Asking for advice on tools to share with a stepchild is 'interfering'? Wow... I take my SD to counseling so she has an outlet to deal with her feelings about what her mom does. She lives with us and if she is upset over what her mom says or does, she takes it out on us... me. Her relationship with her mom is her relationship with her mom, I have nothing to do with that. But, when you have a child living with you that is clearly having trouble with something, offering them tools to get through it is NOT interfering.

Interfering is if SM calls up mom and tells mom SD does not want to come visit. When SM gets in the mix of talking for SD to mom or making mom deal with SM, then I'd agree THAT's interfering.

One of the things my step mom shared with me is how to be more assertive. She was not interfering, she was giving me great advice for life. It helped me in more than just dealing with my mom. In fact, the advice was meant to deal with a relationship I was in at the time... but I saw value in using it to also deal with my mom, who is quite overbearing & difficult/controlling. It also came in handy with workplace situations, etc.

I couldnt agree more, this is not a negiligent or nonexistent mom. This is a mom who was custody until recently. And SD is a great kid. Everyone here is so quick to blame mom when there are problems with kids, yet no one wants to give her credit.

Frankly, it is almost scary to me, that SM and Dad fight for custody, and then when they get it, SM immediately starts with how to get SD to stand up to mom. To me, this type of action is the type that would discourage any mom from relenting any custody or increased visition.

I don't think anyone has encouraged the kid to "stand up to mom". That is a poor choice of words. Rather the kid needs to be HONEST with mom. If she honestly doesn't want to go she should be able to say so to her own mother without fearing recourse of sorts.

I don't think the step parent in this situation cares either way except she hates to see the child miss out on something she has been looking forward to. It isn't a competition over who can win based on the what the child decides to do. If she goes to the wedding MOM WINS! If she stay for the play STEP MOM WINS! PUH-LEASE. The kid doesn't want to go and she is scared to tell her mom. It isn't even a step issues. All the woman did was tell the kid she should be HONEST with mom. No body is trying to win affections.

The issue of SD feeling she can't tell her mom how she really feels came up well before mom let her go live with dad. It was the main issue in the custody battle. SD wanted to live with dad but didn't know how to tell mom. It's NOT a new issue that SM created now that SD is living there.

It's so freakin' ridiculous how the real issues of a thread get twisted.

All OP asked for is "suggestions on how to help her overcome this fear she has of letting her mom down". She is not saying stand up to her mom. Is it impossible to understand some people need help learning to become more assertive. I sure wish there was advise for me when I grew up.

I think that, even though OP used the situation with mom as a reason, she can give her healthy and proactive options to deal with ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE. Not just her mom. She can present it as a way to deal with this certain type of behavior without it being all about mom. We all have people we don't want to let down for whatever reason or another. Doesn't even have to be a relative.

imamommy...right
ashley...right
doodle and eandhl...right, too.

finedreams and kkny...wrong, as usual.

"Interfering is if SM calls up mom and tells mom SD does not want to come visit. When SM gets in the mix of talking for SD to mom or making mom deal with SM, then I'd agree THAT's interfering."

And yet, nicksmom seemed to think it reasonable that her SD suggested she get in the mix:

"Of course, she wanted me (or Dad) to talk to Mom, because she HATES feeling like she's in the middle."

I still don't understand WHY the the girl would think SHE is in the middle, unless she feels as if her dad and SM don't want her to go. Otherwise what would she be in the middle of?

My SD asks me all the time to communicate things to her mom she doesn't feel comfortable saying, such as she'd rather spend Friday night at a slumber party than at moms. Because she knows her mom generally react with guilt, sometimes with anger, she tries to get out of being the one to discuss these things. When she was younger we would handle it for her - both of us, depending on which one mom liked better at the time - but as she's gotten older we have put more of the responsibility on her. I posted before about the birthday lunch she missed for her best friend because she was at mom's and too scared to ask to go because she'd already missed some 'mom time' for her sport.

I think some of it has to do with how a parent, especially a NCP parent, views visitation/parenting time. If they see it at "their' time they will typically not react well to something interfering, and many seem to react with guilt - "You'd rather go do your sport then spend time with me?" - forcing the child to choose.

