Additionally, I don't think that other sites on the internet are a complete representation of SMs at large...
SMs who are moving through their Sfamily situations without incident, don't typically go to online forums.
So, since mean SMs who don't like their SKs are obviously NOT moving through their Sfamily situations without incident, there is an over-representation on the web.

I bet you can find forums of people freaking out about their in-laws, but how many forums do you see of people singing their in-laws praises? However, we all know that there are many in-laws that are fabulous people who are wonderful and supportive, and many who are dreadful.

Ceph, believe it or not I fart butterflies in day to day life :) Seriously.

But what is posted on most blended family "vent" forums is simply not the norm and is not factually representative of the norm. Do you honestly not believe the facts and statistics of first marriages/second marriages...cost of raising a child/stepchild, funding of a stepchilds college education, weddings...ad nauseum all of the stepfamily topics are factually represented 100% of the time in most forums?

As I've said repeatedly in this thread, GW and bonusfamilies are one of the more balanced forums on the net. IMO, because they DO allow biomoms to post.

Go to stepkids.net or whatever they are, and then tell me that biomoms are just out to get SM's.

And yes, experience colors everything. In my experience, I've taken the time to research social and biological behavior and YES statistics that some here do like to convienently avoid...stepmoms that say and actually do love their stepkids as their own are not the norm.

Bashing the few biomoms that post here for having a differing opinion (on facts backed up btw) is just turning a blind eye to what could be an informative conversation, but instead turning to groupthink.

Wow Nivea - how 'bout a Google search on 'dead horse.' What exactly IS your point tonight? That we should look at everyone in a negative light because there are some 'bad apples' in a group?

Then let's see what we need forums for. How 'bout:

Women with colored hair - there are some bad die jobs out there
Men who wear flip flops - also wearing socks is just wrong
Pets - mine barks too much and has bad gas
Bloggers - some spell very poorly

I could go on and on. The point is that in every situation there are good and there are bad. But the statements like steps don't love their kids because you've encountered some on a message board is as asinine as saying they shouldn't sell plaid shorts as some may pair them with stripes. Open your eyes, sweetie. Not everyone is cut from the same mold as your step mom.

Ceph, how many forums do you see about SP's bragging about their SK's? How many forums do you see about SP's "venting" about their SK's?

How many forums do you see about BioParents "venting"? (not asking for help, as in the SP forums asking for help here as in GW and Bonusfamilies)

How many bioparent forums have you seen "venting" about the stepparent? ***that's the real question*** IMO

JNM, I do not know if you are being purposely obtuse or not or just not following the thread.

There is a major difference between GW and most stepfamily websites on the net. MAJOR difference. GW allows for differing opinions and is probably one of the very rare places on the net a biomom can state her opinion with stepmoms.

It is refreshing to me to come here to see a logical debate or at least balanced most of the time.

It is irritating to see someone tell a biomom here that they shouldn't be posting because they are coming from a biomom perspective.

"Ceph, how many forums do you see about SP's bragging about their SK's? How many forums do you see about SP's "venting" about their SK's?"

Uh, yeah. That was the point of what I was saying.
We don't see many forums of people singing their SKs' praises because we keep our good things to ourselves, but we shout our bad things from the mountaintops.

I'm going to make a little thread about something I try to live by related to this... it might take a few minutes.

Here it is...
A little story of why we see such cranky forums on the internet and so few cheery ones.
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/step/msg0900495317656.html

"it is a fact (biological one, in fact) that SM's or any step for that matter, do not love their SC as a biological does or will provide as a biological would"

This is the single most ignorant statement EVER... That is like saying an adopted child cannot be loved as much as a biological child. BULL CRAP. Maybe YOU could not love a child that you don't give birth to, but how dare you make a general statement that only a biological parent can love their child or provide for their child as a biological parent would. Did you read the original post... yeah, my stepdaughter's mom DOESN'T provide for her biological children at all. In fact, she lives off the child support her husband sends for her older daughter and lets grandma support that one. She gave up custody of both of her daughters to play house with a guy that she knew two weeks and spends more time playing 'stepmom' to his kids than she does playing mom to her own.

Just because your stepmom didn't like you, doesn't mean that all stepmom's feel that way about their step children or that there aren't some that can love the child as their own. Given some of the things you've said here, maybe she has a reason to not like you. Maybe it has nothing to do with you being a step child, perhaps it's your overall personality she dislikes.

