It sounds as if your children love having their sister home. She IS part of the nuclear family. My younger kids miss their older siblings who have moved out so much that I am fighting tears just thinking about it. I don't buy for a minute the hypothesis that her presence is somehow causing your son not to be able to focus in school. There are so many reasons, including the distinct possibility that he is bored, that blaming it on his sister's presence, which seems from your post to be overwhelmingly positive from your child's point of view, is really a stretch.

Is it a problem for you that the age difference between you and your husband is about the same as the age difference between you and his daughter?

There is a significant chance that your husband will not be around to see your children all grow up. Even you may not be around to see your grandchildren grow up. (I was about the same age you were when our respective youngest children were born, so this is something I think about fairly often). It is critical that they have a close relationship with their older siblings, who may end up as parental figures and almost certainly as grandparent figures to your children's children.

As I am sure you know if you are a doctor, ulcers are not caused by stress as previously believed, but by a bacteria.

Well, I could cite event after event that might strengthen my argument that this woman needs to find her own place. Yes, the boys do love her - after all, I've done my job and they've never sensed any of my private feelings. However, trying to raise three young boys, work 3 long days per week and cook/keep house is enough for me under ideal situations. Adding another person to pick up after and cook for has been difficult.

Last week, my stepdd's mother came by to pick her up. I had to deal w/ her for over an hour until my step got home. I do not care to have to deal w/ this woman who tried to ruin my name and my practice, but feel strongly that my step should be able to have her mother over. BTW, the mother lives alone so it seems apparent to me that that would be the logical place to stay while getting on one's feet. But, she'd never pay for the girl's car, ins, cell phone, and credit card bills...plus we are steps to the ocean. She also has a bunch of friends always visiting from college which is tough - it gets loud and I still have to get three little boys to sleep and two of them to school daily...

Another night recently, I was cleaning the stairs at 10:45 pm. I was bent over in a night shirt and turned around to hear giggles as she and her date stood at the bottom. I was mortified.

But, that's all petty stuff w/ me. The fact is that having any of the grown kids around (I largely raised my now teenage nephews and my sons adore them, too, but I know them moving in would drive me nuts) is distracting to my boys and this girl shows little respect for my husband or myself. I really don't want my kids mouthing off the way she does. I may have failed to mention that I asked three things of her when she moved in: to clean up after herself (doesn't happen usually - better since the blow out, but it's another 'honeymoon' phase), to let me know if she won't be home for dinner and to let me know if she won't be home at all. The last two never happen and once when I had her dinner in the warming drawer and she came home, I offered it to her. She said that she had eaten and her dad joked, "You were supposed to let Dana know..." and the answer was yelled, "I KNOW!" My boys and I were startled, my husband said nothing. This outburst isn't uncommon, though rarely directed at me, and isn't how I want my children to feel it is acceptable to behave.

My stepDD also treats the younger two FAR differently than the oldest. I didn't mention that, either. She's always yelling at the oldest - sometimes w/ reason, sometimes being overly touchy. That's hard to take as a mom. I'm not sure if it is at correlated to his attention issues, but it has irked me and my mother, who independent of me made a comment about it.

She forks every bill that arrives over to her dad which is also not the way I want my children raised. She gripes when he forgets to do something for her (she had car trouble last month and complained endlessly about him procrastinating on ordering the part needed. I finally told her to handle her affairs herself. She listened, as I said, she rarely challenges me or anything, but I completely do everything around here for her and our relationship is sometimes like cordial acquaintances. In her defense, my husband is a huge procrastinator, but she was able to drive her brother's car in the interim (another long story) since we can't unload that car, so she wasn't slumming it.

No, the age difference isn't an issue w/ me.

I had a very sour ending to my stepson's living with us. I bent over backwards for him and he was really lacking in gratitude. He is SO bright, but quit college after SIX years and refused to work. He also stuck me w/ his student loans as I felt so close to him, was the only one in the family w/ "credit", so I cosigned for him. I'm not trying to hold this against my stepdd, but I do feel that my husband is not creating independent adults but a codependent situation. Yes, my problems are far more w/ their father, I suppose, and I've decided to seek professional counseling to give me coping strategies.

