Then use like an eraser. If you have any leftovers, perhaps try this.

    If he had overlapped correctly, the aged look wouldn't have been as significant.

    I also like the idea of having this design replicated by someone who could block print it for you.

  • Annie Deighnaugh
    11 years ago

    betsyhac, from Vintage Wallpaper Heaven,

    Usually there is a salvage edge on both sides of your wallpaper, sometimes it is perferated and can be removed easily, but more often than not you will have to trim it yourself. Some people prefer to leave the selvage edge on one side of the paper and overlap it. You will have to decide that for yourself. The paper is thin enough that the seams where it is overlaped are not visible, unless your wall gets a lot of direct sunlight. You will need to trim at least one salvage edge it before hanging. You can either trim one edge (either right or left depending on where you place the wallpaper in the room) or you can trim both. If you trim only one edge make sure you always trim the same edge on any additional strips, and overlap the wallpaper to hide the salvage edge which assists in matching the pattern.

    So you can indeed not overlap by trimming both edges at once for a smooth finish. I would've done that in this case as both edges are brown.

    I would not tea stain the paper as it is the luscious clear colors that looks so great with the blue...if you brown them down, it won't give you the look you want which was the reason you went vintage in the first place.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Hannah's Treasures Vintage Walllpaper

  • User
    11 years ago

    Your paperhanger is a complete idiot. He is also dishonest. He had plenty of time and opportunity to show you what was going on and his statement about not being able to fix it was a complete lie. whatever you decide to do, I would suggest you join Angie's List for the purpose of displaying the same close up photo you posted here to warn others in your area against hiring him.

  • User
    11 years ago

    betsyhac-

    I understand your frustration with both the paper and installer, and while I could live with it, you can't and that's your prerogative. Here's an off the wall idea, and I'm sure the purists will gasp, but what about running a thin strip of wood painted that delectable aqua color (or even the red?) down the wall and masking each seam for a kinda, sorta wall papered board and batten look?

    Good luck-

    sandyponder

  • User
    11 years ago

    It was going to look so nice :( I so understand your anger and frustration. Hope it all works out for you.

  • SunnyCottage
    11 years ago

    I think the brown gives it a rather timeworn appearance, but I completely understand that this is not necessarily what you had in mind! I hope you're able to resolve the issue. I absolutely love the wallpaper and love that you're using it!

  • schoolhouse_gw
    11 years ago

    The more I looked at the brown seams, the more I think it doesn't look too bad. Is there some way we can see more of the wall, as in a wider shot? Of course if something bothers you, I know how that goes. It's really up to you in the end.

  • SunnyCottage
    11 years ago

    Betsyhac - have you posted more photos of this room elsewhere? (A brief search didn't turn up anything, but I'll admit I didn't look exhaustively.) I am absolutely loving what I see of this room and would so enjoy seeing more photos. My kitchen is straight out of the 1940s, and when I think of updating, I think of doing so in an old-fashioned way.

  • tetrazzini
    11 years ago

    Betsy, I would feel exactly as you do. You wanted to capture the look the paper had when it was new, not the look of a 70 year old kitchen. And even if the hanger assumed the brown line was part of the look you wanted, the smart thing to do would have been to take a minute and check with you. I can't understand at all how a professional could fail to do this simple thing, but it happens all the time.

    I love the woodwork around the windows, and the color. Your kitchen looks like it's got wonderful features. I'm sure it's going to be beautiful when finished, whatever solution you come up with.

  • tetrazzini
    11 years ago

    Betsy, I would feel exactly as you do. You wanted to capture the look the paper had when it was new, not the look of a 70 year old kitchen. And even if the hanger assumed the brown line was part of the look you wanted, the smart thing to do would have been to take a minute and check with you. I can't understand at all how a professional could fail to do this simple thing, but it happens all the time.

    I love the woodwork around the windows, and the color. Your kitchen looks like it's got wonderful features. I'm sure it's going to be beautiful when finished, whatever solution you come up with.

  • betsyhac
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Oh thank you so much everyone, esp you Cindylou, for offering your perspective as a paperhanger. I kinda felt under attack there for awhile for not liking the brown!! I do love the paper. I'm going to try to do everything I can to use it. Annie, thx for the explanation; it's not that kind of paper. Sandy, I think I'd rather have that than the brown - not a bad idea at all. Sunny, it's still a work in progress, but thank you so much for your compliments. I will post pics when I'm done - hopefully it won't be too much longer. The whole project has definitely been a huge challenge in many ways, but I'll get there . . . eventually.
    BTW, Charlene Bergbower aka Rosie's Vintage Wallpaper reneged on the refund because I didn't use wheat paste, even though everyone warned me against using wheat paste, and suggested cellulose instead, as did Hannah's Treasures Vintage Wallpaper. I think it's a convenient cop-out for Charlene. I think if she were an honest businesswoman, before taking $100 per roll of paper, she would have warned me about the very strong mildew smell of the paper, as well as the brown edges. I can't possibly be the first person that this has ever happened to.
    Oh, and the bread!! I'm all over that idea too.

  • palimpsest
    11 years ago

    Eh, I think you were the one that attacked: "seriously...?"
    "old and ugly" "old and wrecked", "didn't ask him to install it with corners hanging down, either" came out of Your mouth, not anyone else's.

    It says on the website that it's a vintage product and that she doesn't refund because of this.

