That's a tough situation. It doesn't sound like your DH is too happy with the living arrangements either. It sounds like he wants to buy another house to leave the kids behind. I would not do that. Your DH needs to re-claim the house and get 20-somethings out of the house.

It's like these adult children expect us to work our butts off and support them like they are infants while they party and do whatever they want. Sign me up for that deal!!!

Much sympathy to you. I'm in a similar situation that I don't care to rehash. I would give DH a timeframe. If he can't take control over the house, then I probably would consider leaving.

Thank you Lola,
Actually DH seems perfectly happy with things as - is, he is a workaholic and has been since before I knew him, so he really isn't around to much. He would like to get this house as I would have since it is lakefront but it is a complete tear down to the studs etc. and for the reasons I stated I'm just not up for it.

I feel like our marriage is on very shaky ground here & it's not the time to buy a home together. I have tried many times to get him to givethem a time frame-anything just something to give me hope of us getting our home back, but he will not.

He doesn't think it's a problem & for him I guess it isn't. He doesn't mind supporting them & paying everyones cell phone bills. He doesn't mind them living here indefinately.

poor cat!

I wouldn't know where to begin to straighten this out, don't know that it can be straightened out even if hubs were in your corner...which he isn't.

One thing I feel sure of;
that pan was scorched & discarded in the woods, & you'll never get an admission, an apology, or a replacement.

The pan kind of expresses the whole situation in a microcosm:

Your property was taken without your permission & misused, & when they ruined it, & it was not useful to them, they threw it away,or when they were finished using it they couldn't be bothered to bring it back to you, & they aren't going to admit it or try to make it right...
& they don't have to.

& yet you feel like you need to apologize for being "petty" about it.

Had this happened when the 2 of you were dating, what would he have done?
What would you have done?

I think you need to get outta there.

Hubs was "calling your bluff", in a way;
he isn't going to do make any changes & he isn't going to treat you any better because he doesn't have to;
he doesn't think you'll leave.

& if/when you do leave, he won't have an epiphany & come begging;
he'll simply find another woman.
It's what those kinds of guys do.

As for buying a house that you don't want, putting it in your name only, & letting his kids live in it...

That's insane, & if you weren't distracted by the thought that you somehow "owe" something to the "relationship" (if you were both single, he wouldn't have dared to think of it, much less suggest it), you'd realize it's insane.

He thinks you should do it because that's what he wants done, you're the vehicle by which he can get it done, & he doesn't care that it would be devastatingly bad for you.

He's revealed his character & his low opinion of you ( although it's probably nothing personal, probably you're just the 'woman du jour', the one who was there to fill a space when he needed a "wife unit"), & your life won't get better with this guy;
it's gotten worse since you got entangled with him, & it'll keep on getting worse.

The only way to make it better is to get away from the person who views you as just a resource to be used until you're used up.

When you're no longer useful to him & his kids & his goals, you'll be discarded just like that pan.

I wish you the best.

You poor thing, this sounds like hell on earth!! IMO opinion, buy a condo somewhere, take your pets, and get out of there. These people are not children, they are adults! They are responsible for themselves, and there is no reason for them to descend upon you and bury themselves in your house like ticks. Once you've left, you won't need to get a travel job either, you can work normal hours and after work, relax and do exactly what you want, without having to put up with these overgrown babies and their nonsense.

"Had this happened when the 2 of you were dating, what would he have done?
What would you have done? "

I think he wouldn't have done anything & I'd like to think I would have said enough & left. However,hindsight is 20/20. There were several red flags I chose to dismiss before we married.

One I especially recall was SS29's then GF treating my son & I extremlely rude even after we moved in. Once she even came over while I was at work and made SS a chocolate cake & left the mess in the kitchen for me to clean. The kids her included would make it a point to exclude my son from card/board games they would play. DH always exused the behavior. They were allowed to walk through DS's room to get to the garage rather than walk around anytime, it was really really awful the first few yr.s Her and SS used to have sex in the shower *loudly* keeping my son awake as his room was next door to it. I had to really get tacky about the above incidents to get it to stop-I mean I had to pack, leave for a few days.

When complained and threatened to leave over it, DH told me I had displaced her as woman of the house & I should be more understanding. Another time he told me he thought I was stronger than that...see now I remember these little incidents and think why didn't I really see it for what it was? DH is not a bad guy, he likes being married but I don't particularly think he likes me as a person, does that make sense? I think he loves me as much as he can & believe he would be devastated and then very angry (with me) if I left. But no I do not think he will have a epiphany either, rather just be angry and make me the baddi & hate me forever. If I leave, it's over. That I am sure of.

When it's just he & I which is rare these days it's nice. He will do anything for me (as long as it's not addressing this situation) or friends, is very generous & helpful. But I find mor & more these days we have not much to talk about. We do not spend much time together and when we do he is so exhausted and I'm so angry we just keep the convo to a minumum and go to sleep.

I really thought that when these kids were grown & out DH & I could have a somewhat normal marriage & life together. That's why I hung in there so long, but now I just don't believe it is ever going to happen and I certainly don't want to make any major financial commitments or plans together anymore.

I say let your knee heal and then take that travel nurse job. It will get you out of that house and then your husband will have to come visit you and leave the grown kids behind. You can work on your marriage without dealing with those adult monsters during your time to relax.