I believe my ulcer began years ago after a year of taking ibuprofen following a serious car accident which left me many injuries and continuing back/neck pain. Now, I guess I did sound like I was blaming this ulcer on the current situation which is not likely the case. However, stress aggravates any ulcer as we all know and I am certainly stressed out w/ this living arrangement. The bottom line is that I'm uncomfortable and can't carry on my normal routine. I'm a venter and can't comfortably do so w/ someone else in the house. On the weekends, I'm tiptoeing around, trying to keep the boys quiet if she's still asleep. Imagine yourself w/ a permanent houseguest. It's gets uncomfortable after awhile.

Dana

I wish I had more sound advice for you,but it would seem your husband really needs to get behind you on this.
Whether or not she is part of your nuclear family,she is an adult,and should be showing some independence here.
I was out the door before I was even 18 years old.I had a job and paid rent before I was even old enough to vote or drink.
People like your step daughter dont realize how extremely lucky they are to have such support as an adult!

However,I read somewhere that being somewhat of a negligent parent helps make kids more independent.Maybe your husband doesnt realize that instead of helping his daughter,he may actually be enabling her to be lazy.

Yet,I would like to think if my husband's daughters needed to move in after college,that we would help them for a bit too.However,I'd probably feel just as stressed as you if they didnt follow the rules or help out.You are absolutely right,you dont need one more person to pick up after~exspecially not an adult capable of doing so herself.

I think it is great you want to go to counseling to help you,but I think absolutely,your husband needs to go.Forget the fact about his daughter~if your marriage isnt happy,then your whole household will not be happy.
And I DO agree that having a guest,be it part of the nuclear family or not,is a distraction to kids~exspecially during the school year when things are so hectic.I can understand why you'd want her out before the new school year begins,and I think it is BEYOND reasonable! Frankly she is lucky to be there that long.

When my oldest kids graduated from college, at one point each one of them lived at home for about a year. I loved having them home. Their little siblings loved having them home. Yes, sometimes they argued with their siblings, and it was crowded because I live in a tiny ranch with one bathroom and much of the time I slept on the couch in the living room. They did contribute some financially, and cooked dinner fairly often when they were around to do it. I would not have asked them to contribute financially if it weren't for the fact that we are living just above the poverty level. I wish I could be one of those parents who could help with the downpayment when the kids buy their first house.

I was happy for them when they moved out, because they wanted to be on their own, and they have good jobs - but I miss them terribly and so do their siblings.

You mentioned that your mother babysits for your children while you work. I assume that you pay her the going wage for family daycare.

Ok so she is 24...She has been a house guest for over 4 months and is planning on staying another 3-6 months still as a guest?

You cook and clean up after her? She contributes nothing to her own finances asks daddy to pay her bills for her? So she has basically reverted to childhood.

Its different when its your own child because you can say ... I am not your maid clean up after yourself and daddy backs you up. But the minute you say that to a adult stepchild it becomes oh she hates me, daddy says I don't have to. If she lived with mom or friends would she clean up after herself? take responsibility for her own bills?

I know I would be bugging if my daughter was out by my pool with her pals while I did her laundry. The laundry would jump into the washer itself before I did it for a 24 yr old. My oldest step daughter is 17 I have never washed her clothes... I keep a seperate laundry basket for her clothes and put them in there... so she has a laundry hamper in her room and in the bathroom. She can wash them or wear them dirty. And yes I did the same for my own at 12 they both earned the right to wash their own clothes.

"coolmama" - Thank you for your input. It's very true that if I'm not happy, the household isn't completely at ease. I firmly agree that my husband needs to be a united front w/ me. Given the trouble w/ his grown son, I'm dumbfounded as to why he would risk having the same thing happen here. As I said, that's a long story, but basically the kid was afforded every opportunity and just was downright lazy and expected everything to be handed to him. We gave him $ for his car, he used the money for other things, it was repo'd and my husband moved heaven and earth to get it back. I was appalled that he didn't hand the kid a bus pass - par for the course... 2 years later, the kid left school (though very bright, he was living in a partying city and we aren't sure if he dropped out or failed out) and refused to speak to us. We had no falling out, but he is gay and not at peace w/ it. We pleaded w/ him to have a relationship w/ us, he never called us, and we still paid for the car and still pay for his cell phone, hoping he'll want to talk someday. Anyway, we finally repo'd the car to ourselves to see if he'd call - only texted us, so we kept the car and are trying to sell it.