If the parent sees visitation/parenting time as their time to share with their child, they seem more open to interferences; realizing that these 'interferences' are a part of their child's life and trying to share them with their child rather than prevent them. "You have your sport this weekend? Great - I'm excited to go watch."

Visitation/parenting time is not just about the parent. It's about building the parent/child relationship, and I've never known guilt and manipulation to be good bonding tactics.

justnotmartha,

You said that your SD tried to avoid conversations with which she felt uncomfortable, but that doesn't have anything to do with feeling like she is in the middle. Lots of people, perhaps most, tend to avoid conversations that make them uncomfortable. I still don't see any reason why the girl would feel like she was in the middle, unless it was because she believes her father/SM don't want her to go visit her mother.

TOS,
She hates being in the middle of her mom's guilt trips. She doesn't like being in the middle of conversations with her, where she feels like she has to defend her wishes all the time.

Also, I think you need to realize that kids who have step-parents in their lives, do see those steps as additional parents. I can't imagine that our situation is unique. Almost all of the step-families I know are much like ours. The step-parents have been around for a long time, and the kids view them as parents. Of course, the kids KNOW that we aren't their biological parents, but they also have little recollection of life without us, know that we love them, and trust us to parent them appropriately. I know my stepkids feel this way, and I imagine they are not alone. So that is why I don't think it's unusual or unwarranted for her to ask me for advice, or to "pinch hit" for her when she feels like she can't handle the situation. Of course, I always encourage her to try on her own, but as one of her four parents (2 bio, 2 step), I also feel responsible to help her when it's needed, as well as discipline, guide, assist, etc. It's what good parents, bio and step alike, do.

JNM,
You win the prize today! You hit it, dead-on!!!

Nicksmom, I think this is a vast overgeneralization that kids see their steps as additional parents. It might be in your case or you might be delusional.

Really, kkny? How do you think kids see their step-parents? Specifically, step-parents who have been involved from an early age...and with whom the child has lived with (for at least part of their life).

Now KK, that wasn't very nice, was it? There was just a topic recently on how many steps are seen as parents by their skids. Heck, mine calls me mom to my face and everyone else, and I'm the first person she comes to for answers, permission, advice . . .
It could be an overgeneralization, or she could be right and you have a limited number of cases to speak from experience on. Regardless, that wasn't called for.

TOS, I wonder if Nicksmom really meant her SD was caught in the middle between mom and SM/dad, or caught in the middle between what mom wants and what she wants for herself. Conversely, she could sometimes feels caught in the middle between what she wants and what SM/dad want. But I think in this case she is torn between doing what mom wants and having the uncomfortable discussion with her on why she doesn't want to go.My guess is mom will see her reasons as an interference, not an experience as I explained above, and SD knows it. My SD has actually used the phrase 'stuck in the middle' or 'torn' between mom's expressed (often selfish, self serving wants) and her own (sometimes selfish, self serving) wants. Many times she has come asking for a way to say "I don't want to go with you" without being hurtful. I give her the same advice on phrasing I would if she was telling a friend she didn't want to go to the mall. . . . with maybe a few more 'I still love you's' thrown in to help with the guilt/anger reaction.

Nick, now you are qualifying your previous overgeneralizaion, and had you said that originally, I would not have regarded it as so overreaching. I think the problem is when one starts overreaching, its hard to determine where reality is. If YOUR SD regards you as a mom, that may be true. But when someone says

"Also, I think you need to realize that kids who have step-parents in their lives, do see those steps as additional parents" --

the credibility starts going downhill.

JNm you are pretty much raising your stepkids and BM is rather crazy. SD in Nick's story has a mom, she was raised by her mom, only recently dad won the custody battle and now SD lives wiht dad. Of course JNM your stepkids regard you as mom, same with doddle's kids and mom2emall. They have nonexistant or barely existant BMs. In OP's story however it is not the case. SD has involved mother.

kkny,
Huh?

Nicksmom -- I dont know what you mean by huh -- as I have said constantly there are all types of SM involvment. Which is waht FD is saying also. When you lump them all togethor, you minimize the work that doodle and others are doing.

one SM on this forum said that she regards herself a sa a parent to her SD whome she saw twice in her life. lol I found it too funny.

