I can't imagine that the girl would be better off living with someone who thinks of her as an "unruly brat," "the type of kid I really do not like," and who "infuriates me to the point that I have to walk away or I will haul off and smack her" than she is with her mother.

TOS,

I have read your other posts towards SMs and find your opinion to be unqualified, biased and unwanted. I am looking for advice from other Step Parents not from BMs who are looking to get revenge on the people that care for their children while they are gone.

As for my feelings towards SD, they are all due to the parenting that she is getting at home. We mold children into the people they become. In her current situation she is ignored, forgotten and mistreated by her SF and older siblings with (admittedly) no interference from her BM. While I may not like the type of child she is currently, I know she can be better with the proper care, attention and home life. Even though she may annoy the piss out of me at times, my own son does the same (AT TIMES)... that is just part of being a parent.

In otherwords, take your trolling somewhere else kthxbye.

~ Early morning grumpy
Midwest Mommy

I think you have a better chance of snow in July in Louisiana, than you do of convincing the mom that the girl should live with you.

I also think that when you raise the subject, you will put BM back into fighting mode again.

I also am not at all sure that this girl would be better in your home. YOu admittedly dont like her, you dont have any other kids of your own who are six, so you dont know what is proper behaviour for a child of that age. An awful lot of times, people expect kids to be "seen and not heard" and thats not going to happen in a case where there is a huge geographic separation resulting in sporadic visits.

I get the feeling that money is part of this. Do you resent the child support your husband must pay to BM? Especially with him having to pay travel costs.

Also...Looking at the timing, it seems you may have been the other woman in the dads breakup. Whether the marriage was dying or not, and whether it was over before he even met you, you and he got together so soon after the split that BM, and probably SD, may blame you to some extent.

If you are serious about wanting this girl with you, then you need to build a decent relationship with her, get help for your frustration issues, perhaps some parenting classes or family therapy to help you all to learn to love each other and cooperate together. Its not that hard at six to change things. Kids that age KNOW when they arent wanted, and some kids that age will push, until you react in a way that works with them. Hint, that way is NOT for you to smack her or yell at her. That will only reinforce the problem.

I think you would be far better to concentrate on learning to be a happy stepfamily than to think on custody. If you build a decent relationship, where the child feels safe and loved, and at peace, then at some point in the future, if the child is closer to her father than her mother, the girl herself may change custody ( usually in the teens)

Trying to get custody at this point will destroy the fragile peace your husband and his ex have, disrupt the childs life further, stress everyone out, and you will almost certainly lose, barring any criminal activity on the mothers part.

Kathline, Thank you for your response I think that you are correct on pretty much everything.

I have no idea how 6 year olds are supposed to act, we pretty much go by what her BM says. I really wish everything could be *poof* perfect but I know that they can't.

I really am not sure if SD thinks of me as TOW or not, I know that BM doesn't. I do have money issues with BM only in that she is very irratic in when she does or doesn't want money and she always "needs" money for things that I don't really agree with. (she will ask for money to buy the family dog but never asks for money for clothes, school or dance even when we offer) I have no issues with the child support and would have never married DH if he wasn't paying (my dad never paid)

You are right in saying that we need to work on becoming a family. I think that SD is very lucky to have two families who care about her well being.

She is coming to stay with us during spring break and I am hoping that it will go well. We have some pretty standard house rules and I'm not really sure how to introduce her to them. Should it be done supernanny style with.. here is a board of house rules or should they be brought to her attention as needed? Our rules are basicly, no hitting, no swearing, share with your family, and do what the parents ask you to IE: brush your teeth, take a bath etc..

I think and hope that the more time we spend with her the more we can teach her and give her the attention she needs from us. I am deffinitly trying to be a good SM (if I wasn't I wouldn't have posted here) and I always have and always will treat her the same as my son, I just hope she realizes that.

Thank you again for your post it really helped :)

-Midwest Mommy

midwestmommy,

When I first read your original post, I didn't really know what to think. I knew theotherside (or the other one) would say something like what WAS said, and while even I thought it was harsh, it was pretty much how I felt at one time about my SD. She WAS an 'unruly brat' and sometimes, she still gets an attitude and is a brat. I had three kids and they are also brats at times, so it's not because I'm not her mom that I say that, it's because it is what it is. (Speaking on my kids, I've also, at times, wanted to smack 'em. Doesn't mean I did, but I understand the feeling.)

