Why do you even care? Which my guess is your DH's real answer. Why dont you just say thanks and move along? Are you trying to assess whether SD wants to be a friend with you? I didnt get that feeling from earlier posts of yours?

My guess, just a guess, if your SD had a chance to post comments we would see some interesting ones too.

Well now that is just an insult kkny:D No trouble figuring that one out. I like your forthrightness.

Colleen,

When I first moved into the house I live in now, which I think is a very nice house (3 bedrooms/2.5 baths, plus suite on lower level) my next door neighbor said she was glad I didnt buy it as a knock down (some parts of the country they call this a tear down). Which is basically saying your house is so small or so crummy, some peopel would knock it down.

Did I let that bother me? No. I thought it was quirky to say that, but it doesnt stop be from being friends with this woman or doing things with her. Would I have said it to anyone? No.

This reminds me of my DH. He will give what he fully believes is a compliment only to add a backhanded comment to the end, ruining the compliment.

We first met at work. I was year-round. He was seasonal. Well, the first season he worked, I had just gotten a horrible, ugly, butch of a haircut...really bad. By the next season when he came back, my hair had grown out and was much nicer.

His comment was..."Wow, your hair looks nice. You really got cute since I've been gone."

I still tease him about that comment to this day. He doesn't even remember saying it, he just remembers thinking I looked nice, but I vividly remember not knowing whether to say "Thank you" or "F--- you!!"

I know that over the years he's made similar types of "compliments", both to me and others, but he honestly isn't trying to be backhanded and mean. He just really doesn't think things out sometimes and doesn't even realize what he just said was kind of odd until I point it out to him.

Maybe your SD's the same way...I know mine is. I just listen to the part of the compliment that was appropriate, say "Thank you", and forget about the rest. These kind of social graces are hard for some people to grasp, but that doesn't necessarily denote that they're trying to give insults disguised as compliments.

Yes, those comments were blatant insults, & hubs doesn't want to acknowledge it.

People often refuse to "get involved", even when they know whatever's going on isn't right;
they'd rather let their nearest & dearest get tromped on than confront the problem.

so putting a stop to it is up to you, & passive-aggressive behavior isn't something that can be handled by airing your grievance.

The perpetrator will just look at you with wide eyes & proclaim, "I don't know what you're talking about! I was giving you a *compliment*. Why are you so angry with me? I didn't *do* anything!"

Maybe in future you can smile broadly & gush, "Oh, thank you! I just *knew* you'd say something like that!", give her a big ole hug...

Tell hubs beforehand that when this happens, you want him to watch her, not you;
might not do any good, though;
people don't see what they don't want to see.

& you might just sit hubs down for an Everybody Loves Raymond marathon;
the character of the mother/mother-in-law is a master of passive aggressive insult.

Every time she zings her daughter-in-law & her son stands there with his mouth agape or babbles to his wife about what his mother "really meant", poke him in the ribs & tell him he reminds you of Raymond.

(I don't think that show is "funny" at all, but I sometimes watch it, don't know why, maybe so I can remember to be grateful I don't live in a similar pressure cooker.)

kkny, I don't know if your neighbor's comment was an insult;

here in the Dallas area, it would have been an expression of gratitude.

In some areas of Dallas, many fine old homes, the kind with history & character & sometimes charm, are being lost to people who knock them down to build McMansions, ruining the character of whole neighborhoods.

Neighborhoods that have rocked along gently for fifty years are organizing & protesting demolition & building permits.

Had you moved into one of those neighborhoods, the neighbors would have brought you tea & scones (or maybe Margaritas & fajitas) & helped you set up your furniture!

Sylvia, It is a fine home to me, but a 70s era ranch (which is new where I live). No one is putting it on the historical preservation list. But did I fret or seeth at what was said, no. It takes two to have a feud.

oh my's comment about her husband reminded me that there *are* people, such as those who have Asperger's (sp?) Syndrome, who cannot "get" normal social interaction.

They say whatever is in their minds & really don't grasp why people get their feelings hurt.

People who have such disorders *are the same way with everybody*.