I'm likely guilty of both - being obtuse and bored with the repetitive thread. It truly seems as though you are buying into the 'mold' theory and I guess I expected a little more from you.

I don't believe I've said bio parents don't belong here. In fact, I know I've defended their 'right' to be here.

Again, the molds . . .

I have a theory on why you don't see bio's complaining about their kids as much as steps. As a step parent many don't have the same 'right' to call the kid out for bad behavior, or debate with the other parent as to what 'right' is. Often, the steps just have to keep quiet and put up with it, where with their bio kids they can speak their mind freely both to the child and to their other parent. In the absence of that outlet, you see steps turn to others in the same situation for support, guidance or just to vent to an understanding ear. The result - many more step forums then bio forums.

I think it is so ridiculous to claim that most stepparents love their stepchildren that it is pointless to argue about it.

ima,

If you don't want pictures of your stepdaughter in a shirt that was bought in a thrift store, then don't buy the pictures. There is no reason to upset the child by insisting that she wear what you want her to wear, when her mother wants her to wear something different. And what kind of lesson is it teaching a child to imply that second hand clothes are not good enough? Most of my kids' clothes are second hand, or third hand - and a lot of them are from those fancy stores that I would never shop in even if I were a millionaire.

I haven't read all the responses but I can say that I totally relate. My 3 stepdaughters moved in 6 years ago, the biomom has paid child support when it suited her, for 3 children it was $67.00 week, and recently for 2 kids it was $96.00 and we are waiting for the court to make a final decision on what it will be for the remaining 1. Biomom has never paid on time, we have chased every time, they attached income tax but won't release for 6 months as it also has her husbands name on it. She has cried poverty, takes 1 - 2 classes at a time and tells court she is trying to get an education (well it's been 6 years) so court gives her a break everytime...She is remarried, has a very nice home, a $200,000 RV, vacations a couple times a year, drives a newer car, she lacks for nothing. So I have paid for braces, clothes, incidentals, etc etc etc..I just took the medical insurance from my work and added my DH stepdaughters as my insurance was far better then what his employment offers....

My DSD just left for college and I am helping with that. I could go on and on.. but I totally relate. My DH had debt when we got together and I have covered more expenses then I care to add up, it does cause resentment over time. But I will tell you what I finally had to do to save my sanity, weather it's right or wrong.... Whatever my SD needs are, it is the responsibility of DH to pay... weather it's prescriptions, medical bills, new shoes, clothes etc.. Not to say I don't buy anything but I realized that I had to slow down and stop opening my wallet. It makes me feel better and I have my own daughter at home to worry about. I picked up school supplies but I shopped bargains and probably cost me $20 at most. But when my SD says I need $$ for ..... I say, well, when you dad gets home let him know. I adore my SD's.. all 3... but there comes a time when you just have to say no. And I agree, when you are paying for things you feel that you have a "right" to have a say.. and sometimes it's hard to separate that fact. And please just remember, regardless of what you buy or do, they have a biological mom that they will love regardless of weather she pays support, pays for bus transportation, medical bills etc.. Kids don't care about those things and that is what frustrated me. The bio mom could walk away from providing $$ for all of these things but at the end of the day, they love her and you are just the stepmom.... that has been the one difficult thing for me, which is why I had to just change the way I viewed things... Good luck...

JNM, I think we're getting at the same thing but different ways. And you are one of the posters that I actively read when lurking because you give great and balanced advice, so it does kind of burn that I didn't live up to your expectations in this blog :(

I keep saying GW is fairly balanced and I believe it is because of the additions of biomoms does not make it conducive to groupthink. When someone here posts that a biomom couldn't possibly have input into a stepfamily situation, that is going with the mold IMO.

And yes, I do think it is pointless to argue that SM's can love their children as they do biological. I did not say that they can't love their SC, but it is not the same as biological.

And yes, Imamommy ;) caught your ad hom. Quite lovely.

1. I am not saying that this should be a forum just for stepparents. I was merely suggesting if you are so unhappy with the lack of BM forums to go create one. There happen to be some very good points made here by BMs and as I said I value the imput as it is often helpful.

2. I never made any remark about SMs loving SKs more or less than the BMs. I just said I BELIEVE most stepparents love their SKs.

3. I happen to have typed on here about cute memories of my stepson and that he is a great kid.

4. I do realize that there are all sorts of facts about husbands and wives and marriage, but I did not personally get married based on statistical evidence so I also do not really care. I do find it funny that it is mentioned consistently by the bitter ex club on here.