Maybe he will see how life can be as a parent of adult children who are not in the home? And maybe then he will realize that he wants his home back and he will give them the boot instead of coddling their laziness in finding another place to live.

Or maybe you will have the strength to end the marriage once your not in that house anymore and have your feet pointed in the other direction.

I just think since you have stayed so long you should take your time to get your career and life in order before deciding if divorce is the best option.

"I just think since you have stayed so long you should take your time to get your career and life in order before deciding if divorce is the best option."

Definitely get your career & life in order, & be careful in doing it:

gather your data, get your ducks in a row, be sure your own separate money is where it can't be accessed by anyone except you (maybe change banks & get your statements sent to a PO box or accommodation address), make copies of statements for joint accounts, be sure you have account numbers & records of assets, etc.

Be very careful with yourself.

Finances are already seperate, they have been all along. We have one joint account we both contribute to for household stuff and that's it.

Yes, I would like to save the marriage if it's possible, but I don't want it to be like this. I would like us to have a happy normal marriage where family comes to visit and we have a life together, kwim?

This weekend my cousin & his new bride wanted to stop by and spend the nght and visit on their way up north and I had to tell them I couldn't put them up as my guest room was occupied by SS & the couch is used by the other one. I invited to put them up in a hotel instead as I was to embarrassed to have them over, the house has too much stuff everywhere.

DH told me I could have asked SS's to stay at their mothers but I really felt he should have done that and besides the room is full of toys/boxes of stuff etc it's not like a guest room anymore.

I did go get the book "The dance of Anger" tonight. I have heard it recommended many times on the boards here, so I am hoping it will give me some insight into my behaviors also. As I am obviously angry & need to learn how to deal with it without having a full blown anxiety attack, as that is not helping the situation.

Cat,

I answered your post on the other thread.

You deserve so much better than this. That's what you have to keep telling your self to counter what has happened.

Athlete

Thank you..

The workalcholic thing is familiar to me too. Those kind of people think working 60+ hours a week is enough of an accomplishment and they there's no way they can deal with anything at home because they are making the big dollars. It's lonely being with one of them.

I hope you can find a way to save your marriage. I would insist that those adult children leave before you do. Present your husband with a moveout date for the adults. Don't ask your husband. Tell him this when they are moving out. If he balks at that, I would probably leave.

Lola,
Oh no way would he go for that! He'd tell me me to leave if I said that. As far as the workaholic try 100+ hours a week. The man is literally working himself to death, it is sad.

But if I said they go or I do he would probably say -Bye!

I may be wrong but I doubt it. He could never deal with the guilt of turning them out.

Wow it just keeps getting better (being sarcastic here).

I get a text from Dh as I'm leaving work to call him. I do from the car & he asks if I am going straight home & I told him no I had a few stops to make first. DH said could I stop at the bank on the way home and take out $ from DH's company account for SS29 as he is home starving and out of money and there is no food in the house.

At this point I am getting pissed. I say to DH "How could that possibly be? What is he doing with his money?" DH say's "I don't know." I said how much do you want me to give him, like $20?"

DH say's no he needs more than that, he is finishing up two jobs for me while I'm away so give him $100. I asked DH a second time "What are these boys doing with their money? They are living here rent free, where is it going?" DH say's "I don't know", again.

Then DH says regarding SS29, "SS didn't get his unemployment check (he is on a 2 week annual layover form parts plant he works at full time) so he has no money." I said " Yes, he did get his check, it came in the mail 2 days ago I personally handed it to him." DH say's "I don't know, just give him the $ and don't say anything about it to him."

OK, what the hell.. Why not? They have money for beer EVERYDAY. Both SS's sat around and dank beer all weekend & went out to the bar, out to eat FRi-Sat & Sun..etc.

Now DH pays SS's $20 hr when they help with a job-ok fine you should get paid for doing work. But they buy no groceries, use all my laundry stuff, live here rent free, so what am I missing here? DH makes it obvious I am not to rock the boat or upset them in any way. So, really I am thinking DH is afraid if he pulls the plug on the free ride the kids wont survive on their own, or what?

His 33 yr old son is the opposite of this, always self supportive, repsonsible..he even thinks his brothers are absolutely ridiculous and using DH. And he told me SS 29 asked him to co-sign on a car loan for him 3 weeks after his wife died and he told him no he couldn't do that-which is when DH did it without telling me.

I'm ranting again-sorry. Wow- I just cannot believe this is actually happening. From the tone of DH's voice I could tell he was very down, like he knows it isn't right, He know's I am angry, but will not/can not stop it..

I gotta get out of here, it is so dysfunctional. We are going to be destitute and DH is not going to stop this-he will work til he dies supporting these grown kids...we are never going to have a good life together, I just don't see it happening, tell me I'm wrong if you see it.

Even though I'm an adult SK and more often than not naturally inclined to be sympathetic to other adult SK's, there are of course situations where it's obvious the adult SK's are taking advantage. In this situation, that seems clear enough, so I'm going to go on the assumption that they are, in fact, taking advantage.

Either they're taking advantage *maliciously* (either out of some kind of anger or resentment, based on legitimate reasons OR their own perceptions which may be skewed or they may just be mean people) or they're taking advantage out of learned helplessness or insecurity (i.e. deep down they do not think they can function on their own).

