No eleven year old NEEDS a cell phone to begin with. If the mother gave it to him - he can use it when he is in her care. He and she are using it as an out for him when he misbehaves. When kids are sent to bed that means they are not on the phone - be it house or cell. Bed time is bed time - not phone time. I would take the phone away from him when he is at your house period. It is undermining your parenting and authority.
Homework is not a negotiable thing - it is a required. I have no idea where kids get the idea it is an option as to whether they do it or not. I had the same problem with one of my step sons. It was a huge fight every night with my husband and him. I had to take over. I got him started with the first problem - made sure he was capable of doing the work. Then I said here you go - you do it while I am cooking. If you need help let me know - but I am not going to do every problem with you. Then I would check it over when he was done. The dynamics my husband had were not working - doing every one with him. Then there are consequences for poor grades at the end of the semester. And make them stick. Take away privileges - get them where they live, as the counselor said. Take away something that means something to the child. If they can bring the grades up by the next progress report - they get it back. It is making him responsible for his work. School is his job and he has to do it. Not if he feels like it. It is like wiping his butt - people just do it.

1st thing...you CAN take his cell phone. We took my SS's because it was causing problems. The mother told us we could not take it...well of course we can and we DID. He got it back when he went home. We told him to never bring it again....he did the next weekend. My husband found it (his mother told him to hide it). Remember - the house is your house, his room is your room. My husband searched until he found it, took it again. Sounds like you should just take it and not let him have it at all. When he goes to his mom - then give it to him. She can't tell you what to do in your own home!!

As far as his rebellious behavior....I believe you have two choices: take him to a therapist or send him to his moms. He is controlling you guys - obviously - take control! Take EVERYTHING from him! A know these days people say you should not spank (I am a firm believer of spanking) he is not too old. But of course that is what ever you believe...it is not abuse. Good luck - keep trying - there has to be something to get his attention - if not it just gets worse. Sounds like the BM is the biggest problem and there is nothing you can do about that!

He is in therapy .. I am not allowed to speak to the therapist about his behavior. I cannot make any "medical decisions" although I am responsible for routine and emergency doctors appts .. BM always has to work she makes the appts and during the day ... when "she has to work" so I have to take them dad also has to work ... My all time favorite is ... she'll call at 7:10 am says one of them is too sick for school and drops them off with me at 7:20 am calls the dr. makes an appt and I am responsible for taking them to the dr. for "tummy aches" we have full custody pay for insurance and all the co-pays and presriptions co-pays... so she makes appts always when she has to work. Well she did take the 9 yr to one appt .. he was given the flu shot got the flu he stayed home for a week with me "she had to work" tells the kids I can't make any decisions for them but the minute her "parenting time" is up she is dropping them off with me. the wicked step mother ... always late picking them anywhere from 1 -3 hours but right on time to drop them off she has been told I am not the babysitter make your own child care arrangements. She has thurs. off you think she is here early in the morning to get them ? NO her court order says 3 pm shows up at 5 drops them off at 8 am court orders says 3 pm to 3pm but she has to work.

I am in the middle of Divore Poison and I'm not Julia Roberts... I have learned to ignore the ex. but the kids I cannot ... I wouldn't let a stranger talk to me the way these kids try to I'll be damned if I let them get away with it.

as far as sending him to mom's ... she doesn't stay at her apartment when the kids aren't there she is at the BF's and we don't know where that is or he would have been dropped off there last night I wanted to call the police but hubby wouldn't let me... sad part is when they are at mom's they are calling here wanting to come home because "she is mean to them" ...

Next week they are on vacation from school told hubby this morning ... if he behaves like that again I will pack up the two younger ones and leave him home alone... I will call his mother and tell her to come and get him ... I will not be forced to take blood pressure or any other kind of medication because he refuses to behave. Its not behave shouldn't say that ... he refuses to take responsiblity for his actions doesn't feel he should be punished for anything he does. He is always right and everyone else is wrong.