I am going on vacation. Have a great weekend.

TOS' marriage was a second one. That's the reason why it failed ;-)

"I did not say that they can't love their SC"

Ummm, what you said was:

"it is a fact (biological one, in fact) that SM's or any step for that matter, do not love their SC as a biological does or will provide as a biological would."

These are your own words. You said it is a fact (biological one, in fact). If you are going to state your opinion, then maybe you should not say 'it's a fact'. and are you saying now that Steps 'can' love their SC, but in your other statement, you say "it's a fact that SM's do not love their SC"? So, which is it? We can but we don't?

What authority are you speaking on when you say a person can't love a child that isn't theirs biologically? Or maybe the better question is how do you know if someone can love a biological and non biological child the same? How do you know it HAS to be different? I can certainly agree that there CAN be biological ties that are strong because the child has bonded with the biological parent and/or shares DNA and may be intrigued by the genetic similarities but to say that a person cannot love a non biological child the same is an insult to adopted children everywhere. Every person loves in their own way and there are people that open their hearts to children, regardless of who gave birth to them, regardless of anything, and give them love. I could never say that every person out there can or would love a child that isn't theirs biologically, just as I could never say that every parent that has biological children, loves and cares for them as much as some step parents and/or adoptive parents (and even some foster parents) love those same children.

I'll be sure to inform FDH that he doesn't love A__ as much as he would if A__ was his own biological child.
As a man of logic, I'm sure he'll come to terms with it, once I explain that it is "fact."

(Recall that FDH is not A__'s biological father and did not meet A__ until he was a few weeks old, but has been the only dad A__ has ever had)

Ceph,
I'll be also sure to inform my other friends of my Cancer Survivor Support Group that we also can not love our children as much as would because dues to chemo and radiation ALL our children, including my twins, were conceived through egg or sperm donation so we don't have genetic ties with them..

Once upon a time long long ago everyone knew that the world was flat ... indeed it was considered fact. We all know how well that turned out. I intend to be the exception to the "norm" (which I personally hate and do not think truly exists) and have no intention upon listening to or making decisions based upon statistics. Statistics, in my opinion, are a bunch of crap anyways. They can be made to say whatever you want whenever you want... ever heard of 80% of statistics are made up on the spot... :-) Let those who have no idea what it is to love cherish and know without a doubt I would sacrifice everything I have for any one of kids (please note Skids are included) continue to say what they will... I know different.

I think all of the bioparents who post here have biochildren who are in stepfamilies. that's why BMs post here. i don't know any biomoms here whose children are not involved in a stepfamily. also some biomoms might have stepparents or other step situations. i don't remember this forum being called: stepmoms forum.

I think that people can love their stepkids just the same as their biokids. But i have to say that some of the examples on this forum do not suggest much love towards SKs. maybe care etc but not love. i am not saying it is the case with everyone, but some examples tell me a lot about lack of love. sometimes I read responces that make me think no one would act this way with their own children. like competing wiht them, or mocking, or if you don't do this for me I won't do that for you etc. Does not sound very loving to me.

My sister has a SS. I think she has been good to him, and they have a good relationship. But she has never pretended to be the mom, and never tries to make decisions.

Overall, I agree with FD's last post... But one thing did stick out to me: "if you don't do this for me I won't do that for you etc."

We had plenty of do/don't deals from our parents growing up. A few examples:
If we didn't listen during the day, Mom didn't feel the need to give us a ride to a social outing we wanted to go to. We could call a friend to get their mom or dad to pick us up, or we could not go.
When we started complaining about "but I don't want ___ in my lunch today" we started packing out own lunches (with Mom's supervision).
If we put our dirty laundry in our hampers, Mom would do it, but she was not about to wade through the rubble on our bedroom floors to find laundry.
If we helped out with chores and were "good" kids, then we got lots of special extras and privileges. If we were lazy little brats, she sure wasn't about to go out ofher way to make our lives more fun.

What did I learn from this? You give some, you get some. Treat people how you want to be treated. Don't expect other people to go the extra mile for you, if you wouldn't go it for them.
I'm GLAD our parents had a "if you don't do this for me, I won't do that for you" attitude!!

I do things for my children because 1) I love them and 2) because I am responsible for them, not because they have done, or will do, something for me.

