we did all of that and more for BM even when she only had the kids eow...maybe and definately after she took the kids back... still she went after more money ... the only thing she was basically paying for was the lights at her boyfriends house and gas in her car. We bought all clothes sports activities food field trips school supplies and yes even groceries for her house even though.. they were eating dinner at our house before/after practice and breakfast and lunch at school... so they only basically ate at her house on the weekends.

one year my X decided to send money directly to DD instead of me. I was furious because it was a pretty good chunk of money and DD spent it on nonsense instead of me buying her necessary stuff, i was so upset and pissed at him, you won't believe it. After he already sent her a decent amount of money I couldn't ask for more, but money was spent on stuff that was not needed at this point. And I still got no help!

In our state all CP is put on a 'debit card' so what you spend it on can be tracked, so if Dh actually received any we could account for all the haircuts,clothes etc..it would go towards. I understand your point TOS, but I know many (decent) NCP's that cover sports, clothes, haircuts, school costs etc.. and their CP still complains about the support level, I think some cases its not really about the money, its more about spite for the old partner and wanting 'revenge' by making him 'pay through the teeth'. On the other hand, there are many cases (my Dh's for example) where the requested amount of CP is ridiculous (under 100 a month for two kids) and barely covers feeding them for a week let alone any school,medical,extracurricular or other expenses. Its a flawed system...

It doesn't have to be put aside and used strictly for the children. It goes for the rent, utilities, groceries, etc. and the child's personal needs, school expenses, clothes, lunch money, etc..

finedreams, money that is sent directly to the child is a 'gift' and not 'support'. If she was under the age of majority, he might still owe you 'support'. (support is meant to help with rent/mortgage, utilities, food, clothing, transportation, etc.) and depending on your DD's age at the time, I might have been upset with her too since at a certain age, kids are supposed to take some personal responsibility for what they do.

and maybe I'm naive, but I think that if you submit an honest accounting of your financial situation and the other parent does too (and neither is working less than they can or not at all in order to affect the support amount) then whatever the court orders should be it. It really isn't the other parent's business what you do with the money (unless the child's 'needs' are obviously not being met) and it doesn't matter what their lifestyle is. I think my SD's mom has never sent a penny because she has never worked and my husband & I both work. Maybe she feels we don't 'need' her money. So, now we are taking her to court to get an order. I don't care if the court thinks she only owes ten dollars a month. She needs to pay it because her child deserves to get what the court says, whether WE need it or not. And as far as going on expensive vacations, remodeling homes, buying new cars, or expensive toys.... etc. who cares? If the court ordered amount is being paid, then that's their obligation and as long as it's being met, what they (either parent) does with their own finances after that is their own business. and I also don't think a NCP has the right to tell the CP anything unless the child is dressed like a rag doll or is being neglected in some way. If the CP feels the CS isn't enough and the NCP's income has gone up, then go back to court and get it adjusted or send the child to live at the NCP's house. It usually costs more to raise a child than what is ordered in court, and that's because BOTH parents are supposed to be supporting the child. It isn't just the NCP's responsiblity.

and, I personally disagree that child support should support utilities and rent. Those children are just as much the mothers as the fathers wether or not they are together they still would have had to pay for those things... I dont think one should have to support the other on their own basic necessities. And to clarify my viewpoint on this... This is coming from my single mom POV... I did not accept money from my daughters father... I asked him to buy things for our daughter and help pay for specific things like daycare... I would have needed a place to live and lights on no matter if I had a child or not those were my responsibility as a grown adult a woman and a mother. But then again... I am apparently in the very minority when it comes to this issue among women... and apparently the courts.

iammommy, she was not of legal age and yes he owes me on child support but... he pays college tuition and cost of living now that i would not be able to afford so i am glad, as long as he pays for it I forgot about child support. She didn't know it was CS, it was in his mind not hers or mine, she thought it was just additional money he was sending. he normally sent CS and then some extra for her. And she was repsonsible, she was spending on good stuff like books but there were other important things she needed at that point. she didn't know she was not supposed to spend that. It was entirelly his fault.

if X stops paying for college and such I will probably stop being nice and ask for back CS. i hope it is not going to happen.

if you are by yourself, you don't have to rent the same size place as when you have kids, and kids do use hot water, elctricity etc. so if kids live with you 100%, then why can't the other parent help with that?