Father either needs to be present at a therapy meeting or give you the right to speak with the counselor about behavior... How can therapy help when the therapist doesn't know the issues? Hey Jenny Alabama I am with you all the way on the spanking issue.... Oh gosh sure I'll catch heck over that... But it is FACT look at the way kids today act in comparison to how they acted back in our parents day.. :) Spanking mind you is not to be confused with beating... a spanking consists of one-two swats on the bottom just hard enough to get their attention. This sometimes is the ONLY way to wake a child from a tantrum. And legally your rights are protected there as long as you do not hit them hard enough to leave marks... which if you do you have beat your child not spanked them... I was spanked as a child and desrved every one I got and am thankful my Mother didn't fall into that whole "reason with the child" BS they shovel now days. Show me a 2 yr old you can reason with.... :) and I'll show you a child that has had a good swat on the butt in the privacy of their home. I am consistantly amazed at the numbers of parents who do not correct their children for fear of having them taken away... I'll tell it like my mom told me.. "Go ahead make that call, I will pack your things for you." Once the threat is taken away you would be amazed at how cooperative a child can be... :) Granted spanking is always a last resort in my home and normally I don't have to use it... it is just the fact that my children know I will if I have to.

The 11 yr "threatens to call the police" all the time. I laugh beause he will be the one they take away not me nor his father. He wants to live in a foster home he would have more freedom. No clue where he gets that one from. I am at my wits end with the hours of him being relentous..

Oh and mom just called she can't take them today ... so here we go again ... he will be home in 15 minutes. Now we have to deal with the meltdown because mom can't pick them up today. I did take every non-essential to his well being out of his room. (smiles) tv, xbox, gamecube. all gone ... thats another meltdown waiting to happen. Going to be a fun vacation ... when we punish him ... its more of a punishment on us (sad). The younger ones suffer because of his bad behavior but I reinforce their good behavior by giving them extras he is not entitled to. If the only one who gets attention is negative they will behave badly too.

I found a crisis center that serves our area today ... I will be calling them next time he pulls one of these fits.

Start documenting the actual visitation schedule that is being held. Start documenting the time you are taking care of the children when she is supposed to be. Get a record of the drs. visits that you have had to do instead of her during her time. You need a record so that you can go to the friend of the court in front of the magistrate and get the visitation schedule changed. There really isn't anyway you can force her to take the child more and be responsible. But you can take steps to reduce her visitation and that should get her momma back up. She may then fight it and do her parenting time like she should. Or you will get the message loud and clear that she really doesn't want to see the child and then there you are - in charge whether you like it or not. But at least it is official.
Your husband should be allowed to talk to the therapist. He should be in on everything that is going on with his son. If he is and isn't sharing with you - you could ask him about that. Being in the responsibility position with no authority is wrong and doesn't work at all. I know that!
Practice saying the word no. Tell her no when she calls - you have other plans. Or get caller ID and don't answer the phone. If it is an emergency she will leave a message. Then you can decide if it is an emergency you want to help with or not.

sandstone...at least the first response I had on spanking was a positive one!! I do not have to usually resort to spanking either...and I believe that is because I started when my daughter was pulling up and grabbing from the cofee table..you know...the popping on the hand. The last time my daughter got a spanking was probably when she was 8 or 9 - she is 12 now.

cawfecup - none of this is going to stop until you tell BM to mind her on business and tell her you will not tolerate her "using" you at all times! Also - not until you tell your husband you are DONE. You will not be subject to abuse while he and the ex get to do there daily activities - whether it be work or not! You are completely being held responsible for this kid....no way would I do this. When you put your foot down, you may see some changes...not fair to the other kids. Shed the responsibility - it will get worse....