I guess ceph it is one way of parenting and it is possibly a right way. i don't know. I prefer unconditional relationships in a family-parents and kids.

my parents didn't practice any of give/take with us though and I don't do this with DD either. We just do things for each other without thinking much. I did DD's laundry no matter where she left it. same did my mom. But then I am taking care of my parents the same way. My dad was a big pain in you know what most of his life but he is my dad and there is very little I would not do for him.

I don't know what are special rewards or privillegies. Like what?

"You give some you get some" just does not work for me in a family. I cannot imagine saying to a kid I will not drive you to a party because you didn't listen during the day.

I am not saying it is right. Maybe I am wrong, but we all grow up very hard working and very close and loving to our families wihtout it. I think you can get the same results by just loving your kids unconditionally. DD is a pretty kind hearted and hard working person but I used to dig up her dirty laundry from under the bed and other places. lol It didn't damage her.

My father used to say that the only thanks he ever expected from his children was for us to be good, loving parents to our children.

sure - part of that is parental responsibility. I feed and cloth them because they are my kids and I love them. Do I have to buy them special foods or special clothes? Of course not, but I might feel compelled to do so because they have made an extra effort to help with chores, helped their siblings with something or done something special to deserve a special reward. There is a difference between 'doing for' and 'going the extra mile.' You know that, TOS. But I sure chuckle at your obtuseness.

FD asked: "I don't know what are special rewards or privillegies. Like what?"

Food was rarely used as a reward in our family, but when I was quite small, I lived for the sheer joy of McDonald's french fries. If I had been good all day running errands with Mom in the city (we lived out of town), she would stop and get me a small fries on the drive home.

As I got older, and it was more important to me to have cooler clothes, I recall being given the incentive of a particular trendy sweater I wanted if I helped my dad clean out the garage in the late summer. I would have gotten the plain, less expensive sweater for my back-to-school shopping if I hadn't.

I loved to read, and always have. When I had a bedtime, I frequently earned an extra 15 minutes of reading before lights-out for being good in the evening. I also remember getting extra books from the elementary school book order form for general good behavior. Even if I had a bratty week, I would have gotten a book or two, but I was offered "bonus books" for "bonus behavior."

If I was dressed, fed, packed and ready for school, I could watch some cartoons before the schoolbus came when I was small. If I was stalling and not ready, no TV.

If I had all my weekend chores and homework done, I could probably eat supper in the living room on Sunday night to watch "Wonderful World of Disney" (since we always ate at the table, this was something I considered a rare treat)

I was taken out for dinner to a restaurant of my choice for a great report card in grade nine, and given a gift certificate for a nice date for me and my high-school BF for a great report card in grade ten.

Speaking of my high-school BF, he was allowed to come along on a family trip to the lake because I was good about listening to my parents' requests and guidelines about him. I would have been allowed to go, regardless, bringing him was an "extra."

We were always loved, always given hugs and kisses, always tucked in at night... We were always fed, clothed and sheltered... I don't remember a single moment in my childhood where I felt unloved, but a lot of my "perks" were because I was earning them.

Does that clear it up?

**"You give some you get some" just does not work for me in a family. I cannot imagine saying to a kid I will not drive you to a party because you didn't listen during the day.**

I guess I can't see why a person should continue to put themselves out for another if there is no reciprocation or paying it forward? I don't mean this in just a parent/child context, but in relationships in general. If you continue to do do do for someone but they are never expected to do anything but take take take what does that teach them?

Back to the party thing. If your child can not respect the need to listen to their parent why should you respect their need to get to the party? Seems like the doormat theory to me. I don't expect a tit for tat tally on the chalk board, but I do expect some give for the get.

FWIW, my SD does her own laundry. And she is surviving it!!

No, I am not being obtuse. I "go the extra mile" for my children regardless of whether they are "well behaved" or not. I buy them clothes based on whether I can afford them and whether they like them. I stop at McDonald's if they (or I, because I actually really like the fries too) want to and if I can afford it. I didn't pay them for good grades. If they want something that is either good for them or at least not harmful, and they are capable of taking care of it (especially if it is something alive) and I can afford it, I will do my best to get it for them. I very rarely attach strings to anything.

And yes, all but the youngest do their own laundry - no matter how well behaved they are.