Either way: I would agree that for everyone involved, the goal should be that they are no longer living in the house.

The main issue is, of course, how to accomplish this, and with a minimum of hassle, so that you can save your marriage, DH can save his relationship with his sons, and possibly even you and SS's can eventually get along.

I admit I have only had a chance to skim your posts, and if I'm overlooking some details or getting them wrong I apologize in advance. I gather that DH is very reluctant to rock the boat with his sons, and I gather that there have been big fights with between you two, and I gather that you've made threats to leave (and maybe even left at some point? sorry if I don't have that right). So you HAVE in fact already tried ---or come every close to trying--- the "either kids or me" ultimatum and you fear it will backfire with the end result that the marriage ends.

Thus, imho, it's time for a different strategy. That particular ultimatum is extremely hardball, extremely risky, and tends to leave scars no matter how it turns out. And that's if it actually works and you get your way! You seem to perceive (probably correctly) that it's not even likely it'll go your way, so that tactic needs to be dropped.

The looming threat of an "either/or" ultimatum may, in fact, even be exacerbating the situation. DH is getting more intractable about his position (as are SS's) out of rebellion to the general concept of being forced to choose. DH is working too much to avoid the confrontation altogether, and also to be able to ensure that he can support both your needs and those of his SS's so that neither can complain that he is providing for one at the others' expense. He would rather work his a$$ off no matter how many hours it takes, to try and make it work and 'do right' by everyone... NOT necessarily b/c he thinks his sons are doing the right thing, but to prove to everyone involved (including himself) that he will not be forced to choose between his wife and his children on any level or in any circumstance. That should tell you something about the strength of his devotion to both you and his kids.

My advice would be to get with DH and say simply this: "I don't want to force you to have to make a choice. But I also don't want to have to leave this marriage out of utter frustration. I realize now that there is no way around some amount of compromise or at least re-negotiation of certain things. Let me tell you what my concerns are, and you tell me what yours are, and we'll compare notes and try to find the most practical and peaceful solutions we can find."

My guess is that his concerns will center around being terrified of being forced to choose, or that you or his sons will attempt to control him. You can address/alleviate alot of that by reassuring him that (while you can't speak for his sons) you will not attempt to control him and that you realize that everyone involved has some legitimate needs, and that you know that you and the SS's are equally important to him.

In terms of what YOUR concerns are, they sound to me like they are, simply:
*privacy: you want your home and alone time back, you want to be able to, as you say, have folks VISIT but not live there 24/7, especially not expense-free or w/o lifting a finger to help with anything.
*money: you want to be sure that DH isn't spending all his money on his SS's so that there's none left over for you.
I would be as honest and to-the-point about these things as possible, and grateful that they are concrete things that are concrete that can be worked out without anyone having to force an ultimatum or make an outrageous sacrifice.

As to how they can be worked out, it's pretty simple:
-You and DH agree on a SPECIFIC DATE that the SS's will both be moved out. Give it ample time so that there can be no reasonable excuse why they "can't" move out on that date. Give them adequate-to-generous time to get their s**t together, get jobs & places. Resist the temptation to 'ambush' the news on SS's out of anger and make sure they are clued in loooong before they have to scramble. Again, the principle is you wnat to avoid giving them any excuse to stay stuck in the house.
-You and DH agree on SPECIFIC DUTIES that the SS's will be responsible for for the duration of time they are still under your roof.
-As for money, you have two options:
*separate ALL money and don't count on DH's income for your retirement; in other words, to each his own to look after him/herself financially (which means you can't tell him what he can/can't spend his money on, nor he, you). And then you don't have to concern yourself about what he spends on his kids putting YOU in the poorhouse.
OR:
-You and DH have to agree on SPECIFIC DOLLAR AMOUNTS that your combined income will allocate to the support of his kids and for what reasons. (It may be smart to 'lose the battle to win the war' as it pertains to SS's and initial money for an apartment: the more help DH gives them for that, the faster they will be out of your hair). The trick with this option is, of course, that you and DH have to both agree, and thus the 'kicker' is you still don't get to 100% dictate the terms b/c they have to be mutually agreed-upon. (if it can't be mutually agreed on, then it's best to revert to the first option: strictly separate finances.)

Write all this down, get it notarized, and detail it all very clearly with SS's.

I truly think that if you are able to address those main underlying issues via solid pragmatic agreements, that everyone will be better off and there should be minimal or no antagonism or anxiety. You will have to wait out a certain period of time and you will have to compromise a little, but that's what marriage --or any relationship b/n two or more people--- entails. You also always have the option to leave the marriage, but you shouldn't have to do that, especially without trying other ways of bettering the situation.

Catlettuce---

I scrolled back up and read some of your posts a little closer... where it saysthat you HAVE tried getting DH to give them a timeframe... and the part about the possibility of another house...

Of course I am not in the situation, don't know his personality, or every little thing you've tried... all i can do is take guesses and offer what I'd think to be reasonable suggestions...