As you see, there's a history. BTW, the son, when living w/ us, was supposed to work for us one summer in exchange we'd "help" him get a car. He showed up twice, slept til 3:00 every day. Well, my husband bought him the car anyway and I nearly left. He never stands behind me and they manipulate him. We have so much debt after the building fiasco w/ our house that it's not even funny.

I feel like telling my husband that I'm taking him away for a weekend and show up on Dr. Phil!

Thanks again,
Dana

she quit because they wanted her to work the day after Thanksgiving".

Naw! No way! In *retail*???

She quit so she could move into her father's new beachfront home.

and your husband knows it.

There's no way to live a happy, normal life with a passive/aggressive person.

Every time you get happy because you think you've *finally* gotten things on track, he'll sabotage the whole structure.

& open his eyes wide & say in an injured tone that he doesn't know *why* you're mad at him, he didn't do anything.

He'll keep you so busy putting out brush fires that you won't be able to take the long view, to get some perspective on what's actually going on & what the future is likely to be like.

sound familiar?

Fathers often do over-indulge manipulative 'children' out of guilt ("I moved out on my family, I'm the reason she's unhappy");
a halfway skillful 'child' can leverage that for a lifetime!

But since even his young son's problems don't make any difference in this father's behavior, there must be more in it than guilt.

Like the fact that, although the two of you have the same level of education & the same earning capacity, he's in control & you're frazzled, stressed out, & miserable.

& you're a domestic servant, cleaning the stairs & keeping food warm for his rude daughter.

so I don't think that the problem is "her" so much as it is "him & her".
The two of them are working as partners to get what they want, & it's working very well.

They have no reason to accomodate you; doing so would, in fact, reduce their satisfaction with life.

I think it's time for one or the other to move out of the 'dream (nightmare) home' & let life calm down.

Just in case you're not ready to take that step, & I do know that we have to be 'ready', you might change some things to reduce your stress while you give him one more opportunity to shape up:

Stop enabling her!
no holding food in the warming drawer, no "bending over backwards", no talking to her like you're too dumb to realize that she's your rival & that she enjoys making a fool of you.

This is your territory, you're the alpha female, your cubs are suffering, you need to assert yourself (stop cleaning those stairs, for crying out loud, & never ever act like you're "trying to work with her").

Tell hubs that he's treading on thin ice for lying to you, that he well knows that you never would have agreed to have his grown daughter move in forever, that she's outstayed her welcome not only by length of "visit" but by behavior & attitude, & that he's to get her out of there at once.

Then give *her* a date (do *not* expect him to actually follow through; he doesn't believe you'll take any action if he does nothing), & if she isn't out, put her belongings in storage & change the locks.

He'll likely become indignant & proclaim that "it's his house too", *& he may have her move back in*.

You need to be prepared for that to happen.

If this "girl" moves back in, *she'll* have absolute free rein to treat you like dirt, & *he'll* enjoy it.

If she moves back in, it means that your husband is so sure of his control that he believes that he has nullified your power, that you are completely powerless.

(This is what abusers of all sorts do to their victims: physical/emotional/sexual abusers, p!mps, drug dealers, all of them, because it really works)

At that point, you must move on & get a real life, one in which you are not property but an independent young professional woman raising her family, or maybe at some point, a valued partner to a loving person who feels grateful to have you.

You can do this;
You are a healthy young woman, you can manage your own life & your own home, & you can raise your children to be happy, well-adjusted human beings without getting ensnarled in disfunction & co-dependence.

I wish you the best.

