KKNY: I think it really depends upon each situation - how the stepmother feels for her stepchildren and how the stepchildren feel for their stepmother.

OH sweet God! She did not say that BK's should get better treatment than SK's she said:

IT IS ONLY NATURAL TO CARE FOR YOUR OWN BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN MORE!!!

No they're not our children, you've made that abundantly clear. However, just like you reserve the right to your lofty opinions, we reserve the right to call these children that we raise, ours. It's all a matter of opinion.

lol is DD supposed to start calling dad's new wife "mom"? DD is 20, future SM is 27. they are very friendly with each other, but why on earth would she call DD "my daughter"? It would be just plain stupid. And how does DD suppose to call her former SM? Exmommy? hahah

ceph, your BF's exGF is not in his life anymore and she probably didn't feel it was a life long relationship so she didn't form attachements. It is difficult for children to form these attachements and then watch adults dissapear. You have to think what is the best for the children. You shouldn't bring every person you date to your children's life, it is not good for them.

Lonepiper wrote: "I think it really depends upon each situation - how the stepmother feels for her stepchildren and how the stepchildren feel for their stepmother."

I think this is true, and even as an SD I can understand that there are some natural differences and that it's the truly rare SP who's able to love their SK's like their own (thankfully I've had this from my SF, if not my SM). It is what it is, but this makes the feelings an SP has towards SKs (and vice-versa, to be fair) prone to being a lot more conditional ---and even capricious, with some people--- which has many pitfalls and difficulties. Maybe it can't be changed, but if it's at least recognized as a tendency which can very quickly lead to unfair standards or escalated conflicts, maybe some of these can be kept under better control. In other words, what I guess I'm saying is that the discrepancy might be unavoidably "natural", but people should be careful that it doesn't become license to exaggerate the difference even more. Astigmatism in one eye is "natural" too, but we get glasses to help balance our vision so both eyes are in harmony.

(I gathered that kkny and Imamommy both agree on these points too.)

This is from Ima,

"kkny
IT IS ONLY NATURAL TO CARE FOR YOUR OWN BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN MORE!!! There, I admit it. But who is saying the SK's have to buy their own anything, don't they have biological parents? The sooner you realize that it's not the SM's responsibility to do for the SK's the same, the better off everyone here will be."

Frankly, I do accept that SM is not mom, etc. I see conflict when child is over at Dads, SM doesnt treat them the same, Dad tries to compensate, mom is upset, etc.

I think that people can have peaceful relationship but call things the way they are. I personally have a problem when SMs talk about doing this and that more than moms and call kids their own etc and yet there is so much resentement and drama in the family. I'd rather no one calls DD her daughter or tries to be her mom, but keep her away from drama. I think it is nice when SMs do so much but if it comes with so much resentment and conflict it effects children badly and nobody benefits from it.

FD, I was totally confused by your post because it had nothing to do with my post about not wanting to be called "Auntie"... But then I realized you were replying to what I said back in November.

And no, BF's last GF wasn't with him for the long haul, but they were together for about two years. In two years, obviously she spent time with A__, but she wasn't interested in really being close with him. When they broke up, A__ asked about her once or twice in the first few weeks, but never asked to see her. She was always nice to him and respectful of BF's relationship with him, which was all that BF asked of me when we got together too.
The difference is that I'm with BF for good. We have a long future together, and that future includes A__ (and by extension, BM too), so I want to foster a strong relationship between A__ and I.

As for the crazy cookie girl, she never met A__.

FD said "I personally have a problem when SMs talk about doing this and that more than moms and call kids their own etc and yet there is so much resentement and drama in the family."