As for the time limit: maybe ---just MAYBE--- DH could be better convinced if you made sure to let him know that you are willing to compromise on making the deadline pretty darn generous... so that there is less of an atmosphere of acute pressure on the issue 24/7, so that he is not worried his sons will feel "kicked out" abruptly and thus be mad. I mean, really, if it is discussed with them well in advance, and with no trace of a hostile attitude, they would have NO REASON to be upset. (I'm thinking that alot of it has to do less with the content of the request than the attitude surrounding it.) Again, I don't know what you've tried already in terms of that...

And for all I know, your husband truly is an ostrich burying his head in the sand, truly is an enabler out of all reasonable proportion. Maybe he is. In that case, it presents a new set of questions for you:

-You need to determine if, on some level, he PREFERS that the SS's are living there, for whatever reason. There's a difference b/n *tolerating* it (however martyrishly) and actually *preferring* it. If he prefers it, you are truly facing a no-win situation because everything else will serve as an excuse/smokescreen for that basic fact. Also, if he prefers it, you need to find out why. He may simply be very emotionally attached to them. OR: at the risk of sounding harsh or doom-invoking, this is not that uncommon a pattern in marriages where a gulf has formed b/n the couple, and all the "distraction" serves as a way to hide from that. Either way, I think you need to find out what the deal is.

-If it's not that DH PREFERS them there and that he woudl in fact prefer them to live ELSEWHERE (but is just piteously beholden to feeling like he has to pay for everything), then you have another major choice to make:
either you let him do his thing with the two houses (I am presuming that his intention is to have the SS's live in one and you two live in the other, and that he is willing to fund both) because the PRIVACY is more important to you... OR you endure their presence in the existing house and try all the while to keep convincing DH they should leave (which maybe will work & maybe won't) because saving the money is the more pressing concern.

Believe me, I am not saying that you should HAVE to make the above choice, or that you should suck it up and be happy about it. But if DH is TRULY as intractable as you say, AND you have tried all the other suggestions, AND you still want to stay in the marriage, at some point it may be a matter of cold hard realism and picking the lesser of two evils.

From the sound of it, you sound like the presence of the SS's is driving you up a wall more than anything. And you say your finances are separate. In that case, if it was me, I would tell DH that if ***HE*** (not you both) wants to pay for 2 houses with no rent from his sons so they can live in one of the houses, that HE can do that. *YOU* should not have to pay any $ for that in those circumstances.

Hi Serenity,
I think your advice is very insightful! You make some very good points & I thank you for taking the time to write out such a well thought repsonse, especially coming from a S-Kid too.

I am an adult Skid myself but never lived this particular situation so I am flabbergasted each time it goes a bit further. No, I do not think my Skids are mailicious but I do know that SS29 has never *had* to make it on his own, DH and many other people have bailed him out of every difficult situation in life so he hasn't had to. Though my younger Ss26 who lives with us also has told me in the past SS29 feels DH "owes" him-though why was never made clear, so I don't put much stock into that. DH had custody of all three of his boys since his divorce, which was 9 yr.s prior to us meeting so there are no SM vs. BM dynamics here (thank goodness)

Never had any fights with Skids ever, with DH yes we've had our share over the yr.s but not about this situation in particular. I did leave for a few days a few times in the beginning of the marriage, more over respect issues not this as Skids were minors and still in high shcool at the time.

I have made it clear that I am not happy with this situation, and why many times & DH admits to not being happy with them living here indefinately also, however he refuses to give them a move out date.

We have helped Ss's with move-out money previously & I have suggested that recently but DH instead wanted to let them stay here and lease our home while we moved elsewhere, which I am not doing.

A huge concern of mine is my DH continues to bail out SS's and neither one of them are learning to manage their money & live within their means. In order to survive and be independant you must live within your means. Most people get this, but the SS's and DH do not. DH is living job to job as are a lot of folks nowadays, but being self employed that gets really dicey, next month there may be no work. I am currently not able to work for a few weeks til I have a procedure on my knee so money is tight. Though I get a few extra bucks from side work.

Finances have been seperate from day one of our marriage and remain that way. We both contribute to household bills, though DH more because he makes a lot more than I do. As far as retirement, yes I am resentful that DH continues to foot the bill for adult kids including cell bills and yet is unable to save anything for retirement. He is 11 yr.s older than me and now it is almost to late to even bother but something supplemental to soc sec would be better than nothing.

It's not that I want him to have money for me vs. the kids but rather for us as a couple to be able to retire, travel, and help when we want to vs. supporting the adult kids that are capable of supporting themselves, kwim?

I do/did want to save my marriage, as my DH is obviously a very caring man, however the longer it continues the less I want to. DH has become very stressed, depressed, sad, and he knows I am angry and have about hit the end of my rope here. I do love him very much but when even your future 5 yr.s down the line as a couple looks bleak it makes you re-think whether or not it is worth working out.

The very fact that DH did not want me to say anything to upset SS today made me so angry for DH because it seemed he was afraid to upset SS-why is it ok for my 55 yr old DH to work himself to death in order to support SS? That is so wrong but perhaps he fears losing SS if he does not provide, I'm not sure. I can't watch him kill himself like this, it's like watching a alcoholic drink themself to death. If something happened to DH I fear I would completely blame the SS's, when rationally I know it is DH's choice.

I am trying to emotionally distance myself from my marriage at this point because it breaks my heart to think of ending my marriage and I feel guilty for the thought of hurting my DH, I know he will be devastated. I know he senses it I hear sadness in his voice when I cut our convos short. It's not out of spite but rather self preservation. Plus the more I pull away gradually hopefully it will be less painful if/when I leave.