Just sounds to me like this kid has major seperation anxiety from his mother. Question,WHY CANT he live with his mom if he wants to so badly?
It's good he is already in therapy. Any diagnoses? Also,totally agreed with the poster SANDSTONE who says sometimes a good old fashioned spanking may be what he needs. Spanking is not illegal or considered child abuse. Only if you leave bruises or marks is it then considered abuse.
I Also have spanked my 9 year old daughter maybe twice the whole time she's been alive,because just the mention of one and i dont have to. Normally a hard look or stern tone says enough. But if this boy knows you cant do that,as you say he keeps saying,then he obviously isnt effected by a hard look or tone of voice.
If you are completely against spanking,then find some other way to give him a consequence. Take away his favorite toy. Dont let him play with friends.Figure something out will get him to see you mean business.
Good luck,sounds like you have your hands full!

Sarahl- We have documented every p/u and d/o time for over a year and a half every conversation with BM is documented. I keep a log. We go to court with her just about every 4 months she wants a reduction in child support (if you file a contempt order for non-payment she doesn't have to pay until you get to court again) claims she wants more time with them but doesn't just wants support reduced 3 times in the last year it has gone up even though she never paid... First cs payment was Jan. 15th "if she has to pay support she can't afford to take them" so now its less and less time she spends with them she tells them the judge said blah blah blah... when I told the therapist what BM was saying to the kids BM took us back to court and had it ordered that I cannot make any medical decisions only BM and dad.

I send a calendar back and forth with the kids for her to write p/u and drop off times on because she was telling the kids what times and they would forget or get dropped off from the bus on the wrong days and I would have to go searching for them. Now we have a calendar and any changes require a 24 hr notice.

Jenny- I have told her repeatedly I am not her babysitter and to make her own child care arrangements.

As far as spanking don't know if i could stop myself with a swat or two. I know it sounds horrible so that is not an option... with my own kids I can say go to your room and they would move, I could do the "look" and they knew to move.

Question,WHY CANT he live with his mom if he wants to so badly? Because she can't handle them. They call every night from her house wanting to come home we have gone several times to pick up one or more for being "out of control" She will give them anything they want so they will behave no structure with her no rules at her house.

They visit with her 2 days a week and atleast once a week she leaves them with a babysitter "she needs a life".

Changing BM is not an option she will continue to be who she is. I know someday the kids will realize this but that's along way away.

She did show up for them yesterday. An hour late and the 11 yo was calling at 8:30 wanting to come home BM was being mean to him. He couldn't sleep and she was making him go to bed.

Punishing him is more of a punishment for us ... he will repeatedly ask the same questions over and over or attack his younger siblings as my first post indicated he will carry on for hours ... Hubby will be talking to him again today he is getting out of work early today so he can be here when he gets home from school so I don't have to break the bad news to him again.