I would definitely agree with that, FD.
If your stepfamily dynamic is rocky and full of resentment and drama, or if the SP and SC aren't very close, then I think using familial terms can be treacherous and exacerbate the drama.
If your stepfamily dynamic is peaceful and everyone thinks of one another as family, then I see no problem with "my" kids or calling SM "Mom" (provided BM is OK with that)

This actually came up a few weeks back with A__... During another discussion about how he calls me "Auntie", I asked "What would you call me if Dad and I got married?"
"I would call you Mom"
"But you've already got a mom. What would you call her if you called me Mom?"
And he said her first and last names with great definition "JANE DOE!"
"No, I don't think she'd like that very much. I think you'd better stick with calling her Mom and calling me Ceph" (except obviously I used my name)
"Well, maybe I could call you CephMom?"
"I think that would probably be OK if that's what you would like"

And since then he's really slowed down on the "Auntie" thing... it still slips out sometimes, but I think he's probably down to "Auntie" 40% of the time and just using my name 60% of the time. So yay!

WHOA KKNY... don't quote just a portion and misinterpret it. I also went on to ask you if you marry someone with children, would you feel the same as you do for your DD? I don't think you would. That doesn't mean we treat them differently because we feel differently. What you seem to imply with "I see conflict when child is over at Dads, SM doesnt treat them the same, Dad tries to compensate, mom is upset, etc." is that SM's don't treat the kids the same so the mom is upset and you are wrong on a couple of levels.

First, what is the definition of 'same'. The same way her mom treats her? I get calls from BM because SD complains I don't let her drink soda pop or watch certain tv shows/movies which I feel are inappropriate, or feed her oatmeal, or put peanut butter & jelly sandwiches in her lunch, or put turtleneck shirts on her when it's cold, or make her wear a coat outside, etc. Her mom lets her stay up as late as she wants, doesn't make her take a shower, doesn't make her brush her teeth, lets her eat whatever and however much she wants, etc. So, yes I treat her different than her mom. So what? Sometimes SD feels I'm being mean because I don't let her do what she wants all the time. If I did, our house would be as chaotic as BM's house. DH has gotten calls in the past to 'come get your daughter, I can't handle her anymore'. We don't have that problem. Obviously, BM and DH/I have different parenting styles. Are we supposed to change our rules and regulations to match BM so we are the 'same'?

Or, are you talking about a SM treating my kids different than SK's? I let my kids stay up late, SD has a bedtime. I let my kids drink soda, SD can't. I let my kids watch just about anything they want, I monitor SD's. Well, my kids are 17, 18, & 21. When they were 8, they didn't get to do those things.

There is no dispute that there are step parents out there that treat their kids as if they can do no wrong and treat the step kids like everything that goes wrong is their fault. But, not all are that way and it's unfair for you to categorize them all in one basket. I think lonepiper is very correct that it depends on how everyone views the situation and how they each feel for each other. Sometimes positive feelings are not reciprocated, by either the child or the adult. That's unfortunate. and in a situation where an adult child gets a new step parent, it's just not the same as a young child so the comparison is irrelevant. and even in situations where there is resentment, the adults can still love the child. Moms & Dads that hate each other, still love their child. Regardless of how I feel about BM, I can still have separate feelings for SD.

I have a problem with BM's who don't take responsibility for their child unless it makes them look good.

As for drama in families, that's normal with kids in the home. My son and I have drama. I have drama with my parents and they live 4 hours away. It's part of being a family and being human to have drama in your life, so what makes a step-family so different? Who says we resent the kids? KKNY? TOS? Well I can tell you what their opinion of that means to me and I'm sure others, absolutely nothing. What I personally resent, is that my SD's bm dropped her off because she didn't want to "bother" with her anymore and ran off to get drunk, do more drugs, and almost end up in jail a few times. That I resent. She is in her mid-30's and she still "parties" like a college kid.

I didn't try to be SD's mom, I told her in the beginning, I'm not your mom and I won't try to be your mom, but I will be your friend and I'll tell you when I'm uncomfortable with something and I hope you do the same with me, I'll respect you and expect the same in return. She had just turned 13 when I met her and she's lived with us for almost a year now and started calling me mom about two months ago. When DH and I run into people we know, we don't introduce the kids as, his and mine, we just say "These are our children, J___ and D___. Kids, this is such and such."

The first time SD called me mom I asked if I'd heard her right, and she goes "Yep." and didn't say another thing, just acted like it was no big occurance. The second time she was introducing me to one of her friends and goes "This is my mom, Nina, just call her mom, everyone else does." Since then she's not called me by my first name at all, just mom even when she's mad. She's even done it in front of her BM who thinks it's "cute" and SD refers to us as Mom 1 and Mom 2.