I'm afraid every day he will have a heart attack from all of this. I worry myself to the point of having anxiety attacks over it. I at times wonder if "I" can be without him emotionally. DH is a very old school, stoic type of guy so I am really ambivilent about bringing this all up again, he knows where I stand and he gets very upset with any type of confrontation, also I am trying to not react out of anger. I don't want to feel I didn't try enough, but I also don't want another 5 yr.s of "this" either.

I can't push the issue with DH or it turns into a fight, he will bring up something I or my DS did 5 yr.s ago that made him angry to deflect from the issue at hand. Today I was surpised he didn't lose it with me when I questioned him about what SS's were doing with their money. Though I could tell he was getting agitated with me and that's when he told me not to say anything to SS about it just give him the money.

To clarify, I didn't see your second post when I posted above..No they are not horrible to live with, but yes privacy is a huge problem, along with just not being able to use my washer/dryer when I want or watch our big TV in the Living room or entertain (ss hits on my one GF relentlessly so she won't come over now). My belongings are taken and not returned, things like that.

Personality wise the Skids are nice, etc.Then we have the G-son here 4 days out of the week. He is a darling child but I don't want to deal with listening to SS yell at him & a little kid running around 4 days a week (maybe 1-2 days a week). I work too, and EVERY weekend it's like party central here, no quiet. Then when we have a chance to go up north for a few days DH always wants to have Skids go with us, so again no alone time.

He wonders why when he is home a few days every 2nd or 3rd week why I don't have much to say or I'm just not feeling it sexually. We have no couple time it doesn't seem to bother him.

It's just at this phase of our lives we both ( or so I thouht) looked forward to being a couple and the kids/g-kids visiting and us being able to do the things we want to do without the responsability of raising a family.

During the 3 months we had with them out last yr it seeme we were able to start reconnectng as a couple, DH wasn't working til 11-12 at night and we were able to take a few trips together. In other words we were able to focus on our marriage. We would take the kids out for meals, do the birthday get togethers. It felt normal.

Now we are just so overwhelmed, it is all falling apart. DH says he wants them to be out on their own but I do think for whatever reason he feels like it is on him to help them take the easier softer way. And we all want to make life easier on our kids. I did too. Telling my son at age 20 he had to leave because he wasn't willing to live within our household boundaries was the hardest thing I've ever done. It was also one of the best things did as a parent for him. I know he is able to make it & be successful on his own & more importantly so does he.

Catlettuce, another thing that occured to me is based on when you said DH has been a workaholic for quite some time. That, combined with having the kids (AND grandkids, AND GF's, AND pets, AND parties) around all te time and what sounds like more commotion than even perhaps the average inherent in child-rearing.... Maybe DH is just not sure what life will be like WITHOUT all the commotion. It's one thing to love having family around you, and to a certain extent that's great. But not 24/7 family party and where your marriage is hanging by a thread.

The fact that retirement is an upcoming possibility raises another, related, issue. Many, many people facing retirement (ESPECIALLY men, and ESPECIALLY workaholic type men) seriously face a bit of a crisis as they wonder what they're going to do with themselves. My stepfather is probably going to be in that same boat in a few years, and I'm already concerned about him and wanting him to be thinking about the upcoming adjustment and what hobbies and activities he can gear up for to keep that sense of structure & productivity in his life for his sense of personal fulfillment. It may be that your DH is kind of like him, too, in that these men really pride themselves first and foremost on being "good providers" for their families. When they're working and the stress/drama level is in full-swing, they feel alive and purposeful; when things simmer down, they can get more antsy and a little afraid of the quiet.

This seems to be a pretty common phenomenon, and maybe especially so inthe last 10-20 years. I don't think there's enough discussion about this issue on the talk shows or magazines... but maybe counseling wouldn't hurt... as well as figuring out how DH can continue to get the same sense of purpose & satisfaction he's getting from the status quo
but from a different set of circumstances. It seems like now he's thinking that the status quo is the only way...

Yes Serenity,
I think DH is the type of guy that will always have to work to keep his sanity, even if he is able to partially retire. At this point however retirement is not even a option for him ever, unless he is able to start saving at least 1k monthly, which he is fully able to do if we were not paying 700-900 in cell bills plus the other expenses of the Skids living here.

This time SS's gf isn't living with us, it's the 2 SS's and G-son. But give it time.

Actually SS29 is taking G-son up north tonight to help DH on a job til Fri night & other SS is out of town til Fri so I am looking at 36 hours of peace and quiet-Yea..it will be nice just to chill and have the house to myself.

Today I went to the ortho & I have a torn meniscus but we decided to give it 3 weeks of babying to try and avoid surgery, if no better in 3 weeks, then I'll have the arthroscopic repair. Really don't want to do that, think the sooner I get away the better. Trying to behave and stay off it so it is nice to have the house to myself and my pups for a few days.

Thanks for the advice & thoughts on this...I'm thinking the best option is a travel gig as soon as my knee is healed. I think the only way I will be able to clear my head is to step away from the situation here. Perhaps then DH might take my feelings more seriously then, don't know.

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate the support and different perspectives on this.