If this girl says similar things to everyone else, maybe she has a disorder.

If you're the only one to whom she says these things, then, like the wife on "Raymond", you're the target.

I agree with oh_my. If you get along with her, why worry about it? If you are looking for a reason to find fault, you will. My DH does the same thing, he doesn't think of how some things can be interpreted either.

I think it's funny that kkny responded to this post. She should know a dig when she see's one....lmao (of course, she'd never admit it) But I have to admit that what she said in her last post is what I would say, that if you get along, don't worry about it. (even though tos thinks it is wrong to pretend or be false, I'm in favor of keeping the peace.)

LMFAO I am going to try the hug next time.

I would have to chime in and say all insults. Beat her at her own game when she gives you these sly compliments/insults gush it up and play stupid like you really think shes giving you wonderfull compliments.
EX. When she said "Gift
SD: Thank you so much!! We used to have one of these but it ended up at Joe's with the rest of the junk in his garage. ME: insult DH: compliment

I would of said I'm so happy that I thought of buying you this. I knew you'd love it!!And just think after loosing something as great as this that you liked when you moved. I'm so excited to be able to replace it for you! Pat your self on the back.

If you worry about keeping score, you've already lost. If you say thanks and move on with your life, life is great.

Why is it, Cawfe, some people only think it it the first wife who should move on?

OP, how old is SD? Does she maybe not know how to word compliments? I cant say for sure if these are insults or not because im not sure of the context or the tone.

I would look at those comments as insults. My DH is not mentally capable of seeing any wrong that his children do. Even if he had to admit they were wrong, it would be somebody elses fault.
It's funny, he'll comment on things that other parents should do, & I'm totally dumbfounded that his kids did the same thing & he had the same response as the parents he critisizes(sp).
Colleen, do yourself a favor....don't care so much what the little poptart says. Stay strong in your marraige, have confidence in how well you take care of yourself & your home, & realize what your up against. It sounds to me through these posts that you're a great mom.

Hi everyone... thank you for your responses.
She is 28 years old.

How funny. She is old enough to know exactly what shes doing too. Oh well. I would shrug it off. She doesn't live with you I assume so it's not like the "compliments" must be endured all the time:)

In DH's defense, It is soooo hard for daddies to find fault in their little girls. My dad has YET to find any fault in me and believe me....It's there in grand amounts:)

Oh definite insults..lol..28 ...she knows exactly what she is saying. Just throw it back in her face colleen! Did the same a few times with my SD and she got the picture. And she's hit her teens. I told her , if you dish it out , expect to get it back! and if you can't eat it! then think twice before serving it yourself!
My DH is also like this. Its daddy's little girl and he tends to look over things alot. Even when they are blatantly in his face. Well hallalooyah!!! yesterday he saw the light. I was washing dishes, and he turned to me and said. ' you know, G has turned really cruel in the last year or so. She never use to be like that. She gets a rise out of getting people in trouble. I see that smile across her face. I'm so disappointed in her.' and then he added ' As long as she is heading down that road, i do not want her around. I love her. BUt not the way she is. ' I responded...its not your fault. You haven't raised her. Her mother has. To top it off...its also not your exwifes 100% fault either. She's 13...she's involving herself with school friends and probably learning bad behaviour....i just hope your ex calls if it gets out of hand at her house. She did swear at her last month andwe stillhaven't figured out why.

Colleen, I have to say I agree with everyone that all of the above ---if not actually meant to be insulting--- could easily be taken that way by the average, lucid person familiar enough with the English language and what a "back-hand compliment" is. And, sadly, in these situations where pretty much everyone feels stuck and powerless and like they risk too much pain and loss by speaking directly, these kinds of more passive-aggressive "digs" are par-for-the-course. And whichever side you're on, it seems like the DH never knows what's going on. But we all know it does. And it stinks, whether you're being a bratty SK or a shrewish SM or whatver. It's a behavior that's usually used and recognized more by women, b/c men generally have more power in this world; thus they feel like they have no need to "couch" their words, and they usually suffer very few consequences for saying what they mean. Thus they may be at least partly unfamiliar with the whole concept...