I also think that if a person in general is a people pleaser as SD in this thread, she would try to please SM as well, espcially now when SM won a custody battle. She possibly says to mom what mom wants to hear and then to SM what SM wants to hear.

She needs to be in counseliing, she recently change households, states, schools, she needs help. And since dad is the one who won custody he should get more involved, sign her up for counseling etc

kkny,
By "huh?", I meant WTH do you mean by

"Nick, now you are qualifying your previous overgeneralizaion, and had you said that originally, I would not have regarded it as so overreaching. I think the problem is when one starts overreaching, its hard to determine where reality is. If YOUR SD regards you as a mom, that may be true. But when someone says
"Also, I think you need to realize that kids who have step-parents in their lives, do see those steps as additional parents" --
the credibility starts going downhill."

That was a garbled mess and I cannot for the life of me figure out what you were attempting to say...

Alright, let me try this is little words.

First, you said -- "Also, I think you need to realize that kids who have step-parents in their lives, do see those steps as additional parents"

That was not said with limitation. It was a general statement. I think that statement can not be applied to all step-parent relationship equally. My thesarus defines generalization as a sweeping statement, oversimplification, etc., so to call something an over generalization would be saying that you are making too sweeping a statement.

Then, you say, "How do you think kids see their step-parents? Specifically, step-parents who have been involved from an early age...and with whom the child has lived with (for at least part of their life)." - which is at least qualifying, or limiting, your earlier statement. I would have limited it further, as you would lump togethor a SM who has a SC living with her for one year the same as a SM, like Doodle, with whom the stepchildren have lived since an early age.

FD,
You are right on a couple of things. SD does have a mom who remains as involved as possible, given the distance. She remains informed on everything on nearly a daily basis from Dad (or me if she emails/calls me...which she does fairly regularly). BTW, Dad is VERY involved. Doesn't miss a moment. He missed so much over the past 10 years, he can't stand to miss anything. And we've talked about counseling for her. She's not sure about that, but we'll keep talking about it. I think she could benefit from an uninvolved person to talk to, but someone who could also help her with some assertiveness training.

SD doesn't call me mom, although she has asked me what I thought about it. She does refer to Dad & me as "the 'rents" or "my parents" when talking to friends/others. But they all know I'm her step-mom, and to us there's no negative connotation with that. Many of her friends have steppies, too. She was 1 when her parents separated. She has no memory of them living in the same home. She was 4 when her dad & I met. She has little memory of life without me. I was 4 when my parents divorced, and have no real memories of them together. My dad remarried when I was 6. I've always had a great relationship with my stepmom. I could always go to her with questions, problems, stories, good and bad stuff. She was a good role model on what being a good stepmom is. Our relationship has always been good, and I plan on continuing that with my SD.

For the record, my husband and I don't consider ourselves "winners" in the custody "battle". SD is the winner. She was able to communicate what was important to her, her needs, her wishes, etc., and was heard. SHE won.

I am not her mom, I am her stepmom, or her "bonus mom", as she prefers. But I DO parent her daily, I DO mother her. I care for her, guide her, help her, correct her, encourage her, laugh and cry with her.

OK, kkny~
Maybe I should have said "many" or "some". Whatever. Most of the statements you make here are either gross over-generalizations or grossly oversimplified...whichever lends itself to the point that you are trying to make at the moment. Which I might add, is rarely on-topic.

I assumed you could understand a somewhat general statement. Moreover, I thought you could answer a question that was specifically directed at you.

So, let me try to make it a little simpler for you to understand... If you don't think kiks see their steps as parents, then:
1. How do you think kids see their step-parents?
2. What if they are a long-standing fixture in that child's life? How do you think they see them?

Does that work for you? Can you answer the question now that I've clarified it and split it into two, totally separate questions, so as not to be overgeneralizing?

As I have said --

1. It varies, wide range. From an adult authority figure they put up becuase they have no choice (as in my way or the highway), to geniune love.