So tell me. Should I consider her mine since she calls me mom? I treat her as mine. I buy her clothes like she was mine. I stick money in her college fund as if she were mine. Am I morally out of line for treating this child well, loving her, and giving her a chance to do something better than sliding down a pole in a g-string and pastees?
Is Ima out of line for treating her SD well and giving her the princess birthday party she wants? Is justnotmartha out of line for giving her SD a birthday party she'll remember for a lifetime?

Remember, we married our SK's fathers, thus making them our husbands. So in marrying our now husbands, we made his children OURS too in accepting them as part of the package when we married him.

as much as I am in support of having good relationship between stepparents and stepchildren i don't see under what circumstances DD at any age would call any other woman "mom". she just wouldn't.
i would never call any other woman mom, only my mom. this makes no sense...even momName.

but then you have a different situation... you are a good mom.. you and your dd have a great relationship ... and you didnt just drop her off to go off and party and do whatever leaving her searching for something more.

Don't some people call their in-laws mom and dad??

well, fine... that's your DD. She's a grown child. If my dad married again, I would not call my new step mom 'mom'. It's NOT the same!

When my kids were school aged, all the neighbor kids came over and I was 'mom' to all of them. Their real mom's didn't call me up and have a problem with it. Maybe if I were sleeping with their ex husbands and they were angry about that, then they might have seen a problem with it. But I was just the 'mom' that threw cool parties and watched their kids (they'd come swimming at our house) so their real mom got a break for an afternoon here & there. (and yes, I see a difference in that 'mom' reference and in a step family) But, in relationships, whatever the people in the relationship want to call each other is fine. It's usually someone else that is insecure or jealous that has a problem with it. and not all step parents stay out of the child's life after a divorce from their bio parent. I'm sure it happens more often than not, but I'm also sure that some step parents still maintain a relationship if they were close to the child. In fact, I've seen a few episodes of Judge Judy where former step parents continued to see their step children. In one case that stands out in my memory, the former step father was suing his ex-wife, the bio mom because she didn't contribute to her son's living expenses after she left her son with his former step father for several months while she was trying to get her life together. She was counter suing him for the bedroom furniture the step father had bought for the son to use while he lived with him. The step father was in tears because once the bio mom got her life in order enough to take her son back, she cut the former step father off from the step son altogether. She was willing to use him to take care of her son when it was convenient for her, but she didn't care about her son's attachment to his step father or the step father's attachment to her son. The case wasn't really about the money, it was more about her taking the son away. He should have called Dr. Phil... He got the money and BM got a tongue lashing that she's very selfish if she is depriving her son of the only father he has ever known. BM didn't seem to care.

DD is grown now, she was not always grown. she was a kid at some point and I and X were divorced since she was 4.

this is not about anyone having any problem with anything. I would not care how DD would call anyone, but she WOULDN'T call anyone mom and dad.

Oh, Ima, I almost fell out of my chair laughing at this "Maybe if I were sleeping with their ex husbands and they were angry about that, then they might have seen a problem with it. "

Hahaha, I'm still cracking up!

you might not resent the kids but you resent the fact that you have to do so much for them and moms don't pitch in or your DHs pile it all on you. DD's dad didn't nearly do what he would have to do as a father, by my standards he didn't. but i do not resent doing more for our kid, he is her dad and he is who he is. at least when he was with her he was actually the one doing the parenting not his wife. you SK's BMs might be bad moms by your standards but they are who they are.

iammommy, X was with his exwife since DD was 9, and was for 5 years with another woman before that. We didn't just get divorced. We were divorced for 16 years.

Fine, I agree - I don't call anyone by the name of "mom" (except for my mom, LOL!!!). I never put too much thought into it, but to me it's a title only reserved for my mother.

I have a great relationship with my stepdaughters. My husband has full custody and both girls consider me a parental figure. They call me by my first name. We've talked about it and we agree that it would seem awkward for them to refer to me as "mom." We are very secure in our relationship and we don't really care what we call each other ("hey you" works well too! LOL!!). But again, depends upon everyones unique situation.