I've lived with these kind of digs from my SM for so many years, about so many subjects, ranging from my body, to my boyfriends, to my schooling, to my cooking (she doesn't like that I cook when I visit, thinks it's threatening or some kind of personal insult to her, even though she doesn't cook herself), to even my mother's "big Jewish nose", and so many other things. And I was always biting my tongue, scared to death of speaking up about it b/c my visits to my dad were so relatively brief and far-between, and I didn't want to risk ruining them, or risk that horrible feeling of invalidation, all-day listening to "what's wrong with you"/"you're too sensitive", or overhearing SM tell my dad that I "never cared about him" as a last-resort way of intimidating me if I dared to stand up for myself. (It was also complicated by the fact that my dad has always had a very dramatic personality and at times a horrible temper... I've already mentioned that he admitted to slapping my mother when they were married. He never once touched me, but I guess the fear was inside me somewhere that he would if I upset him too much.)

Anyway, for so many years I just took all her digs, not thinking I had any other options, or scared to use the options other people would have used. And what's happened to me now is that I've finally grown a backbone, and when my dad kept asking me recently what "my problem" was with SM, and I finally let him convince me to tell him, he refuses to really believe it. (I think, deep down, he knows, b/c he's been a victim of her mouth as well... I've seen it many times, unmistakable jabs, even at things like his being short... low, low blows.) Sadly, between all the years I said nothing, and his current physical dependence on her and psychological dependence on the idea that she's fantastic, it's probably too late for me to be heard. I admit I ask myself what he asks me: "why didn't you speak up sooner?" Maybe it could have been resolved, maybe there would have been time to talk it all out... Instead, misunderstanding has piled on top of misunderstanding, tit on top of tat, twisted words on top of twisted words... It's too late for my situation, but it doesn't have to be for everybody's.

I wish I had done a lot earlier what Organicmaria suggests, which is to simply dish it back out. Not cruelly, not to escalate the conflict but the opposite: to make your point clearly and concisely for the purpose of nipping the passive-aggressiveness in the bud so that whatever the real "issue" is can be talked about openly. Or, if dishing it back feels a little too snide (as in "2 wrongs don't make a right"), then maybe you can be even more cutting-through-the-crap and try asking her straight-up: "what do you mean, I'm not sure I understood?" or "When you say 'TRYING to do with your hair', do you mean this hairdo *IS* working, or ISN'T working? I'm interested in what you really think". Put the spotlight back on her to justify what she means, leaving no loose ends or slinking away from owning her words. If you ask in a tone that doesn't sound caustic or like you're already offended, but that you just didn't understand her doublspeak and can she clarify, it should get her to stop. That's definitely something I've learned: people who resort to that kind of passive-aggressive jab are doing so, in the first place, b/c they feel scared to some extent, and powerless. They don't feel like they CAN speak directly and honestly. She's not going to want the extra stress of the light shone back on her, having to account for what she REALLY means. She will hopefully learn to either speak openly or at least learn to pick her battles and stop being petty with words.

But I do have to add, Organicmaria, that I find it sad that your reaction to your DH "seeing the light" and saying his 13-year-old daughter is cruel, just like her mother, and he doesn't want her around was a simple "hallelujah!" Or, to be more precise, I should say that *I hope* that is not the be-all-end-all for you, or that you don't *stay* so ecstatic about it coming to that, without considering that a father and daughter's relationship being ripped apart is not something that should be celebrated. (I do admit to understanding, though, a *brief, temporary* feeling of relief that at least you're not the only one able to observe snide behavior.) Even with all I've been through with my SM, if my Dad divorced her or kicked her out of his life simply b/c she couldn't be polite to me, I'd feel guilty for being the cause of a separation between he and someone he loves, especially since I don't have to be around her very often and he lives with her all the time.

And, ultimately, I agree with all the posters who basically said: "Yeah, maybe she was insulting you, but you need to stop dwelling on it or looking for it." This kind of thing can be an obvious enough problem without you having to go looking for it. I hope you can talk about it with her so that it doesn't continue to be the dynamic between you two. If it isn't addressed and talked out mutually and honestly, then with the passage of years, it just gets worse.