Dear Cawfecup,
It sounds like the biggest problem with this kid is he doesn't understand NO means NO. Sounds like that is the momma's problem too, for that matter. If you want them to get it, you have to SHOW (not tell) them that. Some how you need to get across to both of them you mean business. That kid will be so much happier when he finally gets that you and your husband are in charge.
I would tell that kid, no we are not being mean, we're in charge.
Have you given him the ultimatum to leave? You could say if you don't like the rules here, you don't like the rules at mom's - you just called that she was mean last night, maybe you need to find somewhere you DO want to live. Here is your suitcase - go find it! He would be dumbfounded wouldn't he. You and your husband can stand on the porch together and wave to him and wish him the best of luck. I wouldn't do it at night, he would howl and wake the neighbors. This kid needs his bluff called and find out that you won't play his games.
You also need to do the same with the mom. Don't give in when she calls. Don't listen to him when he calls you from there. Just say your mom is in charge. Bye. If all of you remind him he isn't in charge every time he bucks the authority, he will have to get it. No budging.
Don't let the mom bring him back either if you can avoid it. Don't go pick the kids up and rescue her or the kids. Make her do it. Make them stay and do what she says. Too many people are giving in. And you are so pissed and resentful and sick of giving, you can't see a way out of the mess.
Can you do chores punishments rather than having to try to contain him in his room or something? Even if it is a chore he likes doing would be good. Make him wash the car, sweep the driveway, haul wood, whatever. Physical exercise would be good for him and you'd get something done. He needs to get tired. Does the therapist suggest keeping his sugar intake low too? I would definitely see if that would help.
I understand about you not wanting to start a spanking because you don't know if you could stop. I have been there with that feeling. You are at the end of your rope.
Your husband could help by getting the kid to help him do things around the house with him. The kid does need to feel proud of himself sometimes - even if it is a little thing. He needs to know what that feels like and want it.
I know that is a really hard thing to do when you feel so much anger and resentment toward him, but try. It will help. He does need some positive attention. I can just hear you - there isn't anything the kid does to deserve it. You may have to look hard for it. Maybe your husband would be better at it.
Do you have the rules and consequences posted at your house? That helps alot. There can't be an argument if it is there in plain sight 24/7. He knows - no discussion. Puts the responsibility for the consequence (punishment) he is receiving in his hands. You could even ask him, Why did you do that when you knew what the consequence was?????? I don't get why you wanted to lose your tv privilege or whatever. Just look at him with your eyes wide, shaking you head in bewilderment. Then he will argue with you no I didn't want that. Well you must have - there it is in black and white. Sucks to be him. (And you aren't the mean stepmom.) You gotta make him get that - bottom line. Try to stay calm and don't cave stepmom. The calmer you are, the less he can push your buttons and make you feel like a crazy woman. You need your husband behind you 100% to pull this off. Talk it over with him and make sure you are on the same page. Make sure he trusts you too. Then it will work. It did with 3 of my kids - the 4th was a different story because of his dad, my husband. But 3 out of 4 isn't bad. I am damned proud of it. Good Luck

How can BioMom expect you to take the kids to the Dr. if you're not allowed to make any medical decisions? I'd get a signed paper from BioMom either allowing you to make medical decisions or flat-out refuse to take them to the Dr. again. Seriously. Or, have your husband authorize you as his agent for medical decisions - He can. If he won't, then HE can take off work to take his kids to the doctor.

Talking to the son's therapist is important. BioMom does have the right to insist the therapist not tell YOU anything about her kid (medical privacy) -- But she does NOT have the right to prevent you from giving information to the therapist. Tell the therapist what he needs to hear - in writing.

On the cell phone - What I have told mine is that if the cell phone causes problems, the cell phone goes into time out. Natural consequences -- I'm assuming you have some sort of lock box somewhere in the house? If not, get an inexpensive one from the office supply store and use it. That phone is a symbolic lifeline to his mother, so I'm guessing only a few lockups will be needed to lick that particular problem.

Do you know WHY the son is doing the endless-question routine? With mine, it's an anxiety OCD-type thing, and telling him "You know the answer to that question -- You can ask it and I'll answer that question one more time, and then you can't ask it anymore" actually works wonders. Turning it around and asking him also works reasonably well. The other thing I say is "Is my answer going to change if you ask me again?" -- The trick of course, is to NEVER EVER EVER give in to relentless pleading, whining or threats, or else all you're teaching is that the kid has to beg harder to get whatever.

Cawfe - You're clearly the best mother this kid has, and he really needs you to hang in there with him. I'm sending 'patience vibes' your way and hoping they help...

So far so good this weekend ... he is taking and understanding his punishment.. "until you can behave like a part of a family you will not have any of your stuff back" his biggest gripe is he bought the gamecube with his money but we have explained that he uses our electricity and tv to play it ... he tried to start friday night but was shot down ... hubby supports everything I do 100 % and as we hand out punishments we explain we are not mean we are trying to make you a better adult things you learn as a child will help you as an adult blah blah blah... dad gave in with the cell phone that night to prove to him his BM would not come rescue him and when we didn't rescue him from his BM's house he might have gotten the message. He does know there is a progression to punishment and the more he continues the more gets taken away. Atleast thats what happens here at bm's thats a different story like I said we can't change her so we don't bother. When he came home friday we told him what the punishment was he started with the meltdown was asked "what did you think was going to happen after that episode the other night? Do you think that was acceptable behavior?" he was silent knew he was wrong.