Do I call them my kids? When I make formal introductions I introduce them as my stepdaughters, however, when I think about them I make no distinction. I love them and I think of them as mine. There is no blood bond but daily interaction and truly enjoying each others company has solidified our relationship - I guess I would call it a heart bond!!!!

DD continues seeing and talking to former SM (when she is in the area which is not often anymore) but she is not her mother even if she knws her for 11 years. DD also sees her grandparents but they aren't parents either. DD's dad might be a jerk big time by somebody's standards but he still is her dad. i don't understand how being less than a perfect parents disqualifies you or make somebody else a parent. i disagree.

As about drama. No, there doesn't have to be drama. there often is, but it doesn't mean there has to be. many divorced families keep drama to a minimum or eliminate it completely.

"i don't understand how being less than a perfect parents disqualifies you or make somebody else a parent."

I disagree with this though. My stepdaughters' mom will always and forever be their mom, but I guess my definition of a parent is someone who is involved in the child's life. If you look up parent in the dictionary, it clearly says that a parent is a "mom" or a "dad." But I would NEVER call the man who fathered me and has only seen me once in his life a "parent."

Amen!!! lonepiper.

and I agree with your definition of someone involved. A child can have more than one mom or dad. They can only have one biological mom and dad, but they can have many 'parents' that love and care for them. If a step mom or step dad is a 'parent' to them, it doesn't mean that their biological parent isn't a parent to them anymore. But, being biologically related doesn't make you a parent either.

From Ima

kkny
IT IS ONLY NATURAL TO CARE FOR YOUR OWN BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN MORE!!! There, I admit it. . . . ? The sooner you realize that it's not the SM's responsibility to do for the SK's the same, the better off everyone here will be

That is why SMs are not Moms, from Imas mouth.

kkny said "It seems to me that many SMs here have said, stepchildren have to buy their own cars, pay for their own college etc.

I think it is only natural to care for your own bioligical children more. I think when a SM admits that, and deals with it, everyone is better off"

and I said "kkny IT IS ONLY NATURAL TO CARE FOR YOUR OWN BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN MORE!!! There, I admit it. But who is saying the SK's have to buy their own anything, don't they have biological parents? The sooner you realize that it's not the SM's responsibility to do for the SK's the same, the better off everyone here will be. However, many of us SM's DO more for our SK's than some of their own biological parents. I know that I buy my SD's clothes and right now, I'm planning her birthday party (and paying for ALL of it). My DH would be okay with taking her out to dinner or chuck e cheese. She wants a princess party and fortunately, I can afford it and wanted to do something fun for her this year, since last year her mom caused such a scene. Her mom hasn't offered a dime nor any help in planning, yet she's already said she's going to be there with her BF, his kids and her BF's parents.(DH and her agreed to do separate parties after her last one, but like always, she invited herself through her DD and I'm not about to ruin her birthday like her mom did last year)

Are you just looking for an opening to criticize that SM's have different standards for their own kids than SK's? Well, duh!!! Do you think if you got married to someone that has kids, that you would feel exactly the same for his kids than your own? I know you wouldn't. That doesn't mean that you would be mean or unfair to them... or would you? My SD is 8. I can't say for at least another 8-10 years if I would help her get her first car. and how do you know I didn't have two or three times the amount of the car loan in the bank? You don't know my financial situation or my plans for retirement, do you?"

Don't you feel like a broken record, quoting the same one sentence in my statement that supports your point of view? In general, SM's don't have to be responsible. In some situations, they end up taking on that responsibility and form a relationship that is more parent/child than others. If a step parent or step child want to have a relationship, what difference does it make to anyone else? There were teachers in high school that I felt closer to than my mom and I lived with my mom every day. Yet, if she had known I felt that way, she would have been angry and hurt. She was openly hateful of my step mom and that kept me from getting very close to my step mom. I think it is sad for a parent to put their own feelings before what's best for their children. Having the greatest amount of people that care for your child is what's best for them.