Good gravy!
He took your Calphalon pan CAMPING and lived to tell the tale?
I have Calphalon cookware too (I love it) and if someone took it camping I think I would use another piece of the set to hit them over the head when they returned. I would probably choose my 12" skillet - that thing would pack a whollop!

Yup, and it is one of my professional magicware anodized which they do not make anymore...I'm sure can find a replacement on Ebay, but these are already seasoned etc...

When I asked again yesterday he said it was in the trunk of his car and he would get it before he left and bring it in-which he never did.

I'm ready to bonk my DH over the head with the skillet first, as he is not adressing it with SS.
I'm sure it's gone. They have done this with DH's tools many times too, it frustrates him but I am past frustrated.
I'm packing up the rest of my good pans tomorrow and putting them in storage before they get lost too.

I know this is beating a dead horse but I want my damn pan back!!

SS29,G-son & DH are home. I have asked for it back twice tonight.

He now tells me it is in the bottom of his bag/luggage in the garage, & he'll get it. This was a hour ago. WTH.

Tomorrow I may "borrow" something of his without asking and not return it until I get my pan. I know it's childish but I am really irritated.

SS29 just walks into our bedroom a minute ago, n one was in there but still is there NO where I can have private in this house? I asked him what he was looking for and he said "sh*t paper" I said "Tolet paper?" He said yes, so I said "Don't you have any of your own in your bathroom?" "No" I said "I'll get it." and did (hoping he would take the hint that this is our private space). There is no reason for him to go into our bedroom!!

Gah!! I am sure I am over-reacting, but jeez I am startig to feel violated.

I feel like the whole "pan thing" is getting to be just a game with him.

I am shocked, I admit I thought it was really lost and gone foreve, but last night it was returned, unharmed-Yea!

And the SS29 mowed the lawn for us, which I immediately thanked him for. How nice!

I'm sure my DH apreciated this also, one less thing for him to do since he is leaving again tomorrow pm..

Still not digging the adult kids living here, but it is so much better when they pitch in. SS did tell my yesterday that he & his brother were looking for a place, it made me hopeful but I'm not holding my breath.

Still continuing with my plan to travel nurse. As even if they do get their own place there is nothing stopping all this from happening again & again. DH is gone so often and I don't want to deal with snow & slush and freezing this winter.

cat, have you TOLD SS that your room is off limits? He's an adult and I would have said in a calm, respectful tone... 'If you need something, can you please ask me so I can get it? My room is my private space and please don't go in there.' (and put a keyed lock on the door)

as for the pan, when he said it's in his trunk, could you say, 'okay, lets go get it now.'? and walk with him to go get it. It is a game and lets see how much I can piss her off. My son has played this game with me, so it's not just a step parent issue. When you don't give them the reaction they want and you call them on their BS, then it's not so fun for them to keep playing. (I think of the game 'keep away' when I think of this behavior. They are the ones keeping it away and enjoy watching the reaction of the one trying to get what they are keeping away. A game kids shouldn't be allowed to play, IMO) lol, that and dodgeball.

Hi Ima,
Yes I have told all kids that our bedroom is off limits many times. It only took one time of my son walking in at a indecent moment bewtween DH & I to cure him, lol. Sadly though SS's & G-son just don't or won't get it. Nothing is off limits to them.

About a yr ago I actually locked the bedroom door and took the key with me when I left and SS29 called DH and complained that he was locked out of our room, DH got very upset that I locked his kids out of our room.

I stood my ground but lost the battle, kwim? If I lock the door to keep G-son out cause I have my meds in there, I am to leave the key in the hutch drawer so SS's have access. You know, in case they need anything.

I've pretty much given up here. This weekend they have totally taken over the living room and hence the big screen, as usual. I've either been in my workroom or the bedroom. DH is on the way home from work right now. DH told me today that he didn't have enough time to do anything he wanted to do. I said yes I agree we haven't done anything fun as a couple in a long time, he just agreed.

I told SS25 to stop throwing out his returnable beer bottles in our trash and to return them to the store, it's .10 cents a bottle. He said "Why it's only a dime?" I said well those dimes could be saved up to pay your rent somewhere and your trashing the environment by not recycling." He just rolled his eyes at me. I told them to leave them in the garage then & I would take them back, he said "Fine, you can have them, I don't care."

See, what do you do with that mentality? They have no money to pay rent or eat but go on canoe trips, always have alcohol, and money to party..What do you do with that? They are adults, it's not like I am going to make a change in their outlook on being responsible or how you live affects those around you, cause they aren't impressionable anymore and DH just works constantly and just seems to not be able to deal with anything now.

I am going to ask him tonight again to set a date with the kids for them to get their own place, and watch he will be very offended and refuse to do it. I hope that's not the case but that is the usual response.

Hmm nice I got 20 whole minutes to watch what I wanted on the big screen tv the they came back from fishing and took over where I was sitting on the couch (when I got up to pee the dogs) and changd the channel. I went & told DH I was going to bed as I had been booted from the living room & TV again, he just rolled his eyes at me. I guess it's okay as long as THEY are happy.

DH asked me tonight when I was going back to work. Umm I have a torn meniscus and am having surgery-I don't know, but not soon enough for me! I then asked him how long they were going to be living here and he said h didn't know that he though they were looking around at places.