So, TOS, you've never rewarded your children for being "extra good" by taking them somewhere they like??
Or told them something like "No, $100 for a pair of jeans is silly. I will buy you the $40 jeans or you can earn the remainder by helping rip out those hedges at the bottom of the yard on Saturday"

There's nothing wrong with it if you never rewarded or motivated like that... But it wasn't how I grew up, and not how anyone else I know raises kids either... So I think it's rather unusual and wonder if you just aren't understanding what we mean.

Ceph,

Perhaps once or twice, in the last almost three decades, I have given a child some kind of reward for an accomplishment - never for "being extra good" though.

I have never spent forty dollars on a pair of jeans, actually. I don't think I've ever spent thirty. There is no way I would have anything to do with the purchase of $100 jeans. But since that was not what you we really asking - I have, on rare occasions, paid my children to do a specific, one time job. I found out quite a few children ago that paying for regular chores that I really wanted them to do in any case was ineffective, because if you are paying them to do a chore, they have the option of deciding not to do it and not get paid. In the last couple of decades, if there is a chore I wantws them to do, I just asked/told them to do it.

My parents would never have paid me for grades, and I would never do that with my kids. I was raised to believe that you get good grades for their intrinsic value and for the sense of accomplishment it gives you. The grades themselves were a reward.

Quit harping on that TWICE I was rewarded in thirteen years of good grades.
Those rewards came out of the blue, I wasn't expecting them. My parents just said something like "I'm so impressed! Let's go out to dinner to celebrate your good work! It's your good grades, you get to pick!" for the one that was first term grade nine...
Then two equally fabulous report cards passed with 'nothing more' than a hug and an "I'm proud of you!" which was plenty of reward on its own... Until my parents decided that since I had hardly seen my BF (who they liked very much) while I was studying for the exams I aced, they would pay for us to go out on a nice date.

This was not like the friends I had who received $100 for each grade above 80% at final report cards, and $50 for each grade above 80$ at midterm report cards.
I wasn't trying to get good marks to be rewarded with cash value. I was trying to get good marks for "their intrinsic value and for the sense of accomplishment" and my parents decided to give a little bonus, which was very nice of them.

Now quit dwelling and say something constructive.

I do, however, agree that kids shouldn't be paid for chores.
Chores are something you have to do as a member of the household. They are not optional.

I will tell A__ "No, you cannot go on the computer until you have taken out the recycling and put your laundry away"
But there's no extras given.

Things I can think of off the top of my head for ways we reward A__:
High fives and hugs of course!
Extra reading time
Extra computer or video game time
Extra playing outside time
Sticker sheets
White board markers
Little plastic animals
He gets to choose the movie

Most of these come out of the blue, when he is "caught" being good as a way to reinforce the good behavior.

I don't advocate bribing children with large sums of money.

You're the one who brought up the paying for grades thing to begin with.

I never received a "perk" for any reason whatsoever when I was a child. I grew up in a family like finedreams', where the relationships were unconditional, and my children were raised the same way. The way you and some of the other posters were raised/are raising their children or stepchildren is just completely foreign to me.

So TOS, if your child was being uncooperative, did not complete the chores asked of them, argued with you when they were assigned, snapped their siblings because they were annoyed about the task at hand and then asked you to drive them to a party, you would? You would find that behavior supportive of going to a party, or fries from McDonalds?

I was never paid for grades, and believe as well that they should be earned because of the importance they have, not to fill a wallet. BUT, I see no problem with randomly declaring it dinner out night or movie out night because of a special accomplishment at school. I think it conveys that we as parents understand our child went above and beyond and we appreciate it. I would never do this every time as they would have the wrong motivation to succeed, but random rewards are a positive, IMO.

So is unconditional love movies/dinner out whenever the kids want? Or never? Or every other Friday? Please define, as I see no link between perks/rewards and unconditional love.

Yes, I would drive them to the party. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

We don't go out to dinner "whenever the kids want" because I can't afford that. They probably see one or two movies a year. We go out to dinner once in awhile, when somebody really wants a change of pace and I can afford it. We go to McD's when we have a really good coupon or it is inconvenient to cook at home/we are on the road - like most everyone else. It has nothing to do with their behavior - of course if they misbehaved in the restaurant I might hesitate to take them back for awhile, but that has nothing to do with rewards for unrelated behavior.

I certainly give rewards for extra special accomplishments, or for things the kids do that go beyond what I expect of them.

I dont do it all the time, and I dont tell them in advance. Its spontaneous in our house, like JNM said, a random "lets go celebrate".