I also understand how a child can be more difficult when they live in one house with no rules or very relaxed rules, then go to a house where there is more structure. It's usually hardest on the structured family, since kids like to test and see how far they can get. Then, it rubs off on the younger children in the structured family, then there is chaos. So, I see how it would seem to be a better solution to have her come live with you. If the mom is losing interest in parenting (which I didn't think could happen but my SD's mom is proving me wrong), then she may let her go live there. I think Kathline is right that if she is approached in a manner that makes her feel you are taking her daughter away because she's not a good parent or that you are better parents, she will resist and stay in fight mode. But, if your DH lets her know he's fine with the way it is, but if she ever wants him to take custody, he's more than willing, she may decide it's more convenient for her. It all depends on how she feels. She has her hands full with a lot of kids and knowing this one was, from what I gathered, the product of an affair SHE had with your DH while she was still married, she may treat this child differently. I can imagine that this child is a reminder to her husband of their problems and he may even resent her for being born. He's now raising a child that isn't his, but the older and younger ones are. It makes me wonder if he's bonded with this child or if he treats her like she doesn't belong. I find it strange for the other children to tease her about it, as a mother, I wouldn't allow my kids to tease each other. My kids all have different father's and when they were younger, if I so much as heard, 'well your dad ______', in a tone that was even remotely meant to tease or make the other feel bad, I put a stop to it and reminded them that they are brothers and sister. End of story!

and Kathline, I'm not attacking you, but why is there an insinuation that she was TOW? I get tired of seeing that thrown into the mix when someone posts and says they started seeing each other just after a break up. OP says this child was in between the BM's other two children she has with SF, so I gather OP's husband was TOM and SF is now raising a child he probably resents. Kids that don't like to have a new step parent can see the new step parent as an intruder, but not necessarily TOW/TOM, but sometimes they can also feel that way even if they know their parents were broken up before the new person came along.

I would also recommend OP take a parenting class and therapy if needed, but the feelings she has toward SD are not that unusual. Acting on them is wrong and unacceptable, but being honest about your feelings and knowing you want to change how you feel is more important and better for the child in the long run, than having a step parent that denies having those feelings and ends up building a deep resentment against the child. I think OP has thought a lot about it and searched within herself and really wants things to be better.

I think this poor girl is really angry with her home life and i do agree with you that she needs positive reinforcement but i just dont know how you will convince Biomom for her live at your place.
I think taking baby steps first with her, like the other posts say, build your relationship with her. Take her more often than you do now.
Try to talk her feelings of anger out of her. She's breaking things cause she needs to let out steam.
I completely understand you about not liking kids. I have a 29 month old son who also pisses me off at times. My own family was in shock when i got married to begin with and had a child. I am very work goal oriented and because of my past ( lost my mother to cancer at 11 yrs old), had two step moms, i just couldn't relate to kids. I didn't know how to play with them or just be with them. I felt odd. So when i met my Dh, who has 2 kids from a previous marriage, i didn't knwo what to do. He gets them EOW so i eased into it.
But instinct took over and i go with the flow of things now.
Maybe reading some books may help on parenting for a difficult child. Some child psychology as well. Your dealing with alot of anger here and maybe talking to someone who knows about angry children can also help.
I think for now, getting educated, reading, talking to a professional can help. Learning to adjust to her tantrums. And just trying ot get closer now would be better than custody. The little girl may react more negative if you try to separate her from her Bm that she's known all her life. You said she kept dad away as a weapon to hurt your DH so his daughter is not that close to him.
Concentrate on showing her love at your place, even though it will be difficult at times. I think custody should be thought of later down the line.
And yes, i agree that both sides should stop buying her stuff but to place her in activities where she can vent herself out without hurting herself of course or others.
I hope that helps.! I dont know too much details on her life at home with biomom but from what i've read in your post you sound like a great person for her and her circumstance. Your understanding and want her. You acknowledge that her behaviour pisses u off and that is totally normal. My own son gets me angry at times and i tell my husband to take over while i steam off inthe other room. He's my first as well you know. I think building a trusting friendship with her is the first step and i think you are the right person to do that.