BM called can't take the kids today ... she doesn't have any money to buy food ... hubby said no problem we will bring dinner for you and them when we drop them off she still said she didn't have any food he said "I'll send them with a care package" she hung up.

He did come home with the cell phone, told him to keep it in his room if I saw it I would take it away. He gets the rules just wants to see what he can get away with.

Dad had given me the right to speak to everyone but bm had a bird over it ... because I wouldn't hold back she would tell the kids to tell the therapist how mean and rotten I am. And I would tell the therapist yes I did do that .. example ...we keep books and whatnots on the stair runners ... the 11 yr old was tossing each item one by one off the runner... so I walked over and removed everything in fell swoop pushed it all on the floor so he couldn't anymore ... she told the therapist that I used intimidation to get him to cooperate...even though he didn't cooperate sat there for another 20 mins arguing before he was removed to his room. I told the therapist what I did and she laughed solved that problem. I have told the therapist I do remove them to their room. Go to your room on your own or I'll make you and punishment is more severe.. no tv etc. they are under the impression that I cannot even put my hands on them to remove them from the situation. BM tells them I can't discipline them. I have asked her to define discipline. I am not beating them or any extreme measures putting them in their room and taking stuff away doesn't qualify as abuse ... she had the 9 yr old convinced I abused him by putting him in his room ... with out tv or a night light.

If the kids have a bad day with me she will have them talk into a tape recorder about how mean and rotten I am. She thinks supporting their bad behavior here will help her win them over there ... doesn't happen they walk all over her and she lets them. But that is her problem for a bit they were being punished here for stuff they do at her house, but she wouldn't continue the punishment so it was useless. Told hubby not our problem if they don't behave for her we have a hard enough time getting them to behave here we don't need to be punishing them for their actions there, let her punish them there.

I think the anxiety and insomnia are related ... I took him to the drs. last summer (their reg. dr. was on vacation) the dr. prescribed benedryl for allergies and the insomnia .. BM called the reg. dr. flipping out his next appt the dr. unprescribed it. I still give it to him not everynight but the nights I feel will be an issue. When he was taking it daily he was more relaxed less stressed he was sleeping. I kept telling him your body needs the rest etc. you won't grow, thats why you are sick all the time all those lovely things.

They are/were very spoiled it has taken them a long time to realize they are not entitled to anything other than 3 meals a day and to be safe, everything else is conditional. Hubby spoils them too but I can keep him in check.

I have to stress at this point overall they are good kids just very spoiled and confused by BM. They have made remarkable progress in school and at home ... with bm a different story ... In the beginning they were out of control daily ... always in trouble at school and getting away with at home. We stress school is the most important thing in their lives right now everything else is second.

We have rules posted, consequences are different for each child so those are hard to post but we have figured out what punishment works for each child and they know it.

I know I am doing right by them ... If the school, therapist and family members all comment and how much better behaved they are now and they will say to the school don't call cawfe ... I'll get punished call my mom. The 11 yr old is the only one still getting in trouble at school (not doing homework on her nights) but thats because BM covers for him.

this has been great therapy for me
thanks for listening :)
cawfe

He was taking benedryl daily for insomnia???

"I took him to the drs. last summer (their reg. dr. was on vacation) the dr. prescribed benedryl for allergies and the insomnia .. BM called the reg. dr. flipping out his next appt the dr. unprescribed it. I still give it to him not everynight but the nights I feel will be an issue."

So even though the doctor "unprescribed" it, you are still giving it to the child? Without the mother's knowledge or consent, and against medical advice?