2. Same as above.

Good Grief! This thread has gone ugly --

Nicksmom's posts have always been focused on what is best for her SD. She's never, to my recollection, gone off on vicious rants about BioMom or Dad or SD, never voiced opinions that are clearly unreasonable

Any for anyone to whom this idea hasn't already occured, my advice about "What would you do if you weren't afraid of upsetting your Mom?"? could just as easily be 'turned against' StepMom and used to get out of the perceived middle there too. It's general problem-solving thinking. Nothing more.

If that is the case, then, why were so aghast that I suggested that stepkids see their step-parents as parents?

"one SM on this forum said that she regards herself a sa a parent to her SD whome she saw twice in her life. lol I found it too funny."

I also think it's funny. Funny thing is, my son is 19. He met his bio father when he was 18 and they have actually only seen each other twice in person. They talk on the phone occasionally. Yet, only meeting him 2 times in his 19 years, my son regards him as his dad. I also find that weird. My son told me "He's my dad."

Regarding yourself as a parent really has nothing to do with how much time is spent sometimes. I grew up several hundred miles away from my grandparents, I only saw them once or twice a year... yet, never questioned the relationship. Some parents live in other states/countries from their kids but still maintain a relationship via phone, email, etc. and only visit a couple times a year. My relationship with my SM was via phone calls from four hundred miles away. She didn't raise or 'parent' me in the traditional sense, but she did have a relationship with me where I believe she 'parented' me with her advice & guidance. The meaning of 'parent' means different things to different people.

Yes, thank you!

It never ceases to amaze me at how derailed posts/questions can get here. I'm simply looking for suggestion FROM OTHER STEPMOMS who might have BTDT...helping a stepkid with a tough situation.

Again, your suggestion is top-notch!

Finedreams says "I also think that if a person in general is a people pleaser as SD in this thread, she would try to please SM as well, espcially now when SM won a custody battle."

Somehow I don't see that SM (or dad) won a custody battle, rather that the girl who is @ 15-16 chose where she wanted to live. I also don't understand why someone as well rounded as she is would need counseling. It appears she is a very happy girl with two sets of parents, doing well in school and involved in as many activities as she can handle. What more could she need, except maybe for her mother to be a little more understanding of her time constraints.

As for a step not really being a parent, sometimes they are. My DS considers my DH to be his dad. His bio-father lives 2 miles from here and except for an accidental meeting in a restaurant he hasn't seen him since he was 12 and he's 33 now. His first child is due in a couple of months and per his wishes the bio doesn't know about it.

Nicksmom, evidently you and your DH are doing a wonderful job raising the kids by them choosing to live with you. Every child should be so lucky with their step parents.

Nicksmom-
I've just been watching the back and forth of this thread and I didn't want to necessarily get caught in the crossfire, but I think assertiveness training would be beneficial. SD(20) was very much like your SD. She had private school education, but for HS her dad wanted her to attend public school. She had choices of schools near her BM or DH. She wanted to go to school here and live w/her dad and sister, but was afraid to tell her BM. This kid practically had an ulcer worrying about for nearly the entire year. When we had her EOW, that's all she would talk about - living here and then having her mom tell her, "you love your dad more than me" and giving her the guilt trip - and then she'd burst into tears. Eventually she had to make her decision and tell her mom. Sure enough, she was told that she didn't love her mom as much by BM and a bunch of other selfish things.

Last November BM got a new car, GAVE another car to older SD and lets SD (20) borrow her 6 year old and unmaintained car for $250/per month and w/the understanding that BM could sell the car anytime she wanted. SD brings the car home and dad and she checked all of the fluid levels - it only had one quart of oil and the tranny fluid was low too. DH ended up spending about $600 on car repairs the first month. Things keep going wrong with the car because it was never properly maintained. In addition, she doesn't always have $250/ea month and the money to feed this gas guzzler. One month she had to pay her mom in installments. BM complained to SD that because of the installments, she was unable to pay her own bills and it was SD fault - she was crying again. Why would anyone lay a trip like that on their kid? Her boyfirend's family w/whom she is very close, her dad, some friends and grandma all say to give the car back to mom. Grandma offered her a car for free (I've kept my mouth shut). She is afraid to tell her mom that she doesn't want the car because of the predictable negative outcome. Finally, a couple of weeks ago the windows stopped working and there were some other electrical problems. She called her mom and said I just can afford this car and all of the repairs. I need to give it back because of the stress it causes. BM was angry and SD got off of the phone in tears.