Thank you for your input. Yes, I do pay my mother. She used to work in our office 4 days/week. She babysits 3 days/week and I made sure that my decision to have a family didn't negatively impact her financially, so she kept the same salary. We've never had a babysitter, but mom is having some aches and pains that worry me as I don't want to be uncomfortable. She still insists, "We can handle this w/o anyone outside." Next year, the 4 y.o. will be in "all day" school along w/ the oldest, so she'll only have the "baby" (almost 3, but I'm keeping him home til he's 4, something I didn't do w/ the older 2). My mother loves them beyond belief and I joke, spends her paycheck on them regularly. My parents don't have money, but have always provided for my brother and I most of our wants. W/ me, I have a great deal of gratitude and take care of them however I can. My brother is more like my steps - selfish and manipulative. I guess watching him take advantage of my parents has made me more certain I won't do it w/ my own sons and I try to explain to my husband that just like my mother, he isn't helping his adult children!

My parents cried that they couldn't ever help us w/ the down payments for homes or throw me the wedding they dreamed for me. After supporting me through getting my doctorate, though I had academic and athletic scholarships, I told them that I wouldn't dream of them doing any more for me. I meant it and we threw ourselves a beautiful wedding 10 years ago.

So, your children feel the love you have for them as I did. Why my brother and steps expect everyone to sacrifice for them is beyond me.

Like you, I would gladly invite my college grad sons to return home, but I'd have a comfort zone where I could yell at them if they annoyed me and I could say, "Hey, buddy, I'm not your maid. Get over here and help."

Also, I lived at home after prof. school, paid all their utilities (wouldn't dream of having them pay for any of my personal bills), and cleaned the house top to bottom each Sat. afternoon. They were helping w/ my nephews then, so when I came home, I took that over (they called me "Mommy" for years) which took a lot of pressure off of my mother.

My stepdd did cook once each of the first two weeks. I was hoping that on Wed, my late nights, she would do that, but she's into her own life, comes and goes, etc. There's no drinking, drugs, swearing, or anything, but there's also no assistance, no offering of anything really.

Thank you,
Dana

Wow, you hit the nail on the head! A good friend of mine told me to put her wet things in a basket beside the washer(she starts laundry, then forgets about it - I need to do 2 loads/day w/ a family of 5 or I'm sunk!)

You are so right when speaking of the comfort zone I'd have w/ my sons. Plus, do I really think my stepdd, her sister or her brother will give much thought to my well-being when I'm in my old age? Doubtful! On the surface, the girls are very nice and courteous, but living w/ them is altogether different and the bottom line is that I'm uncomfortable. We supported this one through college, so I'm not sure why she needs so much time now - it's not like she has tons of loans to pay back. In her defense, we did not have to support her a couple of years as she did have a scholarship, but it didn't cover everything.

Thank you for your help,
Dana

Sylvia,

I'm w/ you on this stuff. The story about why she quit Macy's - being oppressed by the mangagement as they expected her to work the day after T-giving - the BIGGEST shopping day of the year was too much for me! And, when I said, "You quit before finding another job?" She said, "Well, don't worry, I've saved up lots of money - I graduated in the summer and have been working for FOUR months!" It was about 2 days later that the "she's going to have to stay w/ us a few months" was dropped on me. Give me a break. Even my lazy brother has a great work ethic - our parents always instilled in us the need to get to work early, take the shifts they give you w/ a smile, and make them want to never lose you.

Anyway, due to husband's lack of credit, the properties we own are "mine" as is the practice. It's never sat well w/ him, but I refuse to put him on the titles w/ the way he handles money. So, if anyone hits the curb, it won't be me. I'm not unrealistic and I know that his patient base is larger than mine (he works 4.5 days/week, I'm on 3 days) and I know that he's the primary breadwinner. However, w/o me, there'd be no house or practice, so he can't take too much of a power trip w/ me.

My mom and I talk about the steps not being the real problem - the way my husband parents them is. I think I'll have to insist he go w/ me to therapy to gain perspective. I won't tolerate another scene like I did on Good Friday. I'm w/ you on insisting she knows the "move out" date, so I will most likely have to mention it specifically to her and risk it being interpreted as a threat to her.

Yes, I do feel like the other woman. After my Good Friday scans, the boys and I were exhausted and we all crashed in my room - two in the bed w/ me, one on a little mattress on the floor there "just in case" one of them needs it. Anyway, the door to my room burst open and I jumped up. She said, "Oh you ARE here! I didn't know you were here." I wanted to yell, "What the heck are you doing barging into my room whether you think I'm here or not?" No boundaries.