Are you aware that one of the side effects of this drug is irritability?

Well the dr. said its for the allergies but it will help with the insomnia... he is more irritable when he doesn't sleep. Don't make me defend giving him benedryl.. 25 mg children's dose 1 x per day... not drugging him up to get him to behave yes I still give it to him ... when his eyes are itchy and other allergy symptoms start up and he needs to sleep. We do not give them soda or have sugary foods in the house.
He is 11 and would be up till 2 am and up again at 5 am and he was miserable all day long fight with everyone because he was tired and he was sick. He still gets up at 5 am. And being up till 2am he would bother the other kids and keep the adults up too has walked out of the house at midnight because he wasn't tired. He has been like that since he was little. Dad said he was the same so has mom. its not "normal" for anyone to sleep only 3 hours a day ... people nap 3 hours a day. No one ever mentioned to the dr. about his sleeping habits.

The side effects from sleep deprivation outweigh the effects of giving him benedryl. It doesn't knock him out just lets him relax.

Did I mention that was the only appointment BM has taken the 11 yr old to the drs. in the last 4 years.

cawfecup, I think you are doing the right thing..benedryl can be dangerous, but the dosage you are giving him will definitely not hurt him. The doctors know what they are talking about. BM just got it changed because I am sure she did a "threat" that SHE is the mother, not you. Sounds like she just wants you guys miserable!! I would do what you think is right...because in all honesty - you are the mother here. Good luck

Just recently two parents were charged with first degree murder for giving their four year old a drug overdose, and the psychiatrist who prescribed some of the medications stopped practicing. I realize that your case is not as extreme, but it is not only unwise but wrong to give a child medicine that the doctor has taken him off of. If the child sleeps that little, why has the FATHER not taken him to the doctor to have it checked out? It is his responsibility to do so, not yours, and he and the boy's mother are the ones with the right to make medical decisions.

I am also very concerned about your statement that the only unconditional rights children have are to be fed and kept safe. They also have numerous other rights, including the right to receive an education, and most importantly, the right to be LOVED.

This is true that the father and BM are the ones to make medical decisions....but when neither one of them are making any effort to do this and help this kid, then at least the SM is TRYING to do something. Maybe, cawfecup, you should just stop all together and not worry about it. Then hopefully when your husband and so-called mother figures it out...it will not be too late. Sounds to me the bio parents are the dangerous one...not this caring SM. You do care or she would not ask for advice. I also believe the SM did not mean they do not have rights....sounds to me she is talking about for the moment and their behavior not being rewarding at that time.

my previous post..... They are/were very spoiled it has taken them a long time to realize they are not entitled to anything other than 3 meals a day and to be safe, everything else is conditional. Hubby spoils them too but I can keep him in check.....

Happy, Healthy and Safe. Yes they do have numerous rights.

If I didn't love them would I even bother trying with them? not one of my posts said I hated my stepkids or gave an ultimatum to hubby about "his children". I don't badmouth the bm to the kids. If he was my biological son would you be questioning my love for him?

What I meant was... they don't "need" tv, video games, computer, those are priveleges and wants.

quote from the 11 yo.... "I will die if I can't go on the computer" ... response "no you won't" "but I NEED to" response "No you WANT to"

You NEED food
you NEED sleep
you WANT toys
you WANT $100 video game
you don't need it.

My case is not as extreme? major difference between benedryl and a diliberate overdose encouraged by an incompetant doctor and dysfunctional parents!!
I remember reading years ago ... how a child died from having her "mouth washed out with soap".

As I said before the father didn't sleep much as a kid so they thought it was normal. There were other things going on in the home that no one was in control. When it got to be out of hand WE did take him to the drs.