I dont pay for grades, since all kids are different, and one kids "c" is another kids "a+". It would be unfair of me to pay for doing what I expect each child to do, which is , to work at the best of their ability, try, and be happy with who they are.

I am fairly hands off on a lot of things, the same way TOS is though. I think whatever works in your family is the best way because there is no right or wrong way as long as there is love and respect, etc. In Cephs case, A_ has severe ADHD and I am sure it helps everyone in that situation, to know in advance what will or wont happen. ADHD kids need a lot more structure than most kids.

On an amusing note, my kids also have all done their laundry, since their 8th birthday. Starting when they were very small, I always made a fuss, that only BIG kids can do laundry, and when they finally get old enough, they too will be allowed to do their laundry. I made such an issue of it being a treat, and as my kids got older, each one who passed his 8th also would make a fuss for the younger ones. ON the 8th birthday, we would escort birthday child to the laundry, show them how to use the soap and machine, and then watch as they did their first load. Thats the day I stopped washing their clothes. Its amazing that it was such a thrill for them. If only it would work on husbands.

I do little extra-special things for DS when he has a good week. Last Friday, he had been exeptionally proactive with getting his homework done at daycare and making sure he was ready for baseball practice and the teacher even called me and complimented DS on how well he's fitting in to the new school and what a thoughtful and brilliant kid he is. I thought that deserved something special. So after I picked him up from daycare I said "Would you like a chocolate shake?" and he said "really? Did I do something good?" I laughed and said "It really wasn't just one thing. You made sure to have your stuff done this week and it made things run a whole lot smoother. So I thought you deserved a little token of appreciation" He said "awe.....thanks, Mom!"

A few months ago, he had been having issues at daycare with some kids being racist. It was very hurtful and it went on for a couple of weeks. So one Friday, after the whole week had gone by without incident, I stopped by Target and got a game for his Nintendo DS that he had been wanting. He wasn't expecting it. But he almost started crying when I gave it to him. He was so happy that I noticed that he had really made an effort to get along.

That's all it takes sometimes to make a kid feel good. Rewarding the positives when the positives go largely unnoticed. That doesn't mean I reward every good day or week. But sometimes the negatives get all the attention and the small day-to-day positives get left out in the cold.

They may not be directly related to each other, but a party is a priviledge in my book. Treating people poorly and not doing what is asked of you, assuming the request is reasonable, does not earn a priviledge. It earns one the right to sit at home with mom and reflect that next time they should do their chores w/o arguing and be nicer to their siblings.

i am not saying I am right. maybe I am wrong, but I am very sincere in saying that i could not remember any special rewards or privilegies or punishments that i gave DD. i also do not remember any special privillegies that I received from my parents. maybe with troubled children there is a need for that, i do not know. i truly never used any of that. I bought stuff when she needed it and we could afford it.

for example, I do not believe in taking books away or adding extra books, kids should read as many books as they can, no matter if they were being good or bad. I just do not agree with what most people described here.

i absolutelly do not believe in rewarding for good report card either. DD did fine in school and her reward was to have satisfication and pride in herself and get to a good college. and if you have two kids, one does poorly, the other well, would you reward one and punish the other one. at some point my brother did poorly in school, I would be very emabrassed to get money and he would get nothing. pretty bad. Does not fly with me.

I am kind of easy going and laid back about a lot of stuff, it works for me and works for everyone in our family. Of course if i would have a very difficult child i would have to use what you guys are using, don't know...

I agree with TOS that this is sounds foreign to me as well. But i am not saying I am right, it just works for all of us and we all are OK wiht the result. Can we just agree that there are many different ways of parenting? let's agree to disagree.

TOS and CEPH....

I reward my kids all the time for good grades.... not just buying them things or giving them money but spending extra time with them.... As a matter of fact my oldest 19 in college just called my yesterday and told me that she got a 104% on her bio exam... I sent her a text message telling her how proud I was of her and to keep up the good work... Kids like to know that they can get a lil something extra for doing their best JUST like you would if you were doing a great job at work.. what if your boss said great job but no bonus...... for all of your hard work....

Praising someone , and acknowledging their accomplishment, isnt quite the same as offering a monetary reward in advance, for every "a" they bring home.

I think its very important to encourage people of all ages by commenting on the good things that they do. I Think that way too often we focus on the bad things and ignore the good things. Psychologists recommend a five to one ration...five positive notices for one negative. Most parents fail to do that.