So it's ok tosupport the adult kids but not me, when need surgery. I suppose I am overreacting out of anger but geez...

To heck with it, I am going back to work Weds, and am going to work until I can't. I need to get out of here and keep busy on the weekends.

If it hastens things then so be it, I've had a week off and can't take it anymore!

"DH got very upset that I locked his kids out of our room."
"I am to leave the key in the hutch drawer so SS's have access."

OHHHH HEEEELL NOOOOOOO!!! I'd change the locks again and DH wouldn't have a damn key if he told me that!!! (So sorry you have to go through this crap!!!)

There's a new movie out... "Step Brothers" and we went to see it yesterday. It was meant to be funny (and it was) but there was a lot of 'reality' in it that really, is not funny at all. Your SS sounds like the son's from the movie. (and NOBODY should take a child to go see it.... lots of adult humor parts)

Hi Cat,

It sounds like you have no rights or privacy in your own home, and that's wrong.

What could your adult stepchildren possibly need in your bedroom? They should have their own things.

Perhaps everyone there is just using you as an income source to pay the bills. That is why your husband is eager for you to go back to work so quickly.

You should have told him that you're not going back to work until the adult kids are out of the house. If he "thinks" they are looking around at places, that means that they are not.

Your husband is not supporting you at all - especially in your time of need. Unfortunately, it seems like you're not going to be able to change his thinking.

Yes, DH is supporting them and for the past week, me. They have jobs that pay well and are capable of living outside of our home.

I told him fine I will go back to work weds and he can plan on me being off for 6 weeks after surgery when it might have been just 3 weeks if I don't work and let it heal. He seemed unmoved by it or he just isn't hearing me. I'm not sure.

Whatever, I'll try my best to be very careful at work. I could use the money and I'll just have to deal with it as it comes. If my first night back Weds is to much for me, I'll go back on leave and follow Doc.s instructions.

My dear friend who is a retired ER doc for 35 yr.s says no way will I get through a shift without overbending,twisting etc..she thinks DH obviously has no clue what nurses do-true-he thinks it's a fairly easy job, but that's another story for another day.

We will see what happens. Tomorrow I get to watch G-son as tonight was SS29's visiting night and when he went to meet baby momma, she was no where to be fund, not reachable and her parents don't even know where she is. I bet my life savings she is at the crackhouse, leopards don't change their spots.

So I will take Gson with me to take the doggies swimming and get my allergy shots, he'll probably enjoy watching gramma get her arms stuck-HaHa!

SS29 has to be to work at 5am so how could I say no? I mean he asked nicely if I could help him out & thanked me so of course I don't mind during times like this.

Hopefully Baby momma won't wake from her stupor until we are done having our fun day as she will want me to drop everything and bring G-son to where ever she may be-not happening! I'm planning on dropping him at daycare when we are done and hopefully enjoying our day without any momma drama!

Catlettuce, I feel for you and have been through the same nightmare your going through. My two adult stepkids did many of the same things your adult Skids have done to you.

What I did that worked was to be around whenever they were around. If I wanted to watch my big screen TV, I did. I would walk in and announce that at one o clock I will be watching a certain program. Then at one o clock I would come in and turn on that program. I would make as much noise as I wanted like clean the house, vacumme, make noise in the kitchen. I would try and be around as much as possible and not go into my room. Leaving them alone only makes it nicer for them. I made it uncomfortable to be there. They would finally get up a leave and finally moved out.

If they took something which they did alot I would keep after them and go with them to get it. I also locked up many of my personal items in suitcases so only I had the key to get at them.

This is your home with your husband. It is his fault also that this is going on but you need to make it not so nice to live there. The more I was around the less they wanted to be around.

Hope this helps. Best of luck.

Hi Cat,

You are really in a very difficult situation. Your husband should be requiring the adult sons to contribute to the household expenses. They are definitely taking advantage of you

The situation with the mother of the G-son is very disturbing. If she is using crack and/or other hard drugs, she should not have custody of the young boy. I would be calling child protective services to investigate her. The father is being very irresponsible to leave his own son with someone like that. It's dangerous for the boy.

I hope that you can convince the son to do what is right.
If he loves his G-son, your husband should support you as well.

Take care.

Athlete

Woke up this am to SS25's shiny new big 4x4 in our driveway. Nice. He's got a new motorcycle, boat, new 4x4, but can't afford to move out-Whatever. Detaching with love here.(though it is hard when your angry)

I was told a week ago that the SS's were planning on getting a Apt in October, I asked DH why in Oct instead of now? SS25 has been here a yr supposedly saving a down payment for a house, SS 29 5 months this time-same reason.

DH said they have more credit cards to pay off first. Whatever, I'll believe when I see it, hopefully by October I will be out of here myself!

~Cat

Wake up tommorow go straight and clear the bank accounts, go home and pack your bags! Nobody deserves to be a prisoner in their own home.
Dont worry they can replace the bill money.
Find a good lawyer too, because if your hubby cared about your sanity he would fix this.
Its time for them to be weaned from the breast milk, they are adults.
(protect your sanity)

i agree with the other posters. dh has made it clear over and over again that your wishes come last.
i'm so sorry,you deserve better. so spend that time bedridden with your bum leg looking at ads for housing you can afford and like. but say nothing!!!!!!! just make your plans and someday soon when hopefully everyone is gone for the day(at a baseball game or whatever),have a moving van come in and quickly get your stuff packed and out. no drama,,jusy a definate sataement that you will no longer participate in this scenario. take back your power and you will feel so much better! and for god;s sake,keep your money seperate.
good luck,,i hope you can get out and get happy right away. if dh misses you,he can some visit you in your place. if you let him!