    That said, I can understand why you don't like it and agree that it isn't abutted properly, but people were trying to be supportive in the sense that there IS validity to the notion of purposely having it look like it has been there a long time. It would certainly be more unique to have a well preserved kitchen of that era than a brand new one that just duplicated it. This is why people love antiques and antique houses...they don't look new. Of course there are people that love antique styles, but hate antiques--they buy reproductions. That's fine too, but it's not exactly the same.

  • rafor
    11 years ago

    A little off topic, but could you share the brand and name of the luscious color paint used on the woodwork and cabinets?

    TIA

  • cindyloo123
    11 years ago

    1. Stripping it before it is completely dry would be fairly easy. So time if of the essence in making a decision.
    2. He certainly could have taken the first strip off at any point though the strip would have been ruined. It sounds to me like you had an extra roll though so what was the problem?
    3. The paper was improperly installed regardless of the brown. It is mismatched. That is unacceptable. Period.
    4. The guy knew he was going to be hanging something vintage. If he was not familiar with vintage paper, he should have done a little research before he started hanging. When you know you are working with an unusual and expensive product, you make darned sure you know what you are doing before you start because that material comes out of your pocket if you screw it up.
    5. YOU don't strip the improperly hung paper. The paper hangar comes and does it for you at no charge.
    6. The procedure described by Annie, overlapping and then double cutting, was the proper solution. So if you have another roll, why not try it? Are there any scraps around that would allow the guy to do some practicing before he has to work on the new installation?
    7. I tell my clients to accept nothing less than total satisfaction from their contractors. Paper hangars are well compensated for their SKILLS. On an easy job, I can find myself clearing $70 an hour, tax free. When something like this happens, I take a loss but it's my own fault. Even with the occasional loss, my average hourly income is still ample compensation for what I do. There is no reason for you to feel bad about requiring the guy to make you whole. I can't tell you how many jobs I've done, where the client paid me to strip and rehang a job they had paid another hangar to do! They take a total loss on the original labor and materials, and the cost of having me strip, because they don't want to hurt the hangar's feelings. And as crazy as that is, I have to say that I have done the same thing with contractors!
    8. Covering the seams with trim is an option. It will look like you papered over paneling. It's the mobile home look, lol. And if you get your hangar to reimburse you the $400, you may be able to use that money to do something else nice for your kitchen. It's something to consider.

    I wish you luck with finding an inexpensive solution. Please keep us informed!

  • cindyloo123
    11 years ago

    Btw, cutting the seams now is not an option. It would be too hard to get the cut paper to separate from the paper you want to leave in tact.

  • yayagal
    11 years ago

    Is there a place on the wall paper that is hidden like behind the fridge etc. because, if so, you may be able to mix up a light paint and dry brush it like you do in stenciling and see if you can blend it and camo it. You have nothing to lose, use a light hand.

  • betsyhac
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Palimpsest, I don't want to argue with you or anyone else. Your second paragraph was very nice so let's move on. I'm surprised to hear that several, no, many, people here wouldn't mind the brown but, hey, to each his own. The dry brush idea is spectacular and I'm dying to try it - right after the bread. :)

    Fortunately, I don't have a lot of area to do. I'm having people over tomorrow night, so I'm just going to have to deal with this later this weekend. It seems to be dry, so if I do end up taking it down, I think it's too late to do it while it's wet.

    Cindyloo, how I wish I could have you work with me on this! What state are you in? I can understand why people would pay you to re-do a job. In my case, it wouldn't be bc I didn't want to hurt the PH's feelings, but bc I just don't trust him.

    For those of you who asked about the paint color, it's Benjamin Moore Waterfall, and I'm so glad to hear that you like it - thank you. It took me way longer than I thought it would to pick out that color, but I'm really happy with it.

  • cat_ky
    11 years ago

    Sorry to see all the problems you have. I dont have a soloution, but, thought I might tell you, that I do love the paper, and in 1960, we bought an older house, and had that exact same wallpaper on the top half of the kitchen. I liked it then, and I still think it is really nice when I look at yours. Wish I had some pictures of mine to show you.

  • cindyloo123
    11 years ago

    I'm in Maryland Betsy. But there are plenty of good paper hangars around. To find one I would suggest that you call a few, explain what happened, and ask them what they think you should do about the problem. Their answers may help you decide who you want to work with.

    I don't see how you can possibly dry brush it because there are so many different colors along the seams...even the background has more than one color in it. You have nothing to lose by trying it though!

    I think the only way to really salvage the current job is the trim idea. But your kitchen already suffers from too many different materials on the walls, along with inconsistent trim styles and uses. The additional trim is going to make the room look like it was pieced together one square foot at a time.
    If you are comfortable holding the contractor responsible but don't want to use him again, just tell him he owes you a refund of whatever you paid him and the cost of the ruined paper. He may be willing to give you cash to compensate for the stripping that may be necessary, but he would be justified in saying he'd rather contribute the labor than the cash.

    Once you've settled with the contractor and actually have your money back in your hand, you will feel better. You'll be back where you started and you can think about where you want to go from here.

    Am I correct in assuming a paint job is out because the walls are in poor condition?

    If you have to start over, may I suggest that you seize the opportunity to unify your walls a bit, by putting the same material on the bottom of the wall as you put on the top? I think doing so would be a major improvement, for very little cost. All paneling or all wallpaper, in a color that works with that beautiful blue?