Yes, I want the greatest amount of people to care about my child, including teachers, nannies, etc. But I dont want caretakers to masquerade as "moms", and then let them think it is the childs fault when they are not treated equally.

iamommy, your SD is as much her mom's responsibility as her dad's. Her dad has custody, not you. Because he delegates his responsibility to you and because you are a decent woman you end up helping him, but mom didn't leave kid on a street. Your SD lives with her dad. If SD would live with mom and see dad on the weekends would you call your DH nonexistant and abandoning father? Probably not.

lonepiper, yes, somebody whom you saw once is probably not a parent, but what most SMs decsribe is EOW or similar arrangement. It is not ideal but can be hardly called nonexistant parent.

yes, SKs are not SM's responsibility but parental responsibility. All of your SKs live with at least one of their parents.

Every situation is different depending on how custody is divided with each bioparent, if the one of the parent is a substance abuser etc.etc..If the child has been abused or has been poisoned by one parent of the other by interfering.
I dotn like the fact that people on this site seem to "label' SM's as masqueraders or wannabees. Depends on the situation. I had a SM who was a big FAKER!!! showed one face to my father and then to me it was totally different. THankfully my father dumped her! aNd got a SM who did care for me. Did she love me the way she loved her kids. No. But she cared and it showed and that to me was important.
I will never love my skids the way my husband or his ex wife does. Its their kids. They come EOW , so i do not have a role in raising them. They used to bring homeowrk but biomom stopped that due to jealousy. My SD got higher grades on projects that i helped her on. ITs understandable, i have college and university degree. Her biomom has a high school leaving certif. So yes, i do have a higher education i help when they wanted help. She took it as me stepping over my boundaries. THough i never put her down, never spoke negative about her and never told her that i had 2 degrees. I will not put someone down because they have a lower education from me.
Well when a child, any child asks me for help with their homework, i oblige. What am i suppose to do, tell them no, i dont want to do that, go ask your father. ? He didn't have a clue what to do with homework.
I think there are cases where woman masquerade as 'moms' but dont mistake the REAL ones who care. The real caregivers who are entitled to that MOM title. There are many of us who have adopted and love our children equally. My case is not equal because physically the biomom has them 90% of the time. So i cannot get to interact with them everyday. But if i did, why shouldn't i have that title? Would i not cloth them the same, pay for their food, cook for them, help with homework, guide them in life? My SM did that for me and i call her MOM! Cause she is my MOM!

Organic,

YOu can call whomever whatever you want. That is your perogivative as an adult.

it can be both at the same time: you are either a mom and care about SKs excatly the same as about your own kids or you are a stepmom and logically care about your kids more. It cannot be both.

I can understand that most non-custodial SP's are not automatically going to feel the same unconditional day-in/day-out love that a bio-parent (or, I should say, a GOOD bio-parent) would for the child. (I would hope custodial SP's would develop it, though...) I never expected such from my Dad's wife. I had a custodial mom already who I was (and am still) very close with, and thankfully one problem we never had in my extended family was SM trying to "play mom"! (LOL, not by a longshot...) Really, I just expected SM to be civil and have consideration for the relationship between my Dad and I and the limited time we ever had together. (This NEVER meant, on my end, any insistence that she leave us alone, just that she be decent, refrain from insulting me and raising b.s., especially on my visits.)

The problem isn't so much when non-custodial SP's *themselves* don't feel a connection/responsibility for the SK's... It's when they can't distinguish that philosophy applying to *just them* as distinct from the much more commited & involved connection, love and responsibility that their spouse/partner has for the kids (who are that partner's flesh-and-blood). Too often, it seems like the non-commital attitude an SP has (which is perfectly fine on its own) comes to be expected of their partner as well. Sounds screwed-up when phrased this way, but it happens all the time. Every time an 'either-kids-or-me' ultimatum is made; every time SP doesn't think partner should pay for something for SK that in an intact family would be likely paid for without conflict; every time the phrase "why can't SK ask his/her ***custodial parent*** for so-and-so?"; every time the doctrine of "tough love" is mis-applied... Not saying that the SP in this sort of scenario always *consciously* wants the partner to treat their own kid like an SK... just that it sometimes ends up happening by association.