THe reason I do not give monetary things for a good report card is simple. I cant set the standard in advance without humiliating the child who doesnt get grades at the same level. Its not about the A, or B, or D. Its about whether or not the kid tried, whether or not they put their own effort into it, and whether they stuck to it. REwarding for an A means nothing. When I was a student, I dont think I ever got less than an A in anything, except perhaps art. I was an exceptional student. My brother was lucky to scrape by with a C. My grandparents rewarded by purchasing things for me when I would get my report, and then admonishing my brother, see, Kathline got a new tape player because she did great on her report card. My brother resented the hell out of that, because firstly, I didnt have to work for those "a" grades; they came naturally, and b) he had to sweat just to get a c grade. My accomplishments were bragging material, his were an embarassment. IT was unfair,and damaging to my brother in the long run. Heck, it was even damaging to me, since I got rewarded for something that cost me very little work.

Which is why I dont reward for report cards in my home, although no one could ever accuse me of not being positive with my kids. THe negatives in our household are extremely rare.

Grades and work accomplishments are not equivalent. Grades are merely an indication of your degree of mastery of the subject matter. A work accomplishment is just that - and accomplishment that benefits someone else, often your employer. It is perfectly appropriate to pay someone a bonus when they improve a procedure and save their employer $100,000. When you get an A, you haven't actually produced anything that will be of particular benefit to anyone other than yourself - the only exception I can think of might be a PhD thesis, and nobody expects their mother to pay them $10 if they publish a good thesis!

"Grades are merely an indication of your degree of mastery of the subject matter."

I could be wrong, but I've always thought grades were an indication of effort. I mean, you can 'master' a subject but if you don't do the homework or classroom participation that is a part of the grade, then you will probably get a failing or low grade. If a grade is merely and indication of your degree of mastery of the subject matter, one could just skip all the classes, reports, assignments, etc. and take a test to determine their mastery of the subject matter. Am I wrong?

Yes, that is what the CLEP exams are for.

Especially at the upper levels, "homework" and class participation are less and less likely to be considered in your grade. The majority of mathematics professors I have known, for instance, do not collect homework assignments. My child's math teacher in 10th grade did not collect homework, for that matter. Class participation is irrelevant in lecture classes of a couple of hundred students, and at most a minor factor in a lot of classes in high school and before, not to mention that participating in class discussion is easy for some people and very difficult for a child who is shy. Even in classes where homework is graded, or where reports are required, as Kathline pointed out some students can breeze through with little effort while others struggle for a "C." One of my kids had a friend in college who could start the research for a ten page paper at 8:00 at night, have the paper done by the next morning, and get an "A." Other students struggle for hours to get their thoughts on paper. What matters is the end result - you don't get a better grade because you spent 2 hours on an assignment and your smarter or more verbal classmate completed it in half the time while watching tv.

oh com'n grades are so very often not indication of effort but often are just indication of intellectual capabilities that someone else might not possess. For DD to have B- in calculus was a huge effort but to have A in English was nothing. I didn't think i had to reward her for the fact that she was born wiht good language abilities. Like TOS said DD could sit down in the evening and be done with A level college paper in few hours (plus she types fast. However to produce acceptable result in any math classes she had to sweat pretty hard and even then her grade would be around B-/C. Why should someone get a gift or money because he got A in caculus while DD barely managed B-/C? then should we punish those kids cannot write the way DD can? This makes no sense.

I agree, grades are often more an indication of ability. I tell my DD its not fair that others may be able to get grades with less effort. For her, to get a B in math is harder than others. On the other hand, English and history comes easier. All children are different. Some schools are more demanding. A big complaint in my state had been that some intercity schools pass and graduate students for minimal achievement, and students with a good atittude get As and Bs. Increased exit tests, applicable to most studens, are changing that. To all who complain about "teaching to the test", I think we needed more standards.

Not that I think it's right or wrong to pay kids for grades. I think sometimes parents have to find something that works or THEIR child. I don't think paying for grades works well, but it's really up to a parent to decide what they want to do with their kids. However, I thought the discussion of paying for grades was geared toward grade school/elementary aged kids. I didn't know we were discussing college kids working on their thesis... my bad.

I personally was talking about DD's high school grades not college. I certainly hope people don't pay their college kids for grades. That would be too funny.

As about elementary age kids their grades depend on their abilities even more than older students. I think paying young children for grades is even more unacceptable than older ones.