Perhaps if this SK had some assertiveness training she wouldn't be such a nervous wreck all of the time with her mom. Instead of being assertive and acting mature when dealing with her mom, she mostly puts the phone down and either walks away or makes faces at the phone while BM's voice is chirping. I know why she does it, but it is very disrespectful and wrong to BM. I also know SD gets mouthy w/BM (which fuels this already dysfunctional relationship), but she never actually states what she needs. I think their relationship would improve if SD handled things more maturely and assertively, but that's my opinion.

(Sarcasm intended)

Maybe you should just tell the kid who sleeps in your home to suck it up and get over it and refer all events to Hubby .... just ignore the he!! out of the kid after all you are not her parent. You have nothing to worry about she isn't yours you shouldn't care that she feels insecure about her feelings you should brush it off not your concern. I am sure she will eventually grow up and become a wonderful adult without any guidance from a female figure in her life she is not afraid of.

See thats what I did yesterday with SD as she lay crying on my bed about how much she hates her new school the one her mother enrolled her in... yes thats correct the same child who has "severe anxiety" mom enrolled in a totally different school system and the child hates it.

I told her it was her mom's decision what school to send her to and she needed to talk to her mother about it "I have but mommy won't listen to me" ... (the horror) of not listening to your child who has "anxiety" telling you she doesn't like her school has no friends ... well you just have to keep telling her till she listens. She will never listen. Well, I guess you are going to have to start liking your school sooner or later. I will never like it. I walked away at this point...

gajopa,
I agree and thanks!

gerina,
Sounds like our girls have a lot in common. I don't think my SD's mom would do anything as blatantly obvious as yours did. But the guilt that is put out there is tangible, and really makes is difficult for SD. Honestly, I think that the damage is done, and I have my doubts that SD will ever be able to be frank with her. She's been "trained" for 15 year, and I imagine that she'll finally decide "she is who she is, and I'll always be made to feel guilty". I hope not, but I fear that's how it will go, even with some "assertiveness training". Their adult relationship will suffer, or just be superficial. Which isn't the end of the world, but it is sad. I hope I'm wrong.

pseudo~
I'm sure that's how some insecure biomom's would want SM to handle it. After all, we are no more that Dad's wife. No "real" ties to the child.

Right....

ima, but biodad is bilogically a father even if he is deadbeat. i would hesitate to call him a dad but legally he is. SM who never saw her stepkid is hardly a parent. dad's wife yes, but parent?

"She hates being in the middle of her mom's guilt trips. She doesn't like being in the middle of conversations with her, where she feels like she has to defend her wishes all the time."

That is not what "being in the middle" means. As I am sure you are well aware, "being in the middle" means being caught between two opposing parties who should be dealing with each other directly. It also does not mean being torn between two options.

TOS,

Says you...

You asked, I answered. It was MY words, her "being in the middle". So I get to define what I meant, not you.

Wow FD, you read my post here too???

I'm impressed.

I wouldn't call dad's wife who met child two times a parent. No question. But, if dad's wife might consider herself as a parent in a different sense of the word. As I mentioned, 'parent' means different things. Maybe she talks on phone or emails her stepkids. There might be a 'relationship', even though they don't SEE each other or visit. I didn't see my stepmom but maybe twice a year but she gave me guidance as a parent would. I don't know if she considered herself any sort of parent, but I considered her a parental figure because she was my dad's wife.

Me too, ima.

"So I get to define what I meant, not you."

Not if you actually want to communicate - the thing about language is that if you want to use it to communicate, it is kind of important that all parties pretty much agree on the definitions of the words they use.

Right. My post, my definition. Only I know the message I was trying to communicate. And now you, and the rest of the readers here (most of whom could easily figure it out without exhaustive explanation) can consider yourself informed.

No - your post, standard definition. Works much better. I think you were right the first time. SD does feel like she is caught in the middle, between pleasing her father and you, and pleasing her mother.