Do I really need to go bashing mom for being a drunk and too busy out messing around to give a care less that her child did not sleep. The kids have said she would come home drunk and fall down. She would come home at 3 am wake up whenever the children would be at school already was too busy with her career to notice her children. Do I need to tell you instead of giving her children love she would give them "stuff" to show how much she loved them? She walked out left him with the children. The only thing she left the kids with was there beds she took all their clothes, toys, towels, furniture everything. They came home from school to an empty house. She did leave all the kitchen stuff because she doesn't cook (they don't ever remember her making them anything to eat). So please don't defend her "mother's" rights to me. She may have given birth but she did not "mother" these kids.

I cannot change the past but I can give them a better future.

cawfecup, you know when I wrote "This is true that the father and BM are the ones to make medical decisions" (in most situations) - I was totally wrong! YOU should be the one making the final decisions...this BM is not a mother...she is what gives us stepmoms a bad name! And SHE is the bio mom! Go figure. It seems she is the cause of this childs problems...she has a very dysfunctional home. Maybe you should go to child services and report her. I commend you for your job, unfortuneately us stepmoms are not appreciated - you do not see many "thank you's" from some of the people on this forum, just negativity and why us stepparents are making these children rebellious because their father/mom chose to love us. From a mom and a step mother...to you...THANK YOU!

They just came home from bm's house ... walked in the door fighting over game controllers because I hid the game controllers here (punishment) BM went out and bought them NEW ones. I don't want to get into the whole bashing ex thing I know I cannot change her.

They are also hungry seems she didn't have any clean dishes for breakfast or lunch (2 had popcorn for lunch the other had pb&j not enough bread for everyone) I sent them with a care package yesterday soup, crackers, raviolis (2 cans), spaghettios (2 cans), popcorn(6 bags), and tuna fish(5 cans). Also made sure they ate before they left here. Because she called here yesterday saying she didn't have any money to buy food.

Said to 11 yo why didn't you wash something ..because it stays soapy and I don't like eating soap ... told him to use warm water and keep rinsing till you don't see any bubbles. Why didn't you ask mom to wash the dishes? you would tell me to do them!! he said you know she won't!!

hubby just called said BM called him to tell him she didn't have any clean dishes so she couldn't feed them.

Oh my gosh...you know I would not send them back over there. There is nothing she can do about it...well she could go to court but sounds like she doesn't have the money. Those kids are being mistreated and that is what I would tell her. If your husband does not agree and sends them back, then I would tell him from now on, every doctor's appointment, or anything relating to the kids, he or his ex can do it. You will not watch them anymore until you can have some input to the whole thing. Sounds like you should give your husband an ultimatum. Either you quit sending them to her so you can have a positive influence and maybe help undue any damage, also agree that you can take the child to the therapist and be involved in the decisions...or he can do it alone. I know this sounds harsh but if you do not do something to open his eyes now, then you will find yourself leaving. I can't remember if you said you document all these things...I would definitely do that.

If bm had it her way she wouldn't see the children at all... We "make" her to take her children. The last 5 months have "been rough" for her but prior to that she was making over $10,000 a month. She quit that job to make $4000 a month so she wouldn't have to pay as much child support. We are happy its only two separate days a week. I think it would be worse on the kids if it were 2 days in a row. She tells the kids everything that happens in court that benefits her the judge said... blah blah blah.

She was warned in Nov. If the children come home saying anything else about "the judge said" I will personally call child services and tell them exactly what she says and let them sort it out(verbal and emotional abuse). She said I'll call on you "go right ahead we have nothing to worry about".

We took the high road for a bit but they would come home saying why does mommy have to pay you to be our daddy? You only have us 2 days a week more than mommy! He would let them beat him up with words.