Actually, IMA...If you read what I said, I said that the timing may have the BM and the child assuming that she was the OW, because they were dating so soon after the split. It makes no difference to me. Sometimes marriages are dead long before they end. Unfortunately, dating someone immediately after they separate often earns the assumption that someone is the OW in the eyes of the wife and children..and yes, thats not always fair, but it is human nature. CHildren also sometimes blame the next person because they want mom and dad back together so badly. I am not saying that is the case here, but it could be a factor. When someone is divorcing the tendency is to try to find someone or something to blame other than your own behaviour. Its easier for a woman to blame another woman than to blame herself, and humans, like electricity, often follow the path of least resistance

Thank you all for your advice, this is very helpful to me and I will be using a lot of your tips during spring break! :)

-Midwest Mommy

Hi MidWest
I'm glad you didn't take what TOS said to heart. And I'm impressed at how honest you were about your feelings towards your SD. It's hard to admit that you don't like kids, and even harder - a specific kid (I'm not saying it's a good thing to not like your SD, just that I'm glad you had the guts to say it)

Anyhow, I understand your situation well.
I love kids, but can sometimes find my BF's 9 yo son, A__, very frustrating. He has a wonderful big heart, and I love him to teenytiny bits, but there are days that he drives me up the wall, and then possibly across the roof and out the window on the other side, and it took me awhile to get to love him so much. So I think I have a bit of a perspective on how you feel and I will share how I have grown in the same sorts of things.

"She whines, lies, hits, cries at the drop of a hat, breaks things and is generally disrespectful of everything when we are together as a family."
A__ did that sort of thing too. One night that A__ wasn't there, I calmly discussed with BF that "I love having A__ around, but I'd like to talk about some of his behaviors that I don't think are acceptable. Ultimately, the decisions about A__ and his behavior are yours, but I want you to know what's a problem for me. How can we remedy this? What are you willing to do? What would you like me to do?" etc... And then we started doing what we talked about. All those sorts of behaviors are getting better every month - A__ hasn't even been sent for a time-out since before Christmas!!
I urge you to talk to DH calmly, at a time when SD isn't there. Obviously you have to be tactful, and let him know that you bring this up because you want to happily include her in the family and you think the two of you need to find a way to facilitate building a good family unit. Talk to him quietly and when you're both relaxed, don't blame him for it, try not to say "she's a bad example for our child", just be clear that you want to improve things so that everyone can be happier.

"so I feel for this girl so much that it hurts and makes me cry. But at the same time, she infuriates me to the point that I have to walk away or I will haul off and smack her."
Look at the bright side - if you truly hated your SD and the relationship was irreparably hopeless, you wouldn't feel for her. You wouldn't cry at what a rough go she's had. You'd think "that brat deserves all the hardship life can deal her" and wouldn't care how much she's been hurt.
To me, right there, that says that you can build a good relationship with her!
To help form a good bond with A__, I looked at myself and the things I like, to try to find things in common with a (then) 8 year old boy who has monster ADHD. I came up with that I love science, and hockey and sci-fi/fantasy, I do judo, and I like to build things and make crafts. So I started looking for things I could do with A__ in those areas. We started going to junior hockey games (sort of like college hockey for you Americans). We watch Buffy together and are reading some of my sci-fi books from when I was a kid. I bought a whole bunch of markers and construction paper and crafty type things for he and I to make "scenes" for his dinosaurs and squids and knights etc and then he wages epic battles and tells me about them. I teach him how to escape from judo holds (I won't teach him how to put them on yet - he's not mature enough).
This was a helluvalotta work, but I found things that I enjoy doing with A__ and that makes spending time with him MUCH better. We're both enjoying ourselves! He doesn't like to cook or shop or alphabetize or go for walks, so I don't involve him in those things with me (alphabetizing is a perfectly valid hobby!). I don't like to play video games or soccer, and he's cool with that, because we have lots of other fun things to do together.
On days when I'm not thrilled with him, it can be hard to motivate myself to sit down at the table with him and colour a scene for him to wage an epic battle on, but I know that he'll be better behaved for the rest of the day if I do it.
It's also convenient to use "if you can go without whining / if you can leave the cat alone / if you can clean up after yourself / ALL afternoon, I'll teach you a judo escape before I make supper" as motivation to be good.
I really suggest finding some things you and your SD both like and making them into joint hobbies. It made a world of difference for us!
When I'm at my wit's end, I just go have a quiet cup of coffee with my book or I run a bath. I say "I need alone time" and I go take it. That's the luxury of when it's not your OWN kid - you get to walk away when you have to. I often say quietly to BF on my way out of the room "Can you please calm him down while I am in the other room? I'm ready to crack" and BF does. Funnily enough, A__ has actually taken to doing it too - he was fed up with us the other day and said "I'm going to go read my book on the couch and I don't want anyone to bug me for ten minutes because I'm mad". We were impressed at that he found a quiet way to calm down and commented on it afterwards, that it was a very grown-up thing to excuse himself and calm down, instead of throw a fit. So setting a good example goes a long way!