No, TOS-
You're wrong again. But we're all used to it.

Why is it a common thread that SMs know all, decide all, can not even allow for a grey area -- perhaps it is part of I was good enought to get the guy -- you are worthless? Which is certainly what I get out of reading posts herr.

This onesideness is why I am so glad I insisted on ROFR and no third party pickups and why I recommend it to all.

Doesn't the OP get to decide what they mean? I mean, KKNY writes "why is it a common thread that SM's...." and when I read it, not sure if she means to use the word 'theme'. That's the word I might have chosen. See, we are all from different walks of life and use different words in our day to day life. Choosing the exact words on a forum is not always so easy, especially when some people type fast as they are thinking and don't spend a lot of time deciphering the words they use and how each person that reads it will interpret it. I think the person writing the post has the best idea of what they are trying to convey, even if they choose the wrong word to say it. I see plenty of misspelled words, transposed letters (from fast typing I'm sure) and the use of the wrong words or words with more than one meaning.

and KKNY, "perhaps it is part of I was good enought to get the guy -- you are worthless?"

Comments like this drip with insecurity... perhaps you can remember that you were good enough to get him first. Then, you were lucky to be rid of him when he turned out to be a toad. Now, he's HER problem, not yours. Was he a prince? Is a guy some sort of prize that you think is needed to be the 'winner'? A second wife gets to bask in the joy of her marriage, just as a first wife does. It doesn't mean that she's any better or worse because she is happy & loves her husband. It doesn't mean she's better because things didn't work out with the first marriage.

If you really think looks are important to the survival of a relationship and that getting the guy is some sort of reward or prize that implies they are the winner, if you really believe that, I'd suggest you get some counseling. I really hope you don't honestly think that way.

Ima, Xs SO may deserve him, but she doesnt deserve any control, access etc etc over our DD.

And I think "your wrong, we are all used to it" is pretty clear.

And I wont let any SM intimidate me by saying I am insecure.

kkny,

With your obvious hostility about SMs in general, I haven't quite figured out why you even participate on this forum. Really. I can honestly say if I weren't a stepmom, I wouldn't be here. And I don't think I would join a forum that is clearly aimed at a specific group. I understand that your DD has been (or is) a stepdaughter, but I'm not sure what you gain by being here.

I come here for feedback from other stepmom's who might have been in situations similar to mine, and to garner advice or input from their experiences. What's in it for you here on this forum?

If I was a biological mother with no stepfamily experience and my child was being introduced into a stepfamily situation, I would definitely utilize this forum as a tool to help me understand or at least grasp what stepmothers may or may not be thinking, feeling, etc.

I have to admit that I've explored a few sites on the internet geared towards noncustodial mothers in an attempt to understand my stepdaughters' mother. There were a few posts that I really wanted to reply to but decided not too... I gained a bit of insight but I was more irritated and upset by their attitudes than anything else.

I actually agree wiht imamommy on this. in many occassions the guy is wiht someone else because his first wife or GF got rid of him in a timely manner. hahah

lonepiper,
Good point on using this sight to gain understanding. And that's not a bad idea. However, it doesn't appear that that's the reason here. I think some here who aren't stepparents have a different agenda. They like to post simply to be contrary, or to start a debate. It's nearly ALWAYS anti-step (in addition to anti-husband and/or anti-man). So it seems that while your idea is a good reason, the non-steps here aren't quite that curious to want to gain knowledge. More just here to be pot-stirrers. IMHO.

It's one thing to come to a forum like this to gain understanding of what others might be like. It's another thing to ignore all the good/positive things and only focus on the negative aspects. It's also unfair to generalize and group people into a category and brand them. A forum is a good avenue to gain insight, but it does NOT represent every situation or group of people.

There are forums like lonepiper says, that are mostly people with bad attitudes. There are forums that are mostly people that don't like their stepkids. Groups of a feather, flock together. This forum is probably one of the better ones because there are different roles being represented but, the flock does not support 'evil' stepmothers here so those that hate their steps usually leave or don't post. For that reason, it's hard to understand why someone that thinks all SM's are evil comes here to post. It would make more sense to post on a forum that hates their steps... but I guess those sites already have enough drama.