momOf4, you can disagree but the law says that's what it's for. Your kids are entitled to have both parents contribute to their housing & utilities. If you are single with no kids, you might get by in a less expensive one bedroom house, with kids, they need a room. They use electricity too. Those expenses increase with the more people living there. PART of the support is to cover that. Of course, you are supposed to cover part also because you are also the parent. All the expenses of a child should be a 'shared' responsibility between both parents. If you paid all the housing costs and he paid all the daycare, it kinda balances it out, but in the eyes of the law, you should pay part of the daycare and he should pay part of the housing. and Child support is the right of the child, not the CP. If you don't need it, you can put it in the bank for your child when they grow up, or if you ever fall on hard times.

because they are your kids just as much as they are their kids. You have a responsibility to support them as well. And again regardless of what others say because I have always been in the minority on this especially with women ... I think it is my responsibility to put a roof over our heads and heat and electric and what not. It is his responsibility to help with raising her and making sure that her direct needs are met... diapers clothes shoes food child care etc..and even then it is a partnership. I dont help pay for his larger place to live so that his daughter has a room and uses electricity and so on... so why should he help me pay for mine... it is ridiculous.

And Ima I believe I already said that the courts say otherwise... and more so I highly disagree that it is a childs right to recieve a paycheck... It is a child's right to be loved cared for etc. NOT recieve a check. Nor is it my right (I feel) to go after someone for a check simply because I can. He supported his child she had everything she need... to go after a check just to get a check is well money grubbing. And in no way shape or form would I support that concept. As I said if my daughter's father were alive today... I would still not accept a dime from him... I would maintain my home and let him know when our child needed something and so on. I think child support is a severly flawed system with back dated ideas rules and faulty calculations... and needs to be revamped. Now, don't get me wrong it is not that I think child support shouldnt exist because there are a lot of fathers out there that would cut off their left arm before they supported their child but... I still think certain areas are and always will be your responsibility and not someone else's like your roof over your head.

If it's 50/50 shared custody and both are maintaining a house and have equal expenses, then I'd agree with you. I don't think there should be any support exchanged if both parents spend equal time parenting the child, unless one parent makes a ton more money than the other, then the child should benefit from his/her parent's financial position (like Donald Trump status). But in general, if one has primary custody and more expenses, then I disagree with your philosophy.

ima is right (we actually agree for a change) - the cost of putting a roof over the children's head is NOT just the responsibility of the CP. If I didn't have 4 dependent children, I wouldn't need a three bedroom house, and my utility bills wouldn't be nearly as high. A one bedroom apartment around here goes for about $1200 a month less than the rent or mortgage on a three bedroom place.

Most courts wouldn't allow the NCP to pay directly for all the groceries and or activities in lieu of all child support, but if the CP is seeking an increase, I think it would be a good compromise for the NCP to pay for something that he or she could see benefits the child directly, yet is something that the CP would otherwise be paying for.

I have to agree - the costs of living increase with children and support should partially cover that. In my state they decrease the amount of CS a NCP should pay by the amount of time kids are with NCP and the cost of living NCP has because of that time.
In my case NCP pays a nominal amount of support and that is it. Not a dime toward any other costs of raising a child, and the CS might cover her food costs for the month. We could gripe, but to what good?

What is the average amount, not cs amount, generally speaking does it take per month to raise a child do you guess? I know approximately on my 3 little guys, but I don't know on teenagers. I would think the food would be the highest. I guess little kids...childcare would be the most expensive. I know for my 3 kids in childcare alone it's over $1200/month. That's why I'm staying home right now. I know if my DH & I divorced, he would be homeless because the support would be outrageous. I don't think that would be fair to him, especially if I wanted the divorce. I don't know how they'd figure our situation out in a fair way. I guess we'll just have to stay married.
I think the debit card is a great idea. Someone mentioned that. What state does that? I think receipts should be shown & also how the money is being spent. I've seen people spend a good portion of the cs on designer clothes for themselves while buying their kids clothes at Goodwill. They worked at Walmart. I've also known people to be with boy/girlfriends & spend the money on them & cigarettes. They smoked. How can someone unemployed, receiving aid from the state & child support afford cigarettes? I'm not against smokers, per se, but they are expensive. So I like that debit program.

Misti, the most outrageous example I can think of is my DH's ex. She gets about 1200 a month for one child. Her child is 12 and she's gotten that amount since the child was 1 (it was ordered 533 of it is specifically for daycare, which she hasn't been in daycare EVER) but now the BM lives with her BF and the child lives with BM's mom. BM is still collecting the child support but Grandma is supporting the child. (sorry to repeat the story for those that have heard it before)