"DH does not know how to deal with her, and life with BM has no dicipline... ... How do we start to dicipline a six year old who has never really had any rules?"
Oh, I sure know this one. Until A__, BF had never spent time with a kid. He has no nieces or nephews, no young cousins, no friends with kids. He feels quite overwhelmed by A__ on a regular basis. He admits it, and tries to deal with it, so I think it's OK.
A__ lives at FOUR different houses (BM, her mom, us, and BF's dad) and never has any idea where he will be next. Grandma had virtually no rules for him and doesn't even make him do his homework. BM is a good mom when she bothers to be a mom, but mostly she wants everybody else to take care of A__ for her. Papa and SGM are pretty good with him, but I think maybe they're a bit too rigid and expect him to conform to what they like for him to do, rather than letting him have his own interests and ideas.
So when we get him from Grandma's, he's running wild like a hellcat and won't listen to anything because he's had no rules. When we get him from Papa's, he rebels against the slightest structure because he's had too many fences while he was there. When we get him from BM, he's either sad to leave her because he rarely sees her, or he's mad at her because she was making him do chores and his bad mood stays all day.
So, what we try to do... Whenever possible, we chat with him about his day in the car, then come straight home, and pop in a Buffy episode or some cartoons for a bit while he colours or something and we work out what the plan is for the day. This is good no matter where we pick him up from, because it's structured enough that he'll switch out of hellcat mode if he was at Grandma's, but he gets "free-time" during this 45 minutes or so to relax from being at BM's or Papa's...
We also have family rules now that are working really well. When BF and I made them, we went through them with A__, using silly examples of "following the rules" and "not following the rules"... Like for the rule of "accept it of you don't get your way or have to share" I said "So if there's one cookie left, and we all want it, what should we do? Share it, yeah, that's right! Well, but what if I want it all for me? Can I run off with it and stuff it all in my mouth before you guys can have some too? Can I scream and yell and stamp my feet? What if Dad didn't want to share it? Could he throw it in the garbage so no one else could have any either?" Our rules have been working really well and we can just say things like "Is that respecting things like furniture and electronics so that you don't break them?" and he gets down off the back of the couch. So in response to your later question about the rules, I'd say go through them as a list, but be a little fun about it - she'll remember it better and not feel quite as imposed upon. Try to keep to no more than child's-age-plus-two for the number of rules (we have 11 rules, you should have no more than 8) and try to keep them positive (ie - "Keep your hands and feet to yourself" instead of "No hitting or kicking")
I know how hard it is to have a kid you're not used to steamroll your home and way of life, but I really believe they don't mean to be steamrollers, they just don't know how to adjust. For awhile, we had to be hard@sses, and tolerate very little nonsense. We all spent a few pretty unhappy weekends, where A__ spent hours sobbing in time-out, BF and I were ready to strangle each other and I was on the brink of walking out the door, never to return. But once BF and I learned to be a united front, A__ learned that his Dad and I were now a united front, and we wanted to have him around regardless of if he was being good or bad, but that when he's good, everyone gets along and we have lots of fun, things started getting better. BF has gotten much more patient with him because he has me as support, I've gotten much more patient with him because I have BF as buffer, and he's gotten much better with us because he knows that there are rewards and consequences.
We set up rewards and consequences (Like if you're nice to the cat all day, we'll have popcorn in the evening. Or if you brush your teeth and put on jammies without stalling, you get an extra 15 minutes of computer time, but if you stall, you go directly to bed.) We tried really hard to be consistent (and it was HARD, let me tell you!) and we made sure to say each reward or consequence whenever it became applicable to remind him ("The cat looks mad, it's time to let her be, or there will be no popcorn") and eventually it started working!
If SD is a kid that likes stickers and charts and stuff, maybe you could set up a rewards chart? That didn't work when BM tried it with A__ (he cheated and snuck stickers on it himself) but lots of people have great success with it.
Another good approach used by many moms and SMs on here is rewards for when the kids are "caught being good". The rewards range from a high-five, to picking a goodie from the surprise bag, to swimming at the public pool the next day... Whatever works for you, but when you "catch" her being good, acknowledge it. I made a HUGE scene the other day, complete with hopping up and down, cheering, hugs and kisses and high-fives because while I was in the shower and blowdrying my hair, A__ got dressed, put his pajamas in the hamper, put his juice glass in the sink, and tidied up his colouring! I was so freaking happy I almost cried! He pretended to be embarrassed by my scene, but you could tell he was really pleased that I noticed it all and made a big deal of it.