We have kept our finances seperate since the beginning, as we have both been divorced previously-not that there is much to seperate but yes I have my own account etc.. We both chip in to pay household bills/groceries/car ins etc, he pays the house pyt since he makes much more than I do. The only account that is joint is DH's business account and that is strictly for convienece for him, I make deposits etc while he is gone.

I would never clean out the bank accounts and leave like that. It's just not my style, my DH works damn hard & I couldn't leave like that. The bottom line is I still love him regardless of whether it works out or not I wouldn't do that to him or anyone.

Just wanted to update although there is not much to update. SS26 joined a football/baseball & bowling league, got lots of new hunting equipment and a new handheld GPS, trip up north sigh.. Though he is doing some work for DH (and being paid handsomely for it). I have figured out why they are not planning to move out til Oct, hunting season is a few weeks into Sept-priorities.

DH is working out of town still and not sure when he will get home. I do have to say though DH has covered my bills this past month while I've been off without a complaint. He has been quite supportive regarding my knee injury & not just financially, so I really feel kinda crappy complaining about the SS's though I realize it is completely different.

At least I know they will be moving out in Oct (hopefully) I'm resentful that they continue to live beyond their means instead of saving up to get their own place, though it's beating a dead horse and it would be a arguement if I mentioned it to DH.

Not much new to report, surgeon reevalutes me in 2 weeks. It's feeling a bit better and I am hoping to avoid surgery (as I have had 3 surgeries in 2 yr.s-I'm sick of the whole sx deal) he say's it's unlikely this will heal on it's own. Either way I am picking up a couple of shifts to see how it holds up and will decide if this is a level of discomfort I can live with for awhile or to bite the bullet and get it fixed.

I am planning on setting a counseling appt for DH & I when I know he will return home, though he may or may not attend that's up to him. I'll go either way, it certainly won't hurt.

Thank you all for all the support, it is good we have this place to talk & vent.

DH gt home day before yesterday..I worked 3 days this week, with pain but tolerable with meds so maybe I will be one of the fortunate few that my knee will get better without surgery. I go for re-check 9-8.

Anyway last night DH & I are in bed ready to go to sleep and DH goes into the this long story abut how his friends kid got his 3rd DUI and is moving back in with him so he can get a job walking or bike riding distance etc...I'm like why are you telling me this? He said that SS29 wanted to rent the friends house instead of a apt. I said ok, sounds good whatever..then DH says "But..." (get ready, here it comes)..."It probably won't be ready til Jan 09."

Yup. Now my reaction was simple, I said "Look, I am not up for this. I want these kids to move out and for us to live as a couple, period. So what is the bottom line? Are you telling me that SS's won't be moving out til Jan now?" DH said " Well no, I don't know what's going on yet I'll find out more when I talk to my friend." (Which in DH speak means yes they will not be moving the 1st of OCt). I just said, "Well, I would love for the kids to visit and then leave but I do not want to continue living with them. So you need to decide whether or not you are able to take care of our Lab as if you cannot take her with you to your jobs I will be taking her with me on my assignment." DH said I won't be gone all winter! I just told him that's what he said last yr & I need to know if I'll be traveling with 2 dogs vs. 1.

He dos not want me to take a travel job (keep the home fires burning for some reason?), but I am so over it. I love him but I am ready to fly the coop!! It's like I can't believe it when he KNOWS how I feel, yet he continues to make excuses for them to stay longer and longer. There are plenty of house rentals here is SS's would prefer a house rather than a apt..

The end result was I took a ambien to sleep but was upset & still couldn't and now have a migraine-UGH! Why oh why does my DH refuse to let the kids be adults? Really, I totally believe it is more him than them.

Sorry, just another vent..

I read something today that I found very interesting. That women often grieve within their marriages. They let their husbands know that their behavior is hurting them and husband carries on as if everything will pass. Wife is nagging, having a hormonal flip out whatever. Husband subsumes himself into work, sleep, alcohol, etc...

In the meantime wife has gone through her denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. And sometimes acceptance is the only rational course of action.

Take your travel job because he clearly doesn't give a rat's banana how you feel. See how you feel after a few months.

These aren't little kids here.

Exactly what I'm thinking, thanks Colleen.

I need to get away so I think clearly about how I want to live, what I do know for sure is I don't want to continues like this but yes I have done so much grieving the past yr..and Dh buries himself into work and SS's dramas/issues.

I am almost surprised at myself for not being very angry about our convo last nght, but it was really not a surprise to me.

I am getting to the point of yes accepting what I can't change and doing what I have to do to deal. Love my DH but not going to sit around and watch him kill himself here with the stress of it all nor let the stress of living like this kill me.

My mother mentioned that maybe when I got into my own little apt/situated on my assignment that my allergy and chronic pain symptoms may subside a bit just from getting into a environment where I feel more in charge of my own destiny so to speak. Interesting.