Colleen...at 28 she's knows what she is saying ....

So when she is saying something you know will lead to a backhanded compliment stop her midsentence.... Stop before you insult me or that was nice until you said ... call her on it. Don't say it with an attitude just giggle or something and say stop right there ... before I get offended let her know how you feel... I also like what Sylvia said .... I knew you would say that or I knew you would like it.

KKNY what I get from Colleens post its not really what the SD says that bothers her its that hubby doesn't see it that what the SD says bothers her....

She would be able to move on easily if hubby would just say yup SD's an a$$ she shouldn't be insulting you .... instead of invalidating his wife's feelings.

Cawfe: I like your suggestions about saying: "That was a nice compliment until you said..." or "Before I get offended..." (either with a humorous giggle or not, depending on situation).

And I agree with you that what's really eating at Colleen (or any of us that have ever been in that position) is the feeling of invalidation, gaslighting, whatever you want to call it when you feel like ONLY YOU are seeing through it and NO ONE ELSE is. I've experienced that so much, so I know how that stings, and like I responded to Organicmaria, the RELIEF you feel when a third party finally sees the behavior can be intense.

But I wonder if it's necessary that the DH in these situations has to wind up insulting/rejecting the SD (or the SM, as in my case) in order to make the other party feel better. (For example: "Yup, SD's an ass" or "SD has turned really cruel... I'm so disappointed in her... I don't want her around.") I don't know that this should be necessary, either to resolve the problems (which it certainly won't) or even to make the complaining party feel better.

Think about it this way: if the tables were turned and suddenly your SD started to perceive jabs in things you say (whether they're there or not), and felt she needed validation from her father to resolve or cope with the situation, would you like the idea of him telling her: "Yup, SM's an ass" or "She really has turned cruel, hasn't she? I'm so disappointed in her... I don't want her around if she's going to be like that."

When seen in this light, it seems like there are better responses on DH's part (if he even has to be involved at all; presuming that between SM & SD they can't call each other on their jabs, talk things out on their own). He could say:

-"Well, maybe you're right, maybe those are insults. But maybe they're not. Only way to know is to ask her."

-"Well, maybe you're right, maybe those are insults. If so, I wonder what the issue is. Maybe you should ask her directly if there's something bothering her."

-"Well, maybe you're right, maybe those are insults. I wonder what the issue is. Maybe it's something actually simple to resolve. If it involves me, I'll be glad to sit with you both and have a group discussion about it."

-"Well, maybe you're right, maybe those are insults. I wonder what the issue is. Maybe it's something that's very difficult, maybe SD (or SM) doesn't fully understand it herself. After all, these 'blended family' situations can be very complicated. Why don't we all have an honest conversation about how we're all adjusting to it, and what some of the difficulties are. Maybe then we'll get to the heart of the matter."

-"Well, maybe you're right, maybe those are insults. I know her mother could be sacastic like that, and I REALLY didn't like it. In fact, it's one of the reasons our marriage ended. But I don't want to make my daughter 'pay for the sins of her mother', or lump the two together in my mind, because they're individuals. She probably did pick up that sarcastic tongue from her mom, but divorce from my daughter is not an option. This time around I have to dig deeper into the root of the issue. Maybe I can have a heart-to-heart with her and try to find out what's bothering her."

-"Well, maybe you're right, maybe those are insults. She's BEING an ass WHEN SHE BEHAVES THAT WAY. But she isn't an awful person. I agree that particular behavior stinks and is unproductive, but I know people tend to do that when they feel there's no other way to be heard. Let's see if we all can't put our heads together and come up with a more honest and productive way of dealing with conflict."

-"Well, maybe you're right, maybe those are insults. What can I say? My wife has a caustic mouth sometimes. Everyone has their faults, and this is hers. And besides, not everyone is perfectly nice to everyone at all times. As for me, I just let it roll off my back b/c I don't have a magic wand to change her. But I am TRULY sorry you have to deal with it when you're around her. You're gracious and big-hearted to do so and I know you do because you love me and accept/respect that she's part of my life."