"I think this girl is LOST, she needs help. She needs a home with positive attention and people who love and support her... ... She is six years old and I feel like if we don't do something to help her soon, her life will end up so much worse than if we stepped in and helped her.... ... I really feel that it is in SD's best interest to come live with us and DH agrees with me. At the same time, I have no idea how to deal with this girl.... ... How do we approach her BM with the idea of her coming to live with us? How do we approach SD with that? "
I feel the same way about A__. His life is a MESS and no one but BF and I seem to think this is a problem. He's a tween now and he needs more support and stability than he has if he's going to be successful when he hits his teens.
There's no way he would be coming to live with us, but we want to have him more, so that he can have more stability and support than he has right now. At the same time, I question if I'm really able to give him that support and stability. I think we are, but am quite worried about it anyways. Our life is upside-down right now because BF's home flooded, so he moved in with me, and I'll be moving to his place once it's all renovated. A__ will finally have his own room once we move back (BF's brother lived with him before, so A__ slept on the couch) and it will be a much better "home" for a little boy. BF has talked to BM about that once we're at his place again, we'd like to have A__ a little more and help him have more structure.
In your case, why not start small? After this week, say "we'd like her for two weeks right when school lets out". At that point, once BM sees two successful visits, broach it then, first to BM, and then include SD in the conversation. It will be less out of the blue if SD has just spent time with you and BM won't feel as though SD has been coached if you haven't talked to her about it yet. I would suggest talking to SD about it when both Dad and BM are there (you and her stepdad are less essential to this conversation and may put even more emotional pressure on her without trying)
While SD is with you, make sure SD feels like she's at her own home, not visiting yours (her own toys and space, her favourite foods in the fridge, her own brands of toiletries in the bathroom). BF was out of the country at the time of the flood, so I moved him into my place on my own. I made sure to unpack all A__'s stuff right away, and stock the bathroom and cupboards with his favourites before the first time he came over. He settled in right away and seems to have adjusted to the change really well. He even told his mom that "Ceph had all my stuff set up for me right when I got there! All my toys and toothbrush and everything! She even had up pictures of me!". I really recommend that you and DH make sure there are photos of her and her "own stuff" to make her feel like part of the family.

This is a hard spot to be in... But just judging by that you sought help by posting here, I think you'll all work it out!

Hi there. I am also new here. I have been everywhere on the net, reading books, buying books, anything I can find on being a good step mother. Well, it's actually even harder for me because my BF and I aren't married. We have both been divorced and he doesn't want to get married again. I wasn't sure right after my divorce. But now I know I want to remarry. I just don't know if I can remarry someone with kids. It is impossible to me to figure out how to make it work with kids, and ex spouses involved.
I just wanted to tell you, you ARE NOT alone. There are SO many other people who are having difficulty making blended families work. You can just look at all the materials out there for this very subject and you can see how common these issues are. I just wanted to tell you not to feel guilty or let anyone make you feel guilty. Our feelings are normal and most of REALLY WANT to love and care for our step kids. It's just a difficult situation for all involved. Please email me anytime. My heart goes out to you. I am going to post my story and questions here and hopefully get some advice that will help. Good luck to you.