These examples I give are not necessarily directed at anyone on here ( I see a lot of people here trying hard to face issues and find solutions, I really do ). Just kind of "worst case scenarios" that end up happening to people who really don't care...

Who know who's opinion matters on whether a step mom is qualified to be a *mom*? There is only one person, and all of your arguements back and forth about what qualifies a woman a mom don't mean squat.

IT'S ABOUT THE CHILD, people. COME ON! If my SD, or Ceph's A__ or hecall's SD want to call us mom that is their choice and their choice alone. Just as none of us should influence them to do so we shouldn't force them not to. I spent a year teling my SD not to call me mom because her mom would feak out, and when she finally burst into tears because I didn't want to be her mom I said enough is enough. I'm not going to deny this child the security or love or whatever she feels from calling me mom because it upsets another adult. Her mother is an adult, and if she could put her daughter's interests before her own she would see that this term, this 3 letter word, is just that. It isn't worth the pain of a child to insure it is reserved for only one person.

And for the record, I call my mother-in-law mom, in front of MY mom, who is my very best friend. She thinks it is wonderful that I am that comfortable and connected to my husband's mother. THAT is the definition of a true, I-put-my-child-first MOM.

I also call my step father DAD and my bio-father "sperm donor."

Strike me down!

finedreams, I never said my SD's mom was non existent.. where did you get THAT? I have said repeatedly that she ABANDONED her and she DID. The amount of time she spends with her mother is irrelevant to how she FEELS. She FEELS her mom left her for the BF. Maybe if her mom hadn't moved three hours away to live with BF and they still had the same arrangement they do now, DH having physical & she visits mom, then SD might not feel her mom abandoned her. And yes, her mom is still responsible for her.. it would be nice if she'd actually take responsibility for her.

how did she abandon her when she actually is with her every weekend? X does not see DD that often, can't- geographically impossible, but I would never say he abandoned her.

so if mom would move away and take DD with her, then her dad would see her only on the weekends and then mom would be talking that your DH ABANDONED the kid. In divorced families children often end up living with one parent and visiting the other. It is not always doable to have exactly 50/50 but then even if it is possible you would be saying BM abandoned the kid for the whole week.

What do you mean by visiting? Isn't SD visiting mom now?

I think by abandoned, Ima is saying that BM put SD to the side for a man after she'd spent months in court trying to prevent Ima's DH from getting custody only to sign her over completely a few weeks after that. SD feels that her mom abandoned her after telling her that she'd never let her go.

Did I get that right Ima?

3 hours away, you are talking like she moved to the moon. kid is with mom on the weekends and with stepmother during the week. it really depends how you look at it. one might argue about who really abandoned the kid.

From what I gather, and correct me if I'm wrong, in IMA's situation BM used to have custody of SD, and then chose to give custody to dad and only have visits with SD so that she could be with BF, and I also gather that she's not too great about returning SD's calls and things of that nature.

I know that's not complete abandonment, but it seems to me that any child would probably feel rejected or somewhat abandoned by such actions. I know it would devastate my SD if her mother did that or my own daughter if I chose to do such a thing.

abandoning a child is a rather harsh statement. i wouldn't call children who do not live with their parents "abandoned". and in fact some children who do live with their parents still feel abandoned emotionally.

oh my, what about father who only visit on the weekends or EOW? those of you whose DHs are not CP and have kids EOW I don't hear you saying that your husbands abandoned their children. Com'n. Double standard again.

My step kids call me mom. My kids call my husband Dad.

My SK's bmom phoned up husband, extremely upset that the kids call me mom ( screaming on the phone actually). She had only found out because, while SD was here, she was on the phone with her mom, and had said " mom, can i have a pencil" to me, and her bm overheard her. I could hear her screaming at SD on the phone, "dont you call that woman mother, she isnt your mother" she was very angry. Husband calmly pointed out to the ex that the kids chose to call me that, that we hadnt encouraged it, but we werent going to forbid it. THen he pointed out that the kids call her husband dad, in fact they were ordered to by bm. Bm has told the kids that she and her husband are their mom and dad and we are to be addressed by our first names :)) My step son, when he was younger, would show up at our house, calling my husband, his birth father, by his first name. My husband never reacted, even though I knew it must have bothered him somewhat. He figured there were more important things that worrying about what someone is told to call someone else.