That last one is pretty much verbatim what my dad told me in reference to my SM, except for the last two sentences, which would have been very nice if he'd added. No, it's not a perfect situation, but in hindsight, it's pretty much all HE can say or do to remedy the situation. The rest is really up to the SM & SD, because it's true, no one can "make somebody" else change their behavior if that person doesn't want to themselves.

Unfortunately, I've had to come to the conclusion that there's not much the DH can do about the passive-aggressive jab situation. If my Dad were to have become enraged on my behalf and teared my SM a new one telling her to stop insulting me like that, she simply would have limited it to when he wasn't around, and he would have got some sort of earful from her, and/or she would make him "pay" somehow. He would be "damned if he validates/damned if he invalidates". There are certainly ways he can try to prevent the passive-aggressive behavior and/or engineer situations where there's no motivation to indulge in it, i.e. to be very crystal-clear and firm that he won't be manipulated by anyone to change certain plans, agreements, etc., as well as not punishing/ridiculing anyone for raising concerns/feelings honestly. But that has to come first, has to be more of a healthy, proactive "background" situation. The kind that tends to preclude passive-aggressive jab-hurling tactics in the first place. By the time it gets to the passive-aggressive jabs (which are generally a "last-resort" tactic), ***HE'S*** not going to be able to "fix it" all by himself. Not without being in the permanent MIDDLE, where no man on earth wants to be b/c they hate this kind of thing. No wonder so many of them slink away from the hot seat by letting the women fight.

Serenity, you truly deserve your screen name. I think that the passive aggressive behaivor can start when someone doesnt think he/she is being treated fairly, but doesnt have power to change it. As Sylvia noted, in retrospect, that feeling of being powerless to change situation can be held by either SM or stepchild.

they are all insults, obviously. but oh well what can you do about it. just pretend you didn't notice...

There's one more point I want to make about the "is it or isn't it an insult?" type of comments that could, theoretically, go either way. Once you mention the back-hand jabs as a problem, and lay it out there on the table as an issue, you run the risk of having *everything* that *everyone* says run over with a fine-toothed comb and *searched* for snide meaning. In other words, the hyper-vigilance to it ---all around, on everyone's part--- can go too far. It all depends on your intention and goal when you raise the issue. Unless you make a real point, to yourself, to DH and to SD, that you are raising the issue in the interest of probing beyond it to find out what the real issues are and resolve them openly & honestly, it will quickly turn into a tit-for-tat game and a constantly hyper-vigilant, hyper-sensitive atmosphere.

I've been on both sides of this. As I said before, my SM is the queen of this back-hand insulting jab thing. And a few times, I admit, I've been tempted to resort to it myself with her. Again, because I have felt so powerless to say *anything* is even remotely an issue (b/c the invalidation and banishment was so hard the very few times I ever dared to speak up about anything) and out of hurt & anger in being so unable to speak up freely. It's stinky behavior, regardless. The few times I've done it I've known exactly what I was doing (and I know she did too) and I felt momentarily satisfied, but in the long-run I just felt a sense of sliminess and dread at how she would retaliate... It's a no-win game. But the worst part is when you start getting your words twisted around and recited back to you, with new nasty meanings read into things you REALLY, TRULY didn't mean to be insults. This happens when the person now feels like THEY, TOO can complain and put YOU in the position of looking like the mean double-speaker. The end result is that now NOBODY feels comfortable saying anything, for fear of how the worst possible meaning will be read into it. This is why it's so important to have the right goals & intentions before you make an issue out of anything... it isn't JUST to be a mature cooperative person, it's also to protect yourself from someone who may not be ready to quit playing games, who, in fact, may get the idea of escalating the game. Unless the underlying issue is resolved which has one or more parties feeling like they have to resort to these games, the game will go on... whether you say something to DH or not and whether he does/says anything about it or not. The game will last, basically, as long as the real underlying issue lasts. The only way, in that case, to be the bigger person (as well as cover your ass) is to learn how to call her out on her words in a way that simultaneously:

-is nice (hence you don't come off like a prickly princess looking for a fight)
-gives her the option of telling you what her issue is in a straightforward way (that means no guilt trips, power trips, punishments, banishments, shaming or invalidating when/if she ever dares to speak honestly about her feelings)
-responds to her feelings/needs/issues with some offer of either a compromise, if possible, or just empathy/understanding her plight if compromise isn't possible
-keeps gently but assertively questioning the precise meaning of the words in her jab until they're clear
-ultimately makes the back-hand jab no fun for her because she'll realize that each time she does it she has to go thru this whole process of explaining what she meant, which she will not be able to do very well if it's an insult
-hence it will be embarassing to her if it's an insult she meant, and frustrating that she can't "win" at that game, and she will have to quit it. But hopefully she'll learn that honest communication is better becasue she has nothing to fear from it

The thing is, though, that if it turns out to be NOT a jab, and with time if you see that the jabs are stopping, then it's only fair that you ease up on the calling-her-out and questioning-her-every-word tactics. The hyper-vigilance should only last as long as it takes to get the truth to come out, safely, with no punishments or retaliation attached to it, and the issue finally resolved. The way I see it, this is the only way to keep it from escalating (or going even more "under the radar", as the case may be). If YOU become a model of honest, open communication and do your part (you can't do all of it youself) to make it clear that she has no reason to have to resort to low tactics, the situation should improve. That said, DH and SD need to do the same. If everyone's not ready to give up the game (including if the DH likes the game b/c it's less confrontation), it will go on (which is why this kind of dynamic is so rampant), but it can at least be made LESS BAD if any one person adjusts their reactions and has the right intentions.

I have to tell you sylvia your method worked wonderfully well. stepdaughter was visiting and I was playing on the floor with her little kid, and we were having a blast, in comes stepdaughter and says, I love you play with her like that, you are just like our dog.

Message received, a few minutes later I got up and gave her a great big hug and said thank you so much. I know how much you love your dog.

Her expression of disgust was priceless and no more backhanded compliments that day.

Thanks Sylvia...

"I love you play with her like that, you are just like our dog"

Wow...she actually SAID that to you?????

Colleen -- you have far more patience and a thicker skin than I ever could have, I applaud you.

All I have to say is "WOW!!!"

I know I suggested before that maybe she doesn't realize what she's doing, but that is just a blatantly obvious jab at you...the nerve!!!

I would have been tempted to bite her...just like a dog.

Personally, I think I would have lifted my leg just like the dear pup and repayed the compliment on her shoe.

Wow. That is some nerve. You handled yourself very well Colleen - I am quite impressed.

That's GRACE!!! Awesome.

Colleen, I'm glad that worked. I hope that nips it in the bud. If it doesn't nip it in the bud, or if she didn't fully "get it", I thought of another way you could repsond to a comment like that... which is to just repeat it back to her ---really LOUDLY, so everyone within earshot hears it--- with a kind of shocked-but-good-humored laugh. Kind of like "oooh, girl, no you DIDN'T just compare me to your dog! HA HA!" and maybe even add "let's hope I'm house-trained, though, 'cuz your shoe's looking pretty tempting! Ha ha!" (And, like JNM said, actually lift your leg.)

It would be like saying to her: "I'm laughing at your jab because I'm a good-natured, good-humored person. And also because you're so obvious it's laughable. But make no mistake: it's very clear what you meant, and I will repeat it out loud so anyone in this room will know what you said, and I will laugh laugh laugh at the ridiculousness of it. Now: we can either BOTH laugh at how ridiculous these mean-spirited tactics can be and stop it altogether, or we can just keep playing and I can keep beating you at your own game until you're ready to give it up tell me what your issue is like a grown-up person."

Bwaaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaaa Haaaa!

Priceless,Colleen!

Was anyone else in the room? Anyone with a camera? Ima knows how to download photos...

What a SKEELA! means female dog in greek...lol! Your adult SD has a lot of nerve saying that while you play with HER daughter. Keep it up!
Everytime she insults you just throw a curve ball at her!
This is in not a SD, SM issue any longer. Its called respect among two ADULT woman.! She';s a piece of work!
Well done Colleen!