Anyways, BM is a smoker. She went a year and half ago and bought a brand new full size truck (she used her mom's credit because BM didn't have a job), she was taking tae kwon do lessons (for herself), had a cell phone, went to Starbucks several times a week to hang out with friends, went out clubbing at least once a week (not sure if she still goes out with her BF, but she did that when she was single), and she went to concerts. She also has taken two trips from California to Texas. The first time, she was gone for a month (by herself) and the second time, she was gone for ten days with both of her girls. When she was single, she was living with her mom and her mom would buy clothes for her older daughter, my DH would buy for his daughter. But, she hasn't held a job in her adult life (nothing more than part time, low wage jobs but she got her EMT certification so she could work if she wanted to.) I just find it outrageous that she could live a party lifestyle and have a new vehicle, cell phone and an expensive hobby (tae kwon do) and not work. She and her BF bought all five kids (her two and his three) as well as themselves ATV's and all the gear for Christmas. Seven Quads and gear is a small fortune, but she can't or won't pay her half for her daughter's counseling & medical bills.

Here is an interesting and depressing article on how much it costs to raise a child:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P37245.asp

Until it comes to the point where they are teenagers I don't think kids cost nearly as much as people say. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong? I'd still have the same bills except for additional costs in health insurance, food, a slight increase in electricity, and clothes. I think the real cost will come when DD gets her drivers license.

I have always made the same amount of food. Now that the two boys are out of the house, we have leftovers we don't eat and throw away. We have never gone out and spent fortunes on clothes. The kids have never had the latest and greatest toys or gagets but they certainly haven't been deprived. I tend to be very frugal, I started out having to be that way and have found I don't know how to do anything else even now that we do have a significantly higher income bracket.

I guess that's why even though the lions share of the cost of raising DD is on me and my husband, I haven't ever wanted or desired to ask BF for cs. DD lives with us both equally, I pay for health insurance, most clothes, co payments, deductibles, I paid for orthodontics, hearing aids and glasses. He pays for school lunches and camp and band trips. I have been claiming her on my taxes to make up the difference.

What about when BM remarries and has a child with her new DH? Doesn't HE have a responsibility to pay a portion of the mortgage, utilities, etc. for HIS child, such that BM's support would be reduced, since her obligations are shared by someone else in the home? Not in my state! If a BM chooses to shack up or remarry and have additional children, she gets the same CS for her other children. That means my DH is paying for her new family, too!!

Imamommy,
That's terrible. You could stop that I bet if you were to push & see if Grandma claims that on her taxes as income. Because if Grandma receives money for childcare, she has to claim that as income. Do you & DH get to claim that childcare amount that he gives to BM? You should be able to & you would need Grandma's social security # to do it. Why does a 12 year old need child care any longer anyway? A 12 year old should be able to watch herself. I was babysitting at that age.

The 12 year old is her daughter from her first marriage. We have DH's daughter (she's 8) and there's no support going either way with her right now. The father of the 12 year old lives four or five hours south of the daughter. BM lives three hours north of her. I was just commenting on it because it was mentioned that the debit cards would track how the money is spent. I find it outrageous that a mom could collect support while grandma works and actually supports the child. Grandma in this case, is 74 years old. She should be retired and taking a cruise, not working to feed & clothe a 12 year old that has two parents that should be supporting her. I'm sure she does it out of love and the father is paying what he is supposed to, the problem is the money is going into the wrong hands and being misused.

Woops, I see. Yes, I've seen that many times about the cs going to the wrong people. Boyfriends gas, housing 2 men while the kids sleep in one filthy room, partying $.

Misti,

After a divorce, most women see a decrease in their standard of living, most men, an increase. You talk about "many times, you see CS going to the wrong people". I think "many times" the right people dont get CS.

What are the stats anyway? Are there more ncp paying or more cp not receiving?
I wonder if age/race/genders make a difference?

Just starting off without food, utilities or clothes added in, this is what I pay monthly for my child.

$800 - daycare (this is standard rate)
$320 - insurance premium (this is her premium alone and does not count copays)

When I first filed for support I was broke and only made about 27K a year. The NCP was only ordered to pay $300 per month. He made over 40k, but was given a break because he had two children in the home with him. But there wasn't any proof that they were his. Not fair, imo.

Nivea - credit because they were there vs. HIS? That has to be the most bogus thing I have heard all day. Why in the world is the CS system not better??

This all depends on your financial situation. When I was first divorced- some of the child support had to cover housing and general expenses as I had them all but every other Saturday night so my work hours were reduced. Now that I am remarried, I let XH off the hook for insurance and his share sports, lessons, etc. I now put the child support into a separate bank account and take it out as I need it to pay for sports equipment, copays, clothes... So at the moment XH pays CS and for gifts. We never fight about money because he knows I am very careful with money and I use it strictly for their care (clothes, food, doctor, etc) When he has them for two weeks in the summer I don't take child support and he complains that they cost him a fortune.