ITs amazing that bm cant see the paradox...she insists on the kids calling their stepfather dad, she insists on her husbands children calling her mom, but she gets upset when her birth children call their stepparent mom. Its enough to make me dizzy.

As for me, when my stepdaughter asked what she should call me...I just smiled and said..Attila the hun, tilly for short :)

Now , whenever her mom gets on her a**, she just smiles at me and calls me tilly mom. Its our own private joke.

If you are 8 years old your mom says "I'll never let you go" ... battles in court over it....

Three weeks later mom meets this new guy ... now you go and live with dad no questions asked, no arguing, its a done deal.

In the child's eyes mom left me to go be with some guy after she told me she would never let me live with my dad now I am living with my dad and my mom moved 3 hours away .... its not like it used to be when I lived with mom I could call dad and hang out with him for a few hours and return home to mom .... mom is too far away for me to see her when ever I want it has to be on a schedule.

If dad had 50/50 custody and said oh I met a girl I am moving 3 hours away that would be abandonment. I'll see you on the weekend..

Finedreams, I assure you I have no double standards.

My DH was never married to SD's BM, which means in our state that he has NO legal rights until they are established in court. She left...with child. Not him. He had no legal right to go and take SD.

We met shortly after his breakup with BM, and he was in the process of filing for visitation, and he went downtown to file for child support on BM's behalf...something he said they told him was unheard of. They had never had a father down there before saying, "I have a child, and I want to pay support. How do I do that?"

DH has never missed a visit, taken extra time whenever he can, gone to all school functions, conferences, etc. Asks for SD to come over all the time when it's not his "visitation". BM often refuses these "extra" visits...unless, of course, they're convenient for her. She feels he sees his daughter plenty and says that she doesn't get to see her enough.

Long story short, DH just got a new custody order last week, and it is much more than EOW. He has always been there for her, and it is simply not a double standard. He has never put himself...or anyone else...above her, and he would love for her to be in our home 100% of the time, but circumstances warrant settling for something more like 40%.

Hecalls and Cawfe are correct, oh my, she didn't have full custody, they had 50/50 but she spent six months fighting for full custody just before she left.

I think cawfe summed it up best. She won't take or return SD's calls, except when it's convenient for 'her'. She has called after SD is asleep, then says we're 'keeping her baby from her' because DH won't wake up SD to talk. Whenever she has SD with her, all she talks about is her 'butterfly' wedding that she's planning with BF and they are all lovey dovey so SD ends up feeling like she's not so important to her mom. Mom left and forgot about me. SD has told DH that she feels BF stole her mom.

It was the way in which it was done. She sent SD on her regular week to DH and moved during the week while we had SD. Then, the day she was supposed to get SD back, she tells DH 'I can't take her, I've moved. I met Mr. Wonderful and we're getting married. Can you tell DD?' He said 'you tell her yourself' so they agreed that BM would tell her and DH would be there. BM sits down both her girls and tells them, not only is she moving three hours away and leaving SD with dad, but she also tells them that she's marrying this guy (whom they have known for two weeks) and another significant thing to note here, she had a different BF just a month earlier that she told SD she was getting married to, but she went on a trip out of state and she broke up with him while she was gone, came back and met this new potential husband. I think any 8 & 12 year old would be confused, upset and feel abandoned. That is the word her counselor has used many times.