Dana

"No boundaries" sounds so benign.

That was an invasion.

& she knew it, & she did it to make you jump.

I'm so sorry, I've been through something similar, & it just does not get better.

Once, when I was whining & crying about the way this one man was acting/treating me, a wise friend said, "Sylvia, do you know how to predict the future? Look at the past. The way people have behaved all their lives is the way they'll behave til the day they die."

When I reflected on how this particular man had pulled the rug out from under wives, girlfriends, & business partners, I blew my nose & went on to other things.

You need to completely quit doing anything for this woman, and for your husband! She would be out of there. I would confront both her and your husband...tell them like it is! Tell her she has to go. She is never going to respect you, never. TOW - her situation is completely different, this is stepkids not respecting her, would you put up with your kids or if SK's if you had them, doing this? No way.

I see a couple of different issues at play:
- Law of nature "Get out of my nest" syndrome,
- Responsible parent "foster adult independence" philosophy,
- Annoying houseguest response.

The 'Get out of my nest' issue is one you're going to have to acknowledge and process on your own. It seems to be a pretty natural response faced by a whole lot of stepmothers who find themselves thinking how 'perfect' their little families would be if only DH's annoying children would go away. That's the totally unpadded stark view of it, and certainly, your views are not so extreme, but there does appear to be a little bit of this going on. The thing is, until you acknowledge this little piece and put it in its own column for analysis, it will continue to color everything you see. And, it will be in the back of your husband's mind in every conversation you have with him, coloring his perceptions of everything you say.

The 'foster adult independence' philosophy is something that's much more palletable - noble even. And this is an area where you and your DH should be able to get on the same page. Of course, since they're his kids, he should have the primary say, but there's no reason you can't bring up the topic for discussion. Assuming Daddy forked over good money for a good education (tell me she has a degree in something useful), he probably also wants to see her independent. A little skilled wifely guidance (some might call it manipulation) could be helpful here...

Then there's the 'Houseguest from He!!' issue. Again, I'd initiate a discussion with your husband to determine what her position will be in the household. Is she a 'guest' for you to wait on? (Certainly not!) Or a member of the family? And if so, an Adult member, with a responsibility to contribute to the running of the household? Or a Child, who is subject to your rules? In any case, her behavior needs to be kept within limits that won't be disruptive to your young children. Basic things like "all quiet and no houseguests after 9:00 pm on school nights," and "This bathroom is yours."

Just my opinion, but I think separating the issues will help you solve some of them. And definitely get your DH on the same page before you announce any rules or deadlines to your SD. Those should come either from him or from both of you in a family meeting format. Otherwise, you'll not only be blamed, but undermined.

Jenny - sadly I'm not assertive - much bolder here where I can speak freely than IRL. But, you are correct in basically saying that I do teach people how to treat me. I have decided against finishing any laundry for her from here on out. Ironically, last night I was doing a load. I always err w/ the dryer on the "wet" side, then take out the more delicate items and restart the dryer. Well, she took my things out and began folding them in front of her father. They were largely wet, I thanked her, and took over. Maybe she was just trying to help, maybe trying to feel like now she's helped me out. She didn't need the dryer, just heard it go off and wanted to help out...

You are so right. I do have three separate issues and I guess the first two are really under my skin! I worked too darned hard for this house and it's just not the fantasy I had when I struggled to fund it and dreamed of decorating it. The lack of boundaries is just part of it. Her bathroom is also a community bathroom and it's rarely presentable. But, again, short term, I could deal.

The fostering of adult kids is a huge issue. My husband is creating invalids!

The houseguest thing is my fault. "The easier you make it, the easier they take it" was said to me by a wise friend.

Anyway, she was gone for 2 days and I was at ease. Today, my comfort zone was eliminated once more....

I do feel as though I need to hear w/ my own ears that we all agree 7/31 is the last possible move out date, but I agree w/ someone who posted earlier that if it comes from me alone, the waters will be very muddied once more. I'm still just at odds w/ my husband, however, so I'm not even in the mood to talk whatsoever. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired!

Dana