In a fit I rattled off... And who pays for everything? Who pays for your extras? When you get sick at school who picks you up and where do you go? when you have to go to the drs who brings you? When you don't have school whose house are you at? When mommy takes as much responsiblity for you as daddy does then she won't have to pay. They have said things like .... cawfe you must be happy you don't have to work because mommy pays you to stay home!! Well then tell mommy I want a raise!!.. I am here because daddy needs me to stay home and care for you, no one pays me!! It has taken me a lot of patience to get to a point where what she says doesn't bother me I laugh it off. If I get angry at what she says and show her she wins.
its one thing for the kids to come and say no clean dishes, but for her to confirm it. I couldn't imagine calling my ex and telling him hey the kid didn't eat I didn't have any clean dishes (I wish I were making that up)

I/We use our old stand by to respond to the kids about things their mom say to them about us. Its not your fault she's just mad at herself and takes it out on you. Its not right or fair but we can't change how mommy feels and until mommy can get over being angry she is going to say and do mean things.

So the next time They go to moms packing another care package and dish soap :)

He does speak to the therapist now. I write the stuff down and he will call the therapist and talk to her.

Dear Cawfe,
There is no way in hell that that woman can't feed her children on 4000.00 a month. NO WAY.
I had ovarian cancer, my ex went to prison so I had no child support and took care of my 2 kids on my own. I worked and took care of them and our own home.
Things are out of whack and the whackos are trying to convince you it is normal. Say NOOOOOOO. You aren't crazy -she is.
Here is a quote I love
Silence should never under any circumstances be construed as agreement. A lot of the time, it's simply a reflection that someone has just said someting so stupid that no response could possibly do it justice.
There is no reponse to her bull. It is just bull and you shouldn't have to explain to the children anything. The maximum response is, OH.
I am tearing my hair out for you.
Here is your validation - YOU ARE NOT CRAZY!!!!!

A friend of mine had said a while ago ... these kids suffer from a form of "stockholm syndrome" defending their tormentor and I agreed. They have told me they tell her the "bad things" to make her happy. They can't tell her any of the "good things" because she gets angry.

She tells them I am trying to replace her (my silent response ... I could not be that useless even if I tried) Again, I cannot fix her only she can do that and she no longer "gets to me".

Buttering up bull**** does not make it tasty

Oh my goodness, cawfecup. If you were in front of me, I'd give you a big hug, because I can't believe you're going through this gracefully. I'd be tearing my own hair out.

This woman so obviously wants you to suffer. How sad that she's forcing the kids to get in the middle of it, and to cause you pain.

If she doesn't even want the kids for those 2 days a week, who is forcing them to go to her? Do they even want to see her? I mean, the thing about not feeding them because she had no clean dishes probably speaks volumes about her household. It seems like the kids will only shape up when she has zero influence over them.

It wasn't always so gracefully... And I still have my moments when I am not so "graceful".

We "force" her to spend time with her kids. She makes excuses why she can't see them and we settle the excuse if she cannot see the kids for whatever reason we make her tell them she can't make it. So they know its not daddy keeping them from her (thats what she used to tell them) Daddy won't let me see you.... YES they want to see their mom. We have structure here rules etc... mom's is like camp do whatever they want when they want.

The kids have come along way they are not the same children I first met ... overall they are good kids she just confuses them.

I was teaching the 11 yo how to wash dishes by hand last night we have a dishwasher. BM called she spoke to the kids asked what they were doing ... then asked to speak to dad and gave him grief because I was showing him how to do the dishes. Dads response... He's 11 why can't he do dishes once in a while.

She is only at the apartment when the kids are there. We dropped the kids off at her house @ 5 PM sunday (excuses #3 & #4) She dropped the kids off @ noon monday ... in 17 hours couldn't wash dishes? not even rinse out 3 bowls for a microwave meal? not like she had to "cook" for them. Nothing in the care package (excuses #1 & #2) had to be cooked.

excuse #1 no money to buy food (we'll bring dinner)
excuse #2 no money or food (sent a care package)
excuse #3 no gas to p/u (we will drop them off)
excuse #4 I have to work late .. p/u is 3 pm (5pm is fine)

I wish there was a valid medical excuse/reason for her behavior.