FD, you may feel that because she see's her mom, she isn't abandoned and apparently you won't see things through the eyes of a child that was left for a BF. That's YOUR problem but I think everyone else understands how heartbreaking it must be for this child.

not to mention that as cawfe put it, SD was going to school a few blocks from BM's house and sometimes during DH's week, BM would go see her at school or pick her up after school if she wanted to do things with her. She also was taking tae kwon do classes with her mom so she saw her on DH's weeks when I took her to those classes. All of that ended and she's limited to seeing her on weekends. Even then, now she has to share mom with new BF and sometimes his three kids. She also sees that her sister was left at Grandma's house and hardly visits mom at all, so she doesn't get to see her sister much anymore. She's lost quite a bit and FD, I think you are pretty insensitive about it, just to try and make me look like I'm unreasonable. Personally, I'd prefer BM to fall off the face of the earth than see her destroy her daughter this way. But, her daughter loves her and she's the one destroying that, not me or DH. I think it's very sad for her to be so blind as to how she's hurting her child.

IMA, even 50/50 to weekends only and a BM that won't return calls is a big jump, and I'm sure your SD does feel abandoned by her BM, and what a child feels is their truth, even if it's not the truth of the adults involved. I sincerely hope BM wises up and thinks about your SD's feelings more than her own.

So sad.

so do you consider men who see children on the weekends and live 3 hours away 'abandoning" their kids? or this standard is only for women who are not CPs?

fine, I consider TOS husband as abandoning his kids. He chose his wife over seeing his kids regularly. I'm sure his kids feel abandoned. I also think that if kkny's daughter feels her dad has abandoned her if he doesn't see her much. It all depends on how the child feels, not so much about how much time they spend. If your daughter is comfortable with her time she sees her dad, then she won't feel abandoned. I'm sure at times in her life, she's felt he did abandon her when he ran off with TOW or maybe he was a better father and made sure she didn't feel he abandoned her. I don't know how your daughter feels about it, I only know how my SD feels. Like I said, it's the WAY she did it. She dropped a bomb on them and they were crushed. She could have taken some time to break it to them gently, let them get used to the idea of her moving but the way she did it, moving BEFORE she told them (or us) and acting like a schoolgirl in love while ignoring her primary responsibility (her children), then you can keep defending it. I think there are lots of NCP's that live further away and no, I don't think they all abandon their kids. If they cut off contact or limit contact on purpose for their jobs or new spouse or their own selfish interests, then YES they have abandoned. BM did not cut off all contact but she limits it regardless of how her daughters feel. She decided to leave and didn't give a damn how it affected them. I would think that if she cared at all, she'd at least call regularly to let her daughter know she loves her and is thinking about her. Her daughter sits here wondering if mom has forgotten her. And I'm sure there are many children of father's that have left that feel the same way. It's sad when parents of any gender are that selfish.

I think it's really situational.

If I wanted to move our family 3 hours away from SD, my husband would absolutely forbid it!! If SD's BM wanted to move far away, I'm quite certain my DH would be in court fighting for custody.

If it's an unavoidable situation and the parent moving and switching to EOW spent considerable amounts of time with the child before, I think much extra effort would have to go into helping the child not to feel abandoned, whether it's the mom or the dad.

Mom or dad, if it's always been EOW, the child is probably already adjusted, so no, it's not abandonment, but that's not the situation in this case.

Personally, I think it's sad when parents won't make sacrifices for their children. I once had a little girl in my daycare class whose parents lived in different states, and she literally would live with one parent for a school year and the other for the next. It was heartbreaking. And although her father may have loved her very much, she definitely felt like he abandoned her to have a new family with his new wife, and I could tell her SM wasn't all that fond of her and that she thought her bio daughter walked on water.

It's less about the amount of time spent than it is how the situation is dealt with, and it's sad that some people just can't put their children first.

Fine if he was in a set visitation 50/50 until he met his GF and 2 weeks after meeting her decides to moves 3 hours away then make it only on weekends to see his daughter. His daughter would feel abandoned .... I have even heard of single parents whose only child goes off to college away from them feel abandoned by their children.

Guess its just how you (adult or child) look at the circumstances of your situation.

I know my SC felt abandoned by their mother when she took a job working second shift and she was unavailable to talk to them at night and they never got to see her on weekends... and was just too tired to pick them up and spend time with them (just to clarify they do not anymore mom is no longer working at that job)They would say she likes that job better than us, If mommy didn't have to pay support she wouldn't have to work, and she could be with us. Mommy never answers the phone when she's at work I hate her job.... Did she abandon them? NO but in their minds she did.